Eldar Rumour Titbits

[jgebi]

this thread is still going...

[Mysterion]

Interesting. Maybe those bonuses could be Warlock Powers? The Fleshbane would absolutely demolish Tyranids and Daemons including all their MC's. The Salvo one would be awesome with Avengers with a 24" range outgunning Guardsmen, lol.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

the salvo thing would be wicked

[Maxis Lithium]

Salvo seems more realistic. Flesh Bane gives them all 2+ to wound... Not bloody likely. I can see some sort of special character or special rule that MIGHT give some of your shuriken weapons fleshbane, but I can't see it on everything all the time.

[eldargal]

Fleshbane would be org asmically overpowered, so if either of them is accurate I'd expect it to be salvo. Unless they are really keens to turn eldar back into properly elite army like they used to be, with small numbers but very high destructive capacity. But I doubt it somehow.

Why would a weapon have poison and fleshbane though? Wounds on a 2+ then 4+? Makes no sense.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

Fleshbane would be org asmically overpowered, so if either of them is accurate I'd expect it to be salvo. Unless they are really keens to turn eldar back into properly elite army like they used to be, with small numbers but very high destructive capacity. But I doubt it somehow.

Why would a weapon have poison and fleshbane though? Wounds on a 2+ then 4+? Makes no sense.

The only thing I can think of, and this is a stretch, is that you wound on a 2+, and if your STR equals or exceed your toughness, you reroll all failed wounds. That would be rediculous though, rerolling a 2+. As I said though, a stretch.

[Zachar]

Both of those list looks like pure wishlist to me

[Lost Vyper]

Yep, salvo seems more likely, but either one would be nice

[DrLove42]

Why would a weapon have poison and fleshbane though? Wounds on a 2+ then 4+? Makes no sense.

I was thinking that but reached the same conclusion ERW did above me. Seems a bit disgusting. DE players will be up in arms if we wound on a 2+ compared to their 4+

Poision (or Fleshbane) weapons seem to DE to be used, plus too disgustingly good.

Salvo could be interesting, but again I don't see it on normal guys. Maybe the new Bladestorm gives DA salvo, but i don't know.

The only realistic thing in the list is the new ranges. I hope they're true

[DarkLink]

Fleshbane would be awesome. Salvo is too limiting, you have to sit still to make good use of it and those guns all have too short of range and Eldar are too fragile for their infantry to really benefit. An effectively Heavy 6 Shuriken Cannon on vehicles would be pretty awesome, though.


But you know what the most annoying thing ever is? When a pretty reputable source posts some rumors, and some random person pops up and is like "durrrrr, wishlist, dur-du-durr".

[Puppies72]

No sign of any rumours regarding Harlequins anywhere?

[eldargal]

But you know what the most annoying thing ever is? When a pretty reputable source posts some rumors, and some random person pops up and is like "durrrrr, wishlist, dur-du-durr".
90% of rules rumours that come out before pre orders are up turn out to be false so while sometimes irritating when it is someones only post on the forum it isn't exactly unwarranted.

[Zachar]

But you know what the most annoying thing ever is? When a pretty reputable source posts some rumors, and some random person pops up and is like "durrrrr, wishlist, dur-du-durr".


I assume You meant me :) Well I have been around for some time, but the Eldar are my main and beloved army, so I decided to say what I think about it, it looks like daemon wishlist before the codex, the one where bloodthirster would regain lost wounds for each wound caused and bloodletters have 4-5 attacks with S6 on the charge.

Fleshbane- too overpowered not going to happen
Salvo- very highly unlikely 4 shots at 18" range from guardian would be devastating

I agree that the only thing that COULD be real about it is extended range, hopefully we see it real (oh and the shuricannon could be up to 36")


Oh and one more thing, if either of those WISHLISTS proves to be true I will be more then happy to post here how wrong I have been :)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I want more Shurikens!

[Autarch]

WOW. I think I definitley go with option a. However I'd be happy with option b simply because the shuriken catapult is so pathetic... Man imagine these weapons on jetbikes....

[Nickolay Naryzhnyy]

This is simply ridiculous. It's so ridiculous I couldn't resist finally posting here, although had been a reader for quite a while.

If the shuri-cannon shoots 6 times up to 36", what would ScatterLaser have to be? Mount that on warwalkers, and see opponents ragequit.
And that fleshbane variant is too insane to be true.

I'd put my money on that, if anything, we are only going to see those shooting ranges increase, with a slight point reduction for units that use shuriken weaponry.

[Defenestratus]

Color me skeptical on both of these.

First, Fleshbane on Shuriken weapons would be simply silly. Imagine every guy in your army holding at least an 18" ranged witchblade with 2 base attacks :P

Second, the salvo I find more believable, but it doesn't jive well with the Eldar way of war - bringing mobile firepower to the table. Lastly I believe salvo counts as firing a rapid fire weapon - something that Eldar have very few examples of since rapid fire became a mechanic. I can only think of 3rd ed warp spiders.

[Zachar]

If the shuri-cannon shoots 6 times up to 36", what would ScatterLaser have to be? Mount that on warwalkers, and see opponents ragequit.
.

Give him 48" range and the rest can stay the same, it would be an awesome weapon though :)

[Learn2Eel]

I highly doubt either of these are true. Fleshbane would be broken, and that doesn't even come close to mentioning how illogical it is when stood side-by-side with the Dark Eldar codex. Salvo wouldn't be as broken, but it still doesn't fit; it penalises mobility, despite Eldar being the quickest force in the fluff (perhaps barring Dark Eldar). My best guess? Wish-listing on both counts. Extend the range of all Shuriken weapons by six inches and that will fix so many issues people have with them currently.

[Mr Mystery]

I'm still expecting this months release not to be Eldar.

That would be funny!

[Defenestratus]

I'm still expecting this months release not to be Eldar.

That would be funny!

You're a cruel man.

[Chosen One]

Very cruel :D

I don't believe in both options. Why make the Catapult that better than the DE ones? And Salvo... seems not Eldar like...

Make Shuriken Catapults 24" as it was in 2nd Editon and add a Special Rule to the Avengers (maybe something like Rending without the bonus on Vehicles), that would be asolutely okay I think...

[Fortunato]

This is what I would like to see:

Shuriken Catapult 18" S:4 AP5 Assault 2, Shred

[Mr Mystery]

This is what I would like to see:

Shuriken Catapult 18" S:4 AP5 Assault 2, Shred

But why shred? On Dire Avengers? Sure, why not. But standard? It's discs of metal being propelled at you. A Boltshell doesn't have shread, and that puppy detonates inside you, which vastly increases the chance of even a wing shot proving fatal. And rather messy!

Other than that, bang on! Though I suspect we'll see them up to 24", simply because charge reaches have extended.

[Defenestratus]

This is what I would like to see:

Shuriken Catapult 18" S:4 AP5 Assault 2, Shred

That would be pretty broken.

What I'd like to see...

18" range, S:3 AP5 Assault 2 Rending

With the removal of Doom psychic power - it wouldn't be completely broken and it would nicely reflect the fluff of molecular-edged discs of death flying at the enemy and finding weak spots in armor. A base strength of 3, combined with a BS of 3 on a guardian means that it wouldn't do that much damage outside a handful of rends - which would probably equal out to be about the same probability against MEQ's.

My cat's math-hammer @BS3
20 shots against MEQ:
3.333 wounds inflicted, 2.222 wounds taken

Fortunate's Cat's math-hammer
20 shots against MEQ:
7.5 wounds inflicted, 2.5 wounds taken

Rumored Fleshbane option:
8.333 wounds inflicted, 2.778 wounds taken

Rumored "Rain of shuriken" option @ 20 shots (think moving guardians)
5 wounds inflicted, 1.667 wounds taken

Of course double it for the salvo option.

[Mr Mystery]

Potentially insulting/irritating question alert....but.....

Thematically, does it really make sense to have Grauniads be a popular choice? Because you know, that's predominantly what the Aspects are there for?

Purely a thematic question!

[Defenestratus]

Potentially insulting/irritating question alert....but.....

Thematically, does it really make sense to have Grauniads be a popular choice? Because you know, that's predominantly what the Aspects are there for?

Purely a thematic question!

Depends on who you talk to.

Certain craftworlds rely on guardians a lot more than others.

Guardians are the basic building block of the codex which is why I guess we always talk about using them. Plus a lot of us have tons of guardian models sitting around from the black guardian days - hoping to dust them off in the new book.

No doubt a bit of projection going on :P

[Ashwind]

This is what I would like to see:

Shuriken Catapult 18" S:4 AP5 Assault 2, Shred

This makes a lot of sense. Id make it shred with ap- though to better reflect the fluff. They are basicly throwing out thousands of monomoleculer wraithbone blades it would make sense for them to wound really well but get deflected by an armour save. Just my two cents.

[Ashwind]

And rending on a Scannon wouldn't be more broken than shred?

[Fortunato]

This makes a lot of sense. Id make it shred with ap- though to better reflect the fluff. They are basicly throwing out thousands of monomoleculer wraithbone blades it would make sense for them to wound really well but get deflected by an armour save. Just my two cents.

I agree with your thought. An AP of '-' or '6' would balance to prevent lighter armored armies from being decimated.

[Eldar_Atog]

I can't see option A happening either.

I could actually see option B being something Guardians can do. They are the reservists in the army. You don't want them charging the enemy's front lines. They hang back while the aspects take the fight to the front lines.

The salvo and fleshbane rules would be nice but I would be happy with just the range on the catapults being upped to 24.

Perhaps both rumors are correct. What if the Salvo and Fleshbane special rules were some of the random Warlock powers you could end up with?

[Defenestratus]

And rending on a Scannon wouldn't be more broken than shred?

If you drop the strength by 1, then I don't think it would be broken at all.


one volley of BS3, Str 5 AP 5 Rending Heavy 3 against MEQ
1 Wound inflicted, .5 wounds taken

As it stands right now - Str 6 AP 5:
1.25 wounds inflicted, 0.417 wounds taken

With Shred is:
1.458 wounds inflicted, 0.486 wounds taken

Now of course it makes it actually work against AV > 11 but ... its still not great.
per 3 shot volley @ BS3 against AV11 (Rhino)
0.25 hull points removed, 4.167% chance of destruction which is actually worse than it is now.

[Ashwind]

If you drop the strength by 1, then I don't think it would be broken at all.


one volley of BS3, Str 5 AP 5 Rending Heavy 3 against MEQ
1 Wound inflicted, .5 wounds taken

As it stands right now - Str 6 AP 5:
1.25 wounds inflicted, 0.417 wounds taken

With Shred is:
1.458 wounds inflicted, 0.486 wounds taken

Now of course it makes it actually work against AV > 11 but ... its still not great.
per 3 shot volley @ BS3 against AV11 (Rhino)
0.25 hull points removed, 4.167% chance of destruction which is actually worse than it is now.

Yeah but then they become assault cannons but worse.

[Defenestratus]

Yeah but then they become assault cannons but worse.

Uh

How exactly?

They'd have worse base strength, AP and shots than a donkeygun.

[Ashwind]

My thinking of Sweapons.
catapults. 18' assault 2 Strength 4 ap - shred
Avenger catapults are the same but the blade storm ability comes with the gun automatically.
Cannon 24' assault 3 strength 6 ap- shred or rending if you like.

Sure they wound more than bolters., but you have to be 6 inches closer and in sixth edition that's a bigger deal than in fifth.

[Ashwind]

Exactly. They would be a medium strength 24' gun with rending but be worst in virtually every way.

[bigwilko17]

defenestratus do you mean shred would be broken in that its weaker than rending? with str3 ap2 shred gets 1.81 kills compared to rending's 2.2 on meq's unless my maths went severely wrong

[Dalleron]

Why doesn't/shouldn't the shuriken cannon have increased AP over the infantry version? It shoots larger version of the weapon like a heavy bolter does compared to a bolter bolt pistol. I know Eldar aren't space marines and therefore don't have same weapons but this seems like a game mechanic to me.

[Defenestratus]

defenestratus do you mean shred would be broken in that its weaker than rending? with str3 ap2 shred gets 1.81 kills compared to rending's 2.2 on meq's unless my maths went severely wrong

No, shred at Str 4.

It would basically be like having Doom built into the gun.

[Eldur]

Taking the upgrade of splinter weapons as a reference, I would expect the shuriken to get shred or rending, and I bet for rending, thus shuriken cannon being like the assault cannnon but with a dual profile (either switching range, weapon type or being salvo), and avengers + guardians being an all round anti-infantry. Problem is they will be good against vehicles too... Maybe too much capacity (or not if that units don't get any other kind of anti-tank). Then guardians salvo 1/2 or rapid fire (24" both of them) and assault 2 18" for avengers (+ salvo or ad. shots from ex. power).

[Haighus]

No, shred at Str 4.

It would basically be like having Doom built into the gun.
Well, at least that would tie in nicely with losing the old psychic powers.

[bigwilko17]

No, shred at Str 4.

It would basically be like having Doom built into the gun.

will admit i'm still not quite getting your point about having doom built into the gun. in the scenario str 4 shred versus str 3 rending there is a 0.2777 difference in favour of shred. I think the difference between the 2 is solely based on what you are shooting at. against MEQ's rending will likely come out on top whilst against weaker toughness/armour enemies shred would come out as the king. im not sure that dropping the power is necessary

[Bigred]

That last batch of rumors got of lots of sources chattering. Latest word points to Shred for shurikens...

It's possible all of these were tried out, but Shred seems the most likely.

[DarkLink]

Seems much more reasonable, and it'll be similar but not identical to DE's Poison weapons.


But why shred? On Dire Avengers? Sure, why not. But standard? It's discs of metal being propelled at you. A Boltshell doesn't have shread, and that puppy detonates inside you, which vastly increases the chance of even a wing shot proving fatal. And rather messy!


Why does any weapon in particular have shred? Why do Storm Bolters, which are bigger, heavier, with a higher rate of fire which would lead to greater recoil and should be clumsier by any objective measure, allow you to assault after shooting while regular lighter Bolters prevent assault? Why do only some weapons have Rending? Etc.

[Mkvenner]

By the end of the week we should at least start getting some better inklings of the rules before preorders go up on the 25th.

Moreso, I hope. I have not been more excited for a release in a long time. Not to mention that plastic Farseer really got my engine going.

[Defenestratus]

Seems much more reasonable, and it'll be similar but not identical to DE's Poison weapons.



Why does any weapon in particular have shred? Why do Storm Bolters, which are bigger, heavier, with a higher rate of fire which would lead to greater recoil and should be clumsier by any objective measure, allow you to assault after shooting while regular lighter Bolters prevent assault? Why do only some weapons have Rending? Etc.

Oh I can hear the whines and moans from here in my concrete windowless bunker.

"Oh this is such bullsh*t that the Eldar get a better gun than a ROCKET POWERED GRENADE shot by my superhuman!!!!"

[spaceman91]

now now people lets not fight.

[Mysterion]

Oh I can hear the whines and moans from here in my concrete windowless bunker.

"Oh this is such bullsh*t that the Eldar get a better gun than a ROCKET POWERED GRENADE shot by my superhuman!!!!"

I can so hear that too!

Shred seems the fairest and most balanced of the lot. Can you inagine rending on an overwatch: oh all your hits are AP1 then loses a termie or two and rage quits lol. Does salvo work in overwatch if so 4 shots each from 20 Guardians and you're still gonna get a fair few hits.

[Bitrider]

By the end of the week we should at least start getting some better inklings of the rules before preorders go up on the 25th.

Moreso, I hope. I have not been more excited for a release in a long time. Not to mention that plastic Farseer really got my engine going.

I am giddy beyond words.

[deinol]

Oh I can hear the whines and moans from here in my concrete windowless bunker.

"Oh this is such bullsh*t that the Eldar get a better gun than a ROCKET POWERED GRENADE shot by my superhuman!!!!"

Am I the only one who remembers back in the good ol' days when Eldar Shuriken technology was rightfully superior to the crude boltguns of the Imperium? Back when I played, both guns had 24" range, S4, but the boltgun had Save -1 and the Shuriken Catapult had Save -2 and an assault die.

Shred seems a likely version, but not fleshbane.

[Fortunato]

Am I the only one who remembers back in the good ol' days when Eldar Shuriken technology was rightfully superior to the crude boltguns of the Imperium? Back when I played, both guns had 24" range, S4, but the boltgun had Save -1 and the Shuriken Catapult had Save -2 and an assault die.

Shred seems a likely version, but not fleshbane.

Sir, you are not the only one. Let's return the glory of the Eldar!

[DarkLink]

Seeing as I'm sitting on an Eldar army waiting for the new codex, I wouldn't mind that at all. I'm not just bandwagoning, I frikin' started the bandwagon when I picked up ~2000pts like two years ago. I've played it like four times.

[AlaitocJib]

Volley+Bladestorm. Oh...hello.

[Mkvenner]

I am giddy beyond words.

Must be hitting F5 as frantically as I am then. (;

[Alqualonde]

now now people lets not fight.

Isn't that the whole point? Confused ...

[Eldur]

If shurikens got shred that really puts eldar troops back on top (at least in anti-infantry capabilities).... but what about banshees, will the ladies get something to compensate the lack of an assault vehicle? -I don't think the wave serpent will change in that sense-, like shred too, or furious charge... or something.

This is not wishlisting, I'm only trying to guess what could be done to give the Aspect spirit back to Aspect warriors. I was looking at the USR from the rulebook and I found some rules that could apply to them, or that had potential use in the eldar codex fluff-wise. (Monster hunter in a Pathfinder special character humm...)

[Mr Mystery]

Oh I can hear the whines and moans from here in my concrete windowless bunker.

"Oh this is such bullsh*t that the Eldar get a better gun than a ROCKET POWERED GRENADE shot by my superhuman!!!!"

Not from me! I fling around Electricity and glowy green beams of beard!

[Anggul]

I would just like a 6" range increase on both catapults. 18" for the Guardians and their Jetbikes/Vehicles, 24" for the Dire Avengers. That would solve their problems, there's no need for all of these special rules.

Oh, and 4+ armour on the Guardians. Compare them to Fire Warriors, it's definitely reasonable for them to have 4+ armour and 18" range.

[Andersp90]

It's discs of metal being propelled at you.

A monomolecular-thin slice of plasti-crystal material actually. :p

So the fact that a mag only contains 25-1000 rounds, makes no sense..

[Aldavaer]

From Plague Lord over on Warseer "After talking to people here and there I'm pretty sure that warp spiders will have rending"

Given that the Harlequins kiss already has rending it is certainly plausible that it would be given to the DeathSpinner, although i have no idea what Plague Lords sources are like.

[Archon Charybdis]

From Plague Lord over on Warseer "After talking to people here and there I'm pretty sure that warp spiders will have rending"

Given that the Harlequins kiss already has rending it is certainly plausible that it would be given to the DeathSpinner, although i have no idea what Plague Lords sources are like.

Seems entirely plausible though given the Nightspinner has rending and it's gun uses the same technology.

[Mr Mystery]

Seems entirely plausible though given the Nightspinner has rending and it's gun uses the same technology.

True that. I do however remain a smidge doubtful Spiders will get it, but oddly for no good reason....

[DrLove42]

Its similar technology, but not quite the same.

A kiss puts the wire in a rapidly expanding cloud inside someone, whereas a Spinners just cover you in sharp wire. But the big spinners on the night spinner are rending i think....so maybe.

[Archon Charybdis]

True that. I do however remain a smidge doubtful Spiders will get it, but oddly for no good reason....

Well it's one of those things that's almost too perfect. It makes sense, and I could see it happening, but I've also never heard of Plague Lord and have no idea if he's reliable, it could be something made up precisely because it sounds plausible.

[Fortunato]

True that. I do however remain a smidge doubtful Spiders will get it, but oddly for no good reason....

With the same logic, Shadow Weavers should get rending as well.

[Eldar_Atog]

While rending would be nice, I think I'd rather see Deathspinner and Shadow Weaver cause a difficult/dangerous terrain test. It's probably not as useful as rending but it is very fluffy :)

Perhaps it's just the coffee talking but I am pretty optimistic about the codex. This is an odd feeling to me since I tend to be a hardcore pessimist.

[Mr Mystery]

With the same logic, Shadow Weavers should get rending as well.

And it doesn't seem overly overpowered....hmmm.....

[IronZOGZ]

We definitely knew way more about Tau by this point than we do about Eldar... not having Natfka is killing me. I feel like we're brutally in the dark and it's making me more pessimistic, especially after seeing the treatment Chaos got under Kelly (I know Codex "authors" don't write all the rules, but the influence is there).

I know the stuff over on BoK wasn't truly "rumour" but now I'm spooked that they're going to nerf my psychic to the point I won't use it and Ulthwe will die all over again (first they killed the Craftworld codex, then the Eye of Terror Ulthwe list, now people are talking about Farseers with 2 wounds with only wychfire powers?!?!?!).

Here's to the boys and girls in Black. Keep 'em going, Kelly. Don't hurt me.

[Eldar_Atog]

now people are talking about Farseers with 2 wounds with only wychfire powers?!?!?!).



Fear not, good sir. I'm sure they will have more than witchfire powers. I can see no way that Farseers would not have access to the Divination or Telepathy schools :)

[Defenestratus]

BigRed's new article on the front page seems to indicate that Dark Reapers might be getting their "Big guns" back.

Personally I'm hoping that they get the LOS-blocking plasma missiles back :)

[Rangerrob]

Give the warp spiders back their template....with rending.

S6, AP5 Template, Rending.

Though the more I think about it...I doubt they will change any of the Eldar weapon profiles where as the 6th Rulebook is so new.

[IronZOGZ]

Tau changed weapon profiles found in the back of the new 6th edition rulebook - I doubt that will limit their decisions. I just hope the changes aren't so radical that they force entirely new army comps. Tau got trades for some things - Broadsides went down to S8 but gained skyfire and missile drones - their purpose didn't change. Something like that won't make me crazy. But if they take my Reapers from infantry-fighters and try to make them anti-air, or worse, give the Exarch a CCW (web of skulls?) that would bum me out. Applying some new tricks to Warp Spider weapons is almost necessary though - they're an auto-skip in the current book (but so is 75% of the book).

[Power Klawz]

I don't think you're going to see reapers filling the anti-meq slot anymore. I really think they're going to go back to anti-vehicle, MC/large target type duty complete with skyfire.

I'm really hoping hawks take the anti-meq reigns with ap3 guns.

[Eldur]

hawks AP3? heh, so they start with a worse gun than guardians and end with an anti-MEQ? I like to see some optimism here at last, but I'll rather wait for something worse, just in case!

btw... spyders with rending and 12" template ahoy!!!!
phill makes all options viable (looking at DE codex), so expect no autoincludes like these (just my opinion)

[Andersp90]

Tau changed weapon profiles found in the back of the new 6th edition rulebook - I doubt that will limit their decisions. I just hope the changes aren't so radical that they force entirely new army comps. Tau got trades for some things - Broadsides went down to S8 but gained skyfire and missile drones - their purpose didn't change. Something like that won't make me crazy. But if they take my Reapers from infantry-fighters and try to make them anti-air, or worse, give the Exarch a CCW (web of skulls?) that would bum me out. Applying some new tricks to Warp Spider weapons is almost necessary though - they're an auto-skip in the current book (but so is 75% of the book).

A good start would be to purge the current reaper models with holy fire, and replace them with something that dosen't look like crap. :p

An ability to switch between anti-armour and anti-infantry would be pretty cool imho (without making them longfags).

[IronZOGZ]

I'm still running reapers from the 3rd edition book with the smaller head profile and the Big Boots. Can't stand the new reapers with giant foreheads. Wouldn't run those if that was all I had access too ><

[Andersp90]

I'm still running reapers from the 3rd edition book with the smaller head profile and the Big Boots. Can't stand the new reapers with giant foreheads. Wouldn't run those if that was all I had access too ><

I still dont understand how the current reaper models got accepted for production. :confused:

[Eldur]

4056


CRAP WHO?
hehe, sorry I couldn't hold myself from posting this.

my crap list of eldar range: hawks, spiders, bikes, avatar (sheeesh..), phoenix lords (except Maugan Ra), warlocks (specially spear ones). I have ALL of them, and 4 old Wraithlords (the worst of all).

[Defenestratus]

A good start would be to purge the current reaper models with holy fire, and replace them with something that dosen't look like crap. :p

An ability to switch between anti-armour and anti-infantry would be pretty cool imho (without making them longfags).

First - the models they have now are awesome... probably some of my most favorite in the line and the "forehead" complaint is so trite and boring and wrong when you actually see the models in person.

Second, adding flexibility like that is completely un-Eldary. Like all the other aspects, DR's will fill a singular role in the overall scheme.

[Power Klawz]

hawks AP3? heh, so they start with a worse gun than guardians and end with an anti-MEQ? I like to see some optimism here at last, but I'll rather wait for something worse, just in case!

How I Would Fix Aspects: An Exercise in Wishlisting

Scorpions: Give them chainaxes basically. Improve their base strength to 4, give them another attack baseline. 5 str4 ap4 attacks on the charge lets them do what they're supposed to do, namely chew through orcs faster than orks chew through them.

Banshees: Give them some way to assault out of vehicles, doesn't need to be an assault vehicle, maybe just an exarch/aspect power that lets them do it. that's really about it, furious charge couldn't hurt of course but I'm not sure if it really jives. They are angry and screaming, str4 on the charge would be a big boost. giving them access to whatever power weapons they want would be pretty nice too, you'd have some weird combos though. Axe in one hand, lance in the other would be really odd but probably let them kill the most stuff.

Firedragons: Man I don't know, these bros are amazing. a couple of points off the price tag?

Reapers: Just put them back where they belong. They used to be heavy weapons specialists, just give that back to them. Let them shoot aircraft out of the sky with str7 ap4 heavy 2 skyfire amazingness.

Hawks: Seriously, just give them hotshot lasguns and maybe some sort of vector-strikish maneuver that lets them haywire aircraft. They'd go from zero to hero immediately.

Spiders: Give them back their templates. They would be the ultimate middle finger unit. Jump in, spray hateweb all over something, jump back. Then watch your opponent wrestle with the idea of charging them with random charge distance and another face full of hatespray. Slight buffs in CQC would make them even more amazing, something as basic as countercharge combined with hit and run and you've got awesome.

Ballerinaerr... Dire Avengers: Just buff shurikens. They're pretty good all ready, some points off here and there and you're back in business.

[Eldar_Atog]

I'm really hoping hawks take the anti-meq reigns with ap3 guns.

That would be interesting if Hawks became a bit more like the DE Scourges. I would love to spend time debating whether I want to take Spiders or Hawks in an army list.

As it is, my Hawks just sit on the shelf with their wings curled around their knees looking all emo. Never liked their trick of dropping a grenade pack and then running away.

[Power Klawz]

I never really got the Hawks at all. They are functionally what would happen if you gave IG vets hang-gliders. I would have much preferred seeing IG vets with hang-gliders really. (Plus they could drop demo charges and be AMAZING instead of whatever it is that hawks drop, seriously you know the original design happened right after someone found their car covered in pigeon muck.)

Leave the haywire grenades, get rid of the stupid pie-plate, make their guns Str3 Ap3 assault 2 18", they can keep redeploy, let them vector strike with the haywire grenades. Give the exarch access to a bigger version of the regular gun with like, 4 shots and 6 more inches of range or the option to take a bright lance, obviously he should have relentless.

[Andersp90]

First - the models they have now are awesome... probably some of my most favorite in the line and the "forehead" complaint is so trite and boring and wrong when you actually see the models in person.

Second, adding flexibility like that is completely un-Eldary. Like all the other aspects, DR's will fill a singular role in the overall scheme.

I have seen the models irl, and I think they look like something that was sculpted in the 80's. ;)

The exarch pretty much looks like a monkey that got punched in the face by a powerfist. :p

I guess you are right about adding flexibility though.



4056


CRAP WHO?
hehe, sorry I couldn't hold myself from posting this.

my crap list of eldar range: hawks, spiders, bikes, avatar (sheeesh..), phoenix lords (except Maugan Ra), warlocks (specially spear ones). I have ALL of them, and 4 old Wraithlords (the worst of all).


I actually really like the current spider/warlock designs. :)

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11/113883/2436542-443a53e616d451c37bdbf0b7494f2f01.jpg

[Eldar_Atog]

How I Would Fix Aspects: An Exercise in Wishlisting


I'd say you are on the right track with this list. Since you are already on a roll, what changes would you make to Harliquins? The only thing I would change is to make the Kiss either a free upgrade or come standard. To me, it's the cost of upgrading them all to have a Kiss that makes them so expensive.

I would also love for them to make a Solitaire. Either like a lone wolf or the mandrake HQ.

[IronZOGZ]

Back last year someone "leaked" a product list including a bunch of Eldar boxes no one had seen before - Xentarchs and such - pretty sure one of the SKU's was a Solitaire. I guess we hope to see rules in the book and the model in a later release? I would also love to see the Harlequins get some love. Currently way overpriced for how fragile they are, and then you have to add the cost of a Div seer and a Fortune seer to keep them running.

[Koremu]

How I Would Fix Aspects: An Exercise in Wishlisting

Scorpions: Give them chainaxes basically. Improve their base strength to 4, give them another attack baseline. 5 str4 ap4 attacks on the charge lets them do what they're supposed to do, namely chew through orcs faster than orks chew through them.

Banshees: Give them some way to assault out of vehicles, doesn't need to be an assault vehicle, maybe just an exarch/aspect power that lets them do it. that's really about it, furious charge couldn't hurt of course but I'm not sure if it really jives. They are angry and screaming, str4 on the charge would be a big boost. giving them access to whatever power weapons they want would be pretty nice too, you'd have some weird combos though. Axe in one hand, lance in the other would be really odd but probably let them kill the most stuff.

Firedragons: Man I don't know, these bros are amazing. a couple of points off the price tag?

Reapers: Just put them back where they belong. They used to be heavy weapons specialists, just give that back to them. Let them shoot aircraft out of the sky with str7 ap4 heavy 2 skyfire amazingness.

Hawks: Seriously, just give them hotshot lasguns and maybe some sort of vector-strikish maneuver that lets them haywire aircraft. They'd go from zero to hero immediately.

Spiders: Give them back their templates. They would be the ultimate middle finger unit. Jump in, spray hateweb all over something, jump back. Then watch your opponent wrestle with the idea of charging them with random charge distance and another face full of hatespray. Slight buffs in CQC would make them even more amazing, something as basic as countercharge combined with hit and run and you've got awesome.

Ballerinaerr... Dire Avengers: Just buff shurikens. They're pretty good all ready, some points off here and there and you're back in business.

Thematically, Striking Scorpions should get an ambush ability. If you charge them, and they are in cover, then you are in trouble. It would fit with their aspect so well.

Howling Banshees should be given an enhanced defense against Overwatch fire (read the flavour piece stories and count how many times they are described as using acrobatics to avoid being hit in firefights).

Fire Dragons don't need altering.

Dark Reapers I agree should get their range-finder helmets back, to give Skyfire (perhaps with Interceptor as an additional cost power)

Swooping Hawks need to be entirely rewritten. It would not surprise me if they became flying (winged) infantry, as the new flight mechanics somewhat contradict their "fly high" stuff. It would make them seriously fast. They used to have a vector strike ability back in the day (2nd Edition?) So a return of that would not be too much of a surprise.

Warp Spiders - you can't overwatch with a template, remember

Dire Avengers - I'd like to see some more ability given to their supposed "balanced" nature (gun kata in CC? Hugely enhanced Overwatch ability?) and/or their theme as the "honourable defenders" (ability to give Overwatch support fire?)

Shining Spears? Hell if I know. They've been the red-headed stepchild ever since they came in. S6 power weapons are nice, but AP4 just doesn't cut it.

[Andersp90]

Back last year someone "leaked" a product list including a bunch of Eldar boxes no one had seen before - Xentarchs and such - pretty sure one of the SKU's was a Solitaire. I guess we hope to see rules in the book and the model in a later release? I would also love to see the Harlequins get some love. Currently way overpriced for how fragile they are, and then you have to add the cost of a Div seer and a Fortune seer to keep them running.

I dont see it. :/


208x range
The Avatar of Khaine Finecast- box (09 size) - divergent affixes: 11
Eldar Lamia Strike Fighter / Moon Siren Bomber Plastic- box (land raider size)
Eldar Eldritch Raiders Plastic- box (infantry size)
Eldar Webway Gate Plastic- box (land raider size)
Eldar Phoenix Lord Nuadhu, The Fireheart / Alean Vyper Plastic- box (buggy size)
Eldar Spirit Warrior Plastic- box (land raider size)
Eldar Jetbikes Plastic- box (bike squadron size)
Eldar Dragon Riders Plastic- box (bike squadron size)
Eldar Wraithguard / Cataphracts Plastic- box (infantry size)
Eldar Sky Chariots / Shining Spears Plastic- box (bike squadron size)
Eldar Warpspiders / Everguard Plastic- box (infantry size)
Eldar Black Warden Finecast- clamshell
Eldar Fire Dragon Xentarch Finecast- clamshell
Eldar Dire Avenger Xentarch Finecast- clamshell
Eldar Howling Banshee Xentarch Finecast- clamshell
Eldar Striking Scorpion Xentarch Finecast- clamshell
The Avatar of the Young King Finecast- clamshell
Eldar Warlock with Force Staff Finecast- clamshell
Eldar Swooping Hawks Finecast- box (09 size)
Phoenix Lord Kyme'doc, The Planetwister Finecast- clamshell - divergent affixes: XianD; 4

[Mkvenner]

Thematically, Striking Scorpions should get an ambush ability. If you charge them, and they are in cover, then you are in trouble. It would fit with their aspect so well.

So Counter-Attack? I feel like they deserve much more. Something like the Ymargl Genestealer reserves ability. I also feel that all Aspect Warriors should have access to Haywire Grenades.


Howling Banshees should be given an enhanced defense against Overwatch fire (read the flavour piece stories and count how many times they are described as using acrobatics to avoid being hit in firefights).


So like a dodge save Wyches have but only for Overwatch the and first round of combat due to the mask?

[Andersp90]

So Counter-Attack? I feel like they deserve much more. Something like the Ymargl Genestealer reserves ability. I also feel that all Aspect Warriors should have access to Haywire Grenades.


I really like that idea! :)

[Power Klawz]

You get D3 hits per template weapon on overwatch man. You can't overwatch BLAST weapons, flamers and the like are amazing overwatch weapons. You can't snapfire templates in any other circumstance however, but they perform very well on overwatch due to their own particular rule.

As far as harlequins go they just need a discount. Everything else about them is good to go. Lots of high initiative rending attacks make them capable of killing everything. I do think kisses should be standard as it doesn't really make sense not to take them.

Shining spears could just be killier in general, maybe give them a 2+ save to evoke more clearly the image of an armored knight. I think toughness 4 2+ saves with power lances and some sort of close ranged, high ap shooting attack would make the useable.

You could totally give banshees an ability that makes it impossible to overwatch fire against them. The precedent has all ready been set with chaos vehicle options, nothing says banshees can't just get that ability for a cost.

In fact I'd say given the nature of 6th edition that the ability to shutdown overwatch would be far more useful than reducing initiative, especially since the banshees have such high initiative all ready.

[Koremu]

So Counter-Attack? I feel like they deserve much more. Something like the Ymargl Genestealer reserves ability. I also feel that all Aspect Warriors should have access to Haywire Grenades.

So like a dodge save Wyches have but only for Overwatch the and first round of combat due to the mask?

The Ymargl Stealer thing is a bit of a pain to do. I prefer streamlined rules (and rules that aren't once-and-only). Immunity to Assault Grenades would be a possibility for Scorpions (can't grenade what you can't see), along with Counter-Attack.

The dodge save idea would be a possibility for Banshees. Banshees are all about the first strike - the ability to evade overwatch would seem critical. Another idea could be an enhanced charge distance.

I'm not too hot on universal Haywire Grenades. The Aspect Warrior schtick is crippling overspecialisation, generalisation just makes them expensive for their purpose.

[Power Klawz]

They have brain frying psycho-amplifiers in their faces man. Extra saves for overwatch only is ridiculously clunky, just make it impossible to fire overwatch at them as a special rule. They are screaming into your brain and overloading your nervous system, that makes it very hard to hit them as they are sprinting towards you. Done and done.

Universal haywire grenades doesn't really seem to add anything useful or thematic. Why would you have scorpions or avengers trying to slag vehicles? You have fire dragons who will do it all day. You really can't have too much homogenization in an eldar army or it loses its coherence. Every specialized aspect should be amazing at what its built to do, and not really that great at much of anything else. You want this sort of dichotomy wherein you are kind of sad that Banshees can't take down that land raider, but then again who cares when dragons will scrap that metal box in a heartbeat. Everyone does their job, just like union workers.

[Warpspider89]

1) Warp Spiders - you can't overwatch with a template, remember

2) Shining Spears? Hell if I know. They've been the red-headed stepchild ever since they came in. S6 power weapons are nice, but AP4 just doesn't cut it.

1) Yes you can. Its called page 52 of the BRB.

2) The AP4 is only for shooting & the turn after the charge. On the charge they are laying down a collection of WS4/5, I5/6, S6 attacks at AP3, which is pretty legit. All they really need is 1+ to their A stat bar to become contenders with the other current FA slots + maybe a point reduction... down to 30/model would be nice but may be overly optimistic.

[Mkvenner]

The Ymargl Stealer thing is a bit of a pain to do. I prefer streamlined rules (and rules that aren't once-and-only). Immunity to Assault Grenades would be a possibility for Scorpions (can't grenade what you can't see), along with Counter-Attack.

Why is it a pain to do? I thought it was pretty simple. They come out of terrain and can assault. Their chainblades need to have an AP value. Even if it is just AP5.



The dodge save idea would be a possibility for Banshees. Banshees are all about the first strike - the ability to evade overwatch would seem critical. Another idea could be an enhanced charge distance.

I'm not too hot on universal Haywire Grenades. The Aspect Warrior schtick is crippling overspecialisation, generalisation just makes them expensive for their purpose.

It's just access to Haywires. Wyches are really well priced. So them being able to take it is worthwhile. If not just a general anti tank method, maybe a specialised version dictated from their Aspect? Update the Executioner with Armorbane?


I really like that idea! :)

Thank you kindly. :)

[Bigred]

Latest word says Harlequins are unchanged from the Dark Eldar book - so apparently they are the constant link between both Eldar factions.

[Warpspider89]

That is fine IMO. Harlequins are already good units that can be devastating if used effectively.

[DarkLink]

Typical GW.

[Koremu]

1) Yes you can. Its called page 52 of the BRB.

Yeah I forgot. Haven't played recently.


Why is it a pain to do? I thought it was pretty simple. They come out of terrain and can assault. Their chainblades need to have an AP value. Even if it is just AP5.

It's just access to Haywires. Wyches are really well priced. So them being able to take it is worthwhile. If not just a general anti tank method, maybe a specialised version dictated from their Aspect? Update the Executioner with Armorbane?

It's a pain to do because it involves another level of record keeping. And as I said, it's a one-time-only ability, which I dislike.

And as I said (as did Power Klawz), Eldar Aspect Warriors are supposed to stick to their speciality. That's the point of the Aspect Warrior.

[Mkvenner]

It's a pain to do because it involves another level of record keeping. And as I said, it's a one-time-only ability, which I dislike.

And as I said (as did Power Klawz), Eldar Aspect Warriors are supposed to stick to their speciality. That's the point of the Aspect Warrior.

Agree to disagree then.

[Andersp90]

It's a pain to do because it involves another level of record keeping. And as I said, it's a one-time-only ability, which I dislike.


Not really. You just write it down on a piece of paper before the game starts like it is stated in the rules. Pretty simple. :)

[Archon Charybdis]

Not really. You just write it down on a piece of paper before the game starts like it is stated in the rules. Pretty simple. :)

Yeah, it's not particularly tough to keep track of, and it seems quite fitting for super human ninja assassins.

[bfmusashi]

So ninja they walk around with chainsaws and no one knows they're there.

[Leirgoth]

So ninja they walk around with chainsaws and no one knows they're there.

is it because it looks like chainsaws that it has to sound like a chainsaw? do they even have the chainsaw on while sneaking?

[Andersp90]

So ninja they walk around with chainsaws and no one knows they're there.

http://static1.fjcdn.com/comments/Thats+like+getting+revenge+on+someone+by+filling+t heir+car+s+_4661e3bca62855f90ca5d37d52e065bf.jpg

[Mkvenner]

So ninja they walk around with chainsaws and no one knows they're there.

With an Exarch anything is possible. ™

[Mysterion]

All aspect warriors having haywire grenades might be a bit much. Perhaps all Exarchs could have them standard like Autarchs do.

[Mkvenner]

Not having them standard, but the option to take them. I could agree with Exarchs having them, but their weapons make up for not having them anyways.

e.g. Fire Dragon Exarch's Melta Bombs, Striking Scorpion Exarch's Scorpions Claws, and Howling Banshee Exarch's with an Executioner (I'll admit this last one is pretty weak).

[DarkLink]

So ninja they walk around with chainsaws and no one knows they're there.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://drmcninja.com/comics/2007-02-075p37.jpg&imgrefurl=http://drmcninja.com/archives/comic/5p37/&h=1116&w=756&sz=193&tbnid=DWIuP_f06Yo8IM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=61&zoom=1&usg=__CLT_qppilYkczz7H9QVjNg1VKwM=&docid=yXBis7pa167HNM&sa=X&ei=e_OSUaz4OumxiQLO6oHoDA&ved=0CDsQ9QEwAQ&dur=501

[Gwyidion]

Same harlequins are fine - except they're overpriced.

[deinol]

Same harlequins are fine - except they're overpriced.

If they do tweak the points, I wonder if they will errata the dark eldar versions.

[Eldar_Atog]

If they do tweak the points, I wonder if they will errata the dark eldar versions.

I don't think they would. Have they ever done something like that?

I do wonder what they will do with the shadow seer. He's currently a psyker with a hard coded power. Since they seem so bent on having psykers pull their powers from schools, I would think they would change him. If they don't, he becomes an exception to the rule.

In the end, it's not really important. They are my favorite fluff unit so I will probably use them regardless :)

[DarkLink]

There are a ton of units that should get updated, but GW just leaves them alone every single new codex. Land Raiders, Techmarines, etc. Were Techmarine ever good, other than the GK ones with all the grenades?

[deinol]

There are a ton of units that should get updated, but GW just leaves them alone every single new codex. Land Raiders, Techmarines, etc. Were Techmarine ever good, other than the GK ones with all the grenades?

Fair enough. If I'm playing against someone with a unit updated in another book, I'd let my opponent use the newer versions. But I'm a casual player, so I don't really care about RAW.

[Learn2Eel]

There are a ton of units that should get updated, but GW just leaves them alone every single new codex. Land Raiders, Techmarines, etc. Were Techmarine ever good, other than the GK ones with all the grenades?

Or that should have been included, like the siege Land Raider for Chaos Marines.

The biggest problem with having specialist units is that you can't fit all of them into a normal game, hence why most prefer flexibility in their standard units - much like Tactical Marines with special/heavy weapons and so on. Eldar don't really have that, which is kind of the point, but if they can't be used like that, all of their elite choices need to be worth taking. Swooping Hawks need to be good at taking out fliers, but they shouldn't invalidate the use of, for example, Shining Spears and Warp Spiders.

[Darge]

If they do tweak the points, I wonder if they will errata the dark eldar versions.

Possibly, though I remember reading on some forums the possibility of an allies supplement being added to the game after apoc. I could see them skipping the eldar codex and being added there and de getting errata to go to the ally supplement for harlies. Possibly also with eldar exodites....(personal speculation not rumor).

Would be pretty sweet.

[zenBen]

Or that should have been included, like the siege Land Raider for Chaos Marines.

The biggest problem with having specialist units is that you can't fit all of them into a normal game, hence why most prefer flexibility in their standard units - much like Tactical Marines with special/heavy weapons and so on. Eldar don't really have that, which is kind of the point, but if they can't be used like that, all of their elite choices need to be worth taking. Swooping Hawks need to be good at taking out fliers, but they shouldn't invalidate the use of, for example, Shining Spears and Warp Spiders.

This this and this. It's also worth noting that the game has diversified a lot since 2nd, which might also have been the last time that all Eldar units felt uniquely useful (to me). Now there are flyers, a lot more mobility in other armies, a lot more tricksy use of off-table stuff like reserves, and specialist uses could be found for each Aspect and other FOC choice to tool up the Eldar for this brave new tabletop. For instance, a lot of people are talking about Hawks as AA, which is perfect, and I really liked the sound of Baharroth's Tempest from Apoc (though I've never played it).
Only 1 problem: everybody who plays Eldar already has the old models. GW need to sell new models, so why make old models any better?

[deaddice]

The frenzy over the new eldar codex grows more and more intense, I expect a minor blood bath if there are any shipping delays on eldar stock.

Back to the topic though I personally would hate to not see swooping hawks as anti air specialists.

[Mr Mystery]

The frenzy over the new eldar codex grows more and more intense, I expect a minor blood bath if there are any shipping delays on eldar stock.

Back to the topic though I personally would hate to not see swooping hawks as anti air specialists.

Oh don't worry. This is Eldar. There'll be a blood bath anyway when the serious whiners don't get exactly what they want. More so than other armies.

Can't fault their passion (and this is about a minority of Eldar players folks) but jeez. They need to manage their own expectations.

[eldargal]

Can't fault their passion (and this is about a minority of Eldar players folks) but jeez. They need to manage their own expectations.
This is exactly why I think wishlisting is a bad idea, especially with eldar.

[Andersp90]

Since they seem so bent on having psykers pull their powers from schools, I would think they would change him. If they don't, he becomes an exception to the rule.

Not really, GK libs can choose powers from their own codex if they want. No random ****.

Can't really remember what happent to the other races.

[Sonikgav]

Looking forward to what ive heard so far. Eldar (Dark or Rainbow) are the only armies I dont play but ill be sorely tempted if the rumours of the Wraithguard/Lord/Knight turn out true.

[Learn2Eel]

Not really, GK libs can choose powers from their own codex if they want. No random ****.

Can't really remember what happent to the other races.

All 5th Edition or older codices with psychic powers pick them, but pay points to use them. They only roll on random charts if they swap their powers out.

On the Wraiths, if Wraithlords have a more standardised monstrous creature profile (S6 T6) but gain - at the very least - an additional attack and wound then I think I will be happy. The Wraithknight will likely be much more expensive, with the old Wraithlord stat line (probably S8 T8 though) and five or six wounds. Just my guess, as I assume the Wraithknight is a monstrous creature. Interesting to see where they are placed though; I expect Wraithknights won't follow the Riptide example, as the Eldar Elites section is absolutely chockers. I'm worried that the Wraithknight will compete against the Wraithlord in the Heavy Support section, and that just won't fit. It may fit in the Elites slot , but only if Wraithguard become Troops. In fact, how would Eldar players feel about this; Wraithguard (Troops), Wraithlord (Elites), Wraithknight (Heavy Support)? I think that would make a lot of sense.

[DrLove42]

If Wraithlords are anything less than T8, they either better get 2+ armour or an invuln.

Same with the giant Wraith.

Look at all other giant beasties - Dreadknight - 2+ 5++. Riptide. 2+ 5/3++.

I hope wraithlords are still decent. I have so many...

I'd like to see Wraithguard be useable as troops in squads of less than 10. Maybe only if you have an IC or one unit per Wraithlord or something. 10 is so cost prohibitve....but if Wraithguard are getting new models, expect awesome new rules to go with them...

[spaceman91]

i can't see there being big big changes to the codex. i really think that the way army books and codex are going that this is going to be another update codex ( eg. some points go down, some points go up and a little bit of shuffling ) plus along with the update a big shiny thing. I really cant see the eldar getting the DE treatment that some people seem to want.

[Autarch]

i can't see there being big big changes to the codex.

I keep seeing this comment pop up, and I can't help but strongly disagree. Going all the way back to Dark Eldar, DE, Necrons, Grey Knights, Dark Angels and Tau were all heavily reworked in terms of the mechanics of the army. The only exception being Chaos which was the only real "update" book so far. Eldar are still operating from a 4th edition book, guardians, swooping hawks, banshees, shining spears, and even the vyper have all gone down the drain in terms of effectiveness. The army needs more than a face lift to get it going again, and I think the Dark Eldar or the Tau book is a reasonable template in terms of what we can expect in terms of reworking of their mechanics (though I doubt the Eldar book will approach Tau in raw power).

[Mr Mystery]

I keep seeing this comment pop up, and I can't help but strongly disagree. Going all the way back to Dark Eldar, DE, Necrons, Grey Knights, Dark Angels and Tau were all heavily reworked in terms of the mechanics of the army. The only exception being Chaos which was the only real "update" book so far. Eldar are still operating from a 4th edition book, guardians, swooping hawks, banshees, shining spears, and even the vyper have all gone down the drain in terms of effectiveness. The army needs more than a face lift to get it going again, and I think the Dark Eldar or the Tau book is a reasonable template in terms of what we can expect in terms of reworking of their mechanics (though I doubt the Eldar book will approach Tau in raw power).


Trouble is there, the first four you listed needed serious work. Dark Eldar were on a 3rd Ed codex, as were Necrons (they may have been early 4th. Memory is a touch hazy). Dark Angels had no identity to them, and Tau...well they were Tau, 'nuff said.

Eldar however have existed since Rogue Trader....the army is set, and well established. You can't monkey (monkeigh?) with that too much.

[Defenestratus]

Eldar however have existed since Rogue Trader....the army is set, and well established. You can't monkey (monkeigh?) with that too much.

Its more than possible to remain true to the established fluff, and still rework the mechanics of the individual units/weapons/powers.

[bfmusashi]

Yeah, and it's not like the aspects haven't changed a fair bit since their inception. Sure, Scorpions and Banshees are still close combat machines, but the way they work, and the targets you could send them in for have changed. I'm personally hoping Swooping Hawks get some kind of reverse Vector Strike where a flier that moves over them takes a haywire hit from them jumping up, landing on the craft's belly, setting explosives, and jumping back off.

[Sonikgav]

All 5th Edition or older codices with psychic powers pick them, but pay points to use them. They only roll on random charts if they swap their powers out.

On the Wraiths, if Wraithlords have a more standardised monstrous creature profile (S6 T6) but gain - at the very least - an additional attack and wound then I think I will be happy. The Wraithknight will likely be much more expensive, with the old Wraithlord stat line (probably S8 T8 though) and five or six wounds. Just my guess, as I assume the Wraithknight is a monstrous creature. Interesting to see where they are placed though; I expect Wraithknights won't follow the Riptide example, as the Eldar Elites section is absolutely chockers. I'm worried that the Wraithknight will compete against the Wraithlord in the Heavy Support section, and that just won't fit. It may fit in the Elites slot , but only if Wraithguard become Troops. In fact, how would Eldar players feel about this; Wraithguard (Troops), Wraithlord (Elites), Wraithknight (Heavy Support)? I think that would make a lot of sense.

How would I feel? Youve just described the army I want to build :-D

[Learn2Eel]

If Wraithlords are anything less than T8, they either better get 2+ armour or an invuln.

Same with the giant Wraith.

Look at all other giant beasties - Dreadknight - 2+ 5++. Riptide. 2+ 5/3++.

I hope wraithlords are still decent. I have so many...

I'd like to see Wraithguard be useable as troops in squads of less than 10. Maybe only if you have an IC or one unit per Wraithlord or something. 10 is so cost prohibitve....but if Wraithguard are getting new models, expect awesome new rules to go with them...

Typical monstrous creatures are S6 T6 W4-6 3+. Just because the Wraithlord wouldn't have Dreadknight or Riptide stats doesn't make them bad. The Wraithlord will likely be more than half the cost of a Riptide anyway - I doubt they will get more expensive than they are now if they get a stat drop - and if it pays less for its weapon upgrades than it does currently, all the better. With cover working as it is now the only army you have to worry about pumping out high strength and low AP shots that ignore cover are Tau. Ultimately, Riptides with Ion Accelerators are way too good for their points anyway, as are Dreadknights with personal teleporters and nemesis greatswords (though the latter isn't too under-costed comparatively). If a Wraithlord is a (for example) 90 point monstrous creature that is WS4 BS4 S6 T6 W4 I4 A3 LD10 3+ and its weapon options are 10 points or less (say 15 for twin-linked) then I doubt you would ever see anyone complaining.

From what I have heard about the Wraithknight, I would expect it to be the middle child between the Riptide (ranged firepower) and the Dreadknight (melee supremacy), what with rumoured pulsar lances and the like. It will likely have 5-6 wounds and either (probably not both) T8 or 2+.

Wraithguard probably only need a slight (maybe 5ish points) price drop and a boost to their weapon ranges. 18 or 24 inch guns should be mandatory, especially given that according to Hastings (I think) Wraithguard will be in a dual kit with a new melee option as well. Though given the probable removal of psychic powers like Fortune, maybe their price will go down even more.

[Mr Mystery]

Still get the distinct feeling the Eldar players have set their own Disappointment Bomb ticking here..... Some of the demands (far from all) are frankly ludicrous. Expectations are way, way too high. And the made up rumours (the obviously made up ones, like Fleshbane up the wazoo) have only poured petrol on the witch...

[Fortunato]

I'm still expecting this months release not to be Eldar.

That would be funny!


Oh don't worry. This is Eldar. There'll be a blood bath anyway when the serious whiners don't get exactly what they want. More so than other armies.

Can't fault their passion (and this is about a minority of Eldar players folks) but jeez. They need to manage their own expectations.


Still get the distinct feeling the Eldar players have set their own Disappointment Bomb ticking here..... Some of the demands (far from all) are frankly ludicrous. Expectations are way, way too high. And the made up rumours (the obviously made up ones, like Fleshbane up the wazoo) have only poured petrol on the witch...

Not sure what your problem is with Eldar players, but I say let them be excited. It's been a long time since the Eldar were updated and that is why there is so much anticipation and speculation. Stop being a downer and join the party!

[Bitrider]

Still get the distinct feeling the Eldar players have set their own Disappointment Bomb ticking here..... Some of the demands (far from all) are frankly ludicrous. Expectations are way, way too high. And the made up rumours (the obviously made up ones, like Fleshbane up the wazoo) have only poured petrol on the witch...

I just wish they wouldn't mess with the Farseer powers or Farseers' at all and random powers have never ever been a fun part of the game for me. I don't like it in Fantasy and I sure won't like it in 40K. I just don't see fun in paying for a unit you don't know the capabilities of when you buy it. Eh, maybe I just don't see the big picture in random power tables.

[Andersp90]

On the Wraiths, if Wraithlords have a more standardised monstrous creature profile (S6 T6) but gain - at the very least - an additional attack and wound then I think I will be happy. The Wraithknight will likely be much more expensive, with the old Wraithlord stat line (probably S8 T8 though) and five or six wounds. Just my guess, as I assume the Wraithknight is a monstrous creature. Interesting to see where they are placed though; I expect Wraithknights won't follow the Riptide example, as the Eldar Elites section is absolutely chockers. I'm worried that the Wraithknight will compete against the Wraithlord in the Heavy Support section, and that just won't fit. It may fit in the Elites slot , but only if Wraithguard become Troops. In fact, how would Eldar players feel about this; Wraithguard (Troops), Wraithlord (Elites), Wraithknight (Heavy Support)? I think that would make a lot of sense.

The wraithlords being T8 is one of the things that makes them unique. I dont really see that changing.

I think the WL will stay as a heavy while the WG moves to the troops section (or have the ability to become troops). The WK will probably follow in the footsteps of the riptide and become an elite choice (imho).




Wraithguard probably only need a slight (maybe 5ish points) price drop and a boost to their weapon ranges. 18 or 24 inch guns should be mandatory, especially given that according to Hastings (I think) Wraithguard will be in a dual kit with a new melee option as well. Though given the probable removal of psychic powers like Fortune, maybe their price will go down even more.

According to the rumors, the WG will get new ranged options + CC weapons.

I really like the idea of a unit of five with 4 x 24 inch anti-infantry guns + a 36 inch one for anti-tank.

It also makes alot of sense, since the WG are ment to fill out the gaps in the aspects where the warriors are too few (or completly gone - looking at you Iyanden).

It is also stated in the wraithlord fluff, that the soul of a melee hero will choose the same path when guiding a WL, while the soul of a ranged hero will prefer to fight at range.

I think the same principle (fluff) should apply to the WG. :)

[Eldar_Atog]

Not sure what your problem is with Eldar players, but I say let them be excited. It's been a long time since the Eldar were updated and that is why there is so much anticipation and speculation. Stop being a downer and join the party!

Thank you for echoing my thoughts. I don't understand why people whine so much about us Eldar players being excited and worried about our codex. When I see people nerding about their upcoming codexes, I smile because I know the feeling. If they don't want to read our nerding then they don't have to be in the Eldar rumors thread.

I always found it odd when a marine player calls me gay when they see me playing my Eldar army. In the end, we are all playing with plastic army men. Perhaps the only way they can feel better about themselves is to insult someone else.

[Mr Mystery]

Excitement and worry are fine.

However, whiners who play Eldar (order of that, very important!) tend to be particularly vocal, and aggrieved when they don't get exactly what was rumoured, and refuse to accept that as always, the vast majority of rumours prove to be false, or at least misunderstood.

And it is particularly noticable with Eldar. As I posted several pages back, nothing ever seems good enough!

Yes, you do need a new book. Yes, it needs to be a pretty decent update. No, it won't be what you demand. No, it's not likely to contain everything you consider. Yes, the whining, ragequitting and general dissatisfaction will be voluminous.

[bfmusashi]

"Oh honey, you're just a sound sleeper."

[Mkvenner]

Salt required, but while perusing /tg this was posted Sunday.

http://archive.foolz.us/tg/search/image/3DXt3UOFA5mFKa7Q9jo50g/

Some interesting options even if it turns out to be wishlisting. Cheers.

[Sonikgav]

Hmm.. Wraithguard for 35 points with FNP as standard? Id take that as long as theres a way to get them in Troops.

[Mr Mystery]

Salt required, but while perusing /tg this was posted Sunday.

http://archive.foolz.us/tg/search/image/3DXt3UOFA5mFKa7Q9jo50g/

Some interesting options even if it turns out to be wishlisting. Cheers.

Wish list. Load of stuff missed off, nothing about new toys.

[Power Klawz]

I'll eat my hat if I'm not right about at least 30% of my guesses.

(it will be like a chocolate hat or something.)

[Eldar_Atog]

Excitement and worry are fine.

However, whiners who play Eldar (order of that, very important!) tend to be particularly vocal, and aggrieved when they don't get exactly what was rumoured, and refuse to accept that as always, the vast majority of rumours prove to be false, or at least misunderstood.

And it is particularly noticable with Eldar. As I posted several pages back, nothing ever seems good enough!

Yes, you do need a new book. Yes, it needs to be a pretty decent update. No, it won't be what you demand. No, it's not likely to contain everything you consider. Yes, the whining, ragequitting and general dissatisfaction will be voluminous.

The whiners you speak of are in every army. When the next big marine book comes out, there will people whining about how something in the codex is weaker than some other army's equilivant choice. The same with Chaos, Tau, Necron, Sisters, Guard, etc... Why does it matter? Just ignore it and go on the next comment. If you comment on it, your not going to have any effect on the whiners. You are just going to look like a wet blanket to the people that are just excited about their new codex.

[Mkvenner]

I'll eat my hat if I'm not right about at least 30% of my guesses.

(it will be like a chocolate hat or something.)

I wanted to pick the flavor!

[bfmusashi]

Elderberry perhaps?

[deinol]

Excitement and worry are fine.

However, whiners who play Marines (order of that, very important!) tend to be particularly vocal, and aggrieved when they don't get exactly what was rumoured, and refuse to accept that as always, the vast majority of rumours prove to be false, or at least misunderstood.

And it is particularly noticable with Marines. As I posted several pages back, nothing ever seems good enough!

Yes, you do need a new book. Yes, it needs to be a pretty decent update. No, it won't be what you demand. No, it's not likely to contain everything you consider. Yes, the whining, ragequitting and general dissatisfaction will be voluminous.

Fixed that for you. All the Eldar players I know have been very patient despite their codex sliding further and further out of date.

Of course, if you have a thread from seven years ago where a bunch of Eldar players rage quit after the "new" codex came out, I'd love to be proven wrong. As it is, you just sound like a troll.

[Power Klawz]

Whinging about whinging is like... woah man.

"Yo dawg, I heard you liked complaining. Well we made some complaints about your complaints so now you can complain about complaining. You're welcome."

[Kyban]

Whinging about whinging is like... woah man.

"Yo dawg, I heard you liked complaining. Well we made some complaints about your complaints so now you can complain about complaining. You're welcome."
LOL

I just hope the rules reflect the fluff better than the last codex.

[bfmusashi]

The only way to play Eldar to the fluff is just watch another person's game and keep saying "as it was foreseen" and "all according to my plan."

[Eldar_Atog]

Of course, if you have a thread from seven years ago where a bunch of Eldar players rage quit after the "new" codex came out, I'd love to be proven wrong. As it is, you just sound like a troll.

When the 4th edition Eldar book came out, I don't remember seeing much rage quitting on the EldarOnline/40K Online forums. Everyone seemed excited about the changes to the FOC and the addition of Doom and the Harliquins.

[Mr Mystery]

Oh it was there. Plastic Warwalker? that's not good enough. Not rending on everything that's not good enough. Wave Serpent that wasn't good enough. No 'roll a D6 at the start of the game. On a 1-6 you win' rule that's not good enough.

Now, do pop back and look at what I actually wrote...it's quite specific, and even highlighted.....done that?

So...... 'whiners who play Eldar' by no means indicates a majority. But they are exceptionally vocal. Even drowning out long time Necron or Dark Eldar players, despite having had an update before them.

As I've said pages ago, I admire the passion Eldar players have for their army, and there is precisely nothing wrong with it. However, said passion does lead to expectations being heightened to the point where you're going to feel let down or insulted (why insulted, I'm not sure. But apparently some people do get insulted over these things) through absolutely no fault of GW's....

[Mkvenner]

I'll take your whiny Eldar players and raise you a Chaos Space Marine player. Even with this latest codex there are still many players *****ing about not having Cult Terminators, Cult leaders, and the amount of detail that went into the Legion/Gods gear.

Even with it being one of the better 6th edition codices out there, Chaos players complained the most ever since their redo in 2007.

[bfmusashi]

Because Doomrider is the best thing about the dark gods >.>

[Power Klawz]

I think the crux of our (admittedly low level) ire directed at you is that none of what you are saying matters or enriches the conversation, in fact it does the opposite.

I mean ok, you've got one of them thar "opinions" on the matter, but what it basically boils down to is that everyone has an opinion, and when it comes to having negative opinions of other people, well its generally preferred that you just keep your mouth shut about it unless its having a directly deleterious effect on your life.

Some people are never satisfied with certain things. Ok whatever. They'll either say something interesting or unintersting, you'll either agree or disagree. So basically, disagree with specific points and make cogent arguments, don't just poop all over an entire group of people because something someone said at some point in history annoyed you.

Take for example certain people in this thread being none too thrilled about random powers for eldar psykers. I disagree with this and have stated so specifically in previous posts, I've made my case and had some people basically say "nope, you aren't right." That's about as good as it gets on the internet man. You're not going to change the proclivities of any group of people just by saying over and over again that you don't like them, in fact you're likely to accomplish the opposite and exacerbate the problem, in addition to creating a whole lot of surplus hate and discontent.

[Eldar_Atog]

I think the crux of our (admittedly low level) ire directed at you is that none of what you are saying matters or enriches the conversation, in fact it does the opposite.


Thank you, PK. You said it much simply than I could.

Mr. Mystery: We all have our own axes to grind and bad experiences with things. At one of the places that I used to play, there were several marine players that refused to play against me... calling me that "gay *** eldar guy". I had never seen some of them before. They just walked in, saw my army, and just started bashing me and my army. This soon started to get picked up by some of the other players. After that, I stopped going to that store and found a new store that had a healthy play group

Now, I am not gay and I like to think of myself as a good sportsman. I don't usually play power lists... I prefer trying to stay true to the fluff of my army. Should I let few those marine players color my opinions of other marine players? Should I go into a rumor thread about a upcoming marine codex and start making comments about how a few marine players are gay bashers? No, I should not. If I had stopped playing 40K because of those other players, I would have never been exposed to this other gaming group.

[Lexington]

Even with it being one of the better 6th edition codices out there, Chaos players complained the most ever since their redo in 2007.
For srs. Eldar players have grumbled a bit since 3rd, but in their defense, they've had only gotten two Codexes in that time frame, and both were fairly uneven efforts. You could give many Chaos Marine players a Codex of gold with platinum lettering, and they'd still complain about Night Lords not getting Raptor Troops.

[Caitsidhe]

I think that it safe to say that since 6th Edition is a game in which the gun is king, Eldar are going to do pretty well this time around. :) I stopped caring much about the rumors because the best ones (balanced and interesting) are never true. The worst ones, i.e. the ones we don't like usually do come true. :D

[Demonus]

To be fair to CSM players, their codex is really a steaming pile compared to what it could have been. While you can definitely win with it (sometimes) and it does have the Hell Drake which a great unit, there are so many little things that could have been done to make it great, while still balanced, and pleased both fluff guys and competitive gals.

That being said, I am looking forward to the Eldar reboot/redo. They were my second army in 1994 with CSM being first, Ive finally gotten around to getting them painted and hope to be competative again soon.

[Mkvenner]

To be fair to CSM players, their codex is really a steaming pile compared to what it could have been. While you can definitely win with it (sometimes) and it does have the Hell Drake which a great unit, there are so many little things that could have been done to make it great, while still balanced, and pleased both fluff guys and competitive gals.

That being said, I am looking forward to the Eldar reboot/redo. They were my second army in 1994 with CSM being first, Ive finally gotten around to getting them painted and hope to be competative again soon.

Steaming pile when compared to what? Chaos players will never be satisfied until they get the support Imperial Marines get. 6th Edition Chaos Space Marines is actually a fairly good codex in terms of playability and fluff. Especially after the 4th edition fiasco.

[DarkLink]

When the 4th edition Eldar book came out, I don't remember seeing much rage quitting on the EldarOnline/40K Online forums. Everyone seemed excited about the changes to the FOC and the addition of Doom and the Harliquins.

That's because the 4th ed codex was stupid good in 4th ed. It hasn't aged well.


For srs. Eldar players have grumbled a bit since 3rd, but in their defense, they've had only gotten two Codexes in that time frame, and both were fairly uneven efforts. You could give many Chaos Marine players a Codex of gold with platinum lettering, and they'd still complain about Night Lords not getting Raptor Troops.

GW has yet to give them even a silver codex, or really even an iron one. In the last codex, there was only one good unit per force org slot so if you wanted to win you were stuck with Daemon Princes, scouting Chosen, Plague Marines, and Vindicator/Defilers pretty much. This codex is the same, except some of those units actually got worse, in exchange for every Chaos list EVAR having 3 Heldrakes. For an army that should have as many widely varied factions as all the different SM codices, almost none of those factions are actually playable.

[Caitsidhe]

This thread is for Eldar rumors and not CSM reviews. :D I don't think we can really compare them (or the players of each) until both books are out and they have their own thread for it. I believe that Eldar will get some good Flier options complete with Vector Dancer. I believe they will have ranged weapons with Shred. I think they will continue to have (and increase) their volume of higher STR fire. I suspect they might be the first book to get Stealth Fliers, i.e. planes which are immune to Interceptor fire.

[deinol]

I just hope the Wraith Knight is closer to $50 than $100, because I know I'll want one. Probably little chance of that though.

[Andersp90]

I just hope the Wraith Knight is closer to $50 than $100, because I know I'll want one. Probably little chance of that though.

Would it be rude/evil to mention that I get a 33% discount on my models?

[Warpspider89]

Would it be rude/evil to mention that I get a 33% discount on my models?

Only if you don't share.

[Eldar_Atog]

I just hope the Wraith Knight is closer to $50 than $100, because I know I'll want one. Probably little chance of that though.

Think you need to plan on it being the same price as the Tau Riptide. $85.00 US dollars.

Does anyone know the scale of the old Eldar Knight titans that were made by ArmorCast? If they were about the same size range as the Riptide, it would be cool to mix an old Knight model with this new Wraith Construct.

It would fit in nice with my ArmorCast Falcon :)

[Mkvenner]

Ugh some blurry pics would be nice right about now... :o

[Andersp90]

Ugh some blurry pics would be nice right about now... :o

Dont jinx it!

[Chosen One]

I'm absolutely impressed. Saturday it's just one week to the June WD. And there is nothing except the Farseer-Sprue. The only solid rumours are from Hastings and Best_Pone from the Flyer. I hate it, because I love Eldar :) But I'm impressed too. What does GW do? Is it just because Faeit is down??? Amazing :)

[Mkvenner]

Dont jinx it!

I didn't mean to!


I'm absolutely impressed. Saturday it's just one week to the June WD. And there is nothing except the Farseer-Sprue. The only solid rumours are from Hastings and Best_Pone from the Flyer. I hate it, because I love Eldar :) But I'm impressed too. What does GW do? Is it just because Faeit is down??? Amazing :)

Actually preorders go up next week. Since the first week of June is only two weeks away. We should have started to get something by now... If not tomorrow.

[Andersp90]

Actually preorders go up next week. Since the first week of June is only two weeks away. We should have started to get something by now... If not tomorrow.´

Im getting a bit worried. :(

[Mkvenner]

It's only because we have not had Naftka to bring about every rumour possible. Just gotta be patient, as difficult as that is.

[Andersp90]

It's only because we have not had Naftka to bring about every rumour possible. Just gotta be patient, as difficult as that is.

It's just odd that hastings and stickmokey haven't posted anything.

[Mkvenner]

I don't trust StickMonkey all that much. Hastings has said he is no longer in the rumour biz, but likes to shed some light here and there. Especially when Warseer is at its darkest.

[DarkLink]

I don't trust StickMonkey all that much.

This attitude towards rumor guys is why this happened:



Hastings has said he is no longer in the rumour biz...

If you expect rumors to be 110% accurate, then sure, don't trust them. You have to understand that they see stuff that's mostly mid-production. Stuff changes, sometimes they don't get the whole story, sometime stuff is out of context. Instead of being critical of someone like Stickmonkey, you should just be happy he's willing and able to share what he does know, even if there are good odds that a lot of it has changed before the final version.

[Mkvenner]

It's not even that Darklink.

Stickmonkey lost credibility to a lot of people when he gave such vague early rumours, changes his original rumours, and even jump in after they were corrected by Harry, Hastings, or others of the like. I was not being critical of him. Just saying he can share what he likes, but at the same time it makes it difficult to trust him.

Hastings has a sterling record. He is a tried and true rumourmonger.

When you get new posters to the rumour section that do not appreciate what they are given or do not understand the stakes are why people like Harry and Hastings dislike to post. They feel under-appreciated because some Duffy decides to deride them because they do not believe them.

I'm always happy to get info from rumourmongers. Calling me out for stating my opinion on the matter is being rather crass don't you think?

Hastings stopped because even though he was almost 100% correct, people still gave him hell for no damned reason. He has given concrete information which is what we all need, even though we crave anything that we can get.

EDIT- Before this gets out of hand. We are essentially arguing over the quality of the rumours we get. You want anything, where I prefer concrete.

[Chronowraith]

You want anything, where I prefer concrete.

Is there really any such thing as a concrete rumor? Rumors by definition are unverified(and unverifiable) statements. The moment they become verified by an official statement or publication it ceases to be a rumor.

Seeing a picture from a leaked white dwarf a couple weeks before it hits newsstands isn't a rumor. It is at that point a verified fact.

[Defenestratus]

You want anything, where I prefer concrete.
What an ungrateful sausage bag.

You're lucky you get any rumors at all much less ones that may not be perfect.

No wonder the guys that supply whispers feel like crap with a peanut gallery containing the likes of you.

[Maxis Lithium]

People give guff to rumor mongers when their stuff turns out to bee bunk, assuming they were lying. The reality is that it can be true when they got the information but either it was changed, or the draft they got the info from was already out of date.

People get so but hurt when they don't get what they want. But this is the internet. People hidden by anonymity and able to say what they want without real consequence.

[Mkvenner]

What an ungrateful sausage bag.

You're lucky you get any rumors at all much less ones that may not be perfect.

No wonder the guys that supply whispers feel like crap with a peanut gallery containing the likes of you.

Must have struck a nerve on that one. Apparently the meaning of preference is lost on you. Just because I 'prefer' something doesn't mean I refuse to get my hands dirty and make the most of what is given.

Way to fire off the handle. Especially from a fellow Floridian. Whew.

[Eldar_Atog]

I figure next week will be heavy with rumors, whispers, grainy screen grabs and all the other things that accompany a new release. This week has just been a taste to get everyone in a twitter. Just relax.. the 25th will be here before you know it.

Go geek out at the new star trek movie this week and get a bit of painting done during your free time. Maybe watch an episode or 2 of Cosmos and hang out with friends :)

[StarWarsDoug]

I had an itch like someone was talking about me. ;)

I am sorry I don't have anything new for yall. I've been trying to get whatever I can, but it's extremely quiet.

I get why some people are both immature and demanding on the web, and it occasionally rankles me. But never for long. I hope to start seeing all the fancy wraith bone infused images soon, just like everyone else here.

Cheers.

[Mkvenner]

I had an itch like someone was talking about me. ;)

I am sorry I don't have anything new for yall. I've been trying to get whatever I can, but it's extremely quiet.

I get why some people are both immature and demanding on the web, and it occasionally rankles me. But never for long. I hope to start seeing all the fancy wraith bone infused images soon, just like everyone else here.

Cheers.

It's nothing personal. I promise. Hell, I'd buy you a pint just because (Question is dark or light). You have some mighty powerful dedication and that is more important to me than the rumours.

[Zachar]

It is a week to preorder and we have nothing, no pictures, some wishlist regarding shuri weapons and shred-rumour. Man I am sure missing natfka...

[eldargal]

Well next week is the usual week for leaks, so hopefully we will see some soon. We seldom get pictures or reliable rules rumours prior to the week leading up to pre-orders. Even then most rules rumours are fiction until the day after pre-orders go up and peopel get early copies.

[Zachar]

Before daemons we have had some reliable rumours 2-3 weeks before, I remember because it is my second army, same with TAU, rumour about Riptide and his generator that proved true. Now, we have rumours about big warith and that he supouse to have some better wariant of lance ...

[Chosen One]

And Dark Angels there have been WD leaks with lots of pics very early... And now Eldar... seems to be nothing... Is it just because Faeit is down? No early WD?

[Andersp90]

I had an itch like someone was talking about me. ;)

I am sorry I don't have anything new for yall. I've been trying to get whatever I can, but it's extremely quiet.

I get why some people are both immature and demanding on the web, and it occasionally rankles me. But never for long. I hope to start seeing all the fancy wraith bone infused images soon, just like everyone else here.

Cheers.

Keep up the good work. :)

[Mr Mystery]

And Dark Angels there have been WD leaks with lots of pics very early... And now Eldar... seems to be nothing... Is it just because Faeit is down? No early WD?

Could be. Could also be GW applying the thumbscrews to those who blab early. Leads to sacking for GW staff, and if its a supplier, I guess the same is possible.

[Wolfshade]

Could be. Could also be GW applying the thumbscrews to those who blab early. Leads to sacking for GW staff, and if its a supplier, I guess the same is possible.

IIRC wasn't it part of GWs licence deal with New Line Cinema that they had to "seal" the rumour mill with the Hobbit release?

[Defenestratus]

Must have struck a nerve on that one. Apparently the meaning of preference is lost on you. Just because I 'prefer' something doesn't mean I refuse to get my hands dirty and make the most of what is given.

Way to fire off the handle. Especially from a fellow Floridian. Whew.

No nerve struck. I just don't mince words when it comes to calling out ungrateful brats.

[IronZOGZ]

I just like the rumour mill because it gets me through the day at work.

Which is to say - I only appreciate when people have some advance information. Unless it is obvious speculation posted as rumour - BoK (not their fault, just quoted out of context) - it's always welcome here for most of us.

Please keep the info flowing! There is someone to appreciate is!

[Tyrendian]

something I wonder: if the rumors about the Wraith Knight prove true, what will GW do with the Wraith Lord? I can't really imagine the Knight being much tougher than a Riptide - maybe give it T7 to be on par with C'Tan, justified with it having no pilot to be killed, but GW seems to have abandoned T8 alltogether. But then what does that leave the Wraith Lord with? Wraithguard already have T6... Also, they might have to rename it... since having a Knight be waay better than a Lord just feels wrong... maybe just swap the names? But then the association with (Imperial) Knights is lost... hmmm...

[Eldur]

I see how anxiety for new rumours get some people angry here... Instead of the rumour-hooray/no rumour-yaaawn childish behavior I prefer some chat about how the new codex could be

For example, looking at Incubi I expect that Phill changes aspect warrior atributes between temples. WS 5, 2 A and there you have a combat specialist. Imagine BS4 guardians and BS5 avengers. No need for guide to get things done!

Its not that crazy... The differences between kabalists and guardians would be WS and I. And now they're already 1 point cost away..
And for aspects, you'd be paying for superior trained troops that lack resistance and armourvin exchange.

Wrauihknight? T10 3+ save hehehe..

[DrLove42]

something I wonder: if the rumors about the Wraith Knight prove true, what will GW do with the Wraith Lord? I can't really imagine the Knight being much tougher than a Riptide - maybe give it T7 to be on par with C'Tan, justified with it having no pilot to be killed, but GW seems to have abandoned T8 alltogether. But then what does that leave the Wraith Lord with? Wraithguard already have T6... Also, they might have to rename it... since having a Knight be waay better than a Lord just feels wrong... maybe just swap the names? But then the association with (Imperial) Knights is lost... hmmm...

The Talos is T7. So at their lowest I can see WL being T7, the big beasty being 8

[Tyrendian]

hm... two points more toughness than a Riptide though? I'd rather expect Guard being T5, Lords T6 and Knights T7... hopefully with some sort of invuln save! Oh, and immunity to poison or something, like the Tomb Stalker has... poisoning a solid block of wraithbone is just stupid... although that particular argument could easily be made for C'Tan or Daemons as well...

[Andersp90]

hm... two points more toughness than a Riptide though? I'd rather expect Guard being T5, Lords T6 and Knights T7... hopefully with some sort of invuln save! Oh, and immunity to poison or something, like the Tomb Stalker has... poisoning a solid block of wraithbone is just stupid... although that particular argument could easily be made for C'Tan or Daemons as well...

Hive fleet kraken infected the wraithbone of craftworld Iyanden. :)

[Tyrendian]

it did? OK learned something new for the day :)

[Andersp90]

it did? OK learned something new for the day :)

You used to be able to read the story on GW's homepage under the tyranid army catagory (where you could also find painting guides etc.).

I dont understand why the removed all of it. :/

[bfmusashi]

Wraithbone has really weird 'rules' in the background information. It's simultaneously warp conductive and insulated, can be infiltrated by daemons, is susceptible to biological contamination, regrows to its manufactured shape when damaged, and nearly immune to entropy.

[DrLove42]

Its also a pyschoreactive plastic than can be conjured out of pure thought by singing.

I want rules for Bonesingers in the codex....every army gets a "tech priest" why can't we have ours?

[Jacob29]

Wrauihknight? T10 3+ save hehehe..

Oh please god no.

How hard I will rage when my friends Deathmarks wound it on a 2+... get 3/4 rends and RIP in piece T10 MC.



I know this is wish listing but I really want them to change some of the aspect models... well not even the model, but add a god dang spinneret rifle to the box. It suck's not having a model for something when you can't make your own very well.

[Mr Mystery]

Its also a pyschoreactive plastic than can be conjured out of pure thought by singing.

I want rules for Bonesingers in the codex....every army gets a "tech priest" why can't we have ours?

That would be cool. Plus, last edition army box has a LE Bonesinger, which suggests such a unit has been play tested to some extent....

[Fortunato]

IIRC, in the back of the 3rd Edition rulebook there are stats for a Bonesinger. They've had the idea for a long time, but haven't introduced it into the rules yet. It will be interesting to see if it makes it into this edition.

[bfmusashi]

It would make me turbo amped about the edition.

[Eldar_Atog]

My opinion is that the toughness of the wraithlord will stay the same. This wraith knight could also have toughness 8 with just more wounds and a better save(or invuln save) to represent it being bigger and stronger than the lord.

It would be depressing to not hear people fuss about the wraithlord being toughness 8. I've heard it for so long that it has become part of the game to me :)

[IronZOGZ]

No invulnerable save and a 3+ base save make it pretty easy to take out with focused fire. People who have played against mine more than once don't complain about it anymore.

[DrLove42]

Its always seemed to me that Wraithlords may as well not have a save.

The things that can reliably hurt them (missiles, lances, lascannons, melta etc) all ignore it due to AP

The mid stuff like Assault Cannons are rending when they can wound (whoops no save)

Its just the pitterpatter of poison you get a save. Before DE I almost forgot that they even had a save!


I'm hoping with GW trends the Wraithlord will get new life. Everyone knows the rules for new models are a little better than they should be, so with a new giant Wraith, and Wraithguard, hopefully middle brother will be decent too

[Eldar_Atog]

Since my lord usually has the only bright lance in the army, he lurks in cover. I can't imagine having him charge across the table right now... he'd be dead after one shooting phase :(

[Mkvenner]

Its always seemed to me that Wraithlords may as well not have a save.

The things that can reliably hurt them (missiles, lances, lascannons, melta etc) all ignore it due to AP

The mid stuff like Assault Cannons are rending when they can wound (whoops no save)

Its just the pitterpatter of poison you get a save. Before DE I almost forgot that they even had a save!


From the firing end, I could agree with that. Only getting armor saves when there are wounds from Lootas, Poison DEldar weapons, and other high Str high AP makes it easily forgetful.


Here's hoping the Wraithknight can be hidden behind Wraithlords for some cover (Wraithguard in front of the Lords). It'll be a Wraith-construct Conga line.

[Tyrendian]

that's one hefty price tag just for a BL though... I usually have mine just walk forward and soak what fire he can... which currently isn't all that much - they really need an invuln... curious to see where Phil goes with this! (and the rest of the stuff ofc...)

[Andersp90]

It would make me turbo amped about the edition.


It would be pretty cool, yes.

But only if they are actually usefull.

The current techmarines are pretty "meh' imho.

[Power Klawz]

Make their repair ability a psychic power you need to test for, but that automagically repairs damage/hull points/wounds on wraith units.

Probably won't happen since I don't think they're going to have any unit specific non-randomly-generated psychic powers in 6th (which is going to make grey knights really weird when they get an update.) and its a bit too specific to be an eldar lore primaris power unless you somehow expand it to effect all troop types (say by buffing armor or something) in which case it would be ridiculously overpowered and would still not exist.

Bleh, anyways bonesingers as techpriest/wraith buffing doodz would rule and I am sad we probably won't see it this edition.

[Mr Mystery]

Making Bonesingers a Wraithguard upgrade makes sense. Perhaps gives them Fnp, and means they ignore wraith sight.

[Sonikgav]

Arent Carnifex/Tervigons both T6 Monstrous Creatures? One just has more wounds to represent the difference? Do the same with Wraithlords and WraithKnights. Give the Lord 4 Wounds, Give the the Knight 6.

On the subject of their saves Id also say give them FNP instead of an Inv. It suits the background better being living automatons (to the point i think FNP could be a 'Wraith' standard), and since FNP is only ignored by Instant Death these days they dont have to worry about High Strength weapons so if anything, FNP is better for them than an Inv because against small arms they get their Armor and FNP instead of one or the other.

Lord can keep his standard 3+, give the Knight a 2+ with FNP and a small points increase i dont think that will be too shabby.

[Eldar_Atog]

Probably won't happen since I don't think they're going to have any unit specific non-randomly-generated psychic powers in 6th

Perhaps they will combine the roles of the Spirit Seer and Bone Singer. The Bone Singer model is such a cool model... it's a shame that it doesn't have rules in the current codex.

That's also why I keep wondering what they will do with the Shadow Seer and Veil of Tears. As you mention, GW seems to be wanting to get away from static psyker powers. If they don't change him, then they have created an exception to the rule(excluding codexes that were printed before 6th edition).

I'd love to see a school of Harliquin psker abilities. Perhaps with Veil as the primaris power and 2 or 3 other off the wall abilities :)

[Mr Mystery]

I know it's kind of apples-oranges, but set powers appear in Fantasy, generally as bound spells, like a Warrior Priest's prayers. Come with a set of three of them.

[Power Klawz]

Yeah I think that bound spells are the obvious analogue here, but I haven't seen anything directly comparable in sixth yet. Maybe things like Ethereal buffs? Guess that's sort of a precedent. Hurrrmmm

Also yeah, combining spirit seers and bonesingers into a single multi-purpose vehicle/wraith support characters would be rather amazeballs.

[Andersp90]

give the Knight a 2+ with FNP and a small points increase i dont think that will be too shabby.

T8 with 2+, FNP and 6 wounds?

No way. :)

[bfmusashi]

Other than Mind Worm or whatever the Dark Angel psyker character has I can't think of a set psykic power in a 6th ed. book.

[Kyban]

Two out of three books have been chaos though...:p

[Mr Mystery]

They're pretty rare in Fantasy.

And they do suit Eldar. Farseer's are far more potent than Warlocks, and thus have a wider selection of powers.

Since 3rd Ed Warlocks have played a supporting role, so bound spell equivalents seem very them.

[DarkLink]

Probably won't happen since I don't think they're going to have any unit specific non-randomly-generated psychic powers in 6th (which is going to make grey knights really weird when they get an update.)

Play against pure Thousand Sons sometime. It's hilarious how stupid the random psychic powers are. My buddy who plays literally carries around a mini-whiteboard so he can write down all of his psychic powers (and Chaos gifts, because RANDOM IZ SOOO COOOLLLL!!!). I need to convince him to play with Daemon allies, so that he'll have even more random crap to waste time rolling for when he could be actually playing the game instead. Plus, Horrors are terrible now.

[Sonikgav]

T8 with 2+, FNP and 6 wounds?

No way. :)

Yeah thats probably a bit much. Maybe 5 wounds but consider thats not much difference from a Riptide. It has higher Toughness but lower mobility, same basic saves though as ive said, FNP is slightly better than an INV though a Rip can boost its Inv etc.

Theres possibilities all around. Another would be that there is no new unit and that theyre just elevating Wraithlords with a whole new model already.

[Tyrendian]

that might be the case as well... but wouldn't that be the third wraithlord model in three consecutive editions of the codex?

[Eldar_Atog]

Other than Mind Worm or whatever the Dark Angel psyker character has I can't think of a set psykic power in a 6th ed. book.

Oh, I didn't know about the Dark Angel psyker. I've played against them in sixth edition but it's always a heavy terminator list with no psykers that I am aware of.

It's just an interesting puzzle to me about which they would do. Do they break their Psyker formatting rule or do they give the Shadow Seer different rules in the Eldar, Dark Eldar books? They seem loathe to do either option

Just something to ponder as we wait for next week :)

[Archon Charybdis]

And they do suit Eldar. Farseer's are far more potent than Warlocks, and thus have a wider selection of powers.

Mr. Mystery agreeing with a bit of Eldar wishlisting? Well tickle my something-something-cooky-colloquialism!

[Tyrendian]

Mr. Mystery agreeing with a bit of Eldar wishlisting? Well tickle my something-something-cooky-colloquialism!

wasn't it rumored that Eldar get their own psychic table which focuses mainly on damage, which is usable by warlocks and farseers, with the support/enhancement side of farseers being covered by divination?

[Eldar_Atog]

wasn't it rumored that Eldar get their own psychic table which focuses mainly on damage, which is usable by warlocks and farseers, with the support/enhancement side of farseers being covered by divination?

Yeah, there was a rumor about the Farseers having a witchfire table. I just can't see Farseers and Warlocks using the same table. They usually get described as being on different paths. My opinion is that they will each have access to a speciality school and one or more of the standard schools.

[Tyrendian]

Yeah, there was a rumor about the Farseers having a witchfire table. I just can't see Farseers and Warlocks using the same table. They usually get described as being on different paths. My opinion is that they will each have access to a speciality school and one or more of the standard schools.

mh... as far as i can recall, they are the same path, with farseers just being those who decided to stay on that path forever (roughly like exarchs), so them having access to the same table is not completely out of the question... I could see separate tables too though, and I sure hope we keep at least something like Doom, if not the exact same power...

[Archon Charybdis]

mh... as far as i can recall, they are the same path, with farseers just being those who decided to stay on that path forever (roughly like exarchs), so them having access to the same table is not completely out of the question... I could see separate tables too though, and I sure hope we keep at least something like Doom, if not the exact same power...

No, Warlocks are specifically people on the path of the Seer who have previously been Aspect Warriors and have a War Mask. That aside, in practice there doesn't seem to be any fluff limitation on a Farseer's ability to use damaging powers if they were never a Warlock.

[Power Klawz]

I had forgotten about mind worm, but that's on a special character only, still haven't seen unique auto-generated psychic powers on vanilla units but mind worm does give one hope. I wouldn't doubt that Eldrad gets some form of uber-dickish ability unique to himself, because I mean lets face it that guy is a dick.

Spatial Distortion: Warp Charge 3

It turns out what your enemy though was up was actually down, or left was right, or time was jello. Whatever, you get to flip the board upside down after placing all of your units into reserves, any enemy unit that falls off the table counts as destroyed. SHOULD HAVE USED DOUBLE SIDED TAPE TURBONERD


My buddy who plays literally carries around a mini-whiteboard so he can write down all of his psychic powers (and Chaos gifts, because RANDOM IZ SOOO COOOLLLL!!!).

While I don't necessarily agree with you, I do find it pretty hilarious that one of those Tzeentch psychic powers actually gives you more chaos gifts. Its an endless loop of random haha.

[Tyrendian]

No, Warlocks are specifically people on the path of the Seer who have previously been Aspect Warriors and have a War Mask. That aside, in practice there doesn't seem to be any fluff limitation on a Farseer's ability to use damaging powers if they were never a Warlock.

well, Thirianna from the Paths series did have her War Mask, being a former DA, and I do assume the other Warlocks have one too - out of sheer necessity... going into battle without one is a singularly bad idea after all, especially for a psyker... But it is more or less explicitly stated as well that Farseers are guys/gals who got "stuck" on the Path of the Seer, later to turn to crystal. So... can one tread that path without a War Mask? I can't recall a reference to anything like "junior" Seers that are no Warlocks...

[Mr Mystery]

Mr. Mystery agreeing with a bit of Eldar wishlisting? Well tickle my something-something-cooky-colloquialism!

Hey, I'm not down on Eldar or their players. Just the serial whiners! Wanting more or less set psychic powers for Warlocks is very different to demanding S6, Ap1 armourfleshrendshredbane weapons for 5 points on a unit that makes TH/SS Terminators look like emanciated five year old girls! :p

[Warpspider89]

hm... two points more toughness than a Riptide though? I'd rather expect Guard being T5, Lords T6 and Knights T7... hopefully with some sort of invuln save! Oh, and immunity to poison or something, like the Tomb Stalker has... poisoning a solid block of wraithbone is just stupid... although that particular argument could easily be made for C'Tan or Daemons as well...

Why should a Tau battle suit be the benchmark that determines the characteristics of an eldar unit that has been around before the first tau codex even existed.

[Andersp90]

No, Warlocks are specifically people on the path of the Seer who have previously been Aspect Warriors and have a War Mask. That aside, in practice there doesn't seem to be any fluff limitation on a Farseer's ability to use damaging powers if they were never a Warlock.

No, Tyrendian is right.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Farseer


A Farseer is a former Warlock who has become lost on the Path of the Seer, much like the Exarchs who have become lost on the Path of the Warrior.


http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Warlock


Warlocks are Seers who have walked down the Path of the Warrior and it is their previous experience as warriors which allows them to control their destructive impulses in battle.[1] Their previous experience in combat allows them to develop their combative psychic powers.[3]


You could also go read your Eldar codex if you have one. :)

[Mr Mystery]

Wraithbone. A slightly rubbish material when you make a grav tank, titan or even Capital Ship several miles long. Suddenly well good when made into a skinny humanoid shape....

Never got that dichotomy.

[Koremu]

No, Tyrendian is right.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Farseer

That's not a primary source. Certainly in the second edition Eldar Codex, it was explicit that "Warlock" was only one of a number of sub-paths within "The Path of the Seer" (in the same way that each Warrior Aspect is a sub-path within the Path of the Warrior), and that a Farseer is any Eldar who has become lost upon the Path of the Seer.

Warlock is in some respects more like Autarchs - their path is affected by previous paths they have studied in life. In this case, Warlocks are Seers who have previously chosen to tread the Path of the Warrior.

[DarkLink]

While I don't necessarily agree with you, I do find it pretty hilarious that one of those Tzeentch psychic powers actually gives you more chaos gifts. Its an endless loop of random haha.

Just to be clear, I was being sarcastic about random tables and gifts and warpstorms being cool. Every once in a while something cool happens (Cultist got lucky and killed a Dreadknight, and turned into a Deamon Prince or something, I forget exactly what and I'm not even sure if that's possible), but most of the time it's just a massive pain in the neck.

[Archon Charybdis]

Hey, I'm not down on Eldar or their players. Just the serial whiners!

Fair enough, and you can at least understand why Eldar players in particular might be more upset or at least have more to lose than others at the prospect of random powers, right? As long as I've played them, Eldar have been an army centered on the Farseer as a force multiplier (outside of the fairly rare Farseer-free build). Partly it was as a crutch for mediocre units, but it is very fluffy and gives the army an interesting theme as the buff/debuff army. The Farseer as a lynchpin of your army design and battle plan is pretty integral to the Eldar army identity and effectiveness, and a lot of people are concerned if that changes the army may be the worse off for it--left bland and mechanically not unique.

[bfmusashi]

That's not a primary source. Certainly in the second edition Eldar Codex, it was explicit that "Warlock" was only one of a number of sub-paths within "The Path of the Seer" (in the same way that each Warrior Aspect is a sub-path within the Path of the Warrior), and that a Farseer is any Eldar who has become lost upon the Path of the Seer.

Warlock is in some respects more like Autarchs - their path is affected by previous paths they have studied in life. In this case, Warlocks are Seers who have previously chosen to tread the Path of the Warrior.
That's what the quote said....

[Koremu]

That's what the quote said....

No, the quote said all Farseers were former Warlocks, which is not necessarily the case.

All Farseers are Seers who are lost on the path, but not all were ever Aspect Warriors (or, if they were, necessarily became Warlocks).

There are other forms of Seers than just Warlock, is the point.

[Archon Charybdis]

So... can one tread that path without a War Mask? I can't recall a reference to anything like "junior" Seers that are no Warlocks...

They talk about it I believe in Path of the Seer (maybe Outcast). There's a scene where the Seers are overseering (ha-HAH!) the battle on the Craftworld and they note the differences between those Seers with their War Masks and those without.


No, Tyrendian is right.

You could also go read your Eldar codex if you have one. :)

You might take your own advice. Nothing in the Farseer entry references being a Warlock, and the Warlock path specifically describes itself as only one of (and the most war-like of) the Witch Paths. As Koremu kindly pointed out, Farseer is to Path of the Seer as Exarch is to Path of the Warrior--anybody on the Seer path (including but not limited to Warlocks) that becomes trapped on the Path is a Farseer.

[Power Klawz]

I understood your sarcasm. I just don't think that random tables are the devil. They don't really slow the game down that much either. They can be very annoying though, but it does add an element of surprise and anticipation that I find enjoyable. Chaos gifts in particular can led to some interesting results, like unit champions taking becoming challenge monsters by the end of the game, unfortunately its pretty hard to stack really great gifts in the course of a single game because you have to first win challenges and not die, and then get lucky enough to roll well on the table. The odds of your aspiring champ coming out with, say, initiative 6 and 4 attacks are slim to none.

Really that list could have been narrowed down to a d6. Make 5 of those 6 something good that affects close combat (because that's all you really care about when you are a chaos marine, don't front.) and one that does nothing. Remove the spawn and DP transformations entirely because they really serve no purpose. You could leave the DP and spawn things in if you really wanted to I guess, could still accomplish it on a single d6 with rerolls perhaps. Maybe something like this.

1: Unworthy offering, you receive no bonuses, in addition roll another d6, if the result is a further 1the character turns into chaos spawn
2: Eye of the gods: you receive +1 initiative
3: Strength of the gods: you receive +1 strength
4: Flesh of the gods: you receive +1 toughness
5: Speed of the gods: You receive +1 attack
6: Favor of the gods: Choose a gift of your choice and roll again on this table. Disregard second rolls of 1, if you roll a second 6 your character is transformed into a daemon prince.

This gives you mostly good things, and only slightly higher than a 5% chance to either become spawn or a daemon prince.

also let both spawn and princes keep all their accumulated gifts, and let princes keep their wargear. Ha ha, man that'd be sort of broken.

[Andersp90]

You might take your own advice. Nothing in the Farseer entry references being a Warlock, and the Warlock path specifically describes itself as only one of (and the most war-like of) the Witch Paths. As Koremu kindly pointed out, Farseer is to Path of the Seer as Exarch is to Path of the Warrior--anybody on the Seer path (including but not limited to Warlocks) that becomes trapped on the Path is a Farseer.

I diden't say anything about the farseer entry.

An Eldar can only access his destructive psychic powers, if he has walked the path of the warrior (page 27 of the Eldar codex, warlock entry).

There is no denying that source...

Nor this one:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1160110a


So powerful is a Farseer that he can obliterate an enemy leader's mind or hurl a tank into the air. In battle, these powerful spell-casters will often be accompanied by Warlocks, who act as bodyguards and advisors to the Farseer. At some point in their lifetime they have all walked the Path of the Warrior, making them a fearsome combination of warrior and psychic, a combination that few enemy psykers can hope to best.

[Archon Charybdis]

An Eldar can only access his destructive psychic powers, if he has walked the path of the warrior (page 27 of the Eldar codex, warlock entry).

The relevant bit of text, that you conveniently didn't include, is not nearly so specific: "...it is their previous experience as warriors that enable [Warlocks] to harness their destructive impulses in battle." It's talking specifically about the Warlocks and the means by which they control their "destructive impulses", not all Seers. It's a stretch to cantilever that out to mean "All Seers must have been Warlocks to use destructive powers." It's entirely possible through other efforts of mental discipline and the use of Runes even a Seer without a War Mask could make use of the more destructive psychic powers. Besides, even if we grant the claim that only a former Warlock can use his powers destructively it does nothing to help your argument that all Farseers were once Warlocks--all that would follow from that is that only former-Warlock Farseers can use Mind War and Eldritch Storm.

The Warlock entry explicitly points out that there are multiple forms of the Witch Path, of which it is only one, just like the Path of the Warrior. The Farseer entry describes itself as the end result of any Seer, which is a general term and not Warlock specific (much like Aspect Warrior versus Dire Avenger), who stays on the path too long. I've already pointed to examples in the background that make a demarcation between Farseers with War Masks and those without and I'll be happy to find the exact page number when I get a chance. Farseers are not all former Warlocks.

[Andersp90]

I've already pointed to examples in the background that make a demarcation between Farseers with War Masks and those without and I'll be happy to find the exact page number when I get a chance. Farseers are not all former Warlocks.

Just odd that it is stated in the farseer entry on the official GW page then?

- nor do I understand how a farseer can have WS5 if he has never used a sword before. ;)

Plz do tell me the page number so I can have a look. :)

[Archon Charybdis]

First, I'm not sure that webpage advertisement is really admissible canon. Second, the only plural antecedent noun in this passage for "their" to refer to is Warlocks. The sentence "At some point in their lifetime they have all walked the Path of the Warrior, making them a fearsome combination of warrior and psychic, a combination that few enemy psykers can hope to best" is talking about Warlocks.

[bfmusashi]

I'd take the website advert over Black Library. :p

[Eldar_Atog]

Just odd that it is stated in the farseer entry on the official GW page then?

Plz do tell me the page number so I can have a look. :)

Page 27 of the 4th edition Eldar codex, first sentence

"The most aggressive and warlike of all the Witch Paths is that of the Warlock." The next sentence goes on to describe how Warlocks are seers that used to walk to walk the Path of the Warrior. It also mentions that Warlocks must return to their aspect shrines to retrieve their helmets before battle.

The 2nd edition Eldar book also mentions in the Warlock section that they have walked the way of the warrior.

To me, it sounds like a Warlock that lingers on the Witch path will become a Farseer but not all Farseers were Warlocks. It is a bit of a reach though. Warlocks are never mentioned in the Farseer entry of the 4th edition codex.

[Archon Charybdis]

I'd take the website advert over Black Library. :p

Even if we don't take BL as canon, we're still left with the Warlock entry talking about being one of many types of Seer, and the Farseer being what happens when a Seer (no specific mention of Warlock) gets trapped on the path. I don't know how it could be more clear cut than that. But as far as the BL novels, the Path series was written by Gav Thorpe who wrote two Eldar codices. I think it's reasonable to say his take on it is fairly canon.

[Eldar_Atog]

But as far as the BL novels, the Path series was written by Gav Thorpe who wrote two Eldar codices. I think it's reasonable to say his take on it is fairly canon.

I don't have a 1st edition Eldar codex. Did Gav Thorpe write that one too?

Rick Priestley wrote the 2nd edition book. Gav had the 3rd edition book and Phil Kelly did the 4th edition book.

I agree that Gav Thorpe has probably contributed more to the Eldar fluff than any of the other BL writers. When I read his Path books, I felt like I was reading an Eldar book. When I read Goto's Eldar Prophecy, I felt like I was reading a story by someone who had never done more than looked at Army Builder to get the names of the Eldar units.