Space Marines Rumor Roundup

[Psychosplodge]

Where are the pics DL? Are they on GW yet?

[MajorWesJanson]

More important than all this, which ltd edition codex you guys going to get, me I think it's going to be either Iron Hands or Crimson Fists. Ultramarine one looks pretty too ;)

I like the Iron Hands and Salamanders LE codex, but my limited funds mean I will get a normal book and box of sternguard instead.


I am not even going to get into the whole SoB thing... :)

Just because I've been away from this thread for a couple of days and haven't caught up I have a quick BT question.

In the current Black Templar Codex Chaplains can be added to command squads without taking up an HQ slot. Have we now lost this ability?

It just means that if I take an Emperor's Champion and a Captain I can't take a Chaplain as they now use up a HQ slot. :(

Likely yes, as Marines have all lots that ability since 4th edition.

[Deadlift]

Where are the pics DL? Are they on GW yet?

Go back a couple pages, I posted the pics from 3++

[Psychosplodge]

Cheers. Not really followed this properly, it grows too fast...

[chicop76]

And that's why they should hit Ward with a heavy object everytime he thinks of writing fluff...

I hate ward. I miss my old sisters with +2 invulnerable saves.

[MajorWesJanson]

I hate ward. I miss my old sisters with +2 invulnerable saves.

Cruddace wrote the Sisters rules, Ward did the fluff.

[chicop76]

Cruddace wrote the Sisters rules, Ward did the fluff.

I hate them both. I just hate Ward the most. I miss my rending flamers, my I5-I7 sisters, or my strength 8 eviserators

Man I miss the old sisters. I miss my old Inquisitor squads that can re roll to hit and all bs 4 with all plasma rifles.

[Wildeybeast]

More important than all this, which ltd edition codex you guys going to get, me I think it's going to be either Iron Hands or Crimson Fists. Ultramarine one looks pretty too ;)

If they are twenty quid more expensive than the standard edition, then none of them. I love my RG and I'm a sucker for limited edition stuff, but even I draw the line at £20 for a different cover.

[magickbk]

Keep in mind that the Sisters of Battle existed in story and artwork as far back as Rogue Trader, and were a fan favorite as far as getting models and an army for them. Black Templars were created as the new cover art and focus of the 3rd Edition boxed set. As angry as I would be if one of my armies got folded into another Codex, keep in mind that they didn't get Squatted, and they could still regain additional army rules such as vows in a Supplement later on. As far as the Sisters, their function in story and game is very much different than Marines, although the Black Templars were later added to create a similarly zealous Marine chapter that had game design elements similar to Fantasy Bretonnians.

[harveydent]

that first pic looks like the dude is wearing a suit of wet cardboard

[maloysius]

that first pic looks like the dude is wearing a suit of wet cardboard


The first one isn't done yet. I forget where I read it, but the same guy did both of them, and wet cardboard is in its early stages. I thought it looked like **** to til I realized it was still a work in progress. Especially considering how nice the other one is we should be ok.

[Xarga]

I'll just leave these right here.

4730
Kor Phaeron


4729
Erebus


4731
Marine Artwork

I believe the first 2 images are the next set of FW heresy characters. Loving that Imperial Fists/Ultramarine artwork though :)

[Cpt Codpiece]

even a WIP, kor pheron looks a little Jeremy beadle like (uk folks over 25 will know what i mean....... come on give him a big hand.... oh dear), that right claw looks like there is no upper arm, just a claw on the shoulder.

his suit looks tasty though.

we all saw erebus a few months back fom the FW open, very nice work there...... i feel for all those who bought GW's sad excuse for a dark apostle :)

[DrBored]

I wonder.. if you take the Raven Guard Chapter Tactic and have a Land Raider filled with Terminators.. since Terminators have the 'Bulky' special rule, can you not Scout the Land Raider?

[MajorWesJanson]

even a WIP, kor pheron looks a little Jeremy beadle like (uk folks over 25 will know what i mean....... come on give him a big hand.... oh dear), that right claw looks like there is no upper arm, just a claw on the shoulder.

his suit looks tasty though.

we all saw erebus a few months back fom the FW open, very nice work there...... i feel for all those who bought GW's sad excuse for a dark apostle :)

The arm is wierd looking because it is bent at the elbow, and the magazine page curves making it look distorted.

[DarkLink]

Since the Terminators are bulky, they wouldn't get Scout to transfer to their LR. Personally, I'm just sad I can't take dedicated Land Raiders for my Paladins for basically this reason.

[Mr Mystery]

Clearly Sisters of Battle should have a 1 in 4 chance of all getting 'Furious Charge' at the start of the game, to accurately represent that when women spend time together, they all tend to 'fall to the communists' at the same time.

Likewise, any SoB vehicle attempting to drive in any direction other than straight forwards should be forced to take a dangerous terrain test?

[Steven Palmer]

Hmmmm Lysander and Calgar bashing Chaos-Only one thing pops to mind XD http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRHU3suf-MA

[Xarga]

One way or another this Sisters debate is irrelevant to the thread. So has anyone come up with any interesting combinations from the mentioned rumors?

[chicop76]

One way or another this Sisters debate is irrelevant to the thread. So has anyone come up with any interesting combinations from the mentioned rumors?

I thought sisters was female Marines. Personally I would like Marines to have the same love Witchhunters received. However I am happy that we can now be glad one Marine dex has bought the dust, not like I played against Black Templars a lot. However I do play against them more than orcs and dark angels, and nids.

I would do flips if Blood Angels which used to be a codex like how the sisters are now was a suppliment. Honesly it would make sense to have one core Marine book and just make suppliments for all the marine chapters.

I can live with a space wolf and a grey knight codex tough. Just both angel books and templars should had been suppliments.

[BloodFUSE]

Anyone seen a price point on the LE codices/codexes? Sorry if this has been posted and I missed it.

[DarkLink]

I know Centurions with Grav Cannons will absolutely murder stuff dead. About the only thing that isn't afraid of a unit of 3-4 is Guardsmen blobs/artillery behind an Aegis Defense Line, and vehicles with really, really good cover saves.

[h20tor]

$115 is the special editions

[Marionette]

$115 is the special editions

Any idea about the UK price?

[Heritor]

Did Templars have two previous codices and offer something unique? No, they were another variety of Marines with one codex that was basically a remix of the rules they got in one of the campaign books I think it was.

You must have never read the DA, Blood Angel, and Space Wolves Codexes. If you had then you would have seen that Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and DA were all just Codex Space Marine with a unit here or there, especially the DA and Blood Angels. BA's defining feature was the Death Company and Baal predators... DA had Stubborn and more plasma with only the Space Wolves having enough difference to being. If you played DA the only way to be "different" then Space Marine in third was to take a DW list or a RW list other then that you were playing normal marines with a banner that let one dude shoot a plasma gun before getting charged.

Black Templar in third made a HUGE impact. People hated that they could break from combat and charge another squad essentially just bouncing around from close combat to close combat. They were also the only faction with a Land Raider and all their troops could be close combat. 4th Edition launches Black Templar are introduced as are Space Marine the design of the Templar follow along the lines of what they did in the past. Special rules but no unit differentiation other then Crusader Squads, Emperor's Champion, and Special Characters. Templar lose the exclusivity of the Land Raider Crusader which was something only they and Grey Knights had. BA and Space Wolves are untouched for an entire edition.

Dark Angels are launched on the tale end of 4th ed and are given combat squads, lose stubborn, and they can still build the DW and RW List. 5th ed Space Marine launches and can do EVERYTHING the DA can.... and more. Nothing the DA has the Space Marines can't have too and only Special Characters differentiate two. At that point in 5th only BA, BT, and Space Wolves can claim uniqueness because BT has Crusader Squads/EC/Rites of Battle/Vows/Righteous Zeal, the BA have Death Company/BAAL/Sanguinary Guard, and Space Wolves are Space Wolves. 6th is the only edition that the DA actually have completely different units then Codex Space Marines.

[Deadlift]

Any idea about the UK price?

£50 I suspect

[Xarga]

£50 I suspect

Weren't the previous LE's for other codex's £60? Also $115 = £74 but they'll probably make it £75 for an LE. As for the standard dex i expect anywhere from £5-10 more than a regular dex due to they extra 70 odd pages.

[Proteus]

Sorry if this was allready discussed, but its a large thread.

I really like almost everything we've seen so far rules-wise, about this release. Especially the emphasis on the chapter traits, which are both fluffy and adding to the gameplay. One thing however that I found strange is the complete lack of any general, leadership affecting rules (like "stubborn" for Fist, for example). At first I thought this applied only to chapter traits, but according to latest roumors, this seems like a general theme across the book, with special characters loosing any leadership boosting perks (Sicarius no longer has "Rites of War", Calgar's "God of War" is now about something different that leadership, Lysander doesn't confer "Stubborn").

Do You have any idea, why this made sense for GW, from a codex building perspective?

[Xarga]

Sorry if this was allready discussed, but its a large thread.

I really like almost everything we've seen so far rules-wise, about this release. Especially the emphasis on the chapter traits, which are both fluffy and adding to the gameplay. One thing however that I found strange is the complete lack of any general, leadership affecting rules (like "stubborn" for Fist, for example). At first I thought this applied only to chapter traits, but according to latest roumors, this seems like a general theme across the book, with special characters loosing any leadership boosting perks (Sicarius no longer has "Rites of War", Calgar's "God of War" is now about something different that leadership, Lysander doesn't confer "Stubborn").

Do You have any idea, why this made sense for GW, from a codex building perspective?

My only speculation is to give something unique to Dark Angels over other marines. Seeing as DA's have Stubborn (and the never voluntarily fail a morale check thing) It would have just made Imperial Fists have the superior "chapter trait" as they had Stubborn without the negative side effect. Though having said that Lysander still has a leadership helpful ability, he allows all those with Chapter Tactics: Imperial Fists to re-roll failed morale and pinning tests. Perhaps Sicarius lost his trait as one of the new warlord traits now does the same thing?

[DarkLink]

Besides, you have ATSKNF, which is pretty much the best leadership rule in the game, roughly on par with Fearless. You don't need more leadership rules for the sake of leadership rules.

[Xarga]

Besides, you have ATSKNF, which is pretty much the best leadership rule in the game, roughly on par with Fearless. You don't need more leadership rules for the sake of leadership rules.

I wasn't really saying they needed them as such. More just my thoughts on some of the changes. Otherwise i agree, marines are already stalwart enough.

[Crewgar]

The ultimate expression of this, in a way, is the Codex Astartes. It is a one-stop guide for waging war but it can't allow for anything outside of its preconditions. Of course, it also serves to rein in the Space Marines, and so fits into the mood and trauma left behind in the wake of the Heresy.

Sorry love the rest of the post,, but being a Ultramarine player for years I've read every scrap I can about the Codex, and it's largely organisational.... While it covers tactics as well it's kind of a if you are in situation A and have X, Y and Z to this, but if you have V instead of Z do that. And if it's not covered, figure it out.... And also has provisions for not sticking to it all the time so the enemy can't just predict your actions if they know it... though that last point only gets brought up sometimes :)

Still totally love the thought behind the original post! :)

[punkrockpainting]

I get it I get it I get it! Its just crazy there are no blood angels, dark angels or space wolves on the covers. like I said I get it they have their own books but...

[Psychosplodge]

Weren't the previous LE's for other codex's £60? Also $115 = £74 but they'll probably make it £75 for an LE. As for the standard dex i expect anywhere from £5-10 more than a regular dex due to they extra 70 odd pages.

You're forgetting the dollar price is converted from pounds, so they convert it then decide it's too low and bump it up a bit....

[Roman Himmelhan]

Any word on what the supplement(s) will be yet?

I mean, i could live with my Blood Angels beeing a supplement only once more (3rd/4th Edition worked pretty well for me, and yes, i know the DC was pretty much OP back then), but i don't believe that GW would be able to condense their special flavour into something like 2 pages of rules.

I'm still hoping for the Blood Ravens getting more attention than just a pic of a painted miniature. And a supplement might be just the right place to introduce them. They are close enough to the codex to not need very much additional rules. Well, we won't get the answer to the question of their origins, it could be any of the thousand sons of the emperor of mankind...

Concerning the limited edition covers, i like the Ultramarines one best. Followed by the Salamanders. The others look pretty much like crap to me, sorry.

[RGilbert26]

Rumoured first supplement will be White Scars.

I prefer the normal codex cover art.

[DrBored]

Any word on what the supplement(s) will be yet?

I mean, i could live with my Blood Angels beeing a supplement only once more (3rd/4th Edition worked pretty well for me, and yes, i know the DC was pretty much OP back then), but i don't believe that GW would be able to condense their special flavour into something like 2 pages of rules.

I'm still hoping for the Blood Ravens getting more attention than just a pic of a painted miniature. And a supplement might be just the right place to introduce them. They are close enough to the codex to not need very much additional rules. Well, we won't get the answer to the question of their origins, it could be any of the thousand sons of the emperor of mankind...

Concerning the limited edition covers, i like the Ultramarines one best. Followed by the Salamanders. The others look pretty much like crap to me, sorry.

You're going to be left wanting there bud.

First off, Blood Angels didn't get rolled into this Codex, so it looks like you'll eventually get your own book again, so don't worry about them becoming a supplement. Yet.

Next, Blood Ravens are only popular in the video games, and don't have enough tabletop presence to warrant a supplement.

The supplements rumored are going to be the big First Founding chapters that don't have their own Codex. White Scars, Raven Guard, Imperial Fists, Iron Hands, Ultramarines, Salamanders, and then Black Templar as well. It'll start with White Scars in October, according to rumors.

Don't expect any other subsequent founding supplements beyond Black Templar.

[chicop76]

If the Grav cannon works on a models save what happens if the model have no save, would that mean the grav cannon can't wound.

Depending on how this new weapon pans out it makes me want to play my daemons more. Since the majority of daemons really do not have a save this system will fail to wound them. Thinking about it more my damons will do the dance of joy and laugh at the system.

That being said it can be a downer for wraithknights and riptides. Thankfully riptides have a range of 72" and hopefully can be out of range of such weapons. If not I can always deepstrike the riptides in.

However the more I here about these exo suit power armour guys the more I think I should target them with a vengence, unless I am playing Daemons which seems for the most part I could ignore them.

[Brakkart]

I prefer the normal codex cover art.

I feel the same way. My army is Imperial Fists and it is an okay cover pic, though quite why he seems to have half a skeleton hanging off one shoulder pad I don't know. Nice as it is, it's not worth an extra £20+ for it so I'll get the regular version.


Don't expect any other subsequent founding supplements beyond Black Templar.

I could see the Crimson Fists getting one at some point as they go way back to the Rogue Trader era and have a lot of background to them, plus a serious (and well deserved) hatred of Orks.

[Tyrendian]

also, what kind of rules would you want for Blood Ravens? Even they don't have enough Librarians to warrant something like the Iyanden Council, and there's not much else to distinguish them by... and there will probably be enough cool relic weapons in the supplements we do get to represent their inherent kleptomania... so just go with one of those...

[Galadren]

If the Grav cannon works on a models save what happens if the model have no save, would that mean the grav cannon can't wound.

Depending on how this new weapon pans out it makes me want to play my daemons more. Since the majority of daemons really do not have a save this system will fail to wound them. Thinking about it more my damons will do the dance of joy and laugh at the system.

That being said it can be a downer for wraithknights and riptides. Thankfully riptides have a range of 72" and hopefully can be out of range of such weapons. If not I can always deepstrike the riptides in.

However the more I here about these exo suit power armour guys the more I think I should target them with a vengence, unless I am playing Daemons which seems for the most part I could ignore them.

Grav cannons would just wound on a 6 in that case. Even so, next to useless.

[chicop76]

Grav cannons would just wound on a 6 in that case. Even so, next to useless.

In other words you saying the new space marine candy would be useless against all daemons, but the Thirster and any other Daemon with a 3+ save.

I think I will now drop my thristerfor sure and go with the LoC for sure now.

[kire]

Next, Blood Ravens are only popular in the video games, and don't have enough tabletop presence to warrant a supplement.


to be honest i have seen more blood ravens armies on the table (not counting my own) then iron hands. that being said i still think its a long shot as there are a lot of supplements that should get done before blood ravens. it all depends on how much of a cash cow the supplements are and in this case if we ever see a dawn of war 3.


also, what kind of rules would you want for Blood Ravens? Even they don't have enough Librarians to warrant something like the Iyanden Council, and there's not much else to distinguish them by... and there will probably be enough cool relic weapons in the supplements we do get to represent their inherent kleptomania... so just go with one of those...

remember video game blood ravens and in universe blood ravens are different. the only sources on blood ravens typically accepted as cannon are "index astartes" and the hints given in "a thousand sons". the blood ravens were created to be an out of universe chapter so relic couldn't mess up the lore, but GW liked the concept and created an in universe counterpart. however there are discrepancy between the two with plenty of stuff to make a chapter off.

in universe blood ravens
- have squads of librarians in there fist company (might be better to leave this in apocalypse)
- have librarians in command of some companies
- have chief librarian / chapter master duel roll
- have librarians (2-4 usually) assigned to individual companies rather than all in the librarium
- lots of librarians
- are all about divination
- crate meticulous battle plans
- steal chaos artifacts for study
- not kleptomaniacs (of imperial equipment)
- secretly summon daemon hosts for study before banishing them
- mysterious "fated" 5th company
- close relationship with adeptus mechanicus trading knowledge for equipment
- relationship includes joint operations and large numbers of servitors under command of librarians

you can make a supplement around that. they are at least as divergent as imperial fists and there getting a suplement

honestly its just a matter of how many GW thinks they will sell, lets not kid our selves about fairness in this prosess

[Galadren]

In other words you saying the new space marine candy would be useless against all daemons, but the Thirster and any other Daemon with a 3+ save.

I think I will now drop my thristerfor sure and go with the LoC for sure now.

If it works like they say it does, and wounds based on armor save, then probably.

[chicop76]

If it works like they say it does, and wounds based on armor save, then probably.

I hope so. My daemons will be happy. Grav cannon fires at my LoC and it just get tickled. I am interested if the weapon does work that way if the models have a secondary weapon. If not in the words of my 9 year old kid that would be messed up.

[nathaneal246]

I don't know why GW don't do some sort of internet poll asking who everyone wants to have a supplement! Whether certain chapters deserve a supplement shouldn't be an issue, it should be up to us who they make supplements for! I think they should just do supplements for the chapters that are most wanted by us, not what they think we want!

[Fanboy]

ROTFLOL, GW asking thier market/customers for insight/thoughts and ideas. This will never happen. GW makes the decisions in a boardroom, and when the final decisions are made they steamroll it out into the market. You either like the new idea/rule set/codex or you dont. If you dont, well then, wait till the next release. The only thing GW 'listens' too is the GW Stock price. Why do you think there was a sudden new SM codex release. SMs make up over 60% of ALL GW sales globally, and with the release of 6th Ed, and the new codices, the current/last SM codex was no longer competitive and current SM players were getting thier #rses kicked, and were no longer purchasing/spending money on the hobby. The risk of losing your main customer base, SM players, would be devastating for GW, and therefore, and suddenly, to everyones surprise,...presto, a new SM codex, and all other codices are moved back 6-8 months............

[nathaneal246]

Alright pal calm down, I understand its all about money because yeah that's what makes the world go round. At the end of the day though isn't knowing your customer base and knowing what they want part of making money! What's wrong with the thought that one day the might decide hey lets ask what are friends the customers want! Asking what they isn't running a risk of losing them! As you have clearly stated they don't care about that and if they make that much money off SM wheres the harm in asking!

You just took what I said way to seriously, a pinch of salt pal, a pinch of salt!

[Xarga]

ROTFLOL, GW asking thier market/customers for insight/thoughts and ideas. This will never happen. GW makes the decisions in a boardroom, and when the final decisions are made they steamroll it out into the market. You either like the new idea/rule set/codex or you dont. If you dont, well then, wait till the next release. The only thing GW 'listens' too is the GW Stock price. Why do you think there was a sudden new SM codex release. SMs make up over 60% of ALL GW sales globally, and with the release of 6th Ed, and the new codices, the current/last SM codex was no longer competitive and current SM players were getting thier #rses kicked, and were no longer purchasing/spending money on the hobby. The risk of losing your main customer base, SM players, would be devastating for GW, and therefore, and suddenly, to everyones surprise,...presto, a new SM codex, and all other codices are moved back 6-8 months............

Well it's not quite sudden, we've had a ptretty good idea Space Marines were coming out in this window for around 5-6 months now. The decision was probably made even earlier than that. I'm sure GW already have planned out the order of all the codex releases.

[Fanboy]

Alright pal calm down, I understand its all about money because yeah that's what makes the world go round. At the end of the day though isn't knowing your customer base and knowing what they want part of making money! What's wrong with the thought that one day the might decide hey lets ask what are friends the customers want! Asking what they isn't running a risk of losing them! As you have clearly stated they don't care about that and if they make that much money off SM wheres the harm in asking!

You just took what I said way to seriously, a pinch of salt pal, a pinch of salt!

Correct, maybe I did. I have been playing 40k since 1989, and just the game, the fluff and the minis. Its just that GW sometimes makes decisions that I find hard to believe, and in all the years I have played, they never 'asked' their customers/gamers their thoughts. I love the hobby, and maybe its people like me that keep the company going, because there are too many hardcore lovers of the 40k universe/fluff, and 'we' will never wonder too far away, even during those 'bad' years/rule sets, knowing that we will purchase a few minis here and there because they/GW still are the best quality minis out there. We will eventually return when a 'better' rule set/codex is released. Currently a group of us are not overly impressed with the 6th Ed rules (Flyers have unbalanced the game, HtH is shocking/poor, and some of the general rules are just not that great, so while not playing many 6th Ed games (we are waiting for 7th Ed), we have decided to revert back to playing 4th Ed games. Not the best rule set either, but better than 6th ed, easier to use, and demnocratically voted for by the 12 gamers in our local club. I love this hobby, but GW really p#sses me off sometimes, and hence the reason why I take things a little too eriously some times.....sorry about that.:)

[nathaneal246]

No worries pal, I mainly collect GW purely because I enjoy the painting and that more than the gaming but I have only started gaming the past 2 years or so where as I have actually been collecting for more like 10 years. When it comes to the rules through the years I cant really comment, all in all I just want GW to pause, take a step back and really find out what we want, and I think with SM it would be a perfect place t start with that! I know its all wishful thinking but since joining BoLs Im getting more and more annoyed with the way GW run things!

[chicop76]

I would had went back to playing 3rd, but thinking about it 3rd was broken for close combat armies and rending. I guess 4th is the most balanced although you no longer had to guess and blast weapons became better.

Although I do hate true line of sight. I find true line of sight to be really stupid overall. I can't remember if 4th is when you had terrain size or not. You had size 1-3 with swrms being 1, troops 2, tanks 3. Size 3 can see over size two etc.

Oh 4th is where you had to shoot at the closest unit unless you passed leadership you can shoot at anything you want. I remember I hated 4th due to that since armies like Marines can easily shoot through my screen of wraith guard and hit my units behind it.

Yeah I would had rather 3rd even though you can consolidate into units and stay in combat forever.

[Tynskel]

Correct, maybe I did. I have been playing 40k since 1989, and just the game, the fluff and the minis. Its just that GW sometimes makes decisions that I find hard to believe, and in all the years I have played, they never 'asked' their customers/gamers their thoughts. I love the hobby, and maybe its people like me that keep the company going, because there are too many hardcore lovers of the 40k universe/fluff, and 'we' will never wonder too far away, even during those 'bad' years/rule sets, knowing that we will purchase a few minis here and there because they/GW still are the best quality minis out there. We will eventually return when a 'better' rule set/codex is released. Currently a group of us are not overly impressed with the 6th Ed rules (Flyers have unbalanced the game, HtH is shocking/poor, and some of the general rules are just not that great, so while not playing many 6th Ed games (we are waiting for 7th Ed), we have decided to revert back to playing 4th Ed games. Not the best rule set either, but better than 6th ed, easier to use, and demnocratically voted for by the 12 gamers in our local club. I love this hobby, but GW really p#sses me off sometimes, and hence the reason why I take things a little too eriously some times.....sorry about that.:)

wow what? 4th? You mean one of the most abusive rulesets? What?

[Fanboy]

LOL, you can consolidate into HtH/other enemy units in 4th Ed.

[Tynskel]

LOL, you can consolidate into HtH/other enemy units in 4th Ed.

yeah, one of the most awful rules in 40k.
As a Bug player, it made my armies unstoppable.

Booooooring.

I wouldn't even take a single gun in my bug army because hand to hand was so much more powerful than shooting.

[Power Klawz]

This Space Marine release is certainly not unexpected and it hasn't been rushed due to some nebulous market concern. The release pace for 6th edition codexes has been both relentless and diverse. They didn't open 6th with their best selling army, they chose the black sheep (or Dark Angels, I guess) of the holy Quadrenity (Ultras, Puppies, and the 2 angels) of skittles marines, the power armored faction arguably most in need of a face lift, and after that it was off to the races with non-stop xenos and chaos releases.

This is going to be a big release for sure, and of course the Space Marines are going to have a bigger dex and all that, they are the reason 40k still exists today. I'm glad that they put them in the middle of the release train for 6th, a lot of more needing armies have had their day in the sun while the Ultra-bros and friends waited.

5th edition Space Marines have been eminently playable throughout 6th by the way, still a highly competitive army with plenty of options and access to everything you need in the modern game. The 5th edition SM codex was Ward's finest hour (in terms of rules I mean, lets not delve too deeply into his rabid Ultramarine fanboyishness, there are fouler things than orcs in the deep places of the world...) they have been well situated as they awaited their inevitable 6th edition dex, and I really can't see how any objective person could feel overly slighted in the interim.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Strike Force is... tempting.

[Roman Himmelhan]

ummm, so you're telling me GW is putting out a Codex for roughly 40€ and then another 8 supplements for the same price again each? And this, even though all of the mentioned supplemental armies would have been mentioned already in the main codex? This would be even less logical than the usual GW proceedings.

[Wolfshade]

Consider Codex Eldar and Iyanden: A Codex Eldar Supplement both the same cost...

[eldargal]

ummm, so you're telling me GW is putting out a Codex for roughly 40€ and then another 8 supplements for the same price again each? And this, even though all of the mentioned supplemental armies would have been mentioned already in the main codex? This would be even less logical than the usual GW proceedings.

No one has said anything about 8 supplements in terms of rumours I don't think? I someone confusing the limited edition codices with supplements?

[Roman Himmelhan]

Rumoured first supplement will be White Scars.

I prefer the normal codex cover art.

That's one of the rumors that got me confused here. It's not the first time that i heard this one, and i think i've heard it way before all the final content rumors from the last days came out. My question is, what's the point in such a supplement if we have a limited edition cover for the SM codex, then the 'born in the saddle' and 'fight on the move' traits plus Khan in the main codex?

[Cap'nSmurfs]

"the point" is that the supplements are more about background, art and scenarios than they are "rules".

There also hasn't been any confirmation of White Scars. IIRC nothing in any of the leaks to date has confirmed the rumoured White Scar supplement (please correct me if I'm wrong).

[Dimitrios]

That's one of the rumors that got me confused here. It's not the first time that i heard this one, and i think i've heard it way before all the final content rumors from the last days came out. My question is, what's the point in such a supplement if we have a limited edition cover for the SM codex, then the 'born in the saddle' and 'fight on the move' traits plus Khan in the main codex?

The point would be for specific white scares rules tweaks, unique white scars wargear, unique warlord traits and unique white scares FOC changes.

I have no idea what these would look like, and I dont want to wishlist either, but it would be the same logic as every other suppliment. No one will MAKE you buy the supliment, so why make such a ignorant remark if you have no interest for the topic?

[Roman Himmelhan]

Don't call me ignorant just because you didn't get my point. I can assure you that there's plenty of love for the SM on my side, even though i'm playing Blood Angels mostly.

[The Imperial Fist]

No one has said anything about 8 supplements in terms of rumours I don't think? I someone confusing the limited edition codices with supplements?
If it is the LE codices, they're double the cost, not the same. Got hands on white dwarf earlier. GB prices of Limted Edition codex is £70. Hunter is £40, Centurions £47.50 and new tactical squad £25.

[Forgotten Heretic]

Ouch, the centurions are a bit pricey, any idea how much bigger than terminators they are?

[Bigred]

That Space Marine list (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?35191-GW-to-release-10-000%80-one-click-deal-Complete-pricelist-and-NEW-models!&p=341966&viewfull=1#post341966) does include a set of chapter labeled codices that are listed at 85 euros, compared to the 45 euro standard codex.

That price differential would indicate Limited Editions versions of the standard codex, not Supplemental codices (which would be coming later in any case).

[Eupackardia]

So basically you're paying 40 Euros more for a beautiful Cover with no extra content?

[The Imperial Fist]

That Space Marine list (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?35191-GW-to-release-10-000%80-one-click-deal-Complete-pricelist-and-NEW-models!&p=341966&viewfull=1#post341966) does include a set of chapter labeled codices that are listed at 85 euros, compared to the 45 euro standard codex.

That price differential would indicate Limited Editions versions of the standard codex, not Supplemental codices (which would be coming later in any case).

Yeah, in White Dwarf there were no supplemental codices listed, just the chapter specific LE covers, at £70 each. Which probably makes 85 right in funny money.

[The Imperial Fist]

They seemed about the same size as a killer kan, maybe 1/3 bigger than terminators.

[The Imperial Fist]

Ouch, the centurions are a bit pricey, any idea how much bigger than terminators they are?


They seemed about the same size as a killer kan, maybe 1/3 bigger than terminators.

[Deadlift]

So basically you're paying 40 Euros more for a beautiful Cover with no extra content?

Yes it looks like I will be :o

[deinol]

So basically you're paying 40 Euros more for a beautiful Cover with no extra content?

That's how they did it for all the other codex releases. I wouldn't pay that for Eldar, but somehow they sold out.

[The Imperial Fist]

That's how they did it for all the other codex releases. I wouldn't pay that for Eldar, but somehow they sold out.

It's basically a geek tax. They know they'll sell them - I'm 100% buying a Imperial Fist one - especially space marine ones. Which I imagine why the mark up on the LE is so much for these (£70 compared to £50 for all the other LE codices so far).

[pohanew]

ummm, so you're telling me GW is putting out a Codex for roughly 40€ and then another 8 supplements for the same price again each? And this, even though all of the mentioned supplemental armies would have been mentioned already in the main codex? This would be even less logical than the usual GW proceedings.

if you buy the digital versions its £10 cheaper

[DarkLink]

Ouch, the centurions are a bit pricey, any idea how much bigger than terminators they are?

Broadside sized, so a fair bit bigger.

[Forgotten Heretic]

Broadside sized, so a fair bit bigger.

Ah nice, the price doesn't look so bad now, I actually quite like the models

[MajorWesJanson]

Broadside sized, so a fair bit bigger.

OK, bigger than expected. Any word on the base size?

[HsojVvad]

"the point" is that the supplements are more about background, art and scenarios than they are "rules".

There also hasn't been any confirmation of White Scars. IIRC nothing in any of the leaks to date has confirmed the rumoured White Scar supplement (please correct me if I'm wrong).

I thought I read about a month ago, that White Scars would be getting a supplemental at the same time as the SM codex comes out. Haven't herd anything since then. With the WD scans out, I thought there would be a WS supplemental mention if it was in WD, and since it's not out, I guess that rumour is false.

[The Imperial Fist]

I thought I read about a month ago, that White Scars would be getting a supplemental at the same time as the SM codex comes out. Haven't herd anything since then. With the WD scans out, I thought there would be a WS supplemental mention if it was in WD, and since it's not out, I guess that rumour is false.
Unless I'm completely blind, there wasn't anything in the releases section about any C:SM supplements. There was a demons one, but I didn't pay attention to the details of that as I had no interest in that part.

[DarkLink]

OK, bigger than expected. Any word on the base size?

Well, Broadsides don't fit on medium bases. Though based on the scale of the pictures, if they're on 60mm bases, then they're literally almost the size of a Dreadnought each.

[Nabterayl]

Well, Broadsides don't fit on medium bases. Though based on the scale of the pictures, if they're on 60mm bases, then they're literally almost the size of a Dreadnought each.
"Brother, I've been wondering ... are you sure we have to be mortally injured to pilot a dreadnought? I mean ... just ... just throwing it out there."

[deinol]

"Brother, I've been wondering ... are you sure we have to be mortally injured to pilot a dreadnought? I mean ... just ... just throwing it out there."

Just be happy you get away with mere grave injuries. You have to be dead to pilot an Eldar Dreadnought.

[Xarga]

Just be happy you get away with mere grave injuries. You have to be dead to pilot an Eldar Dreadnought.

Touché :D

[daboarder]

Anyone else find it sad that marines just got an item with a 3++ EW and AW.........I mean if thats not a finger to BL I dunno what is...


For +10 pts.....because F*CK chaos

[DarkLink]

Can Chapter Masters take it, with their 4 wounds? Because that would be awesome. Finally, a non-Librarian HQ that might actually be worth it. Plus, screw Grey Knights. The Chapter Master's probably like half the cost of Draigo for basically the same statline.

Also, Tau with their bull**** Iridium Armor? Screw them, too, we can do better than that.

[daboarder]

yeah.....

Worst load out I've heard of so far is the IH's CM with the eternal shield and the AP2 sword (though thats optional)...from henceforth it shall be known as the "I have so many layers of protection....f*ck you" loadout.

chapter masters get 4 W....wtf? seriously why do GW even bother with chaos space marines at this stage.....

[Learn2Eel]

Yeah Chapter Masters have 4 wounds and 4 attacks. Given the cost of a Dark Angels Company Master, I expect Chapter Masters won't be too expensive. I can foresee a Chapter Master on a bike from Iron Hands with the AP2 sword and the eternal shield being one of the most brutal combat characters in the game bar none. Probably in the area of 250-300 points though, of course. Add in Artificer Armour as you see fit as well.

[daboarder]

I'd say 200 max for that load out.....

[DarkLink]

BTW, the EW Storm Shield is 50pts, I believe. Which'll still be much cheaper than Draigo. Chapter Masters and Captains really, really need a buff or points decrease, though. The only reason to take one was for Bikes and/or Command squad.

Edit: http://pinsofwar.com/new-space-marines-chapter-relics-rumours/

[Learn2Eel]

I'd say 200 max for that load out.....

Assuming a Captain is 90 points base starting with an Iron Halo - it would be awesome if they were something like 65 base and could pay for one, making the Eternal Shield so inexpensive comparatively - and a Chapter Master is something like a 25 point upgrade, combining the Burning Blade (55 points) with the Shield Eternal (50 points) would make the character just over 200 points. Probably about 250 points with a bike and artificer armour; pair all that up with Iron Hands chapter tactics and you have a certified Draigo killer.

[DarkLink]

He won't kill Draigo, really, they'd just kind of bounce off each other. But he would do everything Draigo does, for much cheaper and better.

[Learn2Eel]

He won't kill Draigo, really, they'd just kind of bounce off each other. But he would do everything Draigo does, for much cheaper and better.

Don't worry, it was just an example. He'd probably beat Draigo in a straight combat, but it would take so long that it would pretty much be a pointless waste of either character.
I guess he doesn't have Grand Strategy or FOC manipulation, but he does have Chapter Tactics to make up for it.

[eldargal]

So basically you're paying 40 Euros more for a beautiful Cover with no extra content?

People are still not getting this? This has been the case since 6th edition arrived.

[Learn2Eel]

Had a look, and apparently a Chapter Master is now 130 points base, and pays 20 points for Artificer Armour. So....that Iron Hands build on a bike would be 275 points. Maybe lose the sword for a cheaper thunder hammer, lose artificer armour and the bike to be closer to 200.

[The Imperial Fist]

People are still not getting this? This has been the case since 6th edition arrived.

No, the case so far has been to pay an extra £20 so far for the LE codices. This time the standard codex is £5 more, but the LE codex is an extra £35 on top of that. Likely just because it's the SM codex and they know people will pay it.

[eldargal]

No, the case so far has been to pay an extra £20 so far for the LE codices. This time the standard codex is £5 more, but the LE codex is an extra £35 on top of that. Likely just because it's the SM codex and they know people will pay it.
Irrelevant fact is irrelevant, the issue was in regards to paying extra for a pretty cover and no extra content.

Also, fairly sure I paid sixty pounds for my LE Eldar codex, which was double the standard price. just like LE C:SM is double the standard price.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

The White Dwarf is glorious.

I hope a Librarian can take the Eternal Shield. xD

[kire]

The White Dwarf is glorious.

I hope a Librarian can take the Eternal Shield. xD


3+ deny the witch psy hood will be sweet.

[daboarder]

Irrelevant fact is irrelevant, the issue was in regards to paying extra for a pretty cover and no extra content.

Also, fairly sure I paid sixty pounds for my LE Eldar codex, which was double the standard price. just like LE C:SM is double the standard price.

God I hope thats not the case here, that would make it close to 200 dollars.....

[Learn2Eel]

God I hope thats not the case here, that would make it close to 200 dollars.....

They're $190 AUD. :(

[daboarder]

well F*CK that, thank god I have rellies in Scotland...its 120 aud over there...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

3+ deny the witch psy hood will be sweet.

Hell yeah.


God I hope thats not the case here, that would make it close to 200 dollars.....

That has always been the case?

[daboarder]

no the other LE's are 140 normally. still more than the 90 the exchange rate says they should be


wait does that mean the regular dex will break over 100 here? jesus christ

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

The Marine codex is bigger though? It has always been more expensive than the others?

[Learn2Eel]

Amazingly, despite how much bigger it is than other codices, the regular Space Marines codex is only $90. Pretty top stuff I must say.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Wow, Australia is so expensive.

[Learn2Eel]

Meh, we're used to it. Doesn't stop us complaining though :D

[daboarder]

It serves us right for living in the most awesome place on earth I guess.

[Psychosplodge]

Aren't you funny.

[daboarder]

come on down to the dark side psycho, you'll love it!

[Psychosplodge]

It's far too warm.
At festival just been too we had an aussie camped with us, and while everyone else is walking round in shorts/T-shirts poor lass is sat shivering in a hoody...

[daboarder]

40 degrees in the shade isn't that warm......is it?:D

you should see the festivals down our way, you'd probably pass out form heat stroke.

[Psychosplodge]

Probably, I've managed to get sunstroke at ours three times, once when it was cloudy :rolleyes:

[RGilbert26]

Well they do say you can get sun burnt from being in the shade, so sunstroke isn't a stretch :p

[Psychosplodge]

Sucked though, cut into a days drinking...

[daboarder]

I take it back, you'd hate australia Psycho, not only is everything trying to kill you, but you sound a little soft letting a little heatstroke stop you drinking.....:p

[Tyrendian]

I take it back, you'd hate australia Psycho, not only is everything trying to kill you, but you sound a little soft letting a little heatstroke stop you drinking.....:p

well said! on that note, and seeing we are already quite off topic, listen to this :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdihHnaOQsk

[Psychosplodge]

I take it back, you'd hate australia Psycho, not only is everything trying to kill you, but you sound a little soft letting a little heatstroke stop you drinking.....:p

Well I do have a poorly GF to look after at these things :p
plus I borrowed her strong painkillers - the type that say no alcohol in big letters...

[daboarder]

Interesting fact...apparently we have one of the highest tourist mortality rates in the western world per capita.....

Don't know the veracity of that one.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EverythingTryingToKillYou

go down to the Australia entry its funny.

Also Australia is home to the largest terrestrial predator on the planet, can you guess what it is.

[Psychosplodge]

Well you've got all these things that look pettable that just want to kill you...

[daboarder]

nah salty is top dog, a full grown male croc can weigh in at 2 tonne

but these are my favourite

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxPtokeVw7I

[Psychosplodge]

They are adorable, have they managed to domesticate them yet?

[daboarder]

not quite, to busy trying to prevent them from being killed of by contagious tumours.

best thing about those little guys....strongest bite force psi on the planet.

[DWest]

So what you're saying then is Catachans are actually Australians in space?

[daboarder]

So what you're saying then is Catachans are actually Australians in space?

pfft Catachan wishes it was half as 'ard as oz!

actually its a little strange there has never been an "australian" type marine chapter now that I think about it.....even aboriginal dream time seems to be left out of the mythos whereas it steals stuff from pretty much every other primitive culture on the planet....

[Psychosplodge]

Savlar chem dogs...

[Wolfshade]

The problem with them would be that they would be based on 80s stereotypes so it would be like an army of Paul Hogan

[miteyheroes]

it steals stuff from pretty much every other primitive culture on the planet....

Ah, that's mean, I wouldn't say that Australia is primitive.

[The Imperial Fist]

They're $190 AUD. :(

To be honest, I'm genuinely surprised they even sell them internationally and not just to UK.

[The Imperial Fist]

The problem with them would be that they would be based on 80s stereotypes so it would be like an army of Paul Hogan
Or, quite likely go back even further and make them all penal colonists.

[Katharon]

Online codex supplements. Whichever peon at GW created the idea and then had it stolen by his superior to be passed off as his own brilliant idea for a no-cost, net-gain profit method has my deep and abiding respect for having come up with the idea in the first place. It not only supplies a consumer desire (for more fluff-driven armies) but also costs the company nothing in production costs (no books to print and ship around).

[Mr Mystery]

There's still the production cost of making it!

But yeah. Cheaper overall for them. Not fussed by the price, as I'll buy them because I can afford them. Well. I will be able to once I'm out of my current financial mire!

[eldargal]

Interesting fact...apparently we have one of the highest tourist mortality rates in the western world per capita.....

Don't know the veracity of that one.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EverythingTryingToKillYou

go down to the Australia entry its funny.

Also Australia is home to the largest terrestrial predator on the planet, can you guess what it is.
Don't want to derail the topic again but, that is just scary.

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

Do we have any information on the relic's that are in the book? also is there any truth to rumor that a relic will grant eternal warrior?

[DarkLink]

50pt Storm Shield that gives you Eternal Warrior and Adamantium Will.

[phil035]

just so you guys know the battle force tactical squad and vanguard veterans have been removed from the website

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

really now? that sounds pretty damn nasty i mean 50 points is expensive but on a 4 wound master doesnt sound to unreasonable. do we have any word on weather or not they are going to remove the stupidity that allows a power armoured marine to wield a relic blade but not a terminator?

[MajorWesJanson]

just so you guys know the battle force tactical squad and vanguard veterans have been removed from the website

Aww, they should keep the current Vanguard Vets, at least as collectors series.

[The Imperial Fist]

Do we have any information on the relic's that are in the book? also is there any truth to rumor that a relic will grant eternal warrior?
If it is poor Lysander may be retired, especially if the rumour he is now 230 pts is also true.

[Brakkart]

just so you guys know the battle force tactical squad and vanguard veterans have been removed from the website

The 5 pack Sternguard finecast vets are gone too, though the two 5 packs of just untyped Veterans and the 4 pack of Tyrannic War vets are all still there.

[Xarga]

If it is poor Lysander may be retired, especially if the rumour he is now 230 pts is also true.

I believe Chapter Masters are 130pts, with the new 4W 4A and artificer included. So for rough equivalency, giving one the "Eternal Shield" and a Thunder Hammer would make one 210pts. Only 20pts cheaper than Lysander, but he can deep-strike due to his terminator armour, has his S10 hammer and the re-roll morale/pinning for all fists thing. (It would be a bit pointless giving the Chapter Master terminator armour aswell seeing as he would be 2+/3++ with the "Eternal Shield" anyway.)

Assuming these points rumors are correct of course. Then i certainly say Lysanader still has his place.

[The Imperial Fist]

I believe Chapter Masters are 130pts, with the new 4W 4A and artificer included. So for rough equivalency, giving one the "Eternal Shield" and a Thunder Hammer would make one 210pts. Only 20pts cheaper than Lysander, but he can deep-strike due to his terminator armour, has his S10 hammer and the re-roll morale/pinning for all fists thing. (It would be a bit pointless giving the Chapter Master terminator armour aswell seeing as he would be 2+/3++ with the "Eternal Shield" anyway.)

Assuming these points rumors are correct of course. Then i certainly say Lysanader still has his place.
If the rumour for re-roll morale and pinning is true, he may well stay. I do love him in his current state, he is a bad *** character/monstrous creature killer.

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

Depends on what you want your character to do. id honestly use the storm shield as more of a tax to get the eternal warrior then anything else. also terminator armour vs articificer armour there is a reason to taker termi armour already. i am working on a heavily converted terminator commadn squad so termi armour would be the way to go artificer armour not so much. would have preferred they done something more inline with an adamantium mantel instead of a storm shield but alas i'll have to work with that or simply use the rules for either commander cullen or chapter master culled eternal warrior TDA and iron halo or make a scratch rules version.

[Xarga]

Depends on what you want your character to do. id honestly use the storm shield as more of a tax to get the eternal warrior then anything else. also terminator armour vs articificer armour there is a reason to taker termi armour already. i am working on a heavily converted terminator commadn squad so termi armour would be the way to go artificer armour not so much. would have preferred they done something more inline with an adamantium mantel instead of a storm shield but alas i'll have to work with that or simply use the rules for either commander cullen or chapter master culled eternal warrior TDA and iron halo or make a scratch rules version.

That's true. Though i believe terminator command squads are no longer a thing, or so I've heard. What i was saying was in the context of Chapter Masters now (apparently) coming with artificer armour in their base cost, and taking the "Eternal Shield" he would already be 2+/3++ and would be a slight waste to spend 20-30pts (however much it costs) to upgrade to termy armour in that situation just for deep striking. If no shield is taken it definitely worth it though.

[MajorWesJanson]

The 5 pack Sternguard finecast vets are gone too, though the two 5 packs of just untyped Veterans and the 4 pack of Tyrannic War vets are all still there.

That's disappointing. They should keep the Finecast Sternguard and Vanguard in addition to the Vets 1 and 2 packs. They also should bring back a few of the missing vet models, like the vet with a power maul.

[phil035]

you'll still be able to get them in store or by calling up the customer service

[The Imperial Fist]

8 minutes... ;-)

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

well after the guys i game with had to stop me from planning a trip to GW to make matt war sleep with the fishes when he got rid of the termi command squad they saw rationale and have agreed that if your taking a terminator commander he's gonna have a termi command squad just like he would if he were taking bikes or jump infantry... really GW is pretty stupid when it comes to what units to keep and what units to remove from a book.... its like on wait you guys want options... well we dont like options or cool conversion ideas so scucks to be you... not where i come from :) sucks to be GW i havent paid full price for their crap in a long time thanks to their stupidity :) all hail mother russia and china :)

[The Imperial Fist]

Surprise surprise, GW website seems to be struggling....

[Cadian122]

you'd think they'd have gotten the servers prepared for that...

[Cr1ck3t]

One of the biggest / most played armies and the website is down..... yea they were totally unprepared

[MajorWesJanson]

One of the biggest / most played armies and the website is down..... yea they were totally unprepared

It happens every time. And servers meant for normal load and some increases do have a hard time with spike loading. Most college networks do the same thing during registration, it's not just GW.

[The Imperial Fist]

Really becoming frustrating now...

[Blusox69]

The space marines stuff is up for preorder now on apple book store. The codex is an "enhanced" edition with what looks like an army builder style tool included :-)

[jonsgot]

It happens every time. And servers meant for normal load and some increases do have a hard time with spike loading. Most college networks do the same thing during registration, it's not just GW.

Queuing theory is taught on any good I.t. course. I think it's more a case of...

Servers, internets? what are they and what do they have to do with selling models.

The release of sixth edition was handled better and wasn't meant to be a secrete like this was. I phoned local gw to ask if I could get an old box set reserved and was told they couldn't tell me why the set was not available any more. The poor guys.

[daboarder]

God Damn this piece of ****, You cant eve call them to place an order as they are not open on a saturday.....stupid stupid stupid company

[The Imperial Fist]

God Damn this piece of ****, You cant eve call them to place an order as they are not open on a saturday.....stupid stupid stupid company
Hopefully the weak willed ones will give up soon and the rest of us can finally order our LE codex....

[jonsgot]

Although I remember it was once a case of standing in the cold to get hold of this stuff. So I shouldn't complain.

[The Imperial Fist]

Although I remember it was once a case of standing in the cold to get hold of this stuff. So I shouldn't complain.
I would prefer that over this...

[daboarder]

same, not to mention technology is a wonderful thing....provided people USE it.

[AkimboGogurts]

I got in. Sprues for Sternguard are AMAZING.

[The Imperial Fist]

I finally get it into my cart, then when I click checkout it says the website is down for maintanence. Argh!!!!!

[jonsgot]

Like I said it's never been this bad. I got a look at the tac squad before it went down. There are a few extra shoulder pads one has a halo like symbol I can't make out on it. Looks like 16 head options 3 with no helmet and 3 with a pointy helmet. Just the missile luncher no other heavy weapons. One combi weapon with all the options and all the special weapons. There are 10 bolters. All the guns hand with the hands attached.

[Xarga]

And now we wait.

[Sargejohnson]

At nearly $200 for a LE codex with the ugliest cover of all of them, so hideous they had to put a dust jacket over the newly disrespected Black Templar cover... They can keep their LE codex. They put a dust jacket of some other chapter that no one really cares about... Because it has better art than the Depressed Templar looking shamefully upon the other chapter symbols... No thanks. But hey, the new tank looks lovely, and at only $85 for a rhino kit... It's a bargain! Right?

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

Nope not gonna happen i'll wait to pre order it from my secret squirrel for 20% off Sorry GW im sure there was a sucker born today but unfortunatly it wasn't me :) The new mini's do look beautiful well some of them.... (teletubby terminators) But it wil be a cold day in hell before i order from you and give you any money.

[Cyanide]

They put a dust jacket of some other chapter that no one really cares about

Yeah... I've never heard of the crimson fists... who cares about those guys *eyeroll*

[The Imperial Fist]

After 2 hours and 20 minutes of trying finally managed to get through checkout...

[daboarder]

yeah finally got my Ultramarine LE.

[energongoodie]

It took a while but I got the Iron Hands cover.

[Tynskel]

At nearly $200 for a LE codex with the ugliest cover of all of them, so hideous they had to put a dust jacket over the newly disrespected Black Templar cover... They can keep their LE codex. They put a dust jacket of some other chapter that no one really cares about... Because it has better art than the Depressed Templar looking shamefully upon the other chapter symbols... No thanks. But hey, the new tank looks lovely, and at only $85 for a rhino kit... It's a bargain! Right?

must be australian. It's okay, man, everything is expensive there. Even the Per Diem is expensive!

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Having read through the new White Dwarf, I can say a few things.

Firstly, the new plastic kits are off the hook. There's amazing amounts of detail on these things. There's new shoulder pad designs, new backpacks, new helmets, new and different pieces of ornamentation everywhere. The bolter arms are designed to be put into much more exciting poses; it's possible to build a tactical marine slamming a fresh clip home. The armour types are still Mk7 dominant, as they always will be, but there's plenty of new older mark pieces in there: mark four legs are the most obvious. The Sternguard box was designed to be full of bits so that you can customise the rest of your force; judging from the pictures, there's an awful lot of variation possible just in the one box.

The Stalker has two AA guns which blaze away independently, so I guess it has Split Fire. The Hunter fires homing missiles: it seems like if you miss initially, you have a chance to hit with it the next turn! Matt Hutson's Hunter wrecks a Heldrake in the battle report, so it's apparently not a slouch.

Centurions with Grav-Cannon appear to kill. Absolutely. Everything. in the battle report. So much so that Hutson forgets to actually go after the objective.

On those Centurions: the pilots of the suits seem to be normal Assault and Devastator marines, with one twist: there's a new kind of honour, the Centurion's Honour, which is inscribed on the left shoulder piece. So I guess one has to be a qualified Centurion before one can wear the suit, a little like Terminator Honours.

Black Templars still have mixed squads. Including them in the main book has been justified by the fact that Templars have access to an awful lot more stuff now, without losing the things that made them special.

There's definitely more background and more space for the Codex First Founding chapters. Each one has its own.... chapter, with background, special rules, art and heraldry. Black Templars and Crimson Fists are the two Successors treated in this way. Ultramarines are still kings, in that they're the exemplars of the Codex and the primogenitors of 3/5 of all Space Marines (Cruddace made the point that there'd probably be no Imperium without them), but everyone else has more of their own space and character. So while the Ultramarines are still very prominent, it doesn't seem like "this is the book of the Ultramarines" like the 5th ed was. (Even though it still kind of is, that's what a Codex Chapter is... but that's for another day~) Even the Ultramarines - their Thing is that they're doctrinaire adherents to the Codex above all else. Which is as it should be.

By this point I'm guessing most of the 40k radio rumours about the codex contents are accurate, as they seem to square with what White Dwarf is saying.

Oh, and the Codex itself is beautiful.

[RGilbert26]

I was looking at the iPad version of the codex and there is an army builder built into it, so finally we don't have to keep going back and forth between codex and notepad :)

[eldargal]

By this point I'm guessing most of the 40k radio rumours about the codex contents are accurate, as they seem to square with what White Dwarf is saying.

Oh, and the Codex itself is beautiful.
Well, we know they had the WD because they posted pictures. We still don't know they really had access to the actual codex.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Sure, but what I'm seeing squares with the sort of thing they've been saying. Which is not to say they have the True Facts, but that it doesn't seem too far off.

[The Imperial Fist]

For those who have the new WD and have played the XBOX/Playstation game Space Marine, have a look at the sternguard squad on the back cover of WD. The bare head on the left looks very much like Sergeant Sidonus and the bare head second from the right looks like Captain Titus, or at least has the same scar.

[The Imperial Fist]

Also it does definitely appear the Hunter has no ground capability (other than perhaps snap shots) and most definitely doesn't have interceptor. In the battle report at the start Matt Hudson says when the Heldrake comes on it will get one turn to attack his troops before he can deal with it (eg no Interceptor). And at the end they discuss that although it was great at what it did, it really was a one trick pony that did nothing the whole game apart from that one shot, they even say they'd normally use the heavy support slot for a predator unless coming up against flyer heavy opponents. It's only 70 pts though.
It also appears that they've gone back to wargear tables with this one too. The picture showing the page containing Elite choices has options for Vanguards "any model may take items from the Melee Wepons list", Sternguard "Two Veterans may take one item from either the Special Weapons or the Heavy Weapons list" and the LoTD has "The Legionnaire Sergeant may take items from the Ranged Weapons list.
Which, to answer a previous question, does hopefully mean Terminator Captains will be able to take Relic Blades now.

[DarkLink]

It's pretty bad when GW admits that a unit doesn't do anything.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Uh, dude. It kills a Heldrake in one shot - the first shot. The Hunter appears to be excellent at what it does: killing flyers. What they say is that it doesn't do anything except the one role it's there to perform, which is not unreasonable. If the Chaos players had more fliers, it probably would've killed some of those too, but they didn't. A whirlwind is 70 points and can't kill fliers. Does that mean it can't do anything?

[Power Klawz]

All the new kits are really amazing looking. Almost nice enough to get me to start an Imperial Fists army, but moreso it makes me excited for future releases. I'm still holding out hope for a big "second wave" year sometime in the near future. If they make a CSM chosen kit anywhere near as nice as the sternguard they can have all the monies.

(Well ok, those centurion are a real miss aesthetically in my humble opinion, but other than that its amazing. Termy tubbies lulz.)

[daboarder]

Also it does definitely appear the Hunter has no ground capability (other than perhaps snap shots) and most definitely doesn't have interceptor. In the battle report at the start Matt Hudson says when the Heldrake comes on it will get one turn to attack his troops before he can deal with it (eg no Interceptor). And at the end they discuss that although it was great at what it did, it really was a one trick pony that did nothing the whole game apart from that one shot, they even say they'd normally use the heavy support slot for a predator unless coming up against flyer heavy opponents. It's only 70 pts though.
It also appears that they've gone back to wargear tables with this one too. The picture showing the page containing Elite choices has options for Vanguards "any model may take items from the Melee Wepons list", Sternguard "Two Veterans may take one item from either the Special Weapons or the Heavy Weapons list" and the LoTD has "The Legionnaire Sergeant may take items from the Ranged Weapons list.
Which, to answer a previous question, does hopefully mean Terminator Captains will be able to take Relic Blades now.

But, But multiple wargear entries for squads would be too complex, just like legion rules, and beyond the scope of what GW does.....RIGHT....RIGHT?

GW should just change their motto to "**** Chaos"

[Power Klawz]

But, But multiple wargear entries for squads would be too complex, just like legion rules, and beyond the scope of what GW does.....RIGHT....RIGHT?

GW should just change their motto to "**** Chaos"

I don't understand what you're getting at, other than the fact that you are indeed mad.

I mean I'm looking at the entry for the CSM equivalent to sternguard (Chosen) and I'm seeing all kinds of options. In fact if that little blurb about 2 special or heavy weapons is true, then chosen have way more special weapon slots than sternguard. Like you can take 5 plasma guns and a combi plasma on the Champion. Probably cheaper baseline too, I don't see sternguard being less than 20 ppm with their special ammo. (Of course I could be wrong there, haven't seen the dex yet.)

[daboarder]

..........heres a fun fact, Chosen with veterans are 20 ppm.......but please continue to compare them. Hey look 13 point CSM.....compared to 14 point loyalist marines with ATSKNF, Chapter tactics, combat squads.....seems legit.

It is what it is so theres not much I can do, But if you can't see that chaos is getting left in the dust well....

edit: And I was more talking about how easy legion rules would be to do if they can do chapter rules in the marine dex.

[Power Klawz]

They're all ready LD9 without vets, and if you're kitted out with plasma spam the hatred against imperial marines really isn't worth it.

I'd like to see the cost on sternguard to compare though. I'm guessing 22 pts a pop baseline. Obviously Chosen can get far more expensive, but its also obvious that if you poor a ton of points into chosen you will beat the everliving dookie out of basically everything so long as you don't get gibbed by pie-plates.

Instead of legion rules CSM got marks. Considering the current fluff I think it makes more sense to divvy them up along chaos god alignment lines than old legions, since all the legions are fragmented and basically embroiled in an endless game of time-twisting grabass. I do hope to see some uniqueness in future supplements though, mainly for the non-aligned legions like Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion and Nightlords.

Yes it would have been nice to get legion specific rules straight out the box with the basic CSM dex, but I mean come on its CSM not ultramarines, we all know that vanilla marines will always get the most attention. If anything the way they did the current dex might seem disappointing in a "they got all the toys I wanted for Christmas" sort of way, but on the flip side it could signal a return to the sorts of variety in army wide rules of bygone eras, and maybe future supplements/editions will be more likely to incorporate legion style rules.

Or they won't, but whatever. Its not worth getting upset about, I find the current CSM dex to have a lot of flexibility and fun in it all ready. Its really not just hellturkey spam as much as all the talking heads want to make it seem such.

[The Imperial Fist]

They're all ready LD9 without vets, and if you're kitted out with plasma spam the hatred against imperial marines really isn't worth it.

I'd like to see the cost on sternguard to compare though. I'm guessing 22 pts a pop baseline. Obviously Chosen can get far more expensive, but its also obvious that if you poor a ton of points into chosen you will beat the everliving dookie out of basically everything so long as you don't get gibbed by pie-plates.
120 points for the squad. 22 points per additional veteran. As well as bullet point for two marines to take heavy or special weapons from those seperate lists (not shown), there is: any model may upgrade to: storm bolter +5 points, combi-flamer, -grav, -melta or -plasma +10 points. Sergeant options: swap bolter and/or bolt pistol for: chainsword -free, grav-pistol +15(I think, so small it could be +25), lightning claw +15(I think, so small it could be +25), plasma pistol +15, power weapon +15, power fist +25. May take melta bombs for +5. The unit may take a rhino, razorback or drop pod (points not shown).
A good thing about this reference to Heavy and Special weapons lists is Tactical Squads should be able to take heavy flamers... There's something in Kit Bash on pg 107 which confirms this "Keith didn't need to use his heavy flamer for his Sternguard squad, so he happily gave it to his Tactical squad instead".

[DarkLink]

Do storm bolters still preclude special ammo? It's a worthless upgrade if it does.

Also, pretty sure that, for some reason, Tactical Marines can take 'any heavy weapon but heavy flamers', though I don't actually have the codex to see for myself.


They're all ready LD9 without vets, and if you're kitted out with plasma spam the hatred against imperial marines really isn't worth it.

But they lack ATSKNF, which is huge. Marine players tend to forget how good that rule is. Also, no special issue ammo, which is worth several points per model itself, and Chaos doesn't get Chapter Tactics of any sort.

[The Imperial Fist]

Do storm bolters still preclude special ammo? It's a worthless upgrade if it does.

Also, pretty sure that, for some reason, Tactical Marines can take 'any heavy weapon but heavy flamers', though I don't actually have the codex to see for myself.

It doesn't say on the page shown in WD unfortunately, but they probably do, 5 points would be too cheap if they allowed it.

Perhaps, but that quote and the relating picture in kit bash make me hopeful.

[daboarder]

They're all ready LD9 without vets, and if you're kitted out with plasma spam the hatred against imperial marines really isn't worth it.

I'd like to see the cost on sternguard to compare though. I'm guessing 22 pts a pop baseline. Obviously Chosen can get far more expensive, but its also obvious that if you poor a ton of points into chosen you will beat the everliving dookie out of basically everything so long as you don't get gibbed by pie-plates.

Instead of legion rules CSM got marks. Considering the current fluff I think it makes more sense to divvy them up along chaos god alignment lines than old legions, since all the legions are fragmented and basically embroiled in an endless game of time-twisting grabass. I do hope to see some uniqueness in future supplements though, mainly for the non-aligned legions like Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion and Nightlords.

Yes it would have been nice to get legion specific rules straight out the box with the basic CSM dex, but I mean come on its CSM not ultramarines, we all know that vanilla marines will always get the most attention. If anything the way they did the current dex might seem disappointing in a "they got all the toys I wanted for Christmas" sort of way, but on the flip side it could signal a return to the sorts of variety in army wide rules of bygone eras, and maybe future supplements/editions will be more likely to incorporate legion style rules.

Or they won't, but whatever. Its not worth getting upset about, I find the current CSM dex to have a lot of flexibility and fun in it all ready. Its really not just hellturkey spam as much as all the talking heads want to make it seem such.


Because the most awesome, fluffy and exciting rule 10000 years old veterans get.....is plasma spam. Forgive me if I don't throw my hat in the air.

edit: Oh I see, you haven't actually READ the chaos background.....you know that parts where angron and mortarion lead their legions against the imperium? Or the part in the intro that states they are "powerful" 10000 year old servants of the dark gods.....




But they lack ATSKNF, which is huge. Marine players tend to forget how good that rule is. Also, no special issue ammo, which is worth several points per model itself, and Chaos doesn't get Chapter Tactics of any sort.

BUT DUDE!, you can spend MORE points and get MARKS, Or ultragrit...OR BOTH!....I mean they don't make up for ATSKNF, Chapter tactics, Combat squads, drop pods, special issue ammo....but you should totally be happy right?

[DarkLink]

I know, right? All you Chaos players are just a bunch of whiners:rolleyes:.


It doesn't say on the page shown in WD unfortunately, but they probably do, 5 points would be too cheap if they allowed it.

Perhaps, but that quote and the relating picture in kit bash make me hopeful.

Well, that's what it currently is, and GW is pretty notorious for being utterly incapable of updating certain units or options even though they've literally never been even remotely good.

[daboarder]

I know, right? All you Chaos players are just a bunch of whiners:rolleyes:.

I think most people just think chaos players are power gamers, despite the fact we haven't really had a book very capable of that since 2007, and at this point its only players hooked on the army as an idea that are still around.

[Outcast]

Ive mainly joined just to post this as I see it all over the net at the moment the marine dex is just over 170 pages and yes $195 AUS is alot for a limited dex. If you dont like the price dont buy one the dex is almost twice the size of the others released so far (Tau dex is 100pgs) so thats y its so expensive and the fact that its marines is very little $$$ related.

So many of you online have a sad every time some thing is released and still buy it any way so such it up get over it and either keep playing the game or keep it to yourself and ur 'close' circle of friends.

P.S Marine dex is gonna smash face. CSM still have a very competitive dex learn to play betta or return to the light you traitorous *******s =p.

Everyone needs to chill online and read between the lines n the small print not just the $$$ tag n then have a cry.

Now thats my rent over =)

[daboarder]

....cool story bro?

seriously I just don't know where to start responding to that.

How about this

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279267-nova-open-results/

And people are saying WHAT about chaos?

edit: Sorry I missed that poking tongue symbol, too used to the emote pictures. sorry if this is snarky.

[Outcast]

The players using the CSM dex arent that gd... we use no comp events is Western Australia and a few CSM players are always in top 10 mind you I always make top 5 with marines even won an event with vanilla marines a few months ago just before eldar came out.

CSM are a strong dex when used by a competent general simple as use they arent the auto win of tau n eldar but their also alot more versatile then those dex.

Im not saying they have it hard and agree they dont have it as easy as other dexs but they have their strenghts just got to know how to capitalize on those strenghts. Like marines have in the past.

And also thats what you get for leaving the emperor's light. =D

[DarkLink]

CSM is a competitive codex, with some very good units. You know what parts of it aren't competitive? The actual Marines.

Also, the emoticons use : instead of =. :) vs =), for example.

[daboarder]

CSM is a competitive codex, with some very good units. You know what parts of it aren't competitive? The actual Marines.

Also, the emoticons use : instead of =. :) vs =), for example.

Which is why I suspect most of those daemon armies also included a CSM detachment, minimise the troops and maximise the rest of the punch.

edit: just wanted to clarify that the NOVA is an invitational, those are probably some of the better CSM players out there.

[Outcast]

How r their marines bad they are practically the same minus atsknf which is understand able, they have marks to make them betta in different ways/roles plus their vets of long war gives them +1 lds if ur so worried about morel test.

Their main problem is lack of assault vechiles/transports ive always found it funny that when they turned to the dark side they some how lost all their drop pods cause abbys a champ...

But if you think their main weak link is crappy marines then play an exno alien scam army =)

Ps I do 'emotions' my own way.

[daboarder]

apparently you do "sentence structure" your own way too.

Look this has been done to death, but paying a single point less per marine for the loss of ATSKNF, Combat tactics and Chapter tactics is ridiculous. Paying for marks means that your paying more for a squad that is very susceptible to being run down when the champion inevitably loses the challenge he is forced into.

And thats not even going into the fact that of the 3 delivery options for marine squads chaos only has access to what is arguably the "weakest".

As too xeno armies, I play Nids as well as chaos.

[White Tiger88]

Why are you to argueing about another codex in the marine thread..........

All in all i can't wait to face the new marine book and WIPE IT OFF THE TABLE! They get some new toy's but realistically its still the same power armored super humans. (Mind you all the books other then Demons so far are seem to be just slight updates with no major changes.....)

[madlib]

So this is a question coming from strictly a fluff/modeling nerd that only collects BL/FW books and paints Space Marines. I haven't actually played the game since 3rd edition.

Question is, where do Centurions fit tactically? Inbetween Dreads and Terminators? Do they make Terminators obsolete on the table top? What are the equivalent Eldar, Chaos, Tau, etc. units? Just curious.

[Outcast]

Marines lose the current combat tactics in a week and yes this has been done to death but always focusing on the neg every army cant have every thing other wise the game would be boring.

You must be excited about the new nid dex coming out then my house mate has 20k of the nasty bugs n hes like ahhh got to start saving now cause he'll buy every thing x2 (except dex) mind you he buys tones of **** as he works for GW.

And all gd man just gettin sick n tyered of ppl havin sads that this dex isnt as strong as this one and now this one is stronger then that one. They all have their strenghts n weeknesses just have to work around them and use them with a set role in mind, cant just throw them on the tabke and expect them to smash face.

I mean we cant all be Tau n Eldar how boring is that

[White Tiger88]

So this is a question coming from strictly a fluff/modeling nerd that only collects BL/FW books and paints Space Marines. I haven't actually played the game since 3rd edition.

Question is, where do Centurions fit tactically? Inbetween Dreads and Terminators? Do they make Terminators obsolete on the table top? What are the equivalent Eldar, Chaos, Tau, etc. units? Just curious.

From the looks of things they just let you take more Big models that will most likely end up completely and utterly useless on the tabletop. (The Loyalist chaos spawn maybe?) I can't see anyway they are better then Normal Terminators or a normal Devastator squad.

[daboarder]

Why are you to argueing about another codex in the marine thread..........


Its what I do?

haha:D

as to centurions, they are MC murders, if your opponent is running anything baring a daemon prince without armour a pair of grav-gun armed centurions will slaughter it in a single turn.

[White Tiger88]

Its what I do?

haha:D

as to centurions, they are MC murders, if your opponent is running anything baring a daemon prince without armour a pair of grav-gun armed centurions will slaughter it in a single turn.

The current Terminators & Devastators can do that anyhow =/

Also trolling isn't something to be proud of.....

[Outcast]

Its what I do?

haha:D

as to centurions, they are MC murders, if your opponent is running anything baring a daemon prince without armour a pair of grav-gun armed centurions will slaughter it in a single turn.

They are probly equale to obliterators, broadsides and wraithguard build to fill small gaps in an army with a set role to smash all new big models most armies are getting. Think of them as upgraded assault terms that can soften up infantry before they charge or upgraded dev squads that will murder vechile n MCs in a single phase.

They will only be bad n get smashed if you dont support them like any thing in the game.

Wait till you play with them or against them to pass proper judgement I can definitely see their potential to bad they are very odd looking in my books but im even thinking of adding them. (Storm raven, homing beacon drop close shoot the f out something and be supported with 30+ bikes plus 3 - 4 flyers at about 2000pts)

[plawolf]

Its what I do?

haha:D

as to centurions, they are MC murders, if your opponent is running anything baring a daemon prince without armour a pair of grav-gun armed centurions will slaughter it in a single turn.

That's only the shooty variant, the CC ones look awful and don't seem to bring much to the table. Besides, with grave weapons being widely available, you don't need to sink near 300pts on 3 models to murder MC. Sternguard with combigrav are just as, if not better and are far more versatile and probably cheaper to boot.

The lack of an Inv save really hurt the centurions badly and pretty much made them white elephants. Grave cannons are tempting, but the unit is too expensive and too fragile to make much use of those grave cannons against a decent opponent.

[Deadlift]

Just a quick derailment but worth it, page 128 of this months white dwarf. I spy Isotopes very lovely thousand sons army advertising warhammer worlds up coming Vidars Fate campaign. One of our own in WD how cool is that :D

[Outcast]

Centurions have 5 shoots ea with gav cannon n reoll failed wounds n damage to vechiles (rumored) any 4 of them wount be to much more then stern with combi-gavs, have higher T n betta save, betta range plus can shot missiles aswell making them smash face. Over kill... maybe but who cares.

And yea devs look ok assault look... yea not so great.

[daboarder]

The current Terminators & Devastators can do that anyhow =/

Also trolling isn't something to be proud of.....

I wasn't trolling, I was discussing how awesome this sounds for marine players, and how suck it sounds for chaos ones.

[The Imperial Fist]

So this is a question coming from strictly a fluff/modeling nerd that only collects BL/FW books and paints Space Marines. I haven't actually played the game since 3rd edition.

Question is, where do Centurions fit tactically? Inbetween Dreads and Terminators? Do they make Terminators obsolete on the table top? What are the equivalent Eldar, Chaos, Tau, etc. units? Just curious.

Judging by the WD, they are line company marines who've earned the Centurion honour (like the terminator honour). Larger than terminators but smaller than dreadnoughts. Centurion assault squads are formed from the company's assault squads and centurion devastator squads are formed from the company's devastator squads (which is why fluff wise it makes no sense to me - surely should be 5-10 strong, but guess that'd either be OP or too many points).

I don't believe they make terminators obsolete. Terminators have their crux terminatus save, are not slow and purposeful, are cheaper and have larger numbers. They've been compared a few times to Obliterators, but without the tactical flexibility to adjust weapon loadouts mid game.

[Xarga]

I've missed out on getting a LE Imperial Fists copy due to having to sort out bank issues. Oh well, in a round about way this is a good thing (saving money).

Also i noticed this in the description of the Centurion's on the GW site.

"To add the finishing touches to your squad there is an additional helmet plume to make it clear who the Sergeant is; an omniscope; an eagle back banner; purity seals; and an iron halo."

Iron Halo eay? A bit odd i have to say. How much do you guys think this upgrade will cost? 15pts? Is it really worth it for just the sergeant?

[Houghten]

First time I read that I wondered if Captains would have the option to take Centurion armour.

[The Imperial Fist]

First time I read that I wondered if Captains would have the option to take Centurion armour.

Now that would be nice.

[Tyrendian]

Now that would be nice.

would it? why? that one point of BS on the Devs guns? And I kinda doubt the Assault ones would have enough range of motion to use many weapons except for their drill fists...

[The Imperial Fist]

would it? why? that one point of BS on the Devs guns? And I kinda doubt the Assault ones would have enough range of motion to use many weapons except for their drill fists...

It means you would have a proper shooty option for a HQ other than the Master of the Forge and his conversion beamer.

[Tyrendian]

It means you would have a proper shooty option for a HQ other than the Master of the Forge and his conversion beamer.

true, but would that be worth the points? and would it fit into the background? I mean Marine heroes (like most others) are supposed to be melee monsters pretty much... we are no Tau after all... and pretty much the only other races that bother with significant shooting abilities on their HQ are those where said HQs are monstrous creatures, and as such good enough in melee without too much extra equipment (Nids and to an extent Daemons including Daemon princes of the CSM variety) - in most other cases there are either no significant shooting options (IG when one ignores the Artillery dude, Dark Eldar), they are gimmicky like with Marines (Shock Attack Gun), or a Psyker happened to roll a witchfire or two (Chaos again, or maybe Eldar if you count the Eldritch Storm)
Not that I wouldn't like to have the option, I just don't think it would be all that fitting...

[The Imperial Fist]

At this second in time Centurion armour doesn't fit into the background at all... It still would be a melee monster - it's still a captain, equipped with at least two power fists even if you pick the shooty option. Though they'd need to come to you rather than you them. But as to where a shooty captain could fit into fluff - devastator company captain in any chapter, I think the Iron Hands would quite like the armour on any captain, and I think it could fit my Fists well too, especially if playing a company in defence, or mounting a siege.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

The thing with the Captain, though, is that they're meant to be flexible. They go where the fight needs them and fight in the manner which suits the situation. Locking him into a big, slow walking-tank probably isn't what the Codex prescribes for Captains. On the other hand, if someone made one, wrote rules for it, and they seemed reasonable and they asked nicely, I'd let 'em do it.

[Tyrendian]

The thing with the Captain, though, is that they're meant to be flexible. They go where the fight needs them and fight in the manner which suits the situation. Locking him into a big, slow walking-tank probably isn't what the Codex prescribes for Captains. On the other hand, if someone made one, wrote rules for it, and they seemed reasonable and they asked nicely, I'd let 'em do it.

well, as to the flexibility - one might just assume he could "step out of his oversuit" at any time given a few moments to detach the connections and retract the back of the suit...

but looking at the pics I don't think the Devs will have power fists, at least not functionally - all the weapon barrels (HB looks close admittedly, but Lascannons are obvious) extend beyond the knuckles, so before your power fist makes contact with the enemy, you'll have stabbed them with your gun, probably to the point of snapping said barrel before your fist hits...

[wayne williams]

is there anything about the legion of the damned in the new codex . I have always had a soft spot for those since they first appeared in white dwarf.

[Tyrendian]

is there anything about the legion of the damned in the new codex . I have always had a soft spot for those since they first appeared in white dwarf.

well, they are in the codex...

[wayne williams]

well thats a start at least I am seriously thinking about starting a legion of damned army using some of these nice new sprues ( not centurions though they are ugly ) hope fully theyl have a half decent rule set this time to.

[Tyrendian]

well thats a start at least I am seriously thinking about starting a legion of damned army using some of these nice new sprues ( not centurions though they are ugly ) hope fully theyl have a half decent rule set this time to.

they are still a distinct unit from what I've seen, so making a whole army with that rule set will be tough... you can always play them as whatever chapter you choose and maybe use the LotD squad itself as some kind of extra veteran dudes or whatever...

[HsojVvad]

well, they are in the codex...

Well LotD were in the 5th edition codex as well. Does that say much? If you were not excite for LotD in SM 5th, I think you will be just as excited for them in 6th. I think it's the same boring stuff they get, except they have a special rule. I forget what that rule is.

[Tyrendian]

Well LotD were in the 5th edition codex as well. Does that say much? If you were not excite for LotD in SM 5th, I think you will be just as excited for them in 6th. I think it's the same boring stuff they get, except they have a special rule. I forget what that rule is.

exactly what I was saying :)

[MajorWesJanson]

Well LotD were in the 5th edition codex as well. Does that say much? If you were not excite for LotD in SM 5th, I think you will be just as excited for them in 6th. I think it's the same boring stuff they get, except they have a special rule. I forget what that rule is.

Well, they dropped like 10 points a model, and ignore cover when shooting, so are much much more viable now than they were.

[joescalise]

so is there no big model like the eldar knight or the tau riptide for SM?

[The Imperial Fist]

so is there no big model like the eldar knight or the tau riptide for SM?
No, they seem to have Centurions instead of a Knight walker.

[The Imperial Fist]

well thats a start at least I am seriously thinking about starting a legion of damned army using some of these nice new sprues ( not centurions though they are ugly ) hope fully theyl have a half decent rule set this time to.

Paint your marines up as them and pick a parent Legion for chapter rules and I'm sure you'll be fine. The LotD squad is an elites choice so you can't really field them as an army that way.

[The Imperial Fist]

but looking at the pics I don't think the Devs will have power fists, at least not functionally - all the weapon barrels (HB looks close admittedly, but Lascannons are obvious) extend beyond the knuckles, so before your power fist makes contact with the enemy, you'll have stabbed them with your gun, probably to the point of snapping said barrel before your fist hits...

Good point. I'd only really paid attention to the heavy bolter and grav varieties, but yeah, the lascannon does extend too far. They do look like power fists though, will be interesting to see what the rules say.

[The Imperial Fist]

Just had another look on those 360(0) models and damn, even the grav and HB extend past fists.

[daboarder]

Thats never been an issue for obliterators or indeed many other weapons, I expect that they do indeed have powerfists.

[Tyrendian]

Thats never been an issue for obliterators or indeed many other weapons, I expect that they do indeed have powerfists.

mh yeah good point, although I always assumed they would just mutate the barrels away when trying to smack something...

[Mrchilidog]

Do you think they will 'update' the Dark Angels codex to add the Centurions and new razorbacks?

[RGilbert26]

No and what new razorbacks?

[The Imperial Fist]

Do you think they will 'update' the Dark Angels codex to add the Centurions and new razorbacks?
Do you mean the Hunter and Stalker? Judging by past versions, probably not - Dark Angels only just finally getting Flamestorm cannons for landraiders etc. I imagine it will be the same case for Centurions. Doesn't make much sense from a business standpoint, giving them to DAs would = more sales. But then DAs have plasma cannon totting terminators, mixed cc/shooty terminator squads, and plasma coming out of their ***** with bikes and landspeeders. None of which C:SM will get.

[guitarangry]

Do you think they will 'update' the Dark Angels codex to add the Centurions and new razorbacks?

I dont think they will, although it would be nice to have some for mine but may just add them in as an allied detachment.

[Cpt Codpiece]

Do you think they will 'update' the Dark Angels codex to add the Centurions and new razorbacks?

like the imperial fist said DA have their own stuff, but anyway can you really fit any more elites in a DA army?
why would they need these monstrosities? DA dont even get grav guns yet... until internet FAQ them in... but plasma spam is DA.

can you really see DA chasing anyone never mind their own in a centurion suit?
"and i shall know know fear EXTREME!"

[Mrchilidog]

I am still having a hard time wrapping myself around the Centurions. They are not mentioned in any existing fluff, and the Adeptus Mechanicus are well known for not researching any NEW technology. So, are Centurions found in some ancient STC that has never previously been referenced?

[kire]

I am still having a hard time wrapping myself around the Centurions. They are not mentioned in any existing fluff, and the Adeptus Mechanicus are well known for not researching any NEW technology. So, are Centurions found in some ancient STC that has never previously been referenced?

Centurions have been here the whole time we just forgot to mention them and/or dumb scribes called them terminators, same thing as master of the forge, assault cannon razorbacks, venerable dreadnoughts, sternguard, vanguard, scout bikers, thunderfire cannons, storm ravens, storm talons, and probably some outer stuff that got shoehorned in to the army before i started playing (i'm looking at you vindicators where were you in 1995?) this same thing always happens every edition.

[MajorWesJanson]

the Adeptus Mechanicus are well known for not researching any NEW technology.

A stereotype that is not true. There are plenty of examples of the Mechanicus doing research and developing new technologies and weapons.

[Galadren]

A stereotype that is not true. There are plenty of examples of the Mechanicus doing research and developing new technologies and weapons.

Indeed. Mechanicus researches new things all the time, they're just very slow in giving their official stamp of approval. Like centuries slow.

[daboarder]

Indeed. Mechanicus researches new things all the time, they're just very slow in giving their official stamp of approval. Like centuries slow.

Do you guys want to offer soem examples? What have you got? crusader and redeemer.....in 10000 years.

Even questors aren't about "developing new technology" they are about finding what was lost.

[Alan Wang]

I thought developing new technology is heresy...

[Houghten]

The Vindicator was developed during the Heresy, and later had its thunderer cannon swapped out for a demolisher.

[MajorWesJanson]

Do you guys want to offer soem examples? What have you got? crusader and redeemer.....in 10000 years.

Even questors aren't about "developing new technology" they are about finding what was lost.

Off the top of my head, Hellfire rounds, designed to deal with larger Tyranid creatures, which puts their development in late M41.

[madlib]

I thought developing new technology is heresy...


@Alan
No, only certain types of technology, like robots with AI that lack a biological component. Also little details in the fluff / background always change and from time to time things said in codicies or FW books are contradicted in BL novels for example. So "canon" is kind of fluid in the 40k universe.

[The Imperial Fist]

Do you guys want to offer soem examples? What have you got? crusader and redeemer.....in 10000 years.

Even questors aren't about "developing new technology" they are about finding what was lost.

And they weren't even the Mechanicum, they were the Templars and Salamanders respectively. I think "new" technology is seen as bad, which is why the age of development is now known as the Dark age of Technology. Rediscovering STC's and some tinkering of existing ones seems to be ok. I imagine Centurions (and Stalkers/Hunters) will have either been there for a long time and we neve heard of them, or will be newly (last 1000 years or so) rediscovered STCs. I do look forward to reading how/where they fit in.

[daboarder]

And yet, the unfettered hordes of chaos can't figure out how to take the lascannons off a land raider.

[Alan Wang]

Yep, I think ur right.
And speaks of Centurions ,and Stalkers and Hunters, it's like...
"Hey Tim, check this model! what? no no no! I didn't buy anything! I found it from my model pile!" lol