Space Marines Rumor Roundup

[Bigred]

Space Marines Rumor Roundup

Older Rumors (Pre March)

-Space Marines are coming in Q3 2013 after Eldar
-A larger Marine manned "Super-Dread" kit is coming
-Box Art and Codex printing well underway

via 75Hastings69 3-15-2013

"I suppose I could tell you there are some new units....... but that would be a bit too vague. Hmmm, expect rhino variants, and also a new "suit" smaller than a dread but bigger than a termie. Will that do to start the rumors off?"

via Frontline Gaming 6-9-2013

Well apparently they are going to break up the dex so it’s not ultra marines heavy, they will have more generic characters then bring out expansions with characters and paint jobs for different chapters, same with the Eldar

So you buy the codex, then get the white scars expansion that gives you upgrades, characters etc.

Oh prob going to be a large Contemptor dread as well.


via Puscifer 6-14-2013

Some stuff regarding the new Space Marines Codex:

It is the next one to be released, but I was not told about the release date.

The codex is not Ultramarines heavy. There will be a much broader spectrum of Chapters.

There will be supplements for the more famous chapters: Ultramarines, Imperial Fists and White Scars were the ones mentioned. White Scars are the first out the gate.

The cover of the new dex has apparently got Sicarius on the front, while the White Scar Codex has a bike squadron racing towards the enemy.

No clue on authors. Rumour is Ward, but hell, he's rumoured for all of them right?

No rules that I can give you, but you can expect to see loads of new weapons and squads. Possible inclusions are the Land Raider Terminus (I think that's what it's called - it's festooned with Lascannons), a bigger form of Terminator and a rather large Dreadnought that is similar to a Contemptor - only bigger.

via BoLS 6-17-2013

Regarding the new Space Marine "giant walker":
"Imagine if the current Space Marine dreadnought was the mommy and the Contemptor was the daddy - and the kid was enormous"


via BoLS 7-21-2013

Regarding the "larger terminators" - these models are described as being similar in aesthetic to the curving shapes of both the Contemptor and Tau Stealth suits. Bigger than current Terminators - but smaller than a Dreadnought.

Regarding the "big kit" - this model has been described as being the "lovechild of an existing Dreadnought, and a Contemptor - but ENORMOUS. It has also been described as a "Knight" with the following old EPIC images hinted at:4387

via Best_Pone 8-3-2013

Up for release in September is the new Codex: Space Marines.

- There will be 7 Ltd Ed varients. 6 of these will be covers for First Founding chapters, whilst the 7th will have Black Templars on the cover.

- New weapon family: Grav weapons. I believe these wound against the armour save (so terminators would be wounded as if they had a toughness of 2).

- First Founding chapters will be getting a substantial section each to themselves, so hopefully this can be looked as as Codex: Space Marines instead of Codex: Ultramarines. This will also show in a rule called Chapter Tactics, for which the effects depend on the chapter being played.

- There is a new armour type that at first glance looks to be somewhere between a terminator and a dreadnought - looking more closely, it appears to go over the marine's power armour however.
- This new armour can be armed in 2 ways, depending on the user. The devastator version has either a bolter array or missile launchers mounted on the chest armour, whilst the gauntlets can be armed with heavy bolters, lascannons or grav cannons. The assault version has a bolter array or frag launchers mounted on the chest armour, with assault drills mounted on the gauntlets.

- There are 2 new AA tanks. One tank veterans will already be familiar with as the Hunter, armed an AA missile launcher. The other tank mounts 2 tri-barreled turrets instead.

- There is a new tactical squad. Lots of options as you'd expect, but of particular interest will probably be the grav pistol and grav rifle.

- A new plastic Sternguard veteran squad.

- A new plastic Vanguard veteran squad.

- New plastic characters: a captain, a librarian and a chaplain.

via the internets 8-3-13

From an ancient GamesDay seminar. Maybe last Space Marine codex release.

44774478

Via Faeit 8-5-2013


White Dwarf has 3 new "not-terminators" on the cover painted in blue.


Via Faeit 8-6-2013

Tactical Squad Box
This box would only include 2 heavy weapons, and devastator boxes or resin direct only upgrades would need to be purchased for other heavy weapons.

Rhino/Razorback Box
...new razorback, which is split into two variants: assault and support; where assault would come with twin-linked heavy flamers, and TL assault cannons, and the support variant would have TL heavy bolters, TL lascannon and Las/Plas options.

The Rhino kit would be discontinued since it could be made from the Razorback kit.

Price increases for both kits

Via BoLS 8-7-2013

New Combo-box builds Tactical OR Sternguard
5 man box on 3 sprues, similar to the Blood Angels kits.

Shooting Weapons
6 heavy weapons (HB, HF, ML, PC, LC, MM)
2 flamers
2 hand flamers
2 plasmaguns
2 meltaguns
bolt pistols
? grav guns
bolters
grav rifle
plasma pistol
3 combi bolter bases
3 combi-plasma add-on bits
3 combi-melta add-on bits
3 combi-flamer add-on bits
3 storm bolters

Marine Bodies
5 Legs
7 Torsos
12 Heads
5 Backpacks
18 Pauldrons

Assault Weapons
Power sword
Power fist
Power maul
Lightning claw
Chainsword

Misc
Back banner
Many purity seals and other thematic bits

via Roly: 8-7-2013

Saw the new models last night, very nice. New chaplain, new Libby, the AA rhino, and those two new marine+ models. Very nice. V guard, not that interesting.single pose Libby is a stunner with its little cherub

The new marine+ models look like fat tech marines with actual dreadnought feet, heavy bolter/las cannon sling under the arms a la marneus, and either hurricane bolters on each side of the chest or missiles. Armour playing like a col Rhodes style war machine almost. The grav gun looks like something out of halo. The new chaplain is reminiscent of the old blood Angela chaplain, but with blowy scrolls like the apostle. The librarian standing on a rock is a stunner, the cherub thingies will be removing. The six barrelled auto cannon rhino looks bulkier too, with ground stabilisers looks solid. From the picture I'd say it will 99% have split fire. Each set of three has a separate turret. Different front end too.

Here's one thing to consider - at last count the following kits have been reported as being somehow part of the Space Marine release wave:

"Bigger Termys"
Tactical Squad
Assault Squad
Vanguard Vets
Sternguard
Rhino/Razorback
2 AA Tanks
New "hover" vehicle

Misc finecast characters
Giant Kit (Imperial Knight)

That is just a tremendous amount of kits - no way is all of that coming at release. Maybe some of it now and some later, or some is Apocalypse stuff. But that is way too much for any release window.

As I said, Something odd is occuring behind the scenes this rumor release window - and even the reliable rumormongers are flummoxed.

Via Faeit 8-7-2013


Space Marines Products - Prices
Space Marine Codex
176 pages!!!!! $58
by Robin Cruddace
Cover pic is a close up Ultra Marine pointing forward into battle

War Zone: Damnos
by Phil Kelly
68pages $33

Space Marine Stalker/Hunter
$65
The dual three-barreled Stalker and the Single large barreled Hunter
Stalker
Icarus Stormcannon Array. Dual turrets, can target independent targets.

Hunter
Skyspear Missile battery. Launch from single barrel.

Space Marine Reclusiam Command Squad
$90
Includes Razorback 5 man command squad and a space marine chaplin

Space Marine Captain
1 model $30

Space Marine Librarian
1 model $30

Space Marine Strikeforce
39 models $220

Space Marine Centurion Devastator/ Assault Squad
3 models $78

Centurion Devastator Squad
Shooting weapons mounted both on sides of torso and under each fist.
Fist weapons: HB, LC, Graviton Cannons
Torso weapons: Hurricane Bolters, ML

Centurion Assault Squad
Shooting weapons mounted both on sides of torso and close combat weapons under each fist.
Fist Weapons: Siege Drill w/Melta, or Flamer per arm.
Torso weapons: Hurricane Bolters, Ironclad Assault Launcher.


Space Marine Tactical Squad
10 models $40
-180 parts
3 Mk. 6 heads
1 Mk. 7 head
1 Mk. 8 chestplate

Space Marine Sternguard
5 models $50
-108 parts
5 variant bolters
8 combi-weapons
powerfist
powersword

Space Marine Vanguard
5 models $40
5 variant jump packs
4 LCs (pairs)
4 TH/SS (pairs)
1 grav pistol
1 power axe
1 relic blade



via 40kRadio (https://www.facebook.com/pages/40K-Radio/147396461962884) 8-7-2013

Centurions
Heavy support choice. Living marine in heavier armor. PF, LC underslung on arms, HB, and Grav weapon option available. A heavier terminator armor that a marine straps into. 40mm Bases.

Hunter
An AAA Rhino. Visually a hybrid of the Vindicator's reinforced hull with a top mounted dual 3-barreled cannon weapon array. Alternative weapon option looks like the EPIC miniature, and fires missiles.

Vanguard
Plastic kit - In action poses similar to Death Company kit. Many assault weapons options including: TH/SS, LCs, Relic Blades, and many head options.

Sternguard
Plastic kit - Old veterans who have seen it all in visual style. Drumfed bolters as on the current metal models, and full weapon options, including Combi-options.

Tactical Marines:
General update to the kit. Look for more aesthetic detail such as purity seals, bonding studs, and subtle pose alterations. Missile launcher matches the Devastator kit.

Chaplain:
Plastic Kit - Bolt Pistol/Crozius. helmet and exposed head options.

Librarian:
Plastic kit - Exposed head. Force Staff, and Cherub.


via DakkaDakka's Herr Dexter - 8-7-2013

Hey guys

I managed to get a deeper look into the upcoming White Dwarf which obviously showcases the new SM stuff. I promised not to take any pictures and since my possible future early insight into WD depends on it – I won’t
Take it as you wish, but this isn’t salt – this is what exactly is coming

BOOKS:
- Codex: Space Marines with a very nice picture of badass looking Space Marine (probably best C:SM cover so far)
- confirmed the 7 limited versions
- none showed in WD, all mentioned obviously as mail-order only
- small Apocalypse Warzone will also be released (unsure if it’s digital only or not) – Damnos (see the BL book “Fall of Damnos” – basicly Necrons vs. Ultramarines)

PLASTIC KITS:

Space Marine Captain & Space Marine Librarian (2 separate clamp-packs)
- not to confuse with multi-part customisable Space Marines Commander set which should stay around
- those are like Cadre Fireblade, Aspiring Champion etc… 1 pose, plastic
- Captain has Cato Sicarius-like helmet and lots of bling, has a very similar pose to Captain from AOBR, Power Sword and Combi-Grav
- Librarian has beard (a lot of SM beards + bald heads in this release) and a skull-cap thingy wihich makes him look a bit like… Merlin
- Librarian also has a power staff (or whatever you call that) held horizontally, and one ugly herub-like servitor cupid (creepy stuff)

Reclusiam Command Squad
- not sure if this replaces SM Command Squad kit
- contains the mentioned SM Command Squad (don’t see any changes here), a plastic Chaplain and… Razorback – all for 55£
- this definetly isn’t the prettiest Chaplain model out there but it has some nice bitz, nice big skully Crozius and 2 heads – one bald with Kano-like face implant and the other is a skull helmet (looks a bit iffy)
- he also has purity seals with massive ribbons/parchments blown by the wind

Sternguard Veterans
- A W E S O M E!
- all the best elements fromt heir old metal versions, long loincloths, tons of bling, ornaments on helmets and armor, seems to have lot of bitz
- finally we get plastic versions of combi-weapons, all seem to be here including the new Combi-Grav
- nice new plastic Heavy Flamer and Heavy Bolter (version with drum-mag)
- badass heads and poses (yap, another bald head with beard)
- sergeant has a “roman-mohawk” on his helmet (not the Sicarius one, other way around)
- 5 models in box

Vanguard Veterans
- slightly less bling then their on-foot veteran brothers
- nice ornaments on chainswords and power sword (relic/master-crafted versions?)
- mohawk head for sarge (like Lord Executioner, perhaps it’s a trend for jump-packers?)
- some nice aquila markings on jump packs
- awesome power-sword / relic blade
- not as jaw dropping as Sternguards, sadly
- 5 models in box

(NEW) Tactical Squad
- 10 models, price increased slightly (we could have seen that coming, couldn’t we?)
- not many changes here, will nicely mix with bits from old kit
- major addition is more head variants and new Grav-Gun and Grav-Pistol
- some new ornaments on backpacks and shoulder pads (not all, just few bits to make some difference among marines)
- interesting bits: Auspex is back! (but DA heralded that already), set of bolter/arms during reload (looks cool), badass Combi-Flamer, nice new (smaller) Power Fist
- I would suggest buying a box of Tactical Squad that’s currently in sale before next month (it’ll surely be gone by then) to have a wider array of bits (unless you already have tons of them)

Now let’s clear some rumors regarding new vehicles:
- NO new rhino kit, still the same, old, badly cast chassis with massive holes after you glue it :( (
- NO new versions of Razorback / Predator / Whirlwind – all stays the same apparently
- NO sign of Rhino-variants (but perhaps they just differ rule-wise)
- NO “Big Walker” – forget about Dreadknight / Riptide / Wraithknight counterpart for SM :((
- NO new Skimmers / Flyers (especially no sign of one that was mentioned in rumours recently)
- NO new Bikes, Landriders or Dreadnaughts :(
- basicly, unless I mention it as a kit above or below – it’s not getting any update / remake / new model

Stalker / Hunter
- the rumored dual-kit AA tank
- lots of new parts, side armor is massive and has some kind of pistons that seem to be pinning it to the ground
- front plate is also different from other vehicles on Rhino-chassis: Stalker / Hunter has one that looks a bit Heresy-era with a “bumper” that looks similarly to the one Landspeeder has (that belt-of-cubes bumper thing)

- Stalker is the one with dual 3-barrel autocannon-like guns, it also has a nice radar dish, really badass look
- it’s described as rapid-firing AA (guess it’s SM version of IG Hydra)
- now here’s big thing: it’s not twin-link! those are TWO SEPARATE guns that are mentioned to be able to shoot at TWO SEPARATE targets

- Hunter is the one that looks like that vintage SM Hunter tank – one massive AA turret barrel
- shoots “Skyspear Rockets” but no details on special rules here

Centurion Devastator Squad / Centurion Assault Squad
- the “Big Suits” everyone is talking about, apparently they are this release’s big spotlight
- Devastators are Heavy Support (duh!) and Assaults are… Fast Attack (what did you expect?)
- come in plastic kits, 3 models per box
- they really look like if the exoskelton is worn ON the Power Armour – their heads look super tiny
- they remind me more of power loader that Ripley piloted in Aliens movie than “child of contemptor and dread” as someone described
- they all seem to have same weapon in each hand and something mounted on the chest
- the Devastator options displayed contained Lascannons and Heavy Bolters
- the Assault options were Breaching Drills (like that arm FW’s Siege Dread has) with Stormbolters(?) attached, no other arm option shown
- the “chest weapon” apparently gave us choice of : frag lanuchers, mini-hurricane bolter (?!) and some rockets (chest mounted Typhoon ML?)
- it will take some time getting used to those models on battlefield but with their bulky simplicity they will surely be canon part of fluff in few years

That’s all I remember. Hope it will give you some idea / clear some things up
Cheers!

via 40KRadio's Facebook page 8-9-2013 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/40K-Radio/147396461962884?ref=br_tf)



Codex Space Marines Details
1. Centurion "devastator" come with Twin-Linked Heavy bolter and hurricane bolter for 60 pts. You can have up to 6 in a squad.

2. Legion of the Damned have flaming projectiles. All ranged attacks have ignore cover special rule.

3. Black Templars are in the book. They can not take some selections but have access to Centurions, Thunderfires, and so on. They have special rules for Chapter Tactics.

4.Chapter Tactics for the following chapters: Ultramarines, White Scars, Imperial Fist, Salamanders, Iron Hands, and Raven Guard. They have two special rules per choice.

Notes on Centurions:

Centurions can be taken as Elites or Heavy.

Heavy support are the devastator option. They come with twin-linked Heavy bolters and Hurricane bolters. Hurricane can be upgraded to missile and HB upgraded to Twin- Las cannon or Grav-cannon and grav-amp.

Can upgrade to omniscope which gives night fight and split fire special rules.

They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
Special Rules: Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and TSKNF.

Elites are the assault option. They come with Siege Drills at S9, twin-linked flamers and Ironclad assault launchers. They can upgrade flamers to meltas and assault launcher can be upgraded to hurricane bolters.

Can upgrade to omniscope which gives night fight and split fire special rules.

They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.

Special Rules: Move through cover, Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and TSKNF.

Supplemental Space Marine Codices
Ravenguard
Ultramarines
Salamanders
Imperial Fists
Iron Hands
White Scars
Black Templar

Space Marine Miniatures Roundup (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?33376-Space-Marines-Rumor-Roundup&p=336736&viewfull=1#post336736)

via 40KWarzone (http://40kwarzone.blogspot.com.au/2013/08/breaking-space-marine-new-rules-3.html) 8-12-2013


UNIT CHANGES
-Chaplains are HQ , W:2, A:2 and grant Zealot.
-Master of the Forge gains It Will Not Die
-Scouts drop 2 points, can take LS Storm as a dedicated transport.
-Tacticals drop 2 points.
-Devastators drop 2 points.
-Sternguard drop 3 points.
-Vanguard drop 1 point, jumppack option drops 7 points.
-Honour guard are cheaper.
-SM Bikes drop 4 points.
-Hunter/Stalker re both armed with s:7 weapons (Stalker heavy4, Hunter heavy1). The Hunter's weapon is AP:2 Armorbane.
-Command Squads may take bikes, and a bike-equipped Commander makes a SM Biker unit troops.
-Crusader Squads may take 2 power weapons per squad. Costed and equipped as Tacticals as standard. May swap out for BP/CCW for free. Max size 10 Initiates and 10 Neophytes.
-Centurions WS4 BS4 S5 T5 W2 I4 Ld8/9 Sv2, Squad size 3-6, each costed as a Predator.


CHAPTER ABILITIES
- Raven Guard have Stealth, may use jump packs in movement AND assault phase.
- Imperial Fists reroll '1s' to hit with standard bolters (Bolter Drill). Devatators/Centurions have Tank Hunters and +1 on the building damage table.
- Salamanders reroll failed to-wounds with flame weapons, and failed armor penetration rolls versus vehicles. Characters gain a free master crafted weapon. Vulkan is the only way to grant twin-linked meltas.
- Black Templars have Chapter Tactics options instead of Vows. The Emperor's Champion is an HQ choice for them only and chooses from either (reroll failed to-hits plus rending in challenges), or (gain Adamantium Will plus Crusader). No Librarians allowed.
- Ultramarines choose from one of the following donctrines:
a) Tactical - Re-roll ones, unless they're Tactical marines and they re-roll all shooting failed to hits.
b) Assault - Re-roll charge distance, unless they're Assault squads, Bikes, Attack bikes who gain Fleet.
c) Devstator - Re-roll on snap shots and overwatch, unless they're Devastators who gain Relentless (except when disembarking).
- White Scars bike equipped Captain makes 1 bike squad troops
- Successor Chapter use the Chapter Tactics of their Founding Chapter. Many Successor Chapters are listed by name.

NEW ITEMS
6 new Chapter Relics
Grav Weapons have Concussive

CHARACTERS
-Marneus Calgar may take 3 Warlord Traits and is pricier.
-Korsarro Khan grants Scout to mounted troops and bikes. He inflicts D3 Hammer of Wrath hits.
-Kayvan Shrike may Infiltrate with Jumppack units.
-Emperor's Champion equipped with AP:2 sword, armor is 2+/4+i
-High-Marshal Helbrecht grants Hatred and Fleet to Black Templars in the Assault phase once per game.
-Lysander returns with Eternal Warrior, Units in 12" re-roll on morale and pinning test.
-Grimaldus Grants Zealot to his unit.
-Several Named Characters retain USRs that affect their entire army.


Collated by The Emperor's Champion 8-13-2013


Every last scrap of info that I could gather, sorted, figured out, formatted, and rewritten for easier comprehension.
It took me like an hour and a half to type all of this up for the B&C, and I figured you guys over here might like it too....:o

Apologies for any weird stray bits of code. I cleaned it up like crazy, but the B&C's forum code apparently isn't completely compatible with BoLS's. *shrug*
Here's my original nice clean version of it: LINK (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/278011-new-codex-space-marines-rumor/?p=3420390)
[/color]

Credit to 40k Radio for tons of this info.

BIG GIANT COMPILATION POST [Mk I]

WARGEAR:
CHAPTER RELICS:

There are 6 different ones.
Two swords, one Bolter, set of armor, one Storm Shield and one banner
They range from 25pts to 65pts.
One Chapter Relic grants a 6+ Invulnerable Save. (It's unclear who benefits from the Save generated by the Relic)

NEW WEAPONS:

Graviton weapons - Have the*Concussive special rule, but are not Blast weapons.
Hunter Multi-Launcher (or whatever it is now called) -*S:7 AP:2 Heavy1, Armorbane
Stalker's anti-aircraft guns - S:7 AP:? Heavy4
Siege Drills - S:9 AP:2 Melee, Specialist Weapon, Armorbane

CHAPTER TRAITS & SPECIAL CHARACTERS:
ULTRAMARINES CHAPTER TRAITS:

Ultramarines armies may choose 1 of the following three doctrines:

Tactical -*The Tactical detachment re-rolls ones, unless they're Tactical Marines, in which case they re-roll all failed To Hit rolls in the Shooting Phase.
Assault -*The Assault detachment re-rolls charge ranges, unless they're Assault Squads, Bikes, or Attack Bikes, in which case they get Fleet.
Devastator - The Devastator detachment get re-rolls on Snap Shots and Overwatch shots, unless they're Devastators, in which case they gain Relentless (as long as they're not disembarking from a transport in the Movement Phase).

[/*]

MARNEUS CALGAR:

Is now 275pts
Is equipped with Artificer Armour by default. May upgrade to the Armour Of Antilochus for +10pts.
Marneus Calgar can take three Warlord traits.
The Armour Of Antilochus - his Terminator Armor - does not prevent him from preforming a Sweeping Advance, and it has a built in Teleport Homer.

VARRO TIGURIUS:

Tigurius is Mastery Level 3.
He*knows all Psychic Disciplines.
He can re-roll his dice when determining his psychic powers.
He can re-roll Reserves rolls(even successful ones).
The Hood Of Hellfire is now a Psychic Hood that lets him re-roll failed Psychic Tests.

ORTAN CASSIUS:

5 points more expensive.

CATO SICARIUS:

15 points cheaper.

TORIAS TELION:

Telion has the same points cost.
​Updated with sniper rules for 6th Edition.

ANTARO CHRONUS:

Chronus is cheaper.
He increases the BS of his tank by +1.

*
*
SALAMANDER CHAPTER TRAITS:

Get to re-roll any failed Armor Saves from flame based weapons.*(Flamers, Meltas, etc, as per page 56 of the Rulebook)
Their flame weapons*(Flamers, Meltas, etc, as per page 56 of the Rulebook)*get to re-roll any failed To-Wound rolls or Armor Penetration rolls that fail to cause a Penetrating or Glancing Hit.
Any Character gets to Mastercraft one weapon for free.

VULKAN HE'STAN:

Vulkan gives the Mastercrafted ability to Meltaguns, Combi-Meltas, and Multi-Meltas.
Otherwise essentially the same.

*
*
RAVEN GUARD CHAPTER TRAITS:

They all get the Stealth USR.
They get the ability to use their Jump Packs in the Movement and Assault Phase.

KAYVAAN SHRIKE:

Shrike can only Infiltrate with Jump Infantry.
????

*
*
WHITE SCARS CHAPTER TRAITS:

+1 to Jink saves
Autopass Dangerous Terrain tests
+1 to Hammer Of Wrath attacks
All White Scars units gain the Hit & Run USR, except for Terminators and Centurions.

KOR'SARRO KAHN:

Khan gives Bikes and Dedicated Transports in the White Scars detachment the Scout USR.
Moondraken inflicts D3 Hammer Of Wrath hits.

*
*
IMPERIAL FISTS CHAPTER TRAITS:

Bolter Drill - All Imperial Fists reroll '1s' to hit with standard Bolters.
Devastators*and Centurions have the*Tank Hunters*USR and gain +1 on the Building Damage Table.

DARNATH LYSANDER:

Costs +30pts more
Has the Eternal Warrior USR.
Units within 12" re-roll failed Morale and Pinning Tests.

PEDRO KANTOR:

Pedro Kantor makes Sternguard Veteran Squads into Scoring units.

*
*
IRON HANDS CHAPTER TRAITS:

All Iron Hands have the Feel No Pain USR on a 6+.
All Characters and vehicles have the It Will Not Die USR.
Iron Hands get a 1+ to Blessing Of The Omnissiah

*
*
BLACK TEMPLARS CHAPTER TRAITS:

A Black Templars army may choose one of the following:

"Accept any Challenge, No Matter what the Odds" -*Gain the ability to re-roll To-Hits rolls, and gain the Rending USR when you're in challenges.
"Crusaders" - Gain the*Adamantium Will and Crusader USR's.


The Black Templars retain their current Ally Matrix.
The Black Templars may not take Librarians.
Black Templars may take Crusader Squads consisting of up to 10 Initiates (i.e. Tactical Marines) and up to 10 Neophytes (i.e. Scouts).
Black Templar Initiates may exchange their Bolters for Close Combat Weapons for free.
A Crusader Squad may purchase up to 2 Power Weapons, if you take a Sword Brother (i.e. the Veteran Sergeant upgrade).

HELBRECHT:

Once per game Helbrect can grant a Black Templars unit the Hatred and Fleet USR's for an Assault Phase.
May take a unit of Honor Guard.

GRIMAULDUS:

Grants the Zealot USR to any unit he joins.
If a unit is within 6" of Grimauldus' Servitors, they gain a 6+ Invulnerable Save.
Grimauldus has the*It will not Die*USR.
He has Wounds:3 and Attacks:3

THE EMPEROR'S CHAMPION:

The Black Sword (one-handed stance) - S:4 AP:2 Melee, Mastercrafted
The Black Sword (two-handed stance) - S:6 AP:2 Melee, Mastercrafted, Two-Handed
The Armour Of Faith - Grants The Emperor's Champion a 2+ Armor Save and a 4+ Invulnerable Save.
The Emperor's Champion is an HQ choice and DOES take up an HQ slot.
He may be the Warlord.
The Emperor's Champion has Initiative:5 and Attacks:2 (not counting weapons).

*
*
HQ UNITS:
*
CHAPTER MASTER:

Now has Attacks:4 and Wounds:4.
Still has Orbital Bombardment.

CAPTAIN:

Equipping the Captain with a Bike allows a single 5-man Bike Squad to be taken as a Troops choice.

CHAPLAIN:

There is only one level of Chaplain.
Now has Attacks:2 and Wounds:2.
Chaplain grants Zealot to any squad he joins.

LIBRARIAN:

?

MASTER OF THE FORGE:

Now has the*It Will Not Die USR.

HONOR GUARD:

Cheaper.

COMMAND SQUADS:

Can have Bikes
Cannot have Jump Packs
Cannot have Terminator Armor

ELITES UNITS:
*
STERNGUARD VETERANS:

3 points cheaper per Marine.
Access to Graviton weapons.

TACTICAL TERMINATORS/ASSAULT TERMINATORS:

Thunderhammers & Stormshields cost +5pts per Assault Terminator to upgrade.
There is no way to make Terminators into Troops choices or Scoring units.

TECHMARINES:

No news to report.

ASSAULT CENTURIONS:
WS:4 BS:4*S:5*T:5*W:2*I:4*Ld:8/9*Sv:2+*InvSv: -
*
Unit Size: 3 - 190pts
- May purchase up to 3 additional Centurions for 60pts each
*
Standard equipment:
- Siege Drills (S9 AP2 Melee, Specialist Weapon, Armorbane)
- Twin-Linked Flamers
- Ironclad Assault Launcher
*
Weapon Upgrades: *(ALL UPGRADES COST BETWEEN 10-20pts)
- Twin-Linked Flamers may be upgraded to Twin-Linked Meltaguns
- Ironclad Assault Launcher may be upgraded to Hurricane Bolters
*
Upgrades: (ALL UPGRADES COST BETWEEN 10-20pts)
- Can purchase Omniscope which gives Night Fight and Split Fire special rules.
*
Dedicated Transport:
- They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
*
Special Rules:
- Move Through Cover
- Slow and Purposeful
- Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase)
- Very Bulky
- Chapter Tactics
- And They Shall Know No Fear
*
DREADNOUGHT:

No news to report.

VENERABLE DREADNOUGHT:

No news to report.

IRONCLAD DREADNOUGHT:

No news to report.

TROOPS UNITS:

TACTICAL SQUADS:

2 points cheaper per Marine (14pts each).
Access to a Graviton Rifle as a Special Weapon option.

SCOUT SQUADS:

2 points cheaper per Scout.
May take Land Speeder Storms as Dedicated Transports.

FAST ATTACK UNITS:
*
VANGUARD VETERANS:

Heroic Intervention:*Negates the penalty for Disordered Charge and the Sergeant auto-passes Initiative checks for Glorious Intervention.
They CANNOT charge after Deep Striking anymore.
1 point cheaper per Marine.[/*]
Jump Pack upgrade is 7 points cheaper per Marine.

BIKE SQUADS:

4 points cheaper per Marine.

ATTACK BIKES:

Possibly 4 points cheaper.

SCOUT BIKES:

No news to report.

HEAVY SUPPORT UNITS:
*
DEVASTATOR SQUADS:

2 points cheaper per Marine.

DEVASTATOR CENTURIONS:
WS:4 BS:4*S:5*T:5*W:2*I:4*Ld:8/9*Sv:2+*InvSv: -
*
Unit Size: 3 - 190pts
- May purchase up to 3 additional Centurions for 60pts each
*
Standard equipment:
- Twin-linked Heavy Bolters and Hurricane Bolters
*
Weapon Upgrades: (ALL UPGRADES COST BETWEEN 10-20pts)
- Hurricane Bolters can be upgraded to Missile Launchers
- Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters may be upgraded to Twin-Linked Lascannons
- Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters may be upgraded to Grav-cannon and Grav-amp
*
Upgrades: (ALL UPGRADES COST BETWEEN 10-20pts)
- Can purchase Omniscope which gives Night Fight and Split Fire special rules.
*
Dedicated Transport:
- They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
*
Special Rules:
- Slow and Purposeful
- Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase)
- Very Bulky
- Chapter Tactics
- And They Shall Know No Fear
*
THUNDERFIRE CANNONS:

Unchanged in rules and points cost.

VEHICLES:
*
RHINOS/RAZORBACKS:

No news to report.

DROP PODS:

Transport capacity has dropped back down to 10.

STORMRAVEN:

Same point cost.

STORMTALON:

No news to report.

LAND SPEEDER/LAND SPEEDER TORNADO/LAND SPEEDER TYPHOON:

No news to report.

LAND SPEEDER STORM:

The Land Speeder Storm is now a Dedicated Transport for Scouts.

PREDATOR DESTRUCTOR/ANNIHILATOR:

Cheaper.

VINDICATOR SIEGE TANK:

No news to report.

WHIRLWIND ARTILLERY TANK:

No news to report.

STALKER ANTI-AIR TANK:

AV 12/12/10
S:7 AP:? Heavy4
Does NOT have Interceptor.

HUNTER*ANTI-AIR TANK:

AV 12/12/10
S:7 AP:2 Heavy1, Armorbane
Does NOT have*Interceptor.

LAND RAIDER:

Passenger Capacity - 10

LAND RAIDER REDEEMER:

Passenger Capacity - 12

LAND RAIDER CRUSADER:

​Passenger Capacity - 16


40KWarzone 8-14-2013

GRAV WEAPONS
Grav Pistol: Range 12" AP:2, Concussive
Grav Rifle: 18" salvo 2/3 AP:2, Concussive
Grav Cannon: 24" salvo 3/5 AP:2, Concussive

Grav Amp: Re-roll failed to-wounds and armor penetration for Grav weapons.

via 40K Warzone (http://40kwarzone.blogspot.com.au/20...6-come-on.html) (edited for clarity)


Assault Marines - drop 1 pt
Land Speeder Typhoon - drops 15 pts
Attack Bikes - raises 5 pts
Predator AC +HB Sponsons - raises 10 pts
Predator LC +LC Sponsons - drops 25 pts
Hunter weapon: 60" range
Stalker weapon: 48" range
Captain - drops 10 pts

Detachments must be from the same chapter.
No weapons in the codex possess Interceptor.
Raven Guard grant Stealth to their vehicles as well.
Space Marine Sergeants/Veteran Sergeants function as per codex Dark Angels

The Emperor's Champion UBER Space Marine Roundup 8-16-2013 (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/278011-new-codex-space-marines-rumor/page-85#entry3423612)


GENERAL RULES:
Veteran Sergeants are an upgrade again.
Can't use Special Characters from other Chapters or mix Chapters in a detachment. (further clarification needed)
Space Marines have their own Warlord Traits.

WARGEAR:
CHAPTER RELICS:
There are 6 different ones.
Two swords, one Bolter, set of armor, one Storm Shield and one banner
They range from 25pts to 65pts.
One Chapter Relic grants a 6+ Invulnerable Save. (It's unclear who benefits from the Save generated by the Relic)
Relics are not Chapter-specific.

NEW WEAPONS:
Grav weapons - Have the Concussive special rule, but are not Blast weapons.
Grav weapons wound the target based on their Armor Save. For example a terminator has a 2+ save so they would be wounded on a die roll of 2+. Against vehicles roll a die, 1-5 does nothing and on a 6 the vehicle is Immobilized and loses a Hull Point.

GRAV WEAPONS
Grav Pistol: Range 12" AP:2, Concussive
Grav Rifle: 18" salvo 2/3 AP:2, Concussive
Grav Cannon: 24" salvo 3/5 AP:2, Concussive

Grav Amp: Re-roll failed To-Wound and Armor Penetration rolls for Grav weapons.

Grav-Pistols and Grav-Rifles are available to all units that haves access to Pistol upgrades and Special Weapons, respectively.
Grav-Cannons are only available to Devastator Centurions.
Hunter Multi-Launcher (or whatever it is now called) - 60" S:7 AP:2 Heavy1, Armorbane, Skyfire
Stalker's anti-aircraft guns - 48" S:7 AP:4 Heavy4, Skyfire -Able to split fire.
Siege Drills - S:9 AP:2 Melee, Specialist Weapon, Armorbane

CURRENT WEAPONS:
Auxiliary Grenade Launcher - is now 24" Rapid-Fire
Shotguns are S4 Assault 2

CHAPTER TRAITS & SPECIAL CHARACTERS (Chapter Traits seem to also apply to vehicles unless otherwise noted):
ULTRAMARINES CHAPTER TRAITS:
Ultramarines armies may choose 1 of the following three doctrines:
Tactical - The Tactical detachment re-rolls ones, unless they're Tactical Marines, in which case they re-roll all failed To Hit rolls in the Shooting Phase.
Assault - The Assault detachment re-rolls charge ranges, unless they're Assault Squads, Bikes, or Attack Bikes, in which case they get Fleet.
Devastator - The Devastator detachment get re-rolls on Snap Shots and Overwatch shots, unless they're Devastators, in which case they gain Relentless (as long as they're not disembarking from a transport in the Movement Phase).

MARNEUS AUGUSTUS CALGAR:
Is now 275pts
Is equipped with Artificer Armour by default. May upgrade to the Armour Of Antilochus for +10pts.
Marneus Calgar can take three Warlord traits. Calgar rolls 3x on the Warlord Traits and rerolls any duplicates.
The Armour Of Antilochus - his Terminator Armor - does not prevent him from preforming a Sweeping Advance, and it has a built in Teleport Homer.

VARRO TIGURIUS:
Tigurius is Mastery Level 3.
He knows all Psychic Disciplines.
He can re-roll his dice when determining his psychic powers.
He can re-roll Reserves rolls(even successful ones).
The Hood Of Hellfire is now a Psychic Hood that lets him re-roll failed Psychic Tests.
Costs 165 points (down from 230 points).
Tigurius has the same stats.

ORTAN CASSIUS:
5 points more expensive.

CATO SICARIUS:
15 points cheaper.
Grants a +1 to Reserves rolls and no longer seizes the initiative on a 5 or 6.

TORIAS TELION:
Telion has the same points cost.
​Updated with sniper rules for 6th Edition.

ANTARO CHRONUS:
Chronus is cheaper.
He increases the BS of his tank by +1.

SALAMANDER CHAPTER TRAITS:
Get to re-roll any failed Armor Saves from flame based weapons. (Flamers, Meltas, etc, as per page 56 of the Rulebook)
Their flame weapons (Flamers, Meltas, etc, as per page 56 of the Rulebook) get to re-roll any failed To-Wound rolls or Armor Penetration rolls that fail to cause a Penetrating or Glancing Hit.
Any Character gets to Mastercraft one weapon for free.

VULKAN HE'STAN:
Vulkan gives the Mastercrafted ability to Meltaguns, Combi-Meltas, and Multi-Meltas.
Otherwise essentially the same.
Is still 190 points.
No longer makes Thunder Hammers become Mastercrafted.


RAVEN GUARD CHAPTER TRAITS:
They all get the Stealth USR.
They get the ability to use their Jump Packs in the Movement and Assault Phase.

KAYVAAN SHRIKE:
Shrike can only Infiltrate with Jump Infantry.
????

WHITE SCARS CHAPTER TRAITS:
+1 to Jink saves
Autopass Dangerous Terrain tests
+1 to Hammer Of Wrath attacks
All White Scars units gain the Hit & Run USR, except for Terminators and Centurions.

KOR'SARRO KAHN:
Khan gives Bikes and Dedicated Transports in the White Scars detachment the Scout USR.
Moondraken inflicts D3 Hammer Of Wrath hits.
Kor'Sarro Kahn costs 125 points.
Moondraken costs 25 points.

IMPERIAL FISTS CHAPTER TRAITS:
Bolter Drill - All Imperial Fists reroll '1s' to hit with Bolters (It works on every Bolter on page 56 of the Rulebook.).
Devastators and Centurions have the Tank Hunters USR and gain +1 on the Building Damage Table.

DARNATH LYSANDER:
Costs +30pts more
Has the Eternal Warrior USR.
Units within 12" re-roll failed Morale and Pinning Tests.
Lysander has the same stats.

PEDRO KANTOR:
Pedro Kantor makes Sternguard Veteran Squads into Scoring units.
Costs 186 points (11 point increase).
Kantor keeps his 12" +1A bubble
Kantor now has W4 and A4

IRON HANDS CHAPTER TRAITS:
All Iron Hands have the Feel No Pain USR on a 6+.
All Characters and vehicles have the It Will Not Die USR.
Iron Hands get a 1+ to Blessing Of The Omnissiah

BLACK TEMPLARS CHAPTER TRAITS:
A Black Templars army may choose one of the following:
"Accept any Challenge, No Matter what the Odds" - Gain the ability to re-roll To-Hits rolls, and gain the Rending USR when you're in challenges.
"Crusaders" - Gain the Adamantium Will and Crusader USR's.
The Black Templars retain their current Ally Matrix.
The Black Templars may not take Librarians.
Black Templars may take Crusader Squads consisting of up to 10 Initiates (i.e. Tactical Marines) and up to 10 Neophytes (i.e. Scouts).
Black Templar Initiates may exchange their Bolters for Close Combat Weapons for free.
A Crusader Squad may purchase up to 2 Power Weapons or Power Fists, if you take a Sword Brother (i.e. the Veteran Sergeant upgrade).

HELBRECHT:
Once per game Helbrect can grant a Black Templars unit the Hatred and Fleet USR's for an Assault Phase.
May take a unit of Honor Guard.
Helbrecht does not get Orbital Bombardment
Helbrecht now has W4 and A4

GRIMAULDUS:
Grants the Zealot USR to any unit he joins.
If a unit is within 6" of Grimauldus' Servitors, they gain a 6+ Invulnerable Save.
Grimauldus has the It will not Die USR.
He has Wounds:3 and Attacks:3

THE EMPEROR'S CHAMPION:
The Black Sword (one-handed stance) - S:4 AP:2 Melee, Mastercrafted
The Black Sword (two-handed stance) - S:6 AP:2 Melee, Mastercrafted, Two-Handed
The Armour Of Faith - Grants The Emperor's Champion a 2+ Armor Save and a 4+ Invulnerable Save.
The Emperor's Champion is an HQ choice and DOES take up an HQ slot.
He may be the Warlord.
The Emperor's Champion has Initiative:5 and Attacks:2 (not counting weapons).

HQ UNITS:

CHAPTER MASTER:
Now has Attacks:4 and Wounds:4.
Still has Orbital Bombardment.

CAPTAIN:
Equipping the Captain with a Bike allows a single 5-8 man Bike Squad to be taken as a Troops choice.
Captain is now 90pts

CHAPLAIN:
There is only one level of Chaplain.
Now has Attacks:2 and Wounds:2.
Chaplain grants Zealot to any squad he joins.

LIBRARIAN:
They use the Psychic Powers out of the Rulebook.

MASTER OF THE FORGE:
Now has the It Will Not Die USR.

HONOR GUARD:
10 points cheaper per Marine. Now 25 points.
Honour Guard retain Artificer Armour and Power Weapons

COMMAND SQUADS:
Can have Bikes
Cannot have Jump Packs
Cannot have Terminator Armor

ELITES UNITS:

STERNGUARD VETERANS:
3 points cheaper per Marine.
Access to Grav weapons.

VANGUARD VETERANS:
Have been moved from the Fast Attack section to the Elites section.
Heroic Intervention: Negates the penalty for Disordered Charge and the Sergeant auto-passes Initiative checks for Glorious Intervention.
They CANNOT charge after Deep Striking anymore.
1 point cheaper per Marine.
Jump Pack upgrade is 7 points cheaper per Marine.

TACTICAL TERMINATORS/ASSAULT TERMINATORS:
Thunderhammers & Stormshields cost +5pts per Assault Terminator to upgrade.
Points costs for either type of Terminator otherwise unchanged.
There is no way to make Terminators into Troops choices or Scoring units.

TECHMARINES:
No news to report.

ASSAULT CENTURIONS:
WS:4 BS:4 S:5 T:5 W:2 I:4 A:1 Ld:8/9 Sv:2+ InvSv: -

Unit Size: 3 - 190pts
- May purchase up to 3 additional Centurions for 60pts each

Standard equipment:
- Siege Drills (S9 AP2 Melee, Specialist Weapon, Armorbane)
- Twin-Linked Flamers
- Ironclad Assault Launcher

Weapon Upgrades: (ALL UPGRADES COST BETWEEN 10-20pts)
- Twin-Linked Flamers may be upgraded to Twin-Linked Meltaguns
- Ironclad Assault Launcher may be upgraded to Hurricane Bolters

Upgrades: (ALL UPGRADES COST BETWEEN 10-20pts)
- Can purchase Omniscope which gives Night Fight and Split Fire special rules.

Dedicated Transport:
- They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.

Special Rules:
- Move Through Cover
- Slow and Purposeful
- Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase)
- Very Bulky
- Chapter Tactics
- And They Shall Know No Fear

DREADNOUGHT:
No news to report.

VENERABLE DREADNOUGHT:
No news to report.

IRONCLAD DREADNOUGHT:
No news to report.

LEGION OF THE DAMNED:
Legion Of the Damned are cheaper and all of their shooting ignores cover.

TROOPS UNITS:

TACTICAL SQUADS:
2 points cheaper per Marine (14pts each).
Access to a Grav-Rifle as a Special Weapon option.

SCOUT SQUADS:
2 points cheaper per Scout.
May take Land Speeder Storms as Dedicated Transports.

FAST ATTACK UNITS:

ASSAULT SQUADS:
Assault Marines are 17pts.

BIKE SQUADS:
4 points cheaper per Marine.

ATTACK BIKES:
Attack Bikes are 45pts.

SCOUT BIKES:
Scout Bikes still have their mines.

HEAVY SUPPORT UNITS:

DEVASTATOR SQUADS:
2 points cheaper per Marine.
Flakk Missiles can be bought for +10pts.

DEVASTATOR CENTURIONS:
WS:4 BS:4 S:5 T:5 W:2 I:4 A:1 Ld:8/9 Sv:2+ InvSv: -

Unit Size: 3 - 190pts
- May purchase up to 3 additional Centurions for 60pts each

Standard equipment:
- Twin-linked Heavy Bolters and Hurricane Bolters

Weapon Upgrades: (ALL UPGRADES COST BETWEEN 10-20pts)
- Hurricane Bolters can be upgraded to Missile Launchers
- Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters may be upgraded to Twin-Linked Lascannons
- Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters may be upgraded to Grav-Cannon and Grav-Amp

Upgrades: (ALL UPGRADES COST BETWEEN 10-20pts)
- Can purchase Omniscope which gives Night Fight and Split Fire special rules.

Dedicated Transport:
- They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.

Special Rules:
- Slow and Purposeful
- Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase)
- Very Bulky
- Chapter Tactics
- And They Shall Know No Fear

THUNDERFIRE CANNONS:
Unchanged in rules and points cost.

VEHICLES:

RHINOS/RAZORBACKS:
No news to report.

DROP PODS:
Transport capacity has dropped back down to 10.

STORMRAVEN:
Same point cost.

STORMTALON:
No news to report.

LAND SPEEDER/LAND SPEEDER TORNADO/LAND SPEEDER TYPHOON:
Land Speeders have the same points costs.
Land Speeder Typhoons are 75pts.

LAND SPEEDER STORM:
The Land Speeder Storm is now a Dedicated Transport for Scouts.

PREDATOR DESTRUCTOR/ANNIHILATOR:
Predator Destructor is 95pts
Predator Annihilator is 140pts.

VINDICATOR SIEGE TANK:
No news to report.

WHIRLWIND ARTILLERY TANK:
20 points cheaper.
Now 65 points.

STALKER ANTI-AIR TANK:
AV 12/12/10
48" S:7 AP:4 Heavy4, Skyfire
Able to split fire.
Does NOT have Interceptor.

HUNTER ANTI-AIR TANK:
AV 12/12/10
60" S:7 AP:2 Heavy1, Armorbane, Skyfire
Does NOT have Interceptor.

LAND RAIDER:
Passenger Capacity - 10

LAND RAIDER REDEEMER:
Passenger Capacity - 12

LAND RAIDER CRUSADER:
​Passenger Capacity - 16

via 40KRadio 8-21-2013


Q: Is it true that what you guys have is an early playtest material, not the actual printed C:SM codex?
A: I have the final print copy.

Q: Are their any new Special Characters?
A: No.

Q: Is honour guard still 3-10 models, or only available as 5 models similar to command squads or BA honour guard?
A: 3-10

Q: Is relic blade still S+2 AP3 two-handed?
A: Yes

Q: Do Legion of the Damned get Soulblaze like in Apoc?
A: No

Q: Can the LotD still Deep Strike?
A: Yes

Q: Does the LotD still have Slow and Purposeful?
A: Yes

Q: Can the LotD be joined by characters?
A: No

Q: Does Cassius have the Zealot rule?
A: Yes

Q: Do the AA tanks have an alternate fire mode that lets them shoot at ground targets?
A: No, only one firing mode

Q: Can child chapters take the SCs of their parent chapters?
A: No (those are unique to their chapter)

Q: Can Pedro and Lysander be in the same army without using allies?
A: No (CF is one chapter, IF is another)

Q: Are Techmarines slotless HQs like the DA book?
A: Yes

Q: Can Captains still take Artificer Armor?
A: Yes

Q: Do Sternguard combi-weapons still cost 5 points?
A: No, they're 10 points

Q: Does Helbrecht have any other special rules besides the once a game rule that gives fleet/hatred?
A: No

Q: What is the cost of a five man scout squad with a Vet Sergeant?
A: 65 Points

Q: Any changes on Kantor's rules?
A: Basically the same

Q: Do bikes and centurions get combat squads rule?
A: Bikes yes, Centurions no.

Q: Is there is any vehicle able to get grav weapons?
A: No

Q: Are neophytes of crusade squad an independent squad that can join the main unit as it was rumoured, or crusade squads are a full unit option?
A: No, like last BT Dex.

Q: Is there option for crusade squads of getting two special weapons?
A: No.

Q: If one crusader squads takes a CLR as transport, it has any point cost reduction?
A: I don't have the BT Dex to check.

Q: Have black templars access to biker scouts?
A: Yes. They have access to everything except Librarians.

Q: Marneus Calgar "God of War" rule is still in there? Has it been replaced by the 3 warlord traits rule?
A: It's different and cool.

Q: How many points cost a grav-gun as special weapon on a tac squad?
A: 15 points.

Q: How many points are the lascannon and missle launcher upgrades on the Centurion Devastators?
A: Lascannon is 10, Missile is 10

Q: How much do Relic Blades Cost?
A: Chapter Master and Captain get it for 25 points.

Q: Does the codex include a Power Field Generator (DA Wargear that generates a 4++ for a unit)?
A: No

Q: Can Tactical Marines take a Special Weapon at 5 models?
A: A Squad of 5 can have a special weapon or heavy weapon.

Q: Can Calgar still take up to 3 units of Honor Guard?
A: Yes

Q: Additionally, does his still have the rule that lets him choose to pass or fail morale checks at will?
A: Yes

Q: Are Black Templar Characters required and/or accept challenges?
A: Not required, but they will be sick in challenges

Q: Bikes squads that can be made troops, a minimum of 5 models or 5 models max? there is some conflicting sounding information so people just want to confirm.
A: At least 5 (max 9 with Attack Bike) and if your Captain or Chapter Master is on a bike you make take them as troops.

Q: So Chapter Masters on bikes can unlock bike squads of at least 5 models as troops too?
A: Yes.

Q: Do LotD still have their 3++ save?
A: Yes

Q: Can the Bikers take the grav gun options?
A: Yes

Q: Can Scout Squads take locator beacons or teleport homes?
A: Teleport Homers.

Q: Does Shrike have any other rules?
A: No.

Q: Do Chapter Tactics cost anything?
A: No.

Q: The Stalker, does it have 4 shots total that it can split fire with or does each gun fire 4 shots each?
A: 4 shots each

Q: Do any of the SC's have Stubborn or Fearless?
A: No

Q: Does the Emperor's Champion take up an HQ slot?
A: Yes

Q: Does Sicarius still re-roll his Sieze Initiative attempts?
A: No

Q: Any change to Razorbacks?
A: I believe they went up 5 points

Q: Does the Ultramarines Tactical Chapter Tactic affect Sternguard special ammo?
A: I believe so.

Q: Also, are bike upgrades for Space Marine Captains cheaper?
A: I think the upgrade stayed the same.

Q: Are normal bikes cheaper?
A: Yes

Q: Are all these answers from an early rendition or playtest and subject to change? Or are these concrete answers from a full codex?
A: The book I have looks like the final. If this is a fake then a ton of effort has gone into this.

Q: Is there any way to assault from vehicles besides assault ramps on land raiders and stormravens?
A: The Land Speeder Storm.

Q: How do Camo Cloaks work?
A: +1 to cover, or 6+ cover if not in cover

Q: Can any of the HQs get Camo Cloaks?
A: No

Q: Is there a way to get Eternal Warrior?
A: Yes

Q: Can any of the HQs buy any special rules?
A: No

Q: Do the HQs still have access to Hellfire rounds?
A: No

Q: In 5th Edition you were encouraged to use SCs as "Count-As" special characters to give you some new/interesting combinations. Is there anything in the new book that allows you to do this?
A: You can no longer do that due to Chapter Tactics.

Q: BT High Marshal (Chapter Master equivalent?) Helbrecht has no Orbital Bombardment, but BT can take a "regular" Chapter Master and get the OB from him?
A: Correct, Helbrecht does not have it, but regular Chapter Masters do.

Q: Have Razorback weapon upgrades gotten cheaper, more expensive or stayed the same?
A: Some went down.

Q: How much do Relic Blades cost for Honor Guard?
A: 10 points.

Q: You mentioned that the Raven Guard Chapter Tactics have a caveat. Do all the Chapter Tactics have special caveats in how they can be used?
A: No, there are other rules for RG we didn't mention.

Q: Do these caveats require certain minumum requirements of units or wargear?
A: No.

Q: Are the Drop Pods priced like the DA ones (to include upgrades)?
A: Similiar.

Q: When making an army, are you required to take a chapter trait?
A: Yes.

Q: Is the Exorcists Chapter covered in the list of different Marine chapters/successors in the book?
A: Yes, there is a small blurb, but the do not have a parent chapter.

Q: Are any of these caveats negative things (like the old 4th edition flaws)?
A: No. The caveat is we have not revealed all the abilities for some chapters.

Q: Is there any clue you can give us on the nature of these caveats?
A: There are many layers to the CTs (no negatives).

Q: Did the points cost change for Power Weapons?
A: Generally the same, per units choices.

Q: Did the points cost change for Power Fists?
A: PF same.

Q: How much do Crusader Squads pay for Power Weapons?
A: 15.

Q: Can the Initiate in a Crusader Squad take a Power Fist?
A: Yes at 25 points.

Q: How does the limit for the extra power weapon in the Crusader squad work. Is it just 1 Initiate or is it 1 per X number of models in the squad?
A: 1 Initiate and then upgrade one to Sword Brother and you can get another.


via 40KRadio and Talkwargaming 8-25-2013


240 Points for 3 Centurions with Grav-Cannons/Grav-Amps and Hurricane Bolters (for those who hate math, that means it's a 20 point upgrade for Grav-Cannon/Grav-Amps each).
Assault Centurions have Move Through Cover
Codex: Space Marines is largely in line with Codex: Dark Angels points wise.
176 Pages in their copy of the codex (same as rumored)
Hunter has "Savant-Lock". When shooting at a flyer you put a marker on it for each miss. The markers stay on the flyer until it leaves the table or is destroyed. At the beginning of every friendly shooting phase you roll for those markers. On a 5 or a 6 that missle hits.
Artwook is nice, and book is Space Marines more in a general form. More updated fluff, not just the rehashed fluff.
Some of the classic Black and White was colored, but a lot of new art too.
Book is in sections for each founding chapter (plus the Black Templars)) and a large number of the Successor Chapters to help players know who should be using what rules.
Salamanders don't really have any successor chapters because their chapter had suffered a large number of casualties so they have a larger number of Marines in their chapter.
"Equivilant to Forge World background" in terms of fluff.
Forgeworld fluff included in the codex.

Warlord Traits (Only One Chart for the Codex):
1. Angel of Death - Warlord and his unit have the Fear special rule.
2. Imperium Sword - One use only. Declare that your Warlord is using this at the start of one of your assualt phases. The Warlord and his unit have the Furious Charge special rule until the end of the turn.
3. Storm of Fire - One use only. Declare that your Warlord is using this at the start of one of your shooting phases. For the duration of that phase a single friendly unit from Codex: Space Marines within 12" of the Warlord may re-roll any failed to-hit rolls.
4. Rites of War - When taking morale tests friendly units from Codex: Space Marines within 12" of the Warlord use his characteristic instead of their own.
5. Iron Resolve - When determining your assault results add +1 to your total if the Warlord is locked in that combat.
6. Champion of Humanity - If your Warlord causes the enemy Warlord to be removed from play in a challenge he scores D3 extra victory points in addition in the usual amount of points given for slaying the enemy Warlord in this scenario. Note that killing the enemy Warlord in a sweeping advance does not reward these extra victory points.


Chapter Tactics
Successor Chapters - You use whatever chapter tactics of your parent chapter. The ONLY Exception is the Black Templar.
Homebrew - You can pick any tactic you want and use the Special Characters of that chapter. Those characters have to use the same Chapter Tactics as the same Chapter their from.
Allies - "A Space Marine Detachment that has one set of Chapter Tactics MAY ally with another Space Marine Detachment with a different set of Chapter Tactics, Ultramarines and Raven Guard for example. For purposes of the Allies rules these allies are treated as being from two different codexes and are treated as Battle Brothers. Note that you may field models from two different chapters that have the same Chapter Tactics, such as Ultramarines and Praetors of Orpheus in the same detachment. These chapters are so closely affiliated that they count as a single army on the battlefield."
COUNT AS: If you want to use Vulkan in a Ultramarines army you have to use the Salamander Chapter Tactics. So you CAN do "count-as" but you lock yourself into their Chapter Tactics. In short, Special Characters are locked to their specific Chapter Tactics

Ultramarines - Combat Doctrine: This detachment can utilize each of the following combat doctrines once per game. To do so at the start of your turn you state which combat doctrine you wish to use, if any, until the start of your next turn. You can only use one combat doctrine per turn.

Tactical: Units in this detachment re-roll ones while shooting, unless they're tactical marines and they re-roll all failed to hit rolls in the shooting phase.
Assault: Units in this detachment can re-roll their charge range. Assault squads, bikes, or attack bikes instead have the fleet rule.
Devastator: Units in this detachment may re-rolls to-hit on snap shots, including overwatch shots, in addition models in this detachment's Devastator squads have the relentless unless they disembarked from a transport in their movement phase.
White Scars - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME

Born in the Saddle: Models in this detachment with the Bike Unit Type automatically pass Dangerous Terrain tests, and recieve a +1 to their Jink Cover Saves. In addition add 1 to their Strength when resolving their Hammer of Wrath hits.
Fight on the Move: Models in this Detachment have the Hit and Run Special Rule. Note that this does not include models in Terminator Armor, Devastator Centurions or Assault Centurions.
Imperial Fists - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME

Bolter Drill: Models in this detachment may re-roll all to-hit rolls of 1 made with a bolt pistol, boltgun, stormbolter, heavy bolters, or combi-weapons that are firing as boltguns. This rule does not apply to Helfire, Kraken, Vengence or Dragonfire rounds.

Siegemasters: Models in this detachment in Devastator squads and Centurion Devastator squads have the Tank Hunter special rule and add +1 when rolling on the building damage table.

Black Templars - BOTH RULES ALL TIME
Accept Any Challenges, No Matter the Odds: When engaged in a challenge, Black Templar Characters reroll all failed to-hit rolls, and have the Rending Special Rule.
Crusaders: Black Templars have the Crusader and Adamantium Will Special Rules. In addition Black Templars have access to a special unit called a Crusader Squad.

Iron Hands - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME
The Flesh is Weak: Models in this detachment have the Feel no Pain on a 6+ Special Rule. Note that if they benefit from more than one instance of Feel no Pain they use the best version available.
Machine Empathy: All vehicles and characters in this detachment have the It Will Not Die special rule even though vehicles do not have Chapter Tactic special rules. Furthermore, Techmarines and Masters of the Forge in this detachment add +1 to their Blessing of the Omnissiah rolls.

Salamanders - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME
Flamecraft: Models in this detachment can re-roll their saving throws against wounds caused by flamer weapons as defined by the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook. Furthermore, flame weapons used by models in this detachment re-roll failed to-wound rolls and armor penetration rolls that don't cause a glancing or a penetrating hit.
Master Artisan: During the army selection each character in this detachment may upgrade one of his weapons, even one they have purchased as an upgrade, to have the Mastercrafted Special Rule at no additional cost.

Raven Guard - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME
Strike from the Shadows: Models in this detachment have the Scout Special Rule. In addition, on the first game turn, models in this detachment have the Stealth Special Rule. Note that units that include models with the Bulky or Very Bulky Special Rules do not benefit from either rule.
Wings of Deliverance: Jump Infantry Models in this detachment may use their Jump Packs in both the movement and assault phases of the same turn. Futhermore, they must re-roll all failed to-wound rolls caused by their Hammer of Wrath hits.

Special Characters:

Marneus Calgar:
+25 Points
Artificer Armor standard (2+)
God of War: May use a single Combat Doctrine twice per game
Titanic Might: Re-rolls all armor penetrating hits in close combat. He may reroll glancing hits to attempt to get a penetrating hit. Must accept the second roll even if it is worse than the first.
Weapons and Ammo still the same. Terminator Armor still has Frag and Krak Grenades. Retain his Teleport Homer.
Terminator Armor is 10 points and doesn't prevent sweeping advances.Warlord Trait: Rolls 3 times on the Warlord Table, rerolling doubles, and chooses a single Warlord Trait.

Captain Cato Sicarius:
-15 points
Surprise Attack: +1 to Reserve Rolls
Weapons still the same
Battle-forged Heros: Pick a Tactical Squad and they gain Counter-Attack, Infiltrate or Scout.
May still use the Coup-de-Grace with his sword.
Lost Rites of Battle
Warlord Trait: Imperium Sword

Tigirius:
-65 points
+1 Wound
Master Psyker: May re-roll any or all of his rolls to choose which powers he knows. He has access to all the powers.
ML3
Hood of Hellfire: Psychic Hood that allows you to re-roll failed psychic tests
Rod of Tigiruis: Same as before with the addition of Soulblaze
Gift of Prescience: If your army contains Tigirius you may choose to re-roll reserves and apply the result to units of the same attachement.
Warlord Trait: Storm of Fire

Cassius:
Zealot
All equipment the same
Warlord Trait: Angel of Death

Telion:
Chapter Tactics: Ultramarines
Same points cost
Same rules

Sergeant Chronus:
-20 points
+1LD
His vehicle gains It Will not Die

Khan:
-35 points (bike is still 20 point upgrade)
Bike does D3 Hammer of Wrath hits
Furious Charge
If Khan is your warlord friendly models with the Chapter Tactics White Scars special rule that are bikes or have dedicated transports have the Scout special rule.
Khan makes all bike squads who are 5 bikes or more count as troop choices.
Warlord Trait: Champion of Humanity

Vulkan:
The Forgefather: If Vulkan is your warlord, all meltas, multi-meltas and combi-meltas in this detachment become twin-linked.
Lost Digital Weapons
No longer Master Crafts Thunderhammers
Warlord Trait: Iron Resolve

Shrike:
-10 points
Stealth
Before deploying Shrike can only join a Jump Infantry unit
Lost Fleet
Weapons stayed the same
Warlord Trait: Angel of Death

Lysander:
+30 Points
No more Bolter Defenses
Icon of Obstinancey: All models with the Imperial Fist Chapter Tactics re-roll failed morale and pinning checks
Same wargear
Warlord Trait: Champion of Humanity

Chapter Master Pedro Kantor:
+1 Attack
Oath of Rynn: If Chapter Master Kantor is your Warlord all models in Crimson Fist detachments have the Preferred Enemy (Orks) Special Rule. Furthermore, all such models within 12" of Kantor have +1 Attack while he lives. This bonus does not affector Kantor, and is not cimulative with the similar bonuses that the Chapter Banner gives.
Still has Hold the Line: Crimson Fist Sternguard Veterans are scoring
Same Wargear and points
Warlord Trait: Iron Resolve

Helbrecht:
+5 points
+1 WS
Rites of Battle - Gone
Crusade of Wrath: Once per game, during the Assault Phase, all models with the Black Templar Chapter Tactics gain Hatred and Fleet until the end of the phase.
Sword of the High Marshalls is the same (+D3 attack on the charge)

Grimaldus:
-10 Points
-1 BS
+1 Wound
-1 Attack
It will Not Die (replaced "Only in Death Does Duty End")
Zealot
Relics of Hellsreach: Any Black Templar of a servitor in 6" gains a 6++ Invunerable save.
Unmatched Zeal: Black Templar models within of 6" of Chaplain of Grimaldus have the Zealot special rule.

Emperor's Champion:
Uses HQ Slot
+50 Points
2+/4++
Black Sword: AP2, Mastercrafted
Combat Stances: Smite the Unclean - +2 Strength, Black Sword is two-handed and unwieldy; Slay the Heretic - Rolls of 6s to wound are Instant Death
Bolt Pistol gives extra attack (unless using Smite the Unclean)

A Quick Summary of what Black Templars Gained and Lost (this list may not be complete):
Losses:
- No More Vows
- No More Marshalls or Castellans
- No More Terminator Command Squads
- No More Master of Sanctity/Reclessiarchy
- Sword Brethren are no longer units
- No More 2 Heavy Weapons in a 5 man Terminator Squad
- No More special rule upgrades (Tank Hunter, ect)
- No More Storm Shields on Assault Squads
- No More extra power weapons in bike squad
- No More Fearless in Close Combat
- No More Righteous Zeal
- Some Flavor
- Most Heavy Weapons +5 more
- No More Power of the Machine Spirt upgrade
Gains:
+ Chapter Master and Captains
+ Honor Guard
+ Regular Chaplains
+ Master of the Forge
+ Tactical Squads
+ Scout Squads
+ Land Speeder Storm
+ Vanguard
+ Sternguard
+ Ironclad Dreadnoughts
+ Centurions (Assault and Devastator)
+ Scout Bikes
+ Devastators
+ Whirlwinds
+ Hunter
+ Stalker
+ Land Raider Redeemer
+ Thunderfire Cannon
+ Crusader Squad keeps Land Raider Crusader as a Dedicated Transport
+ Initiates are 5 points cheaper (counting Frag and Krak Grenade upgrades)
+ Sword Brother option in Crusader Squad
+ Keep Initiate Power Weapon/Fist option
+ Neophyte leadership increased to Ld 8
+ Neophyte Shotguns S4
+ Crusader Squad keeps Pistol and Chainsword option
+ Crusader Squad Organization stays the same

The formal company rollout has begun.

Games Workshop has announced Space Marines!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3nJRNed94Q

Available 8-31-2013

[isotope99]

If you assume 2 months of apocalypse (July/Aug) and a break for something fantasy, I'd have thought October was most likely. That would technically be after Q3 but only just. Otherwise a Sep release would 5 months out of 6 40K, which seems a bit high.

December will presumably be another hobbit wave so Sep/Oct/Nov are the options.

[Mr Mystery]

Not Ultramarine, but has Ultramarine on cover?

Given those blue guys are literally the codex chapter, not sure I buy that particular rumour....

[Mkvenner]

Larger Terminators, eh? You had my curiosity, but now you have my attention.

[HsojVvad]

Larger Terminators, eh? You had my curiosity, but now you have my attention.

3...2...1... I just hope it's not like it was years ago, with Dark Angles, Chaos SM and Eldar complaining that the SM went in a different more powerfull direction like last time.

[Deadlift]

End of September preview, just in time for UK Gamesday, release for 1st week Oct. Just like 2008. My 2cents.

[Wrath of Azkaellon]

End of September preview, just in time for UK Gamesday, release for 1st week Oct. Just like 2008. My 2cents.

Seems reasonable. :)

[chicop76]

Wish they do space wolves since they still don't have a flyer and to nerf the anti psyker powers.

[Defenestratus]

Larger Terminators, eh? You had my curiosity, but now you have my attention.

1+ armor.

Only AP1 guns can hurt it.

[rle68]

Wish they do space wolves since they still don't have a flyer and to nerf the anti psyker powers.

keep your flyers leave njal alone .. lol

[Kawauso]

keep your flyers leave njal alone .. lol

I want a Wolfraven that fires Wolfstrike Missiles. D:

[Learn2Eel]

I am very interested to see how this codex fares. It will definitely be a slight on Dark Angels if they don't do it right.

[Kawauso]

I am very interested to see how this codex fares. It will definitely be a slight on Dark Angels if they don't do it right.

I'll be surprised if it turns out much different from the Eldar or...really any of the 6th ed books so far.

But like the Eldar, SM already have a huge range, and they even have access to aircraft...any new kits will likely just be for novelty's sake or updating old kits (as with the Eldar kits apart from their flier), and the actual rules adjustments needed for SM are pretty minor... I suspect it will just be a lot of minor adjustments to make things feel 'fresh' again and try to balance out the choices in the FoC slots.

[Learn2Eel]

It is hard to say as it could very well be the first Ward codex, but I do agree and I hope that it keeps up the standard.

[chicop76]

keep your flyers leave njal alone .. lol

Nah get rid of that +3/+4 cancel psychic powers at 2ft. Once that is gone my powers wil be free.

[eldargal]

No clue on authors. Rumour is Ward, but hell, he's rumoured for all of them right?
I like this person.

[Learn2Eel]

Nah get rid of that +3/+4 cancel psychic powers at 2ft. Once that is gone my powers wil be free.

I know a Space Wolf player who believes they should keep it in some form. I was like, dude, did you see what happened to Eldar and anyone with a psychic hood? Lol.

[desert_hack]

1+ armor.

Only AP1 guns can hurt it.

I would think it would either be a mini monstrous creature, with higher than average toughness and an extra wound, or else have an AV10.

[desert_hack]

It is hard to say as it could very well be the first Ward codex, but I do agree and I hope that it keeps up the standard.

I actually hope it is Ward. Despite what the haters say, he's actually by far the best rules writer. His last Space Marine codex is his magnum opus, and quite possibly the very best rules supplement that has ever come out of GW (aside from perhaps the new Tau).

Most of the stick he gets is in fluff writing, but now there has been a clear division between rules writers and fluff writers at GW HQ (I know this for fact, btw), we shouldn't see any of those

[Spikey McTorture]

Wish they do space wolves since they still don't have a flyer and to nerf the anti psyker powers.

Yeah, Space Wolves are OP as F**k so you shouldn't be complaining. There are codexes that are much more in need of an update, like Sisters of Battle. The only update Space Wolves should get is a big fat nerf.

[chicop76]

Yeah, Space Wolves are OP as F**k so you shouldn't be complaining. There are codexes that are much more in need of an update, like Sisters of Battle. The only update Space Wolves should get is a big fat nerf.

Ok, so you agree with me that Space Wolves needs a new codex asap. I just want that 2ft aura to be nerfed and I'll be happy.

[Mr Mystery]

New kit ponderings.....

Dreadnought. Existing plastic one is pretty naff, and missing at least one weapon option.
New kit 1.
New kit 2.
Plastic......Librarian I reckon.


Then I go blank.....

[Arkhan Land]

I wouldn't be too suprised at the idea of a seperate ultras dex. Maybe new codex for space marines will lack special characters that were more chapter specific. Ultras throughout all editions have an entirely heroicly unique Chapter master, Standard Bearer Capatain of 1st and 2nd company, Head librarian, Head Chaplain, chaplain of 3rd company, and Head Scoutmaster. Not to mention their unique unit of Tyrannic war veterans (from days past). We could see rules for a land raider maximus too mayhaps?

Codex aside, wouldnt mind seeing new plastic LC+TLP or TLAC turrets for razors

[Kawauso]

New kit ponderings.....

Dreadnought. Existing plastic one is pretty naff, and missing at least one weapon option.


Missing several, actually:
Multi-melta
Twin-linked Heavy Flamer
Twin-linked Autocannon (either side)
Plasma Cannon
Twin-linked Heavy Bolter

It would be pretty awesome for a revamped dreadnought kit with all the options (and pose-able legs) to be released, but I won't hold my breath...
GW's more keen on making shiny new kits than updating old ones, it seems, even when they sometimes really need it.

Which is frustrating. =/
I like new toys as much as the next guy but there are some plastic and resin kits out that that really call out for an update - it was great that the Eldar got their new wraith kits but damn, Warp Spiders and Eldar Jetbikes and Swooping Hawks need a facelift.

[Power Klawz]

What I really don't understand is, if they were going to do these supplemental codexes a la Iyanden in the first place, why did they release Dark Angels as a stand alone dex? Why not just come out the gate with Codex space marines and release Dark Angels as a supplement at the same time?

Ah well, guess it doesn't really matter. Just a bit perplexing.

Not really understanding this "bigger than bread box, smaller than a dreadnought" thing. I'm guessing it could be redesigned terminators that are just really big, that'd be really awesome. Adding new unit types to the all ready crowded space marines list seems superfluous in the extreme. It would also take the prestige away from terminators, which have been the premier elite unit in the game since its inception.

"Like terminators, BUT BETTER!" does not intrigue me.

It would also be pretty cool to see a new dreadnought with more options and whatnot. Hell you could count dreads as MC's if you really wanted to, since everyone seems to be getting a MC and its almost justifiable with dreadnoughts. (Although not very likely since DA still have vehicle dreads.)

Looking at the DA release you had a few big shiny kits in the flyers and the wacky land speeder thing. SM all ready have their flyer models so they're going to need a big wacky kit. Giant MC dread for no raisins it is.

Still, I hope we don't see fat terminators as a thing and its simply a terminator redesign, the current models are pretty boring anyways.

[Bigred]

I'm thinking that the new units are just that - new units we haven't seen. GW's big problem these days is so many folks have fully fleshed out armies.

If they make termys that are dripping in detail - I'm still not buying them as I own about 40 fully painted ones.

But a NEW unit with new abilities (and probably undercosted about 10%) is something I can't ignore.

On Tau for example, while I liked the new broadsides, my 9 fully painted ones are just fine. But the Riptide was a mandatory purchase.

[Mr Mystery]

True.

Though given the packed out nature of Marines, I'm struggling to think what could be added without diluting the theme, or being a rehash of an existing unit...

Unless they dip further into relics from the Heresy, like the additional Predator variants.

[Lexington]

via Puscifer 6-14-2013
No clue on authors. Rumour is Ward, but hell, he's rumoured for all of them right?
General "ugh, Ward" concerns aside, I really hope Vetock's got this one. His Dark Angels book got the sort of synergy and maneuverability the current Marine book tries for, but doesn't quite have.

[Power Klawz]

You know apart from the horrendous fluff, I rather like Ward's space marine codex, I feel he'd do an ok job as long as he reigned it in for 6th. Especially if they're introducing some ridiculous new massive somethingorother, he's great at over the top rules.

Just get someone else to do the fluff, and never let him near another necron codex again. And make sure he's got a stern editor the next time he gets near Grey Knights.

Also I don't think that whole "everyone has humongous collections and won't buy resculpts" argument is indicative of the entire fanbase, or even the majority. A lot of them are younger people starting their first army, the cooler looking the model the more likely it is to sell. A lot of us have been in the hobby a long time and are still yearning for such mundane things as CSM resculpts for their basic troops and *shiver* those god awful old chaos terminators. I'd throw a lot of money at GW if they could bring the entire CSM model line up to the level of recent sculpts, those chosen in the new boxed set are amazing looking, imagine that level of detail on a multi-part plastic kit and my wallet starts screaming in agony.

[Aramel]

1+ armor.

Only AP1 guns can hurt it.

Well, that would certainly explain why Monofilament is AP 1 when you roll a 6 to wound. I assumed it was that way just for fluff reasons, but I suppose there is a miniscule chance it was a prelude to 1+ armour, though it seems very unlikely. Then again, so was the ability to run and shoot, or shoot and run (much love for battle focus).

[Power Klawz]

Well, that would certainly explain why Monofilament is AP 1 when you roll a 6 to wound. I assumed it was that way just for fluff reasons, but I suppose there is a miniscule chance it was a prelude to 1+ armour, though it seems very unlikely. Then again, so was the ability to run and shoot, or shoot and run (much love for battle focus).

Ap1 actually gives you bonuses when you roll for penetration effect on vehicles, otherwise its identical to AP2 for all other purposes.

There will never be a 1+ armor in 40k. That's silly. I don't think there will ever be a 2+ that ignores ap2 either, as this is almost equally silly. You might as well have a 2+ invulnerable, which I believe they've specifically stated to be impossible in the rules somewhere but I'm not 100%.

If they really do go with the macho terminator idea it will probably be something they pull wholesale from their nether regions with no basis whatsoever in any existing fluff, so its a crap shoot as to what they'll actually do.

I mean, regular run of the mill terminators are wearing suits of armor based on original designs meant to withstand the pressure within a plasma reactor, so basically they're built to be able to stand on the sun. I don't know how you get more effective than that by just going to the gym or adding some spinning rims.

[Lord Krungharr]

I want a Wolfraven that fires Wolfstrike Missiles. D:

What about a flying Monstrous raven that spits Fenrisian wolves out of its mouth? If they hit, the unit is engaged in combat w 2D6 wolves.

[Aramel]

Actually Monofilament specifically states "wounds" just like Bladestorm, so neither weapons will ever benefit from AP 1 or or 2 for tank penetration rolls. Also, both Dark Eldar and Daemons have easy access (Daemons much less) to 2+ invulnerables. I don't think it would be outlandish for the rumored new, slightly bigger terminator models to have 1+ saves and be available only for Codex Marines.

[Lord Krungharr]

I'm pretty sure I remember in the BRB is says 'a 1 always fails' on saving throws (good thing my Tzeentch Daemons get to reroll those :) . But rerollable invul saves and/or 2+ armor saves, now that would be something within rule contexts and very hard to kill. Or those new bigger Termies will just be T6 like Wraithlords or something, perhaps immune to melta guns because of reinforced ceramite like the Storm Ravens are.

Maybe they'll have an Angry Marines supplement, with a cannon that shoots angry Space Marines at the enemy, much like the rumored Monstrous Raven that shoots Fenrisian wolves.

[chicop76]

Ap1 actually gives you bonuses when you roll for penetration effect on vehicles, otherwise its identical to AP2 for all other purposes.

There will never be a 1+ armor in 40k. That's silly. I don't think there will ever be a 2+ that ignores ap2 either, as this is almost equally silly. You might as well have a 2+ invulnerable, which I believe they've specifically stated to be impossible in the rules somewhere but I'm not 100%.

If they really do go with the macho terminator idea it will probably be something they pull wholesale from their nether regions with no basis whatsoever in any existing fluff, so its a crap shoot as to what they'll actually do.

I mean, regular run of the mill terminators are wearing suits of armor based on original designs meant to withstand the pressure within a plasma reactor, so basically they're built to be able to stand on the sun. I don't know how you get more effective than that by just going to the gym or adding some spinning rims.

You must not play against Daemons at all. They have several ways of getting +2 invulnerable saves.

A. Daemons have a +5 invulnerable
B. Grimoire adds +2 to invulnerable save, so usually a +3 invulnerable

1. Fateweaver has a +4 invulnerable save and True names and he has a +2 invulnerable save, also since he re rolls 1s that turns tha into a +2 re rollable invulnerable save.

2. 10 on the warp storm table give all daemons a +4 invulnerable save. Give a Lord of Change +2 to invulnerable and now he has +2 re rollable invulnerable saves, and you thought a BloodThirster was bad. This guy can have 11 attacks on the charge by the way at strength 7 possible ws 9 and I 9. Prescience is free so expect re rolls to hit.

3. Divination power Forewarning gives a unit a +4 invulnerable save, add in true names and give it to a Tzeentch Soul Grinder it will than have a +2 re rollable save.

4. I almost forgot. Archon's get a+2 invulnerable save with war gear. As long as they don't fail they will be ok, would be awesome with fortune, since fortune works with them.

5. And the Ward Staff for Grey Knights. Grey Knights in combat, usually a character can get a +2 invulnerable save in combat.

#1 is rather easy to do. Need to tarpit a unit throw a re rollable +2 invulnerable save bird at it.

#2 I get it once or twice a game, de to having Fateweaver re roll one dice or re rolling on the warp storm table. Still doesn't happen often.

#3. All I can say the more Tzeentch they are running the more likely it will happen. It happens more often than #2. Throw in #2 with #3 you can expect a turn or 2 in a game with models with +2 invulnerable saves.

I usually give my hounds +2 invulnerale saves due to #3 or #2. If I get both than that means I can have one unit with +3 invulnerable saves and another with +2 invulnerable saves.

Taking allies it becomes possible to do 1-3 to Chaos Space Marines, or any other Daemon models really, like Khain. The problem is Mark of Tzeentch models can only be +3 invulnerable at best. Although Daemons of Tzeentch don't have that problem :).

Besides having Daemons, Daemon allies, or an Archon than you can't have a +2 invulnerale save.

Saint Celestine due to faith in the old witch hunter codex used to get a +2 invulnerable save, or your cannoness when they was broken could get a +2 invulnerable in that codex as well.

That is all I remember that can or used to have +2 invulnerable saves. I almost forgot aout greyknights.

[chicop76]

I'm pretty sure I remember in the BRB is says 'a 1 always fails' on saving throws (good thing my Tzeentch Daemons get to reroll those :) . But rerollable invul saves and/or 2+ armor saves, now that would be something within rule contexts and very hard to kill. Or those new bigger Termies will just be T6 like Wraithlords or something, perhaps immune to melta guns because of reinforced ceramite like the Storm Ravens are.

Maybe they'll have an Angry Marines supplement, with a cannon that shoots angry Space Marines at the enemy, much like the rumored Monstrous Raven that shoots Fenrisian wolves.

Shooting marines at someone makes sense, shooting wolves at someone is just plain silly.

[bfmusashi]

I hope one of the kits looks enough like Lagann I put it on top of a Dreadknight.

[Mr Mystery]

2+ invulnerable?

Dark Eldar anyone?

[chicop76]

2+ invulnerable?

Dark Eldar anyone?

Dark Eldar, Daemons, Daemons in other books with Daemons as allies, Grey Knights in combat, and that's about it.

[Power Klawz]

Well I said I wasn't sure about it damn.

But yeah, ok... they'd just give the unit a 2+ invulnerable then instead of some farcical 1+ armor save.

[Deadlift]

Well, that would certainly explain why Monofilament is AP 1 when you roll a 6 to wound. I assumed it was that way just for fluff reasons, but I suppose there is a miniscule chance it was a prelude to 1+ armour, though it seems very unlikely. Then again, so was the ability to run and shoot, or shoot and run (much love for battle focus).

I am quite sure he was being facetious :)

[chicop76]

Well I said I wasn't sure about it damn.

But yeah, ok... they'd just give the unit a 2+ invulnerable then instead of some farcical 1+ armor save.

They shouldn't auto get +2 invulnerable saves. With all the mention units it's not guarenteed, or if they fail they lose it, or have to be in combat. Their is always a condition.

That is why the nerf on witchhunters since if you can take 2 canonness in a squad and to get +2 invulnerable you rolled on squad size having 2 ment you always got the +2 invulnerable no matter what, unless you could manage to kill one, good luck with that. It was the same with taking 12 + sisters for the rending which ment you always get it. Rolling 2 are higher is an auto pass or rolling 12 or lower.

I wish they left my book a lone :(.

[Mkvenner]

3...2...1... I just hope it's not like it was years ago, with Dark Angles, Chaos SM and Eldar complaining that the SM went in a different more powerfull direction like last time.
It feels like that way with the Dark Angels at last. They seem to be the weakest of the bunch.

1+ armor.

Only AP1 guns can hurt it.
Immune to melta too, right? They got the storm raven armor.

[Kawauso]

What about a flying Monstrous raven that spits Fenrisian wolves out of its mouth? If they hit, the unit is engaged in combat w 2D6 wolves.

Ladies and gentlemen, this man can see into your soul and unearth what it is you most desire.

[Lexington]

You know apart from the horrendous fluff, I rather like Ward's space marine codex, I feel he'd do an ok job as long as he reigned it in for 6th.
Oh, it's not a bad book by any means, but it tries to do things that Vetock's DA book did better later on. I'd also just prefer Ward continue to be generally absent from 40K, not only to keep him away from the background, but because of his poor tendency towards "one-upping" previous works - f'rex, when he took that Space Marine Codex and simply made the Blood Angels better.

[Power Klawz]

Well given that GW doesn't seem to ever want to stop trying to sell one army in 16 colors and calling them all unique I don't think you can ever get away from the stigma that vanilla marines are just like the other flavors, only worse. They might have been trying to get away from this by releasing DA first, but only time and new dexes will tell.

The new BA dex really needs to get rid of sternguard and vanguard vets in my opinion though, those should really be vanilla marines' unique units and they shouldn't be shared by any of the other chapters. I'm glad they were absent from the DA dex. Also the different dreadnought variants should be exclusive to the ultra-bros. Give BA their furiosos and librarian dreads, let vanilla keep the ironclad and whatnot.

[The Emperor's Champion]

1+ armor.

Only AP1 guns can hurt it.

Actually, no.

Honestly, I've always said Terminator Armour should technically be 1+.
There are a few reasons for this:

1 - Terminator Armor in 2E was insanely more survivable than it is now.
2 - It would give AP1 weapons a legitimate reason for AP1 to exist outside of vehicles.
3 - Terminator Armour was specifically designed to survive Plasma...so it shouldn't instantly fail to Plasma's AP2.
4 - a dice roll of a 1 ALWAYS FAILS*

The net result would be as follows: They still only survive on a 2+, but they still get that 2+ Armour Save against everything except AP1 weapons.


*unless that's a change I missed in 6E....

[The Emperor's Champion]

His fluff is an abomination, but yea, Matt Ward IS actually the best rules writer there is.
It's actually the new Necron Codex that is his masterpiece.

The thing is completely brilliant (aside from Flayed Ones).

[eldargal]

1 - Terminator Armor in 2E was insanely more survivable than it is now.

I stopped reading there. 2nd edition with a hybrid RPG and tabletop wargame with completely different standards. Terminator armour was more survivable but then a lot of weapons were much more destructive. Wanting things to be changed based on 2nd edition rules is a recipe for disaster, terminators are more than durable enough for teh current ruleset they just need some tweaks.

[daboarder]

pretty sure shuriken weapons went through Power armour like a hot knife through butter in 2nd, and even brutalised terminator plate.

[chicop76]

I remember space hulk and terminator armour was like wet paper. Might as well didn't even bother wearing it.

However in fluff 10 space marines should be 2k points and 5 terminators is almost unheard off. It's like almos all the terminators man.

That being said I do think terminators are a bit easier to kill than they should be. Making them only vulnerable to ap 1 weapons however is a bit much. Armies like nids wouldn't be able to kill one unless shot by a zonathorpe.

I feel more of a slight nerf than a buff toward terminators however. They already get crazy things like +3 invulnerable saves and feel no pain. What more do you want really.

[TheyStoleMyName!]

I'm just extremely happy to hear about a White Scars book...As a Scars player I was extremely fearful that the new SM book would make Biker armies hard to do and push me towards playing Ravenwing...I always enjoyed the Codex biker army as a more in-your-face aggressive take, with a beefy command squad designed to charge in and wreck face compared to the more hit-and-fade skirmish style army that Ravenwing is.

[DarkLink]

About the only Terminators that aren't overpriced are pretty much THSS Terminators and Paladins. Deathwing get some nice bonuses, but they pay for them so it doesn't really help, and it's the fact that they can mix in THSS's that makes them decent.

[Power Klawz]

Green terminators are the best terminators anyways. (Gon' get tellyportas next dex, I feel it in my Waaaagh!)

[Wolfshade]

Actually, no.

Honestly, I've always said Terminator Armour should technically be 1+.
There are a few reasons for this:

1 - Terminator Armor in 2E was insanely more survivable than it is now.
2 - It would give AP1 weapons a legitimate reason for AP1 to exist outside of vehicles.
3 - Terminator Armour was specifically designed to survive Plasma...so it shouldn't instantly fail to Plasma's AP2.
4 - a dice roll of a 1 ALWAYS FAILS*

The net result would be as follows: They still only survive on a 2+, but they still get that 2+ Armour Save against everything except AP1 weapons.


*unless that's a change I missed in 6E....


I stopped reading there. 2nd edition with a hybrid RPG and tabletop wargame with completely different standards. Terminator armour was more survivable but then a lot of weapons were much more destructive. Wanting things to be changed based on 2nd edition rules is a recipe for disaster, terminators are more than durable enough for teh current ruleset they just need some tweaks.

Rolls of 1 never automatically fail, hit a AV10 with a S10 weapon, roll a 1 and boom penetrated.

Terminator armout only had a 1 in 36 chance of failing, compared with now which is 1 in 6. The huge difference is that back in 2nd ed most weapons had save modifiers, so while the save was better it was very rare that you were actually rolling for a 3+ on 2D6.

[Kirsten]

Rolls of 1 never automatically fail, hit a AV10 with a S10 weapon, roll a 1 and boom penetrated.

1 is a fail for armour saves though, a 1+ save would still need a 2+ to pass, it just wouldn't be negated by AP2, not actually that excessive really.

[Aramel]

Exactly. Also bear in mind that this armour would be worn by expensive models. So probably 5-10 per army at most. Terminators die all the time to small arms fire. Not losing your armour to AP 2 is really not that big of a deal.

[chicop76]

Rolls of 1 never automatically fail, hit a AV10 with a S10 weapon, roll a 1 and boom penetrated.

Terminator armout only had a 1 in 36 chance of failing, compared with now which is 1 in 6. The huge difference is that back in 2nd ed most weapons had save modifiers, so while the save was better it was very rare that you were actually rolling for a 3+ on 2D6.

People like this is why I started the armour pen thread.

I take a ton of plasma to burn the terminator scum from the face of the earth. If they become immune to plasma that's a big deal. Especally watching a guy roll 30 dice and he only rolls one one.

[Wolfshade]

I'm not really sure at what you are getting at with the above comment.

I will say that I don't think that anyone should have 1+ save. If you roll enough dice you will fail armour saves. If you want to make something with a 2+ save harder to kill or immune to "small arms" then you should buff the T value.

I was attempting to argue against the claims that 2nd ed terminator armour was so much better than it is now, also only being able to make saves as pairs was a nightmare.

[bfmusashi]

pretty sure shuriken weapons went through Power armour like a hot knife through butter in 2nd, and even brutalised terminator plate.
Shuriken catapults were S4 -2save modifier with one sustained fire die (no shots next turn to 3 shots). Killed marines easy, but terminators kind of laughed at it as you just had to roll a total of 5 or more on 2D6.

[MajorWesJanson]

I will say that I don't think that anyone should have 1+ save. If you roll enough dice you will fail armour saves. If you want to make something with a 2+ save harder to kill or immune to "small arms" then you should buff the T value.

I sort of agree. No normal models should have a 1+ save. Gargantuan creatures, on the other hand, should have the option, just like superheavies should have access to AV15, and superheavy weapons with strength of 11-14. But that is outside the normal game.

[Arkhan Land]

Three to a squad terminators in exo armour able to shrug off an extra wound but even further limited mobility

just saying theres fluff available and its chronologically following the heresy that the earlier mark versions of terminator armour were developed

[Sonikgav]

You guys know a 1+ arnor save is already possible right?

Eldar Phoenix Lord in a unit with something casting Runes of Battle. Not Likely, but possible.

[Wolfshade]

I thought that the was something in the rules saying that the maximum save was 2+, though that could be in the cover section that a save can't be improved beyond 2+ or 1+ on an armour save was an auto fail.

[Death from Above]

There isn't anything in the basic rules that prevents a 1+ save, although a 1 on a save always fails so it really only affects AP2 weapons. The Psychic ability from Runes of Battle can't grant a 1+ save. It says specifically (to a maximum of 2+).

[Bigred]

Good news - bad news time:

Bad news:

40K Mini Rulebook: p.2

Armour Save (SV)
"... a model can never have an Armour Save better than 2+"

Good News:

Regarding the new Space Marine "giant walker":
"Imagine if the current Space Marine dreadnought was the mommy and the Contemptor was the daddy - and the kid was enormous"

[Wolfshade]

Huzzah!

[Defenestratus]

AHha wow people actually believed my 1+ armor comment?

I guess it really is easy to troll the rumor community :P

APOLOGIES FOR NOT PUTTING </SARC> tag in there.

[Deadlift]

I am quite sure he was being facetious :)

I did try and tell them.

[Defenestratus]

I did try and tell them.

Thanks :D

I am intrigued however that people are trying to justify the 1+ armor for terminators. Thats quite honestly the silliest thing I've ever heard of.

Plasma-immune terminators LMFAO!

[Mr Mystery]

The mists are receding!!!! The future is clearing!!!

Woah!!! Woaaaaahhh!

By the pricking of my thumbs, the Space Marines are about to receive a new codex......and some models.....including a large kit....

Wait! There's more! Wooaaahah! Wooooaaaahhh!

There will be much whining from the Eldar players, about.......something......


The mists are closing in! My prophecy is ended!

:p

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Just as I'd set aside my Space Marines to work on Eldar, too!

I thought I was out... THEN THEY PULLED ME BACK IN~

[magickbk]

I stopped reading there. 2nd edition with a hybrid RPG and tabletop wargame with completely different standards. Terminator armour was more survivable but then a lot of weapons were much more destructive. Wanting things to be changed based on 2nd edition rules is a recipe for disaster, terminators are more than durable enough for teh current ruleset they just need some tweaks.

I don't want to cause a ruckus here, but there were no RPG elements in 2nd edition, unless you consider the fact that characters were horribly unbalanced. It was all tabletop strategy right from the boxed game on. All the RPG element was in Rogue Trader. Also, there are many, many things working their ways back into the rules from the 2nd edition days, from vehicle speeds to codex tricks, to random psychic power selection, a variety of special rules, etc. I think a number of the current designers look at 2nd edition as the fun old days and draw from it when writing new books.

[Mr Mystery]

Hmm.

AA for Space Marines.... Devastator Missile Launchers are pretty much a no brainer, but what else might we see?

Hyperios Whirlwind? FW already do it, but wouldn't rule it out.

But still expecting something completely new in that regard...

[eldargal]

I don't want to cause a ruckus here, but there were no RPG elements in 2nd edition, unless you consider the fact that characters were horribly unbalanced. It was all tabletop strategy right from the boxed game on. All the RPG element was in Rogue Trader. Also, there are many, many things working their ways back into the rules from the 2nd edition days, from vehicle speeds to codex tricks, to random psychic power selection, a variety of special rules, etc. I think a number of the current designers look at 2nd edition as the fun old days and draw from it when writing new books.
1st edition was a RPG, 2nd edition was a hybrid maintaining many elements of the RPG ruleset.

[Wolfshade]

1st edition was a RPG, 2nd edition was a hybrid maintaining many elements of the RPG ruleset.

look at the CC and fully destructable scenery..

[bfmusashi]

Beyond the use of dice of various sides I'm not sure what the RPG elements are, nor what the other half of the hybrid is supposed to be.

[magickbk]

Beyond the use of dice of various sides I'm not sure what the RPG elements are, nor what the other half of the hybrid is supposed to be.

Yeah, I played 2nd from the day of release, and I'm not quite sure. No game master, the army lists were all there in the Codex Army Lists packet with the percentage breakdown, the mission cards were similar to modern day missions, standardized deployment, etc. 2nd was a lot closer to the current day rules than most people think, except using the Fantasy system of moving, marching, charging, and save modifiers. Vehicles had higher armor and rolled the crazy dice, but it was all more similar to the way a game works now, just double the time and points.

[Arkhan Land]

Beyond the use of dice of various sides I'm not sure what the RPG elements are, nor what the other half of the hybrid is supposed to be.


But at the end 40k and all tabletop strategy is still is a lot of RPG stuff it simply expands how big your "party" is, you're still a warlord commanding 50 something NPCs its just a little more confined and less imaginative than RPG playing partially because GW has canned the use of a game-master a long time ago and instead of a looser system designed to handle more long term terrain - changing - plot linking - adventuring than to be precise system of fairness in a competitive format. Nowadays we have detailed rule books and codex and specific models, back in the day we had one goofball behind a cardboard wall who would roll dice and then tell us the whole last 5 turns had happened inside one characters dream and were irrelevant to the game-play now.

Tabletop strategy gives you the ability to place yourself somewhere else to visualize a battle in the future. If you only showed up because you enjoy "gaming" and competitive play you might find yourself with considerable more money and enjoyment from joining a chess league. That said before I really had money to play 40k I was a FIDE certified youth expert... : /

[MajorWesJanson]

Hmm.

AA for Space Marines.... Devastator Missile Launchers are pretty much a no brainer, but what else might we see?

Hyperios Whirlwind? FW already do it, but wouldn't rule it out.

Hyperios would not even need a new kit, just an upgrade option for Whirlwind entry to take say 2-3 shot Hyperios/Flakk missiles and boom, boost in demand for the Whirlwind box.
I'd also imagine Dreadnoughts and land speeder typhoons could get access to flakk missiles.

[Charistoph]

Hmm.

AA for Space Marines.... Devastator Missile Launchers are pretty much a no brainer, but what else might we see?

Hyperios Whirlwind? FW already do it, but wouldn't rule it out.

But still expecting something completely new in that regard...


Hyperios would not even need a new kit, just an upgrade option for Whirlwind entry to take say 2-3 shot Hyperios/Flakk missiles and boom, boost in demand for the Whirlwind box.
I'd also imagine Dreadnoughts and land speeder typhoons could get access to flakk missiles.

I would be somewhat (and pleasantly) surprised to see the Hyperios Whirlwind, Helios Land Raider, and any Contemptor. GW hasn't had Citadel cannibalize the Forgeworld line for some time, but had them create alternate lines from there.

There are already 2 Flyers, and Devastators are a given for a Flakk Missile option. It's also possible (even likely, based on the Green Emos) to see Flakk options for both Scouts and Tacticals. Dreadnought is a possibility, though (again, basing it off the DA) not likely, and the Land Speeder less.

[AirHorse]

I think it would be cool to see an alternative version of a thunderfire cannon that does AA, so have a techmarine with his snazcannon shooting down those birdies(probably not with the name snazcannon though!).

[Lexington]

I think it would be cool to see an alternative version of a thunderfire cannon that does AA, so have a techmarine with his snazcannon shooting down those birdies(probably not with the name snazcannon though!).
I can see this - a plastic Thunderfire/StormFlyerShooterDowner (name WIP) kit, along with the first plastic Techmarine. The Thunderfire's apparently a hideous pain to put together, and given how other metal-to-Finecast transitions have gone, must be a nightmare from both a production and user angle. It'd be a smart move to put it in plastic.

[MajorWesJanson]

I would be somewhat (and pleasantly) surprised to see the Hyperios Whirlwind, Helios Land Raider, and any Contemptor. GW hasn't had Citadel cannibalize the Forgeworld line for some time, but had them create alternate lines from there.

In most cases, yes. The Hyperios Whirlwind though, is just a different weapon profile that FW made a different looking turret for. The Hyperios turret has nothing special to it that means it could not stand in for a normal whirlwind turret. Though GW could go back to Epic for names and bring back the Hunter.


I can see this - a plastic Thunderfire/StormFlyerShooterDowner (name WIP) kit, along with the first plastic Techmarine. The Thunderfire's apparently a hideous pain to put together, and given how other metal-to-Finecast transitions have gone, must be a nightmare from both a production and user angle. It'd be a smart move to put it in plastic.

The Thunderfire is also the largest finecast kit in the Marine range IIRC. An AA option would be a good idea for a combi-kit. Add a techmarine with harness and servo arm options, maybe a couple of servitors, and GW could cover a lot of Finecast bases with one plastic kit.

[Kirsten]

The Thunderfire is also the largest finecast kit in the Marine range IIRC. An AA option would be a good idea for a combi-kit. Add a techmarine with harness and servo arm options, maybe a couple of servitors, and GW could cover a lot of Finecast bases with one plastic kit.

yeah I think that would make a really nice model

[daboarder]

Don't forget that the rules for the raven and the talon wil both be printed in this book. I don't think marines will get 3 fliers. I'd expect this release to be more about refreshing older parts of the line/moving items to plastic.

[flekkzo]

Don't forget that the rules for the raven and the talon wil both be printed in this book. I don't think marines will get 3 fliers. I'd expect this release to be more about refreshing older parts of the line/moving items to plastic.

If they release a combined stern and vanguard kit that looks as good as the old finecast but far more posable and customizable I am buying a few of them for sure. Can't have enough veterans! Especially if they finally become troops (yes, it would be sweet to field a 1st company only).

[Defenestratus]

If the last couple releases are anything to go by, then you'll get one, maybe two old units with refreshed models and then a bunch of "glitter" new units :P

[Charistoph]

In most cases, yes. The Hyperios Whirlwind though, is just a different weapon profile that FW made a different looking turret for. The Hyperios turret has nothing special to it that means it could not stand in for a normal whirlwind turret. Though GW could go back to Epic for names and bring back the Hunter.

A different named system is more likely. I doubt that they will include the Forgeworld unit by name in this codex (even though they SHOULD, it would save time on the "legality" of FW), or any near future codex.

[plawolf]

With the way the recent releases have gone, especially sales wise, I expect some kind of large monstrous creature walker. Since Vanillan marines are all about stealing exclusive stuff from variant marine books, I would not be surprised if the new Codex Marines get a version of the GK Dreadknight, maybe with different weapons options like plasma cannons, las cannons and assault cannons options. Hell, it may even be a flying monstrous creature since marines never had one of those, so by GW logic, they need one for 'balance'.

So long as they redesign the model with an enclosed cockpit, I won't be that annoyed as I never liked the baby carrier look of the original.

I think the new marines book will also get a bigger emphasis on AA now that everyone has stocked up on fliers. Flakk missiles are all good, but doesn't sell extra models for GW, maybe the aforementioned giant walker will get interceptor and sky fire options, or maybe they will introduce a new model. An AA thunderfire sounds tempting, but there is already a model out.

An AA dread would make sense, but there are already plenty of dread boxes, so that market seems pretty saturated. Looking around, the humble predator has been around a while and only has the stock two builds if you exclude the BA Baal box, so I think a new predator box with maybe a new sculpt and additional options would find the biggest market, so my money would be on that.

If they keep the old predator box for the stock auto and las cannon builds, the new one can have an AA build, so maybe dual autocannons or a long barrelled Gatling cannon like the avenger megabolter. The second build could be a plasma tank, with twin linked plasma cannons in the turret, with plasmagun sponson options. You can bet such a tank will sell well.

[DarkLink]

As if they need to make Riflemen Dreadnoughts better. Right now they're pretty much the only Dreadnoughts anyone takes.

[MajorWesJanson]

If they keep the old predator box for the stock auto and las cannon builds, the new one can have an AA build, so maybe dual autocannons or a long barrelled Gatling cannon like the avenger megabolter. The second build could be a plasma tank, with twin linked plasma cannons in the turret, with plasmagun sponson options. You can bet such a tank will sell well.

GW could follow the lead of FW and have a Predator Executioner/Conversion beamer tank. Wouldn't really strp on FW as it would not be a direct port of the model, since the FW ones are Heresy styled.

[Mr Mystery]

Wondering what sort of Relics we can look forward to!

[flekkzo]

As if they need to make Riflemen Dreadnoughts better. Right now they're pretty much the only Dreadnoughts anyone takes.

They need to make Dreadnoughts interesting to put on the table. They feel pretty much *meh* across the board. I feel like they need a complete redesign™

[DarkLink]

GW won't. Probably ever. They don't seem to believe in updating the classics. I never see Land Raiders, Land Speeders, Whirlwinds, Dreadnoughts, Techmarines... the list goes on and on, and that's just what I can think of off the top of my head. Not all of them are terrible, and some definitely have specialist uses, but c'mon GW. Seriously? How long will it take for you to realize that no one ever takes Techmarines except for the Thunderfire Cannon.

[Kirsten]

I take assault cannon dreads, las cannon dreads, and techmarines... :p

[Wolfshade]

As if they need to make Riflemen Dreadnoughts better. Right now they're pretty much the only Dreadnoughts anyone takes.
I always take twin Blood Talons

[DarkLink]

Actually, that's a good point, Blood Talons are the other good Dreadnought build.

It's not that Dreadnoughts are that bad, just that they suffer from having one build that's pretty obviously better than all the other builds, while not being good enough in general to compete with other units.

[Allen Broussard]

Dreads are too easy to pop and with the nerf to their fire arcs from immobilization results this edition just feel like throwaway units. The ironclad isnt horrible, but still sorta feels like a throwaway unit.

I honestly dont know why they dont have a 5+ invun save like terminators get.


Basic dreads need it to be viable again, and ironclads need it to be of any use in CC vs MC's, which is what i felt they were supposed to be used againgst.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I'm not much for competitive play, so I often take things that I like - so I roll with a Venerable Dreadnought sometimes, just because it's cool. It's done some fun things (punching out a Wraithlord in one turn is probably its high point) but it's too expensive. I agree that Dreadnoughts are a little underwhelming. Either a price reduction or a capability boost would be nice.

[chicop76]

I take tech marines with Grey Knights. He has ward staff, rad and psy grenades and 3 skulls to screw hound rush.

The priest and inquisitor options help you get more rad and psy grenades on the table. His plasma and powerfist attacks are nice add ons.

However with strike marines this alows for a cheap unit to do well and have two 2+ invulnerable saving characters in a squad. Heck you can have 6 possible.

My fav is tech marine with 6 crusaders and 4 deathcult.


I think dreadnoughts aren't bad. At least the venerable in dark angels have been updated for 6th and I seen them due pretty well.

Besides rifle dreads deep striking melta/ heavy flamer drop pod dreads are a pain. I fear these a bit more than the rifle dread.

My opinion is that dreads are supposed to ge a match to MCs. Thanks to MC's Smash attacks it's not a fair fight. A ivulnerable save akin to terminator makes sense to me.

[Lukehoulioo1994]

In the latest sm codex on the chapter master entry(information bit) the picture shows some one with the imperial fist symbol on(obviously crimson fist have Pedro) so what if they actually make it into a special character, would be quite cool to have Vladimir and Lysander to be going round with each other :P but this is the picture from the page on the link http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/7/70/ChapterMaster.jpg

[Vangrail]

Idk maybe I'm lucky but my ven dreads always do good. One has assault cannon and arm with flamer, then riflemen, then lascannon and arm. Mine live for most of the games but i always have them backed up well. Never really send them off alone. I use them as support more than a suicide melta. One thing I hate seeing os sternguard in drop pod. Every time i see it people place them badly and they get wrecked. I also hope like the da book techmarines dont take up a spot bc i like using them. But sometimes its like i wish i took somthing else.

[Anakzar]

My opinion is that dreads are supposed to ge a match to MCs. Thanks to MC's Smash attacks it's not a fair fight. A ivulnerable save akin to terminator makes sense to me.


From a tyranid players perspective, you are right Dreads are not even close to a match VS MC due to smash mainly. But they make up for that in being almost totally invulnerable VS the smaller troops due to the hitting the front armor thing... Trade offs. I sure would like to have seen a "wolf-pack" rule allowing some models to hit rear armor if they outnumber greatly...

On the other hand MC can be taken out by most reg troops while most reg troops have no chance what so ever of taking out a Dread and the best they can hope for is to tar-pit.

I would not mind some better saves on my MCs... Bring back the buyable voltage field +1 str and 4++ saves Weee!! ;) 2nd ed stuff... Warriors were MC back then and had T5 to boot! ;)

[Patrick Boyle]

From a tyranid players perspective, you are right Dreads are not even close to a match VS MC due to smash mainly. But they make up for that in being almost totally invulnerable VS the smaller troops due to the hitting the front armor thing... Trade offs. I sure would like to have seen a "wolf-pack" rule allowing some models to hit rear armor if they outnumber greatly...

On the other hand MC can be taken out by most reg troops while most reg troops have no chance what so ever of taking out a Dread and the best they can hope for is to tar-pit.

I would not mind some better saves on my MCs... Bring back the buyable voltage field +1 str and 4++ saves Weee!! ;) 2nd ed stuff... Warriors were MC back then and had T5 to boot! ;)

You absolutely do NOT want dreadnoughts getting anywhere near close combat with anything. Sure they hit hard if you kept the DCW, but they only have two attacks, one of which will actually hit on average. Any unit with krak grenades(Pick any flavor of marines to start with) will eat one alive via glances, meltabombs double, and anything else with a decent unit size(Nid swarms, ork boyz, etc.) will tie it up for the rest of the game. The subset of things you'd ever want a vanilla marines dread getting into combat with is pretty small, and not likely to be caught by one either.

[daboarder]

Furioso's and DC dreads tend to frak things up though.

The Helbrute with PF and PS is nice too, the scourge lowers the opponents WS even when not being used as per the FAQ

[Wolfshade]

Maybe SM need a bigger walker ;)

[Psychosplodge]

Maybe SM need a bigger walker ;)

No bad Wolfie, a bigger tank or plastic thunderhawk. NOT a silly walker. As if the dreadknight isn't silly enough.

[Wolfshade]

But a bigger walker say Dreadknight size, if not slightly bigger perhaps, in the new dex coming out I don't know games day is always a favouirte to release codex:space marine..

[Deadlift]

Maybe SM need a bigger walker ;)

I'm sure on the front page of this thread it says something along the lines of its going to be a cross between a standard dread and contemptor, but bigger.

[Psychosplodge]

No. I'm sick of walkers. I want a tank.
Have they got a new machine for making walkers or something? O_o

[Deadlift]

No. I'm sick of walkers. I want a tank.
Have they got a new machine for making walkers or something? O_o

Lol, maybe. I'm a big fan of walkers...sorry lol :)

[Wolfshade]

:)

[Defenestratus]

No. I'm sick of walkers. I want a tank.
Have they got a new machine for making walkers or something? O_o

Well there is quite a popculture uprising of "giant fighting robots". That Pacific Rim movie...

[Psychosplodge]

There's been mecha anime for 20-30 years, we have the tau for that. The eldar were acceptable at a push but unless it's a plastic contemptor or whatever the FW dread is called it'll probably a silly oversized dreadknight.

Now who wouldn't want a plastic fellblade for their marines?

[Arkhan Land]

There's been mecha anime for 20-30 years, we have the tau for that. The eldar were acceptable at a push but unless it's a plastic contemptor or whatever the FW dread is called it'll probably a silly oversized dreadknight.

Now who wouldn't want a plastic fellblade for their marines?

That would be cool but FW isnt going to give it up for some time if they ever do. And something the size of a dread knight but for space marines does seem right, more or less by design could be lot of that kit's sprue but perhaps with some other parts to broaden its use. It seems unlike GW to trash designs they could save money using a second time, if they aren't designing a new full sized apoc walker, then it wouldnt really befit them to make even another walker into their range thats just under or over the dread knight's size

and also big ups to mecha anime note, kind of wish 40k would take a cue and maybe develope some more sort of a dueling/skirmish mentality to titan/big armour games more similar to the mecha games they have "over there"

[bfmusashi]

Grey Knights made sense as a Greater Daemon can be really big, and eventually scale matters. They've been getting progressively larger ever since and something the size of a Wraithknight will just be odd for Marines.

[MajorWesJanson]

Wraithknight size, sure. But what about the Dreadknight? barring all the curved plates and script, it seems like a decent base for a marine heavy weapons platform, a more mobile counter for the increasing neumber of tyranid monstrous creatures, wraithknights, and riptides. Think a Dreadknight with a normal marine or terminator piloting, with the curved plates replaced with more industrial blocky parts, and the elegant fighting arms replaced with ones with built in weapons, not hands. A cross between the Dreadknight and the suits from Matrix.

[Daemonette666]

My only question is - considering that all the new units have huge miniatures like the Riptide, Dreadknight, a trend that the Grey Knights codex inspired with their Dread Knight, when are GW going to release the Chaos version of a dread Knight.

You know something similarly huge, a Toughness 8 MC with nasty high strength weapons, daemon rule, it will not die, the ability to take chaos marks, or become a Daemon of Chaos, and either wings or a jet pack, and the ability to get Feel No Pain?

[bfmusashi]

Wraithknight size, sure. But what about the Dreadknight? barring all the curved plates and script, it seems like a decent base for a marine heavy weapons platform, a more mobile counter for the increasing neumber of tyranid monstrous creatures, wraithknights, and riptides. Think a Dreadknight with a normal marine or terminator piloting, with the curved plates replaced with more industrial blocky parts, and the elegant fighting arms replaced with ones with built in weapons, not hands. A cross between the Dreadknight and the suits from Matrix.
Humans can not develop technology for dealing with the Tyranids, but I suppose framing it as a forgotten pattern seeing new use as the Tyranids close in works. But now I want one for my Guard. My boys deserve a place in the Giant Robot Fights of the 41st millennium.

[Dimitrios]

Humans can not develop technology for dealing with the Tyranids, but I suppose framing it as a forgotten pattern seeing new use as the Tyranids close in works. But now I want one for my Guard. My boys deserve a place in the Giant Robot Fights of the 41st millennium.

The guard already have larger walkers... they are called Titans (albeit they are under the command of the Mechanicum, but still)...

[bfmusashi]

By being under the command of the Mechanicus they are, by definition, not of the Munitorum :p That's like saying the Guard have lots of power armoured units because of the Astartes.

[MajorWesJanson]

Humans can not develop technology for dealing with the Tyranids, but I suppose framing it as a forgotten pattern seeing new use as the Tyranids close in works. But now I want one for my Guard. My boys deserve a place in the Giant Robot Fights of the 41st millennium.

Space Marines can, and have done it before- The Land Raider Crusader and Predator Annhilator were modified designs that became widespread before the Mechanicus saw the writing on the wall and said "sure, those designs are based on the STC, they are approved." And fluff could fit as well, say an old exoskeleton design that was rejected at first because Terminators and Dreadnoughts were deemed sufficient. Grey Knights took the idea and modified it to deal with Greater Daemons, and now with Tyranids and Tau heavy battlesuits, the Imperium is going back and saying hmm, maybe we do have a use for this thing after all.

[bfmusashi]

Those were alterations of an STC that were eventually sanctified. They were heretical. Dreadknights are not ok by the Ad Mech. They may not even be human in origin, since the only other model that exposed its pilot like that was the old Warwalker I think it may be beyond sanctification. This is not duct taping some extra guns onto a frame and calling it a new machine, it's a diabolical machine of sinister origin. A SM walker based on that frame would be unprecedented.

[Patrick Boyle]

The fluff for the Dreadknight in C:GK specifically points out that the origin of the technology is unknown and the Grey Knights keep it secret.

That said I think I'd honestly prefer something closer to it than the giant dread/contemptor hybrid the rumors all seem to be speculating on. Bleh.

[Vangrail]

I also agree on the dread/contemptor hybrid. I just hope the big walker is covered unlike the dread knight. I hate the exposed guy look. It would be cool if it was a big walker with a bigger dread like sarcophagus. Also hope it has cool weapon options like super assault cannon lol. True question though will it have a toughness value or armor? Im hoping armor value.

[cuffa]

Ok, my first foray. Shoot me down if you must but I think that the SM codex will still favour the smurfs. How else do GW get new players hooked. They then diversify and buy new dex/models etc.
As to new units, the vanillas have lost out recently but based on the latest trend, big stompy shooty construct appears to be the way things are going.
Supplements have been done before at a lower cost, so why not?
Also, with the other option of forking out £300+ for a granny smith, not that huge really.
Personally, I would like to see a plastic Thawk kit but dont think it will happen, flakk missiles.
are a must as the only option is fortifications with gun upgrade if you dont have fliers.
As to restricting them to DS, nah. Only advantage there is AA specific squad.
Here endeth my first rant ;-)

[webb]

The way I see things, the veteran box could be a good call as it'll allow something that would be unprecedented which would be lightning claws, combi-weapons and heavy flamers all in power armour for the first time in a loyalist box for a unit (Excluding single model commander box) and I think we can all agree that would sell fast!

The other obvious choice is a big rock'em-sock'em robot to match the dreadknight, riptide and wraithknight.

I think the one a lot of people seem to have maybe missed is the bread and the butter, the meat and potatoes of the space marine army.

The tactical squad and the rhino. There's nothing 'wrong' with the box but compared to the starter box the poses are static due to leg options, the kit comes with only 1 heavy weapon, they now need to put in multiple power weapon options rather than just the sword and also the rules for them need to improve so you want to take them as a pose to feeling you have to take them purely because they have a better save than a scout. The rhino too, there is talk of different variants but everyone here seems obsessed around some mega-terminator which will probably just end up being a 2W or +1T anyway, meanwhile the main transport, the rhino, may potentially have a massive overhall in it's versatility and uses? I know the other stuff is gonna be cool and shiny but lets be honest what our 2 troop choices are and what we'll be driving them around in are probably going to affect everyone more right?

Well, that's what I see in this situation at least...

[Magpie]

Not so sure that Space Marines will be getting a big guy. Dark Angels and Chaos SM didn't get one.

[Learn2Eel]

The new trio of Daemon Engines are all pretty big though. Plus, they already had the Defiler.

[mysterex]

the only other model that exposed its pilot like that was the old Warwalker

And the penitent engine ...

That said, adding a giant walker (or more likely monstrous creature) just because every else is getting one is pretty lame and runs contrary to how the existing background works. I rather see another more interesting unit in tactical armour. Like maybe the rediscovery of a stash of jetbikes.

[bfmusashi]

Ack, my BDSM blindspot gets me once again!

[MajorWesJanson]

Not so sure that Space Marines will be getting a big guy. Dark Angels and Chaos SM didn't get one.

True. DA got the Land Speeder Escalade.
Space Marines could get a new Land Raider variant, say the Terminus?

[Stone Edwards]

Not so sure that Space Marines will be getting a big guy. Dark Angels and Chaos SM didn't get one.

Well DA could easily get one by allying, and Chaos did kind of get two demon monster tanks and a dragon.

Total speculation but what if instead of having a large dreadnaught as a MC they kept it a walker but gave it a shield like the wave serpent to avoid instant death from a lucky shot? I just feel like a SM walker is way more fluffy than a MC.

[Power Klawz]

I don't really think SM will get a MC. Its just contrary to the whole codex astartes thing, there's no way that the mechanicum would sanction that kind of technology, and the only institutions in the imperium that can tell Mars to take a hike are the inquisition and those odd fellows on Titan.

The best the tech marines can manage is jamming a 300 baud modem into a mostly-dead guys head and hooking it up to a tank with legs, and I think that fits just fine with the space marine aesthetic.

If anything some new variants on existing tanks would be cool. These are a bit easier to justify than super advanced alien brain technology. Just put some plasma cannons on a predator and tell Uncle Mechanicus that you found the STC on Nebulax-17 while purging it of heresy.

[HsojVvad]

Well DA could easily get one by allying, and Chaos did kind of get two demon monster tanks and a dragon.



Going by that statement, anyone can get one by allying then, including the current SM. Well except for Tyranids that is. :P

[Magpie]

True. DA got the Land Speeder Escalade.
Space Marines could get a new Land Raider variant, say the Terminus?

Yeh maybe, I had thought maybe a flyer but they have just been granted the Stormraven so perhaps not.

Certainly I think we'll see more Terminators available and some Paladin/Knight types.

[Stone Edwards]

Going by that statement, anyone can get one by allying then, including the current SM. Well except for Tyranids that is. :P

Eh good point, I guess it just feels more natural to me since DA are already space marines and they would be battle brothers

[Brakkart]

While I would probably get one if it is added, I'm not overly thrilled at the idea of a giant walker type thing for the Space Marines as it seems to run somewhat counter to their way of conducting warfare. That said I do love the Contemptor Dread, so if (as rumoured) it is a bit like that but bigger, then yeah I'll totally be getting it.

what I would like to see is a few of the inconsistencies in the existing Codex tidied up, like Land Speeder Storms should really be a Dedicated Transport option for Scouts. Honour guards should have a much better selection of wargear to pick from (they are the uber elites of the chapter and should thus be first in line to get their gear from the armoury) and a plastic kit for them would be nice too! Also a Chapter Master and Honour Guard should be able to take a Land Raider as a Dedicated Transport. I've always liked the Techmarine Recovery Rhino that can be seen in the How To Paint Space Marines book, yet you can't actually field such a vehicle, heck Techmarines can't take any vehicle which is patently dumb, so an option for that would be nice. AA option for the Whirlwind and Dev/Tac squad missile launchers is kinda needed. Other than that lot, I'm not sure the Space Marines really need anything as such. A plastic Thunderfire Cannon would be good though but I'm not gonna hold my breath waiting on that.

[Ursa]

They better not get plastic thunderfires. I just got three metal ones! Damn things cost me a weeks pay.

[Bigred]

via BoLS 7-21-2013

Regarding the "larger terminators" - these models are described as being similar in aesthetic to the curving shapes of both the Contemptor and Tau Stealth suits. Bigger than current Terminators - but smaller than a Dreadnought.

Regarding the "big kit" - this model has been described as being the "lovechild of an existing Dreadnought, and a Contemptor - but ENORMOUS. It has also been described as a "Knight" with the following old EPIC images hinted at:4387

[The Sovereign]

Gross. I'd rather just get contemptors and call it a day.

[Learn2Eel]

I'm very interested to see how this rumour pans out, particularly in the case of the sprightly Salamanders....

[Tynskel]

Must have fed their kid well to make their child larger than the parents...

[Mr Mystery]

I dunno. Mumsie Mystery is a tiddly 5'2", Dad is 5'8".

I'm 6'2", and brother is 6'4"!

No special diet, just a generic quirk (rest of family is around Mum and Dad's height)

[Wolfshade]

I dunno. Mumsie Mystery is a tiddly 5'2", Dad is 5'8".

I'm 6'2", and brother is 6'4"!

No special diet, just a generic quirk (rest of family is around Mum and Dad's height)

How tall is the milkman?

[Arkhan Land]

curious to see this large terminators, will they be 5 to a squad or 3? extra wounds? slower movement?

and curious to see how big these new knights are, I have a resin kit I got for cheap a while back that rules, wondering if There will acceptably different sized classes of knight titans or if this is gonna make war on un-official models?

[Chris*ta]

I just wanted to share some comments that Jes Goodwin made at GD Oz last year. Someone asked him in one of the seminars what he would do if he was redoing the Tactical sprues and he had rather a complete answer. Basically, he would want all the heavy and special weapons, a wider variety of posing options and parts for a wider variety of armour marks. He specifically mentioned having enough studded shoulder pads to do the whole squad.

Let's just say that it seemed to me like rather a complete and specific answer if it was entirely hypothetical.

If Gotthammer is on here, she was there too, any thoughts?


Ack, my BDSM blindspot gets me once again!

Either this is a WH40k acronym I'm not familiar with, or I'm missing the joke.


How tall is the milkman?

:D

[Cap'nSmurfs]

It's possible he's just thought about it a lot. What he wants to do isn't necessarily what's possible to do. It'd be great to see, though.

[Pendragon38]

curious to see this large terminators, will they be 5 to a squad or 3? extra wounds? slower movement? This could be a robot from the old 2nd ed?


and curious to see how big these new knights are, I have a resin kit I got for cheap a while back that rules, wondering if There will acceptably different sized classes of knight titans or if this is gonna make war on un-official models?Same here, I hope we can use are proxies ones.

[DarkLink]

Either this is a WH40k acronym I'm not familiar with, or I'm missing the joke.


...I'm not sure if you want the joke explained.

[Brian Brenner]

It is genetic but not how you mean. Very common currently to have more children that are "maximizing their genetic potential" due to vitamin enriched foods and hormone laced protein and milk.

So the contemptor baby is just a kid that reached his maximum potential!

[bfmusashi]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BDSM
The Witch Hunters line seemed like a fetish no one caught. The Penitent Engine, Repentia, and Arco-Flagellants are all a blind spot for me that I do my best to ignore.

[Arkhan Land]

This could be a robot from the old 2nd ed?

Same here, I hope we can use are proxies ones.

I actually though about the imperial robot idea, given that FW just released some for 30k and that they are about the right size, I have a collosus and castellan and they are both about two heads above a normal termie but not nearly half as wide, easily takeable by and imperium army or heretic army fielding a tech/forge-person. I personally think though still it will be something similar to one of the two proto-type termies from the 1980s that were sort of designated as previous version of post-heresy era exo-armours there single cast pieces one thats sort of halfway to the space hulk version with the big pads, and the second version which is like an in beteeen of the modern termie, older termies and the old dreadnaught, I think people called them turtlebacks back en el dia. Or maybe something else altogether and theyll re-release a modified little dready based on the OG SM Dready and call it some sort of lower class, I mean they did re-release the contemptor from the recesses of early early 40k, why not the smaller attack dread now?

[MasterCraft]

I don't claim to be a fluff expert and I would have to say my knowledge of it is average. That being said, I've heard these rumors of the giant Contemptor/Dreadnought model and when I was looking through the new Apocalypse book this image hit me. 4445
I've never seen it before and it seems to look similar to a Contemptor. Could this be what the new model is? Most likely I am wrong and if so, is this just a standard titan?

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Those are Warlord Titans. They've been around for nearly twenty years - that illustration is from Epic.

[MasterCraft]

LOL. I thought so. For some reason I thought Warloard Titans were a bit bulkier and more ornate.

[MajorWesJanson]

LOL. I thought so. For some reason I thought Warloard Titans were a bit bulkier and more ornate.

Depends on the pattern.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

There's also the Imperator Titan, which is even bigger and has a chapel on its back. But yeah, there's multiple marks.

[bfmusashi]

The pic is of the 'new' Warlord titans. The older ones were all hunchbacked http://sho3box.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/warlord-titan-front.jpg

[Popsical]

SM need:
Terminator honour guard
Plastic honour guard
Whirly hyperios upgrade
Bike veterans ala vanguard etc
Better rules for techies
Plastic servitors

We dont need silly great walkers.

[Wolfshade]

Will get the big walker though, doesn't mean you need to use it. Though those things would be cool. I know I am planning to model a biker command squad :)

[Thomas Miles Corbett]

Great news to have an ultramarines codex again :D

[MajorWesJanson]

SM need:
Terminator honour guard
Plastic honour guard
Whirly hyperios upgrade
Bike veterans ala vanguard etc
Better rules for techies
Plastic servitors

We dont need silly great walkers.

Terminator Honor Guard- I'd say make Honor Guard just like a Command Squad, but in Artificer Armor base, then let both units upgrade to bikes, jump packs, or terminator armor if their chapter MAster/captain is equipped with one.
Yes to Plastic Honor Guard. Or just Plastic veterans, then you could combine it with the command squad to make honor guard.
Hyperios upgrade would be an easy rules addition. Say 15 points to give it a third missile option- skyhammer missiles from the Storm Talon
Bike Veterans a la Vanguard? Why not make Vanguard CC vets, and let them choose either jump packs with Divine Intervention, Bikes, or Furious Charge and a land raider as a dedicated transport?
Techmarines/Servitors- Make a plastic artillery kit with parts to make a techmarine with arm or harness, 2-4 servitors, and then a Rapier platform that can mount a thunderfire cannon, laser destroyer, or heavy conversion beamer.


If we are going to get a giant $85/$115 walker for the Marines, one that sort of looks like a giant Contemptor, I want GW to just go flat out and make it the Knight Paladin. It seems to fit the description of a Contemptor merged with a normal Dread but Giant. And it already exists in the fluff.
4447
4448

[Popsical]

As for the half baked termie/dread hybrid models rumoured too, nah not interested either.
Still hopefully they stats will allow me to proxy thallax cohort figs as them, in which case... yay all for it.
Really looking forward to the SM dex, but not for the new units, roll it GW!

[Wolfshade]

I'm looking forward to the different types of unit that they might introduce. Looking at FW Heresy stuff there is more than just the 3 squad types. I believe this might be replicated in 40k.

[bfmusashi]

I hope the dread/termy hybrid is just a terminator with a series of jump packs taped on.

[interrogator_chaplain]

I hope the dread/termy hybrid is just a terminator with a series of jump packs taped on.

Make it JET PACK's instead. See how Mr. Blueskin likes it. ;p

[Cpt Codpiece]

beakies beakies beakies that is all we need as far as Sm go :)
a whole new plastic tactical box ALL MK VI :)

i am unsure of the smaller than contemptor thing though, do SM really need another walker? a MC would be great though :)

[deinol]

beakies beakies beakies that is all we need as far as Sm go :)
a whole new plastic tactical box ALL MK VI :)

A box of mark VI would lure me into buying some space marines again.

[Mr Mystery]

A box of mark VI would lure me into buying some space marines again.

Forgeworld is your friend.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Yeah. The thing with brainstorming new Space Marines stuff is... well, Forge World kind of already do it. In spades.

[Cpt Codpiece]

FW have not made ANY MK VI since the RG, obviously they are post heresy unless you are RG.

but there was chatter last year that they (GW) were planning (or internal wishlisting) a MK VI plastic set and it was not the DA knights either as they were not on bikes..... give them the super retro snout holes like the 25th ed captain and the Black knights to make them not FW like or plain old MK VI its all good.

would save me a boat load of cash as its £80 a squad to buy FW i could settle for £25-28 in plastic thanks :)

[Mr Mystery]

Funny...just had a peak on Forgeworld....

5 MkVI Corvus power armour, £23 for 5........

[deinol]

Funny...just had a peak on Forgeworld....

5 MkVI Corvus power armour, £23 for 5........

I was just going to say something about that, but that's better than I expected. I mean, those are Dire Avenger prices! (Oh wait…)

Of course, I still have 90 somewhere from when you could get a box of 30 for $30.

[Cpt Codpiece]

23x2 £46 plus £11 for the bolters and £11 for special weapon pack...... £72 + 15% delivery is about £80

oh dear where is my head..... where did i get 72? :) 23x2 is £46 plus £22 for bolters and special weapons (if you just want old school missile 'special' pack).....

thats £68 plus 15% shipping but still closer to £80 than id like :(

obviously army wide its cheaper buying the plain 1 weapon pack of specials and heavies (10 old plasmas for £11, 10 missile launchers for £11 etc), but you are still at a loss when it comes to assault weapons unless you like trimming the ring cuff (wrist) from plastics :)

[Bigred]

via Best_Pone 8-3-2013

Up for release in September is the new Codex: Space Marines.

- There will be 7 Ltd Ed varients. 6 of these will be covers for First Founding chapters, whilst the 7th will have Black Templars on the cover.

- New weapon family: Grav weapons. I believe these wound against the armour save (so terminators would be wounded as if they had a toughness of 2).

- First Founding chapters will be getting a substantial section each to themselves, so hopefully this can be looked as as Codex: Space Marines instead of Codex: Ultramarines. This will also show in a rule called Chapter Tactics, for which the effects depend on the chapter being played.

- There is a new armour type that at first glance looks to be somewhere between a terminator and a dreadnought - looking more closely, it appears to go over the marine's power armour however.
- This new armour can be armed in 2 ways, depending on the user. The devastator version has either a bolter array or missile launchers mounted on the chest armour, whilst the gauntlets can be armed with heavy bolters, lascannons or grav cannons. The assault version has a bolter array or frag launchers mounted on the chest armour, with assault drills mounted on the gauntlets.

- There are 2 new AA tanks. One tank veterans will already be familiar with as the Hunter, armed an AA missile launcher. The other tank mounts 2 tri-barreled turrets instead.

- There is a new tactical squad. Lots of options as you'd expect, but of particular interest will probably be the grav pistol and grav rifle.

- A new plastic Sternguard veteran squad.

- A new plastic Vanguard veteran squad.

- New plastic characters: a captain, a librarian and a chaplain.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Speculation : I wonder if they will make the new tactical squad more Aquilla/Errant armour and leave the older marks entirely up to FW. Would make sense really..

[Bigred]

Note: The Space Marine "Hunter" vehicle is originally from EPIC - just saying...

4476

[Xenith]

Speculation : I wonder if they will make the new tactical squad more Aquilla/Errant armour and leave the older marks entirely up to FW. Would make sense really..

They would be depriving a the newest generation of gamers of the glory of beaky marinez!

[MajorWesJanson]

They would be depriving a the newest generation of gamers of the glory of beaky marinez!

If it's true that Tac Squad, Sternguard Squad, and Vanguard Squad are all getting new plastic kits, I'd like to see the armor breakdown something like this:
Tac Squad: Heresy Armor x2, Corvus Armor x4 Aquilla Armor x6 Errant Armor x1
Sternguard Squad: Maximus Armor x2 Corvus Armor x1 Aquilla Armor x2 Errant Armor x2
Vanguard Squad: Maximus Armor x1 Corvus Armor x3 Aquilla Armor x1 Errant Armor x2

[Spamthulhu]

Those were alterations of an STC that were eventually sanctified. They were heretical. Dreadknights are not ok by the Ad Mech. They may not even be human in origin, since the only other model that exposed its pilot like that was the old Warwalker I think it may be beyond sanctification. This is not duct taping some extra guns onto a frame and calling it a new machine, it's a diabolical machine of sinister origin. A SM walker based on that frame would be unprecedented.

They will adapt the fluff to allow new stuff. Just get over it. I never understood the concept of the fluff when you consider it hamstrings you so much at new idea design. I love the concept of a dark age of technology but they just have to find new STC's in a Cache somewhere and decide they are okay. Its not a huge leap. Really. The Razorback was a new design and it has changed appearance a few times. They added new weapons to the Epic line a few times. It isn't some unrealistic concept that they can "make up" a story explaining new equipment.

The reason much of the old weapons are relics and sacred are the design process and instructions have been lost to time or destroyed. Doesn't mean they can't be found again.

[Spamthulhu]

If it's true that Tac Squad, Sternguard Squad, and Vanguard Squad are all getting new plastic kits, I'd like to see the armor breakdown something like this:
Tac Squad: Heresy Armor x2, Corvus Armor x4 Aquilla Armor x6 Errant Armor x1
Sternguard Squad: Maximus Armor x2 Corvus Armor x1 Aquilla Armor x2 Errant Armor x2
Vanguard Squad: Maximus Armor x1 Corvus Armor x3 Aquilla Armor x1 Errant Armor x2

I really wish I could get a full squad of mark 8 armor marines. I would make an army of them.

[Xenith]

If it's true that Tac Squad, Sternguard Squad, and Vanguard Squad are all getting new plastic kits, I'd like to see the armor breakdown something like this:
Tac Squad: Heresy Armor x2, Corvus Armor x4 Aquilla Armor x6 Errant Armor x1
Sternguard Squad: Maximus Armor x2 Corvus Armor x1 Aquilla Armor x2 Errant Armor x2
Vanguard Squad: Maximus Armor x1 Corvus Armor x3 Aquilla Armor x1 Errant Armor x2

13 armour sets to a tac box is pushing it.

More money could be made by:
Tacticals - 2 corvus, 1 Errant, 6 Aquilla 1Mk9 chestplate.
Sternguard 2 heresy, 2 Errant, 1 corvus 1 Mk9 helmet.
Vanguard - 2 corvus, 2 Errant 1 Mk4 1 Mk9 legs.

Buy all 3 boxes, get one free Mk9 marine!

[energongoodie]

I'm lovin those pencil sketches! Warmachine style!

[Phototoxin]

Here's hoping terminators have 2 wounds. Just saying...

[Dietofliquor]

2 Wound terminators? Hah, yah right. Lets' be realistic. Only ones' that got that were the Ward Knights.

[Cadian122]

No bad Wolfie, a bigger tank or plastic thunderhawk. NOT a silly walker. As if the dreadknight isn't silly enough.

No chance on the Thunderhawk unfortunately. I spoke to Phil Kelly at Enter the Citadel, and asked him for his opinion, he said that to do a Plastic Thunderhawk, the production costs would rival that of re-doing an entire army's range - his example was; "we could do a Plastic Thunderhawk, but that would be so many frames, that it would be instead of doing Sisters of Battle" so essentially, if you want a Thunderhawk, save up, and get the FW one (although it is a ***** to put together, but not as bad as the Reaver Titan)

[phreakachu]

If it's true that Tac Squad, Sternguard Squad, and Vanguard Squad are all getting new plastic kits, I'd like to see the armor breakdown something like this:
Tac Squad: Heresy Armor x2, Corvus Armor x4 Aquilla Armor x6 Errant Armor x1
Sternguard Squad: Maximus Armor x2 Corvus Armor x1 Aquilla Armor x2 Errant Armor x2
Vanguard Squad: Maximus Armor x1 Corvus Armor x3 Aquilla Armor x1 Errant Armor x2

um... PLEASE no. i frakking HATE beaks. the beaks are so BORING looking compared to the other helms. theyre so boring looking that i dont even use them for trophys on my CSM. i want more maximus and more cruscade armors, kaythanksbye'

[Bigred]

No chance on the Thunderhawk unfortunately. I spoke to Phil Kelly at Enter the Citadel, and asked him for his opinion, he said that to do a Plastic Thunderhawk, the production costs would rival that of re-doing an entire army's range - his example was; "we could do a Plastic Thunderhawk, but that would be so many frames, that it would be instead of doing Sisters of Battle"

And yet rather than make a giant kit that would appeal to every Space Marine and CSM player out there, they use up their frame allotments on the Tesseract Ark and the Aquila Strongpoint, sure to be gobbled up by tens of customers.

[blastboy113]

I am looking forward to a new/ or redesigned unit that can take on Monstrous Creatures.

Tyranids, Chaos Space Marines and the Tau's riptide are becoming annoying!

[MajorWesJanson]

And yet rather than make a giant kit that would appeal to every Space Marine and CSM player out there, they use up their frame allotments on the Tesseract Ark and the Aquila Strongpoint, sure to be gobbled up by tens of customers.

Tesseract ark is only 2 unique sprues, IIRC.

[Bigred]

My big question is will the Graviton guns be like they are in the Horus Heresy book?


Graviton Gun: 18" S:* AP:4 Heavy1, Blast, Concussion, Graviton Pulse, Haywire

Graviton Cannon: 36" S:* AP:4 Heavy1, LargeBlast, Concussion, Graviton Pulse, Haywire

Graviton Pulse: Instead of rolling to wound normally with this weapon, any model caught in its blast must instead roll equal to or under their Strength on a D6 or suffer a wound (a roll od 6 always counts as a failure). After the Graviton pulse weapon has been fired, leave the Blast marker in place. This area is now counts as both difficult and dangerous terrain for the next turn thanks to the gravity flux.

They are interesting weapons, but not overpowering, and very situational. It will be interesting to see if they use those, or go with something divergent.

[DarkLink]

I like that. Totally stole the dropping pieplates as terrain from Warmachine, I bet. But do you get armor saves against the Pulse?

Also, Haywire for Marines is pretty cool.

[Kirsten]

not really stolen from warmachine, GW games have long had 'remains in play' template weapons.

[Poseidal]

um... PLEASE no. i frakking HATE beaks. the beaks are so BORING looking compared to the other helms. theyre so boring looking that i dont even use them for trophys on my CSM. i want more maximus and more cruscade armors, kaythanksbye'

No u.

Mk. 6 for life.


I am looking forward to a new/ or redesigned unit that can take on Monstrous Creatures.

Tyranids, Chaos Space Marines and the Tau's riptide are becoming annoying!

Like TH/SS Terminators? Their problem is they are generally not as fast as FMC or Jet/Jump MCs, and I doubt the new Tubby Terminator will bem much faster. If it's shooting to take them down, they may offer a lot of firepower, but would it be any more than Devatastors or a Predator for MCs?

[eldargal]

I'm so buying a tubby terminator.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Tubbeh!

[Popsical]

Termy tubbies, termy tubbies, say hello!

[eldargal]

Tubby terminator > termy tubby.:p Tubbinator is acceptable.

[Popsical]

Nah, Termy tubbies for the win. Picture the emperors face smiling and giggling in the sun.
A new rapier for the techmarine like the noo noo.
Eho!

[Cpt Codpiece]

Nah, Termy tubbies for the win. Picture the emperors face smiling and giggling in the sun.
A new rapier for the techmarine like the noo noo.
Eho!

oh dear, i suppose the rapier is like a shokk attack gun.... hoovers up IG and spits them out as mushed remai... i mean tubby tustard :) via a torrent template :) ooohh that seems rather chaosified LOL

[HsojVvad]

Uhmmmm, wich thread am I suppose to follow for rumours of Space Marines?

[Popsical]

What? Not this one! Cant you see myself and the good cptcodpiece are discussing Termy tubby rumours?
Be off with you!

[bfmusashi]

not really stolen from warmachine, GW games have long had 'remains in play' template weapons.

I can only recall the plasma and vortex grenades remaining in play for 40k and they were less terrain than balls of DOOOOOOOOM! I think there was some magic once upon a time that let you chuck terrain around.

[Red Angel]

What about a flying Monstrous raven that spits Fenrisian wolves out of its mouth? If they hit, the unit is engaged in combat w 2D6 wolves.

hehhehhahahhaah So yes! :D
Then I will get Canis (Wolf) Wolfborn on his Thunderwolf with wolf claws, wolftooth necklace and a wolf tail talisman :D
It will go well with my unit of suicide wolves :D

It will be awesome to see the Black Templar supplement
It will also be great when the Sisters of Battle actually get a proper codex!

The Space marine rules seem awesome
Dreadnoughts here I come :D

[Autarch]

I can only recall the plasma and vortex grenades remaining in play for 40k and they were less terrain than balls of DOOOOOOOOM! I think there was some magic once upon a time that let you chuck terrain around.

I think D-Cannons left templates on the board too, sucking units into the warp. Ahhh the good old days when 40k was truly crazy.

[Bigred]

Latest added to OP:

Via Faeit 8-6-2013

Tactical Squad Box
This box would only include 2 heavy weapons, and devastator boxes or resin direct only upgrades would need to be purchased for other heavy weapons.

Rhino/Razorback Box
...new razorback, which is split into two variants: assault and support; where assault would come with twin-linked heavy flamers, and TL assault cannons, and the support variant would have TL heavy bolters, TL lascannon and Las/Plas options.

The Rhino kit would be discontinued since it could be made from the Razorback kit.

Price increases for both kits

[fuzzbuket]

so larger kits, more silly large models that dont fit the 40k theme of "massive battles" and more expensive kits?

no thanks

[Defenestratus]

I think D-Cannons left templates on the board too, sucking units into the warp. Ahhh the good old days when 40k was truly crazy.

It was plasma missiles fired by Dark Reapers. They blocked LOS and they were awesome.

[deinol]

Silly question, what weapon options come with the current tactical marine box?

[Stone Edwards]

I can only recall the plasma and vortex grenades remaining in play for 40k and they were less terrain than balls of DOOOOOOOOM! I think there was some magic once upon a time that let you chuck terrain around.

Not SM but didn't 4th edition Nightspinners leave an area of difficult terrain for a turn?

[DWest]

Silly question, what weapon options come with the current tactical marine box?
Special Weapons: 1x Flamer, 1x Plasma Gun, 1x Meltagun;
Heavy Weapons: 1x Missile Launcher (with the clip of 3 missiles, not the Devastator backpack bin)
Melee Weapons: 1x Bolt Pistol, 1x Chainsword, 1x Power Sword (not 100% sure on the power sword). Might also have a plasma pistol option, but I wouldn't bet on it. Assault box has a ton of plasma pistols if needed.

Plus the grenade bits and ammo pouches, but no pistol pouches.

[Clockwork]

I'd have to find my codex to give you a 100% answer, but I believe they didn't, the unit that was hit just acted like they were in difficult terrain.

[bfmusashi]

Weren't D-cannons the ones that had a fairly good chance of flipping the target over and dropping him back on the battlefield? First thing I thought of when I heard complaints about IA Doom of some Eldar.

[flekkzo]

Special Weapons: 1x Flamer, 1x Plasma Gun, 1x Meltagun;
Heavy Weapons: 1x Missile Launcher (with the clip of 3 missiles, not the Devastator backpack bin)
Melee Weapons: 1x Bolt Pistol, 1x Chainsword, 1x Power Sword (not 100% sure on the power sword). Might also have a plasma pistol option, but I wouldn't bet on it. Assault box has a ton of plasma pistols if needed.

Plus the grenade bits and ammo pouches, but no pistol pouches.

They put plasma pistols everywhere, as if we want them so much:)

[Bigred]

Via BoLS 8-7-2013

New Combo-box builds Tactical OR Sternguard
5 man box on 3 sprues, similar to the Blood Angels kits.

Shooting Weapons
6 heavy weapons (HB, HF, ML, PC, LC, MM)
2 flamers
2 hand flamers
2 plasmaguns
2 meltaguns
bolt pistols
? grav guns
bolters
grav rifle
plasma pistol
3 combi bolter bases
3 combi-plasma add-on bits
3 combi-melta add-on bits
3 combi-flamer add-on bits
3 storm bolters

Marine Bodies
5 Legs
7 Torsos
12 Heads
5 Backpacks
18 Pauldrons

Assault Weapons
Power sword
Power fist
Power maul
Lightning claw
Chainsword

Misc
Back banner
Many purity seals and other thematic bits

Note: this is a highly unusual rumor release window with directly contradictory reports coming in from reputable sources. Standard caveats apply...

[KINGS]

Would not be at all surprised to see tac marines be dropped to five man... Pretty lame but that sounds like a lot of extra bits in there. Certainly an improvement; good for veterans who might have extra marines laying around that this kit could enhance, but terrible (as usual) for new people trying to break into SM for the first time.

Again, that kit would be amazing.

[Patrick Boyle]

Yeah, Natfka's (http://natfka.blogspot.com/2013/08/detailed-space-marine-rumors-are.html#more) got a completely different list of contents for the kits. Separate Tactical and Sternguard boxes, as well as Vanguard vets. His batch calls the new big suits Centurions and seems to imply that's the only new unit coming with Graviton weapons.

I'm just going to sit back and wait at this point, because who knows what's correct until the WD drops, but the hand flamers, and two of them at that given currently only the sergeant has the option to swap his bolt pistol, and full set of heavy weapons on that list make me more than a little skeptical of it.

[Bigred]

And this just in from the frontpage comments:

via Roly:

Saw the new models last night, very nice. New chaplain, new Libby, the AA rhino, and those two new marine+ models. Very nice. V guard, not that interesting.single pose Libby is a stunner with its little cherub

The new marine+ models look like fat tech marines with actual dreadnought feet, heavy bolter/las cannon sling under the arms a la marneus, and either hurricane bolters on each side of the chest or missiles. Armour playing like a col Rhodes style war machine almost. The grav gun looks like something out of halo. The new chaplain is reminiscent of the old blood Angela chaplain, but with blowy scrolls like the apostle. The librarian standing on a rock is a stunner, the cherub thingies will be removing. The six barrelled auto cannon rhino looks bulkier too, with ground stabilisers looks solid. From the picture I'd say it will 99% have split fire. Each set of three has a separate turret. Different front end too.

Here's one thing to consider - at last count the following kits have been reported as being somehow part of the Space Marine release wave:

"Bigger Termys"
Tactical Squad
Assault Squad
Vanguard Vets
Sternguard
Rhino/Razorback
2 AA Tanks
New "hover" vehicle

Misc finecast characters
Giant Kit (Imperial Knight)

That is just a tremendous amount of kits - no way is all of that coming at release. Maybe some of it now and some later, or some is Apocalypse stuff. But that is way too much for any release window.

As I said, Something odd is occuring behind the scenes this rumor release window - and even the reliable rumormongers are flummoxed.

[Clockwork]

And this just in from the frontpage comments:

via Roly:


Here's one thing to consider - at last count the following kits have been reported as being somehow part of the Space Marine release wave:

"Bigger Termys"
Tactical Squad
Assault Squad
Vanguard Vets
Sternguard
Rhino/Razorback
2 AA Tanks
New "hover" vehicle

Misc finecast characters
Giant Kit (Imperial Knight)

That is just a tremendous amount of kits - no way is all of that coming at release. Maybe some of it now and some later, or some is Apocalypse stuff. But that is way too much for any release window.

As I said, Something odd is occuring behind the scenes this rumor release window - and even the reliable rumormongers are flummoxed.

So is there some place the rest of us "mere mortals" can see these leaked pictures that everyone else and their mum seems to have seen?

[Cadian122]

His reasoning was the Stupid Necron Thing (my words) and the Lord of Battle had reusable frames. I do think that Apocalypse should have had either a Titan or Thunderhawk with the release - something to appeal to the Marine and Guard players out there, which was the reasoning behind my question - hence his answer.

[Deadlift]

Could the vanguard and stern guard be rolled into one kit ? Much like BA Death company ?

The 2 AA tanks again 1 kit ? The large number of releases could be due to multiple build kits.

[kire]

it is also possible that in a post chapter house world that gw will use the initial release to get a model for everything new out straight away and that things like tactical squads and razorbacks will come out one at a time with each supplement.

"Bigger Termys"
2 AA Tanks
Giant Kit (Imperial Knight)
Misc finecast characters

seams like a reasonable release while

Tactical Squad/Sternguard
Assault Squad/Vanguard Vets
Rhino/Razorback (shooty)
Rhino/Razorback (assault)

seam like a good fit given the rumored number of supplements coming for space marines

[eldargal]

His reasoning was the Stupid Necron Thing (my words) and the Lord of Battle had reusable frames. I do think that Apocalypse should have had either a Titan or Thunderhawk with the release - something to appeal to the Marine and Guard players out there, which was the reasoning behind my question - hence his answer.

Marine and Guard have enough crap already. Nice to see two non-Imperial factions get a superheavy.

As I said in the other topic the release will probably look somrthing like:
Van/Sternguard dual kit
Hunter dual kit
Tubbinator plastic kit
Tactical squad kit

I'm going with best_pone and saying that Assault squad, hover vehicle, rhino and giant plastic knight are all fantasies.

[Lukas The Trickster]

I'm going with best_pone and saying that Assault squad, hover vehicle, rhino and giant plastic knight are all fantasies.

I'd concur with that as well. Knight titans as part of a mainstream GW army release for Space Marines would be highly unlikely IMO because

A) It does not fit in with the background (i.e. they are part of entirely separate Imperium fighting formations)
B) FW designers have said at successive Q+A seminars that they want to do Knight Titans as part of the Horus Heresy range. Larger kits and fighting vehicles have generally always been the preserve of FW (the plastic baneblade and Eldar/Tau battlesuits notwithstanding), as its what they are good at and they can also charge more for them.

[MajorWesJanson]

Marine and Guard have enough crap already. Nice to see two non-Imperial factions get a superheavy.

As I said in the other topic the release will probably look somrthing like:
Van/Sternguard dual kit
Hunter dual kit
Tubbinator plastic kit
Tactical squad kit

I'm going with best_pone and saying that Assault squad, hover vehicle, rhino and giant plastic knight are all fantasies.

I'm actually in favor of the Sternguard/Tactical marine kit ($33 for 5 marines?)
My guess for the release:
Sternguard/Tactical squad
Vanguard/Assault Squad
Centurians 3 pack
Hunter with Autocannon/missile turret option
Rhino/Razorback rebox (no change to the kit)
Plastic Chaplain
Plastic Librarian

Did the plastic Captain rumor just evaporate?

[eldargal]

That's possible, but best_pone has a, what, 100% accuracy rating at the moment and he didn't mention Assault marines coming. Plus I tend to distrust people who claim to have pictures proving what they say but don't produce them.

[Poseidal]

best_pone's ones also correlate with Hastings' ones, who I also regard as reliable. Both mention Rhino Variants and Termitubbies.

[Popsical]

I have to say i was a little worried about the new maureen releases, but the fading away of the big robot rumour has eased my worries somewhat.
The Termytubbies are interesting me greatly. Eho!
Im inclined to go with best pone's rumours too, and im really excited about the new maureendex now.

[eldargal]

Ok. Some info from the White Dwarf. Not much, no images because I've promised and the forum rules.
No PM with requests please - soon it will leak smewhere anyway.

Black Templars are back in the Codex SM, but seem to keep everything - Crusader squad is there, Neophytes too, Emperor's Champion as well.
Don't know about the vows, though.

The codex is MASSIVE- 176 pages, so almost twice as big as other books in this edition. Slightly more expensive, but seems like a good deal. Still FW books are cheaper (per page), but this book might be like the most flexible SM codex ever considering it covers the BT within its core rules (traits? Most likely).

Veteran boxes - Vanguards and Sternguards are separate boxes. Sternguards are a bit cheaper.

Both have massive number of heads, with helmeted and unhelmeted options.


Tactical isn't too expensive for so many new options including two of the new grav weapons.
Sadly, it seems there is only one Mk VIII Errant chestplate, but maybe I'll find more later.

Hunter/Stalker is a combi-set covering two AA tanks with different weapons.


Centurions are big and expensive, in a set of three - about the Land Raider price, but seem to come on 60 mm bases so like SM bigger (more options) KillaKans.
Sounds nifty, no mention of a knight, rhino/razorback or, oddly, the flyer.

[daboarder]

Bodes ill for the old "no plans to discontinue any codexs" statement however.....sure BT's aren't dead....but ouch!

[eldargal]

Bodes ill for the old "no plans to discontinue any codexs" statement however.....sure BT's aren't dead....but ouch!
Well BT were always a special case.

No Knight, no hover vehicle, no assault squad.

Five plastic kits and a 176 page codex is larger than usual though.

[daboarder]

sounds pretty good to me. New tacs are a big thing, I kinda expected them last edition to be honest but then, I also expected BA terminators (the kind without JP's.

actually looking forward to this, despite not having a marine army...night be tempted to NOT use all my spare parts on a slaanesh list and do the highlander list I've also thought of...

I'll be honest, I am more afraid for sisters now than I ever have been...

[eldargal]

No reason to be afraid for Sisters, they had a second edition codex, they had a combined 3rd edition codex and unlike Black Templars aren't a sub-faction of another army. Jervis Johnsons quote stands and there was a quote from Phil Kelly about a plastic Thunderhawk would stop plastic SoB being produced which might be suggestive.

Tactical box remains 10-man.

Many faeit rumours cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.

[eldargal]

Moar:

More info.

There is definetely more archaic armour pieces in the Tactical set.

I've noticed Mk VI legs as before and Mk V Heresy chest plates. Maybe even for Mk VI Corvus, but the angle doesn't allow to confirm that.
Looks like there is a Mk IV Maximus helmet and Mk IV legs (!).



Sternguards

One Mk IV bionic helmet (and the rest of the armour seems like Maximus too).
Corvus armour legs and helmet for sure. The chest is as always a problem.
The pissed off Marine with beard head is really great.

Vanguards

Mk IV, Mk VI helmets and legs. The mohawk head looks great.

[energongoodie]

I feel that the dream of the Iron Hands codex ( see my signature for the last 4 years ) might actually be coming true with this new release. I'm counting the pennies now ready to bet big that these rumours mean I'm gonna spend a tonne of money on more and more and more....
I chuffing love space marines! :D

Are we thinking pics by the end of the week?

[Cap'nSmurfs]

That all sounds 200% epic.

Megacodex full of options for Codex-compliant Chapters with their own traditions sounds great. Expanded background for other First Founding Chapters and their successors also a plus. Interesting if Templars are folded in - I'd always figured them to be different enough to get their own book, but recasting them as one of the Imperial Fists' variants in a bigger main book makes sense also. Lots of boxes of cool plastic toys is super duper, can't wait to see what the plastic Vets look like. I've always had this problem with the metal and finecast squads: I don't want to create units full of the same poses over and over again!

Ultramarines will still be the poster children, but more room for the other First Foundings will keep people happier (maybe).

There was never going to be a flyer, they've already got access to two good ones. Dedicated Rhino AA vehicle kit is a logical step. New plastic Tacticals and Veterans allows them to very easily spruce up everything in the Space Marine line of products - I imagine plastic Veterans will sell well just for the bits they'll offer.

As an aside, any word on alternative shoulder pads - re-releases or Finecastering or even new examples of the shoulder pads with Chapter specific icons or the squad markings? I hate transfers. Hate them to hell.

Curious about the Centurions. I'm Centurion-curious.

Anyway, extremely exciting.

[Patrick Boyle]

And this just in from the frontpage comments:

via Roly:


Here's one thing to consider - at last count the following kits have been reported as being somehow part of the Space Marine release wave:

"Bigger Termys"
Tactical Squad
Assault Squad
Vanguard Vets
Sternguard
Rhino/Razorback
2 AA Tanks
New "hover" vehicle

Misc finecast characters
Giant Kit (Imperial Knight)

That is just a tremendous amount of kits - no way is all of that coming at release. Maybe some of it now and some later, or some is Apocalypse stuff. But that is way too much for any release window.

As I said, Something odd is occuring behind the scenes this rumor release window - and even the reliable rumormongers are flummoxed.

The 'knight' hasn't come up in anyone's rumors for over a week, and I don't think I've seen anyone saying Assault Marines were getting a kit, ever. Naftka's rumor on the hover tank, aside from sounding like total BS, was a 'probably not now' thing. The two AA tanks sound like they'll be a dual kit in the Hunter box, the Rhino/Razorback is already a thing, the Razorback kit, it just needs different box. So that cuts it down to

Big suits(Centurions according to Natfka)
Tacticals
Sternguard
Vanguard
Hunter
Plastic HQs

That's not even bigger than some recent releases. The Tau got Broadsides, Riptide, Fireblade, darkstrider(or whatever the pathfinder guy's name is), longstrike, pathfinders, the flyer kit, new Farsight, and crisis commander. That's 9 new kits without the Crisis suit team repack.



Sounds nifty, no mention of a knight, rhino/razorback or, oddly, the flyer.

I don't see why C:SM would be getting a third flyer, we already have the Stormtalon and Stormraven, unless that's not what you meant.

[eldargal]

I got my rumours confused, there is no new flyer. Also no assault squad, no rhini/razorback, no big knight and no hovervehicle.

[Patrick Boyle]

I don't think there'd have to be a new Rhino/Razorback kit, just drop the current rhino kit and give the razorback kit a new box, it's already the Rhino kit with an extra sprue for the turret. That doesn't seem unreasonable. Again, that's currently 8 new rumored plastic kits, plus one repack for the rhino/razorback. Tau had 9 new kits, 5 of them plastic, along with 2 repacks(crisis team and hammerhead/skyray). Maybe we'll see a new box for the Stormraven too to reflect the Codex marines being able to take it as well.

[magickbk]

I got my rumours confused, there is no new flyer. Also no assault squad, no rhini/razorback, no big knight and no hovervehicle.

I just think a lot of HH stuff from Forge World got rolled into the rumor mill. They got a big Land Speeder thing, and that big walker.

[Patrick Boyle]

Release list and prices? (http://natfka.blogspot.com/2013/08/no-longer-rumors-here-is-space-marine.html) Cruddace is the author? Ehhhhhhh...

[eldargal]

Schadenfreude...overwhelming... can't contain...the glee.

Seriously his work of late has been fine, but the nerdrage that will be prompted by this news on certain forums will be hilarious.:)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Not a Cruddace book...

Marines are going to suck...

[RGilbert26]

I was planning on giving 40k a break and perhaps give Fantasy another try, but after reading the above I think I'll just save what's left of my pay check for this release.

[eldargal]

Not a Cruddace book...

Marines are going to suck...

Well I'd say there is a 1 in 3 chance of it sucking, a 1 in 3 chance of it being OP and a 1 in 3 chance of it being nicely balanced.

#schadenfreude

[Clockwork]

Well I'd say there is a 1 in 3 chance of it sucking, a 1 in 3 chance of it being OP and a 1 in 3 chance of it being nicely balanced.

#schadenfreude

So basically he rolls a D3 before writing the book to see what he does?

[eldargal]

Yep.

[Clockwork]

Yep.

So basically he makes decisions much like Two-Face...only subbing a coin for a die.

I believe it.