WFB 9th Edition Rumor Roundup [Archive] - Page 2 - BoLS Lounge : Wargames, Warhammer & Miniatures Forum

Erik Setzer

01-07-2015, 01:14 PM

Honestly... I think I might not spend much more on WFB now. Maybe a handful of models, but until WFB9 comes out, I don't think I want to spend much more. Heck, even some cool models that I like the looks of, some of them are now being rumored to be gone, like the Warsphinx. I was wanted to get the Necrosphinx, but if that $55 model will just be sitting on a shelf once summer hits, I would rather spend the money on something I'll actually be using. I now want to go to a guy who's looking at Beastmen and tell him to hold off until summer, so he isn't throwing away a bunch of money.

It was a nasty blow when they shut the doors on all those Specialist Games, but each of them were relatively small investments. These changes would see hundreds of dollars for the average player, thousands for some of us, relegated to sitting on the shelf or trying, like with Specialist Games, to find people to play an OOP game with (and unable to play it at the local GW store, because of their policy that "If we don't sell the game, even if we sold it in the past, you can't play it in our stores."). Seeing so much of my collection reduced to just sitting on a shelf, including a lot of models I haven't even gotten around to... Why? Do they really think they could make more money by pissing on all of the current WFB players and basically creating a new game that people have to buy all-new rules for (heck, the rules we have were hundreds of dollars per player!), and replace most of their army? To say nothing of people like Lizardmen players, who would see their army Squatted.

And turning the Warhammer World into Outland meets Heroes of the Storm just seems, well... stupid. I can't find another word for it. That background sounds ridiculous, much more so than Outland does (because at least there you don't have pieces of the world bumping into each other with people then randomly deciding to fight). And the reason for it being that players couldn't come up with a reason for their army to be on the move? Really? So we're told to "forge the narrative" but because forging the narrative isn't something players are able to do (that's not giving us enough credit), they come up with the idea that everyone's living on asteroids that are constantly crashing into each other and people fight just because their asteroid bumped into someone else's and everyone's gone so lunatic that the whole of Outland has become racist to such an extreme it'd make the Klan blush?

Meh. Well, I'll be saving some money for the next few months, at least. Might be down to just one GW game by summer, if they drop LOTR/Hobbit and kill WFB to bring along Heroes of the Storm on Outland.

Mr Mystery

01-07-2015, 01:14 PM

Seriously - making a skirmish based version does make sense. Good sense, particularly as Harry says, the edition we currently play doesn't appear to be going anywhere.

But Earlybird? Nope, nope and nope.

Reminds me of the stuff we heard about the latest Edition of 40k, all of which was apparently 'confirmed', but turned out to be nonsense.

40kGamer

01-07-2015, 01:16 PM

Erik Setzer

01-07-2015, 01:16 PM

Trouble is, those bases were 'game permanent', rather than something you switched between.

That's the one thing Harry speculated about that doesn't sit right me with me.

As for loads of stuff being dumped - equally senseless. Especially dropping 'all Egyptian stuff' from Tomb Kings. Nagash seized power. He didn't wipe them out. Ditto 'floating islands'. Nah. Don't buy it. Pretty much everything Earlybird claims sounds like bollocks.

Nagash has the freaking Black PYRAMID that stores all his power. He IS "Egyptian." All the Undead stemmed from Khemri. How do you wipe out Khemri like that?

It's like an extreme attempt to go hardcore IP protection... which would be laughable if true, because you'll still have fantasy tropes existing on a lamer version of Outland in a Heroes of the Storm style scenario.

Mr Mystery

01-07-2015, 01:19 PM

Except Warhammer's strength is that it encompasses all Fantasy tropes. Literally all of them. Even vile Steampunk, but done well.

If Graugeist is right, then we can kiss goodbye to IG as well. After all, you can't copyright a bloke with a laser gun now, can you?

Solution9

01-07-2015, 01:31 PM

I just wonder if this is another case of GW fake leaking info to see who is leaking out the information for control purposes. Not an unreasonable thought.

Mr Mystery

01-07-2015, 01:34 PM

I think it's more likely Net Goons making stuff up for reasons best known to themselves.

Wildeybeast

01-07-2015, 01:40 PM

As always, there are probably some kernels of truth in here, but most of this smells very fishy. I cannot imagine GW possibly being mad enough to render obsolete or totally remove entire armies and existing models and units, not to mention the round bases thing, which invalidates every model people currently have. That would guarantee to lose them virtually every single Warhammer player they have. There is no way people are going to waste time and money building up again armies they already have perfectly good models and books for.

Mr Mystery

01-07-2015, 01:52 PM

40kGamer

01-07-2015, 01:56 PM

Erik Setzer

01-07-2015, 02:07 PM

Yup.

Plus, all this has been a long time in planning, despite what some of the more nutty contributors might claim.

And that means GW would have updated the Lizardmen, with a good variety of new and updated kits, in the full knowledge they'd only be selling them for a year or two..... Think about that. Why would any company do that?

That's what sounds fishy to me with the miniature blocks (yep, gonna use MtG terminology for them). Either they do Finecast, which a lot of people don't want, or they go with plastic, which isn't cheap in the initial costs. So if they go plastic (as they should), they'd have to spend a good chunk up-front, and then to make that back without long-term sales, they'd have to push up the price on those models even more, which would make them cost too much to really be viable on the market. Maybe in the short term, but as time goes on, interest in those releases would wane, and even the diehard collectors would have a hard time justifying the cost.

Mr Mystery

01-07-2015, 02:14 PM

If they introduce a sliding scale rule set I will pass out! :p

Seriously though, it would be unbelievably awesome to have a set of rules that let you go from Mordheim to mid-level warbands to mega-super crazy battles.

It already slides nicely from around 1,500 points upwards. They just need to introduce a way to play an equally engrossing game with say, just the contents of a Battle Force boxed set and a character. Whilst it can be done now of course, the big games are much more fun!

40kGamer

01-07-2015, 02:25 PM

Gwhizz84

01-07-2015, 02:30 PM

Did anyone else see on Harry's post that he said the End Times would finish after glottkin? 3 books total, yet here we are with Thanquol about to be released..

Erik Setzer

01-07-2015, 02:30 PM

It already slides nicely from around 1,500 points upwards. They just need to introduce a way to play an equally engrossing game with say, just the contents of a Battle Force boxed set and a character. Whilst it can be done now of course, the big games are much more fun!

There used to be a set of rules originally printed in WD for "Warhammer Warbands" with battles of up to 200 and up to 500 points, the full set of rules included scenarios, how to do a league, and even campaign rules with experience and all. There was also a small set of rules for "Warhammer Skirmish" which was a mesh of WFB and Mordheim. I have the PDFs for Warbands, can probably find the one for Skirmish easily, and they wouldn't be that hard to adapt to 8th edition. No idea why they didn't just slap those into the rulebook over time.

Mr Mystery

01-07-2015, 02:32 PM

Oddly, as much as people might deny it, it's not GW who set common point values, but the community.

I play big games of Warhammer because I really enjoy big games of Warhammer. I like rolling buckets of dice. I like the visual spectacle of massive units, and I positively live for that moment when you pull off a stunning charge and collapse your opponent's line. So I tend to play against people who like that scale of game as well.

I can play smaller, particularly when time is tight, such as gaming in-store. But the game does work from 1,000 upwards (though as said, 1,500 really gets the game going, at least in my opinion).

8th Ed went a bit overboard in making the big games fun, by changing how many models get to fight, as well as introducing Horde and Steadfast - but you can still play smaller games!

Erik Setzer

01-07-2015, 02:35 PM

Did anyone else see on Harry's post that he said the End Times would finish after glottkin? 3 books total, yet here we are with Thanquol about to be released..

Goes a bit further than that:

"Nagash was the first, followed by Malekith followed by Glotkin
...
...You have to ask yourself .... What will remain of the world as we know it when it has been ravaged in turn by the Undead, the Dark Elves, Skaven, and Chaos?"

So he gets the order wrong, too, and calls the one "Malekith," and then talks about the Dark Elves ravaging the world when they've actually just gotten their butts kicked, had to merge with the High Elves with Malekith finally taking his proper place, and then merge with the Wood Elves.

Sure, it's small stuff, but it does show a potential to be wrong because it's a lot of conjecture based on a little bit of knowledge.

Mr Mystery

01-07-2015, 02:39 PM

Harry has been the most accurate rumor monger of late. And the dude himself does explain he doesn't have a link to GWHQ, but is able to get certain info by keeping his ear to the ground.

But Faeit? No issue with the dude that runs the site, but he posts up stuff from anyone, regardless of reliability.

Erik Setzer

01-07-2015, 02:39 PM

8th Ed went a bit overboard in making the big games fun, by changing how many models get to fight, as well as introducing Horde and Steadfast - but you can still play smaller games!

Eh... I no longer like the Horde formation rules. I get what was intended, to make large units of cheap troops more viable, with 40 Empire Spearmen against 20 Chaos Warriors, for example. But lately I see "Hordes" of Chaos Warriors, or High Elf Swordmasters, or Witch Elves. And against that, there's not much you can do with units. You have to break out the more insane spells to have a chance to whittle such a unit down. It didn't help the cheap guys at all.

I'd love to see a return to 20-25 man units being viable again, and the norm rather than an aberration.

Mr Mystery

01-07-2015, 02:42 PM

And that's all it will take :)

Though Hordes of Chaos Warriors involve a lot of wasted points, as supporting ranks only make a single attack. And, that's a lot of points. My Ogres can get away with it, because being Monstrous Infantry, they take after Radceks Roughnecks - everyone fights, nobody quits. In armies where points don't stretch far in the first place, it takes a sloppy opponent for you to win (Hordes do not like it in the flank! Not one bit!)

Chronowraith

01-07-2015, 02:53 PM

Wow. Go to work and come back (I even left work early today) and this thread explodes.

Yeah, the Harry stuff I trust that some version of that will happen. The earlybird stuff I don't see happening. Ogres with Empire? Really? Lizards gone in space? Where the heck did that come from?

Mr Mystery

01-07-2015, 02:54 PM

Yarp.

Ogres would ally with anyone that pays them!

Plus, Stunties, with the exception of Malakai Makaisson, aren't actually Scottish. At all.

40kGamer

01-07-2015, 02:56 PM

Yeah, the Harry stuff I trust that some version of that will happen. The earlybird stuff I don't see happening. Ogres with Empire? Really? Lizards gone in space? Where the heck did that come from?

Maybe earlybird lives in Colorado or Washington and is hitting some good ganja. :p

Mr Mystery

01-07-2015, 02:58 PM

Drugs are bad, mm'kay.

Erik Setzer

01-07-2015, 02:59 PM

Yeah, the Harry stuff I trust that some version of that will happen. The earlybird stuff I don't see happening. Ogres with Empire? Really? Lizards gone in space? Where the heck did that come from?

In the 4th edition Empire book, they had Ogres, Dwarfs, and Halflings.

Of course, Dwarfs had their own army, too.

It would take some serious pruning to mesh any of those lists together.

40kGamer

01-07-2015, 03:04 PM

Drugs are bad, mm'kay.

Nope, not bad at all.... but they can lead to some interesting thoughts. :p

Asymmetrical Xeno

01-07-2015, 04:31 PM

I actually have no problem with any of it - except for the part about getting rid of existing units (I eh..kinda like Tomb kings haha) - I do think drastic changes are needed, but perhaps these are a little too far into it. I think the end times stuff has been just right though.

Wildeybeast

01-07-2015, 05:36 PM

Chronowraith

01-07-2015, 05:39 PM

In the 4th edition Empire book, they had Ogres, Dwarfs, and Halflings.

Of course, Dwarfs had their own army, too.

It would take some serious pruning to mesh any of those lists together.

Those Ogres had completely different backgrounds than the Ogres from the Mountains of Mourn. They weren't as barbaric, didn't practice blood magic, and were as dumb as a box of rocks.

I have no problem with the story moving along and armies changing but to drop entire lines, many units, and mesh together incompatible armies will kill this game. Yeah, it might attract a few new players... but do you honestly thinkm the poor lizardmen players would just pick up another army after getting the shaft (this assumes the improbable likelihood that these rumors are accurate). I just don't see them widdling down to 6 armies. Combining army lists into larger books? Maybe.

daboarder

01-07-2015, 05:43 PM

Wildeybeast

01-07-2015, 05:50 PM

daboarder

01-07-2015, 05:53 PM

They've just produced a product that has people more excited about Warhammer than they have been in donkeys years, is literally selling out in minutes and has met with pretty much universal acclaim. Why do they need to do market research? they clearly know what people want.

Well...

1) not doing market research is stupid on a whole new level.

2) You know all those years BEFORE they released endtimes? they could have been a lot better with market reseach

3) They are set to follow up on this amazing release by pissing off almost every customer that bought into it....great way to continue selling stuff there.

GWs philosophy is throw crap and a wall and some will stick, just because one piece does (endtimes) doesn't mean that you could have gone about the whole thing a lot better by thinking about it first

Wildeybeast

01-07-2015, 06:11 PM

I'm not getting into the 'they don't do market research' argument, it's been done too many times.

What I will say is that Harry has clearly demonstrated that the idea for End Tomes has been around for years. They have obviously spent a lot of time thinking about it and I frankly don't see how they could have done it any better, other than perhaps more copies of the hardback books.

You also seem to be taking these rumours as fact, because they fit nicely with your rather negative view of GW. We are too far out for anything be even vaguely reliable, other than perhaps Harry, who by his own admission gets a 'flavour' of things and pieces stuff together himself.

daboarder

01-07-2015, 06:18 PM

You also seem to be taking these rumours as fact, because they fit nicely with your rather negative view of GW. We are too far out for anything be even vaguely reliable, other than perhaps Harry, who by his own admission gets a 'flavour' of things and pieces stuff together himself.

sorry, wait, I thought we we're discussing the rumours as listed and the hypothetical out come of them. You do realise to do that you actually have to operate under the assumption that the rumours are true, I mean the possibility exists that they aren't true, but then why are you even talking about them......Perhaps if I re-issued my statement with a caveat of "If these are true" that might be easier?

Of course on the other hand, we see this ever single time:

RM"GW is doing XYZ and its bad"
C1"Well these are pretty bad and heres why"
C2"they are just rumours man, GW isn't that stupid"
-Rumours are inevitably accurate in roughly 70% of instances
C1 "see told you so"

RM"GW is doing XYZ and its bad"
C1"Well these are pretty bad and heres why"
C2"they are just rumours man, GW isn't that stupid"
-Rumours are inevitably accurate in roughly 70% of instances
C1 "see told you so"

Asymmetrical Xeno

01-07-2015, 06:19 PM

Yea, end times has got it spot on in my view. Radical changes to the background and some significant, though limited, rule changes. Armies are merged without invalidating any existing units or books. If that works and is selling like hot cakes, why the hell would they start pissing people off by suddenly getting rid of existing units and even whole races?

I can't see them throwing out any recent plastic kits. That would be crazy. I could see them ditching any units in finecast and metal though, and to a lesser extent very old plastic kits allthough it's possible they might update some of these with a new look.

I could also see them doing plastic releases as shorter lifespan stuff (the rumour said 6 months to a year) - This would make a lot of sense - we've had limited ed space marine captains, space hulk and quite a bit of stuff done like that now - if it's selling less, plastic kits done via the method of cheaper aluminium moulds rather than the more expensive steel ones would make a lot of sense and would explain the reason for this rumour.

Locke66

01-07-2015, 07:23 PM

I can't see them throwing out any recent plastic kits. That would be crazy.

If those units aren't selling in the quantities required to make them viable (aka consistently profitable) then it makes sense for a public company to do this. I suspect that the molding and design process has become much much cheaper in recent years and the majority of the "costs" will be in shelf space, warehousing and maintenance. It wouldn't be the first time a company has looked at the profitability margins on their products and chosen to write off a bad investment to make space for future sales.

eldargal

01-08-2015, 02:02 AM

If this is true then I'm done with fantasy, that is a giant cluster**** of terrible ideas rolled into one.

Vangrail

01-08-2015, 02:34 AM

They better not get rid of lizardmen wtf! My army would be useless and why would they cut out an army thats always been around??

Mr Mystery

01-08-2015, 03:41 AM

If those units aren't selling in the quantities required to make them viable (aka consistently profitable) then it makes sense for a public company to do this. I suspect that the molding and design process has become much much cheaper in recent years and the majority of the "costs" will be in shelf space, warehousing and maintenance. It wouldn't be the first time a company has looked at the profitability margins on their products and chosen to write off a bad investment to make space for future sales.

No it doesn't.

Main cost of the mould would already have been paid up to the point the first models are being produced. After that, storage isn't a problem for GW (warehouse is *massive*, and owned by the company). Maintenance? More the casting machines than the moulds.

Makes no sense = Earlybird is talking mince, probably to try to look the big man on the interwebs.

BeardMonk

01-08-2015, 03:41 AM

TBH i have no issue with the setting of WHF being moved forward a little. Gives GW a chance to bring in new heros and some really powerful special characters.

I would be disappointed if they do get rid of any factions. But I could see a logic in bringing certain races together under a similar banner but give those different sub faction their own mini books or bonuses. In the same way that you have Space Marines > Blood Angels/Dark Angels/Black Templars etc you could have Humans > Empire/Brets/Kizlev etc. And if anything id like to see Dogs of War type "faction" brought back. In a time of eternal battle, mercenary units would be fact of life.

But most people will adapt to the make up of armies if the actual game and rule set remains solid and logical. Im not sold on the round bases thing. But I can see GW doing it. The rule set will make or break this revamp. I was going to return to WHF but our whole club has decided to postpone a WHF map campaign to await the outcome of 9th ed.

Mr Mystery

01-08-2015, 03:43 AM

sorry, wait, I thought we we're discussing the rumours as listed and the hypothetical out come of them. You do realise to do that you actually have to operate under the assumption that the rumours are true, I mean the possibility exists that they aren't true, but then why are you even talking about them......Perhaps if I re-issued my statement with a caveat of "If these are true" that might be easier?

Of course on the other hand, we see this ever single time:

RM"GW is doing XYZ and its bad"
C1"Well these are pretty bad and heres why"
C2"they are just rumours man, GW isn't that stupid"
-Rumours are inevitably accurate in roughly 70% of instances
C1 "see told you so"

RM"GW is doing XYZ and its bad"
C1"Well these are pretty bad and heres why"
C2"they are just rumours man, GW isn't that stupid"
-Rumours are inevitably accurate in roughly 70% of instances
C1 "see told you so"

Recently, 70% is a very generous figure for actual accurate rumours.

And the rumours that sound bad? Yep, they're the ones that tend to be made up. It's obvious, on account they're made up.

Then the hatemob use the inaccurate rumours as a reason to beat GW for reasons best known to themselves.

daboarder

01-08-2015, 04:00 AM

Recently, 70% is a very generous figure for actual accurate rumours.

And the rumours that sound bad? Yep, they're the ones that tend to be made up. It's obvious, on account they're made up.

Then the hatemob use the inaccurate rumours as a reason to beat GW for reasons best known to themselves.

You're right, 70% for recent rumours is a fairly maximum statement given the current climate. that being said, we have not seen this independent correlation be wrong in a long time and that is what gives strength to this batch

edit: And there is no such thing as a "hate mob" theirs the disappointed fools and and the ones that like the taste of GW excrement

Mr Mystery

01-08-2015, 04:11 AM

There's a definite hatemob duder. Those who, no matter what GW will do, will decide it's clearly a personal insult to them.

Not many (if any) on this board like, but they are there.

daboarder

01-08-2015, 04:25 AM

There's a definite hatemob duder. Those who, no matter what GW will do, will decide it's clearly a personal insult to them.

Not many (if any) on this board like, but they are there.

I can agree with this, they invariably play solely other games though and are easily identified. The term however is essiantilly used most commonly by the worst apologists as a means of detracting from the statements by those of us that are able to think critically about GWs actions and either praise or decry them on each occurance

Mr Mystery

01-08-2015, 06:42 AM

Apologists isn't the right term for someone who challenges another's opinion. Apologists tend to go against fact with simple opinion.

Sadly there is a Troll in the Warhammer board pantry at the moment. Which is pretty rare for this forum, thankfully.

Earlybird's rumours just smack of utter nonsense. I kind of doubt he's even read Khaine, where one of the Elven Gods creates a pocket dimension world thing, and sends Araloth there. Strong implication is that this is precisely where the Warhammer World originally came from, and it's part of an eternal cycle. World is overrun by Chaos, so she creates a new world, which will take them a long time to notice, and even longer to break into. When that is overrun, rinse and repeat presumably ad infinitum. Which is actually pretty cool. Seeing as she only does this once, so far as we can tell, the whole 'floating dimensions' is palpably nonsense.

Erik Setzer

01-08-2015, 08:39 AM

They better not get rid of lizardmen wtf! My army would be useless and why would they cut out an army thats always been around??

Well, not counting the weird array of "armies" in its early life, Lizardmen actually came about in WFB5. They and Bretonnians were the armies in that starter box, and that was when both got their first army book. They were meant to be new additions (well, as armies... they'd been in the fluff) to spice up the game a bit.

And now both are rumored to get the axe in a shakeup to spice up the game.

Kind of like how Chaos and Undead all used to be one book each, then got split up, and are now going back to one book. Or how people are suggesting we're getting 4th edition Empire back.

- - - Updated - - -

TBH i have no issue with the setting of WHF being moved forward a little. Gives GW a chance to bring in new heros and some really powerful special characters.

Moving the background forward? Awesome. Heck, even shifting continents, I liked that concept.

Shattering the world into pieces floating in a bit of warp, like Warcraft's Outland? Now you're losing me. But it hits full stupid with the idea of islands floating around crashing into each other, and someone looks over and says, "Oi! That bus of Undead crashed into our bus because the wind picked them up and threw them into us! We're going to go kill them for having the audacity of randomly being slammed into us!"

That idea is so stupid that it feels offensive anyone would make it up even as a rumor. If it's real, then I'm going to wonder how many drinks and drugs are getting involved in the planning process in Nottingham.

- - - Updated - - -

Earlybird's rumours just smack of utter nonsense. I kind of doubt he's even read Khaine, where one of the Elven Gods creates a pocket dimension world thing, and sends Araloth there. Strong implication is that this is precisely where the Warhammer World originally came from, and it's part of an eternal cycle. World is overrun by Chaos, so she creates a new world, which will take them a long time to notice, and even longer to break into. When that is overrun, rinse and repeat presumably ad infinitum. Which is actually pretty cool. Seeing as she only does this once, so far as we can tell, the whole 'floating dimensions' is palpably nonsense.

Huh. I have to go and read through all of Khaine soon, get caught up on this. That actually sounds more like Warcraft's "Emerald Dream," which is an unblemished blueprint of the world the way it was supposed to be, before Old Gods got involved, and invasions came, and everything got messed up. There's even a reset process if the world gets too messy, they can just take the blueprint and rewrite the entire world with it (granted, killing everything on it in the process, but hey, that's what happens when you reset an entire planet).

I'd hope GW's idea is significantly different from that. Otherwise, I'm really going to start laughing at the "protect the IP" claims, because so far I hear a lot of ideas that sound suspiciously like they were taken from other settings, rules sets, or marketing "strategies." If you're out of original ideas, it's hard to claim that your attempts to sue everyone are to "protect the IP."

eldargal

01-08-2015, 08:41 AM

Yeah it's dumb, also makes no sense. I mean creating End Times lists so you can mix and match appropriate armies makes perfect sense, but removing the individual army books and halving the amount of product they can sell when they are the manufacturer doesn't. Saves shelf space? That's what popular items, new items and online stores are for.

Wildeybeast

01-08-2015, 12:11 PM

If those units aren't selling in the quantities required to make them viable (aka consistently profitable) then it makes sense for a public company to do this. I suspect that the molding and design process has become much much cheaper in recent years and the majority of the "costs" will be in shelf space, warehousing and maintenance. It wouldn't be the first time a company has looked at the profitability margins on their products and chosen to write off a bad investment to make space for future sales.

You have a point. However, more often than not the u its aren't selling because either they don't have good rules and/or good models. It is well established that if GW give them one or preferably both of them they we'll sell by the bucketload. Furthermore, you need to weigh up the saving of removing the line against the cost of pissed off long term leaving and never coming back. People do come and go, but getting rid of a unit someone loves and there is a model for, or worse still an entire army, that is guaranteed to lose GW ever their most loyal fans. Which is why they won't do it and this is a glimpse of the future wrapped up in a load of smelly horse poo.

40kGamer

01-08-2015, 12:27 PM

While I can't imagine GW implementing even half of the crazy changes in these rumours of doom, limited availability models and fewer core armies does sound like a potential strategy for a company that views itself as offering collectible miniatures rather than games.

BeardMonk

01-09-2015, 05:50 PM

Im mega tired but don't those new Skaven photos show the screaming bells on ROUND bases?

12220

Kirsten

01-09-2015, 06:10 PM

well, now that we have a plastic Thanquol and Boneripper, I demand a plastic Gotrek and Felix pair to kill them.

Houghten

01-09-2015, 06:11 PM

Im mega tired but don't those new Skaven photos show the screaming bells on ROUND bases?

12220

Looks like it, but Boneripper's still on a rectangular one...

Deadlift

01-09-2015, 09:43 PM

well, now that we have a plastic Thanquol and Boneripper, I demand a plastic Gotrek and Felix pair to kill them.

Couldn't agree more. I think Snorri deserves one too.

daboarder

01-09-2015, 09:50 PM

man so many thread, yeah the Screaming bells are on rounds and the boneeripper is on a rectangle

Houghten

01-09-2015, 10:26 PM

man so many thread

Yes, we know. You didn't actually have to post the round base thing in all of them. It was especially unnecessary in the Thanquol Spoilers thread, being related to 9th Edition instead of End Times.

daboarder

01-09-2015, 10:51 PM

sorry thought that the thanquol one was appropriate because of the release if its not I'm sure a mod will remove it

Erik Setzer

01-10-2015, 09:25 AM

Looks like it, but Boneripper's still on a rectangular one...

Simple explanation for that, actually: They painted up a new Bell and Furnace and put them on the newer style bases in prep for photos for WFB9. However, Thanquol is coming out for WFB8, so they already had to make one on a rectangular base for current photos. Rather than make another Thanquol already (and he might not last into WFB9 anyway), they just took the photo with him on his current base. Likely there was meant to be some cropping or something else done to cover up the different styles of bases... or someone just didn't think about it, because they don't know how rampant the Internet rumor mill is.

Mr Mystery

01-10-2015, 11:52 AM

I dunno. It may well be that you get both. Units you want to skirmish - round base. Units you want in ranks - square base.

We just don't know enough.

But boy can we ever speculate :p

What I'm currently pondering is how many points are we looking at, and will it follow the existing point structure? I've been poking my nose at the GW website, and looking at the price of some of the Warhammer boxes.

Orc and Goblins? 20 Gobbos for £20.50. Not a great many points though - 110 with command, spears and shields (which are all but compulsory on such a weedy unit!). But, three River Trolls? £28.50 - 135 points.

If....if the game works around 500 points? Even with an army noted for it's fairly low pound-to-point ratio, you can get started with £100 (not including rules though). And that's a core force you can use to build up from to a full on Warhammer army as we know it right now. Trick there of course is making sure each new addition is instantly usable, rather than 'practical point' gulf between them.

Ideal outcome for me? Even if it's online only, Rules and Battalion type deal for each race. Think contents of Stormclaw and that - two small armies and the rulebook, but able to choose which two factions you get. It's doable! And if they bung in unique characters? I'd probably buy the lot :p

Chronowraith

01-11-2015, 10:04 AM

Mr Mystery

01-11-2015, 10:42 AM

Bell and Furnace could be going the same as the Khainite wagons - self powered motivation.

Still intrigued by all this. Really, really don't think the advent of round bases equates to the death of square bases, but we shall wait and see!

Erik Setzer

01-11-2015, 11:04 AM

Ideal outcome for me? Even if it's online only, Rules and Battalion type deal for each race. Think contents of Stormclaw and that - two small armies and the rulebook, but able to choose which two factions you get. It's doable! And if they bung in unique characters? I'd probably buy the lot :p

That's an idea I'd love to see GW adopt. Just make a "starter kit" for each race. Don't have to do it as something like Stormclaw even. The small rulebooks aren't that expensive to print, so just chuck a small rulebook and a set of rules for the models in the box into a box with a starter army. Especially as more characters are made in plastic. It'd be pretty inexpensive to set up and produce, using existing molds and all, and would provide a great way for people to get started in the game or in a new army. Depending on the army, the ideal price would be probably around $75-$90 depending on number of models, which is a bit of a discount, yes, but still less of a discount than a two-army box is (given that trend to date), and having the entry cost being low helps pull in more customers. Once you hook people, they're going to play more games and want to collect more, so that barrier of entry needs to be pretty low. Now's the perfect time for them to do something like that, when they're revamping the game.

Harbinger Rising

01-14-2015, 03:28 PM

well, now that we have a plastic Thanquol and Boneripper, I demand a plastic Gotrek and Felix pair to kill them.

I second this. Make the little furball squirt the musk of fear 'til his glands are empty :D

Hopefully Gotrek will show up in the final battle royale of the End Times.

Mr Mystery

01-14-2015, 03:49 PM

That's an idea I'd love to see GW adopt. Just make a "starter kit" for each race. Don't have to do it as something like Stormclaw even. The small rulebooks aren't that expensive to print, so just chuck a small rulebook and a set of rules for the models in the box into a box with a starter army. Especially as more characters are made in plastic. It'd be pretty inexpensive to set up and produce, using existing molds and all, and would provide a great way for people to get started in the game or in a new army. Depending on the army, the ideal price would be probably around $75-$90 depending on number of models, which is a bit of a discount, yes, but still less of a discount than a two-army box is (given that trend to date), and having the entry cost being low helps pull in more customers. Once you hook people, they're going to play more games and want to collect more, so that barrier of entry needs to be pretty low. Now's the perfect time for them to do something like that, when they're revamping the game.

Key to the starter sets is that you get two forces - one for you, one for a would-be opponent so would totes need to keep that :)

odinsgrandson

02-10-2015, 12:05 PM

I don't know. The thought of a screaming bell or plague furnace in a low point game is pretty absurd Seer+Bell is 440 points without any items. Even more absurd when you consider they have to be pushed by 10 or more models (and if you drop below 10 models the bell and the unit can't move).

So *if* round bases are used for small skirmish games, it's weird they chose two units you wouldn't use in a small skirmish game.

I figured that it was about lowering the model count, but not getting rid of the large stuff. So, I think it might be a round based skirmish game with super powerful characters and lots of large monsters, and less like a new edition of Mordheim.

I think GW is trying to make an army less of a project. I mean, there are two reasons people are hesitant to start up a Skaven force, right? First, there's the money (and GW doesn't want to lower that) but then there's the time it takes to assemble and paint every last one of those rats, right?

Bigred

02-16-2015, 03:41 PM

via DakkaDakka's WhisperofTruth (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1440/630016.page): 2-15-2015

Oloh (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?405473-Warhammer-9th-Edition-Roundup-Discussion&p=7384500&viewfull=1#post7384500) said:

List of current model kits that will be officially included in Warhammer 9th. He later posted that this list is accurate, but incomplete, meaning there may be additional kits that survive that are not listed, with the implication being that you should be OK to purchase and paint these kits (but not base).

Araloth
Cauldron of Blood/Bloodwrack Shrine
Eternal Guard/Wildwood Rangers
Sisters of the Thorn/Wildriders of Kurnous
Witch Elves of Khaine/Sisters of Slaughter
Treeman
Savage Orcs
Night Goblins
Night Goblin Fanatics
Stonehorn/Thundertusk
Mournfang Cavalry
Thanquol and Boneripper
Vermin Lord
Warlord
Grey Seer
Screaming Bell/Plague Furnace
Stormvermin
Stormfiends
Doomwheel
Hellpit Abomination
Nagash
Coven Throne/Mortis Engine
Terrorgheist/Zombie Dragon
Mortarchs
Morghasts
Glottkin
Maggoth Lords
Gutrot Spume
Blightkings
Gorereapers
Wrathmongers
Chaos Spawn
Chaos Warshrine
Chaos Daemons
Ghorgon/Cygor
Grimm Burlockson
Josef Bugman
Runesmith
Ironbreakers/Irondrakes
Gyrocopter
7 Champions and an army of light.

No more Lizardmen, but still playable.
No more Gnoblars/Skinks. They become Goblins.
No more Beastmen.

Elves become more Eldary, units take on aspects of their gods.

There are some units like the Blood Knights that I expected to survive into 9th, but the events of the books have made me doubt this is going to happen anymore. They were due to be updated. Plus it fits with the new merging unit policy, not sure that's happening anymore though. Something similar happened to the Bone Giant, that being said I heard the Bone Giant was getting a redesign and a release some point in the future.

The game will become more Fantasy like, less cannons and warmachines. More magical. It's not just the "Humans" that get empowered by the gods all factions will experience this.

Mr Mystery

02-16-2015, 03:46 PM

Load of cobblers I reckon.

All existing models exist - no reason to remove any.

Plus, Araloth isn't on this world anymore. He's in a pocket reality.

daboarder

02-16-2015, 03:59 PM

all that just ticks further boxes.

GG GW

Cap'nSmurfs

02-16-2015, 04:40 PM

We don't know how the story ends yet. Until I see it from GW (or pics, or whatever), it's all speculation and rumour.

Bigred

02-16-2015, 04:46 PM

We'll know how the story ends in about 3 weeks.

Asymmetrical Xeno

02-16-2015, 05:00 PM

Interesting stuff, I've always been tempted to do a tomb kings army but never liked the core stuff - but since i don't play it wouldnt be a problem to buy up the stuff I do like (those snakes and the sphinx basicly) - perhaps I should do that and mount them on round bases lol

40kGamer

02-16-2015, 05:10 PM

I'm actually picking up random kits that I like just in case they do go crazy and chop WFB up like they did the Specialist games. Stuff I would've eventually got but just hadn't bothered yet. Guess it's a point to GW. :p

eosgreen

02-16-2015, 08:14 PM

Cap'nSmurfs

02-16-2015, 08:22 PM

We don't know that Lizardmen are getting the axe. People are speculating on limited information.

We know some Lizardmen survived thanks to Lord Kroak's spell. Not all of them blasted off into space! (Some of them did blast off into space).

I think once we see Archaon (or some storyline leakage) we'll have a better picture of how things are going to look. Until then - don't worry so much!

eosgreen

02-16-2015, 08:33 PM

Erik Setzer

02-16-2015, 09:23 PM

whats the actual story btw i havent followed any of it lol. just getting back into the hobby

In a very rough nutshell: Skaven assaulted Lustria en masse with Clan Pestilens, tried to drag the moon (Morrslieb) down which put the Slann in a coma trying to stop, then a bunch of Lizards got slaughtered, then the Skaven shot the moon and a bunch of it fell on Lustria and the Slann who weren't killed got burned out trying to stop those chunks from killing all of the Lizardmen, but the Lizardmen were doing their best to leave the planet already, sooooo... pretty much, those who didn't die, did their best to get the heck out of Dodge.

flipchuck

02-16-2015, 09:51 PM

eosgreen

02-16-2015, 10:25 PM

Hmmmm.....with that "list" for 9th edition, I don't see any Empire. And with the whole "less cannons and warmachines" approach to the game, looks like Empire loses a good chunk of their stuff. Too bad. The black powder idea was a cool part for fantasy. And what happened to Beastmen?

yeh i actually think they need to remove any monsters from the war machine factions and just fix the rules a bit. i think its safe to say humans/dwarves in most fantasy settings tend to not use monsters but some sort of science to make up for it. not saying copying is a good idea but it works well imo

also the lizardmen were already trying to escape the planet? to where lol

Orkimedes1000

02-16-2015, 11:29 PM

yeh i actually think they need to remove any monsters from the war machine factions and just fix the rules a bit. i think its safe to say humans/dwarves in most fantasy settings tend to not use monsters but some sort of science to make up for it. not saying copying is a good idea but it works well imo

also the lizardmen were already trying to escape the planet? to where lol

Terra....or maybe they made a pact with Tzeentch and are living in a smaller "EOT" (Eye of Terror) rift bubble. then they reappear once the moon rock radiation settles enough to not blister the slann's froggy hides. then they gather power with the necrons who later give power back to nagash who with help of Ahriman and Tzeentch's heralds the blue scribes among others a reversal spell, causing none of this to occur and the game is as is at the moment minus a few changes. :D it'd fit GW's fundamental urge to see chaos fail. not to mention the end times could be indefinite but in campaign form and since we only have speculation at this point we can well only guess or grasp at straws until we know for certain.

note: humor aside i was being 100% serious about the above. GW might possibly do what they always do. reset each edition back to default. nothing happens after ET's.....or everything happens.

Wildeybeast

02-17-2015, 12:42 AM

Load of cobblers I reckon.

All existing models exist - no reason to remove any.

Plus, Araloth isn't on this world anymore. He's in a pocket reality.

I could possibly see them getting rid of old metal/finecast models, but certainly not plastic ones. It makes literally no sense, especially getting rid of entire armies. Those things make money, why would they stop selling them?

Wildeybeast

02-17-2015, 12:59 AM

Also, if that list is incomplete, how do we know the full list isn't 'pretty much everything'? I mean there are some pretty big and obvious things missing like Glade Guard and Orc boys and everything from the Empire. It could be that this list is just stuff not getting new kits or the list is woefully misleading due to its incompleteness or is just made up nonsense.

Justus Ackermann

02-17-2015, 04:15 AM

via DakkaDakka's WhisperofTruth (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1440/630016.page): 2-15-2015

That list FOR SURE is incomplete. No Empire units = bullocks. Nothing from High Elves, and many of those kits (e.g. Skycutter, Shadow Warriors / Sisters ...) are pretty new. Some Dwarfs (the newer ones) but not all, like Hammerers / Longbeards. Some newer Dark Elves but again not all, like Executioners / Black Guard and so on…

Mr Mystery

02-17-2015, 04:54 AM

im so mad lizardmen are getting the axe. i wanted a new slann model SOOOOO bad. what the hell is with REMOVING an army? especially one of the original races with such a rich story

is it because no one plays them lol?

regardless im running at LEAST two bloodthirsters and a mono khorne army. thank GOD FOR PLASTIC GD or id never ever play wfb

They're not.

Obvious mince is obvious in that rumour.

Lizardmen have survived the End Times. This is known to anyone who has read Thanquol. Clan Pestilens however - yeah they're pretty much wiped out. Remaining Slaan and Skink Priests took to the skies, and Mazdamundi sacrificed himself to protect remaining Lizardman cities. Ergo, they're not even remotely all dead. Especially as those Sky-Ships contained the spawning pools.

Chronowraith

02-17-2015, 03:31 PM

As other's have pointed out... that list, if it's true purpose is correct, would have to be far from complete in order to make for a playable game.

Let's look at Skaven. The only models mentione don that list for Skaven are:
Thanquol and Boneripper
Vermin Lord
Warlord
Grey Seer
Screaming Bell/Plague Furnace
Stormvermin
Stormfiends
Doomwheel
Hellpit Abomination

Now, let's look at what that doesn't include:

Clanrats/Slaves
Plague Monks
Weapon Teams (Any)
Rat Ogres
Warp Lightning Cannon/Plagueclaw Catapult
Warlock Engineer
Plague Priest
Queek Headtaker
Snikch
Ikit Klaw
Tretch Craventail
Lord Skrolk
Assassins
Plague Priests
Night Runners
Rat Swarms
Giant Rats
Plague Monks
Censor Bearers
Gutter Runners
Jezzails
Poison Wind Globadiers

Now, let's assume that most of the character's not listed in tje "keep list" are either dead or in permanent hiding. Now ax most of the pestilens stuff since they are largely out of the game (of course WFB has frequently included characters that died in the past). That still leaves a good solid chunk of 10+ kits that would disappear which seems like an awful lot of forgetfulness. Hell, the list didn't even include Clanrats!!!!

I won't even speak of the complete lack of Empire units.

Will Fantasy undergo massive changes in 9th that may see restructuring of army lists? It's possible. Will they drop 20+ kits from a line that is supposedly staying around? Unlikely. Just my opinion though. I'm not going to argue with others whose opinion is otherwise.

Mr Mystery

02-17-2015, 03:34 PM

You know, it could be an updated list of what's gonna be available in store, given they have limited shelf space.

Cap'nSmurfs

02-17-2015, 03:41 PM

That'd make more sense. There's a lot of stuff which is already online-only, for all three systems.

But it's so weaselly. "Just because something's not on this list doesn't mean it won't be useable!" - so what's the point of the ****ing list?

I can't imagine no Empire units will be in-store, either.

Basically: maybe it points to something real, but it reads much more like someone listing Warhammer units from the top of their head than anything official or particularly insightful.

Mr Mystery

02-17-2015, 04:28 PM

Still reckon it's bollocks.

Cap'nSmurfs

02-17-2015, 04:51 PM

I do too. Just providing my reasoning. ;)

daboarder

02-17-2015, 05:26 PM

I just figured out where the lizardmen end up.

12836

and no I'm not referring to the squats

Erik Setzer

02-18-2015, 08:32 AM

I just figured out where the lizardmen end up.

12836

and no I'm not referring to the squats

I doubt it's connecting, but I did wonder about why the Lizardmen have "spawning pools" that sound suspiciously like the way the Tyranids create new creatures.

Tyranids probably aren't one of the Old Ones' creations, but heck, we see how far off-course the Monkeigh (Humans), Elder (Eldar), and Krorks (Orks) went... Heck, the Humans mutated so madly from their intended purpose that they ended up having people born who created a shadow in the warp (Pariahs), which is great for blocking away daemons and all, but kind of screws with a race (like the Old Ones) that tend to rely on Warp energy a lot for psychic powers/spells.

But yeah, I don't see Tyranids being something the Old Ones created, unless the Old Ones are so old they span the universe, and yet somehow still got wrecked. (Or, hey, let's just take this theory hog-wild: The One Ones *are* a universe-spanning race, the ones in our universe got wrecked by Daemons and stuff, and the other Old Ones created something to wipe out all the stuff in this universe that could potentially come and threaten them.)

Cap'nSmurfs

02-18-2015, 09:43 AM

but I did wonder about why the Lizardmen have "spawning pools"

I... think it's just a frogspawn joke, really. ;)

Erik Setzer

02-18-2015, 10:46 AM

I... think it's just a frogspawn joke, really. ;)

Well, the way it sounds, they have the basic ingredients to create new Lizardmen in there, and it just takes time to do it, and that was how they were trying to create enough warriors to hold off the Daemons, much less the Skaven. No eggs or anything, just straight-up pools that soldiers march out of having been formed with a purpose in mind.

And given the extent of the one Saurus's "tactical genius," I'm not surprised they can send them to war immediately.

Bigred

02-19-2015, 11:01 PM

WFB 9th Rules and Faction Changes
OK, this one takes some explaining:

This is a conversation between Harry, and Ikitlagriffe over on Warseer. (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?405473-Warhammer-9th-Edition-Roundup-Discussion&p=7387560&viewfull=1#post7387560) Ikitlagriffe initially wrote up a list of information on WFB 9th which was unclear. Harry then condensed the initial information (the black standard text), and invited the original poster to verify the re-written information and add clarifications. Ikitlagriffe did so (THE RED ALL CAPS TEXT).

Then Harry offered some extra information and insight at the bottom.

Here goes:

Are these from your own sources YES, FROM DIFFERENT SOURCES.
or simply your interpretation of what you have collected from the interwebz? SERIOUSLY ?... NO.

I am pretty sure you speak English very much better than I speak any other language NOT SURE ! SORRY FOR THAT.

9th edition will be 90% the same as 8th edition YES, ABOUT RULES, SAME OPINION FROM 2 DIFFERENT SOURCES.
The new 'Factions' ...
...will look so different from the existing armies they might as well be new armies YES
These new armies will be made from new units/characters MAJORITY YES
The new units will have a very different aesthetic from existing miniatures. 200% YES
The new units can be used by one or more of the existing armies. YES
OR can just be used as units for generic 'Forces of order' Or forces of destruction' armies. NO
I can keep my "OLD COLLECTION" YES
... but don't expect any new miniatures for a while? I CAN'T SAY THAT FROM WHAT I KNOW BUT LIKELY DEDUCTION
9th Edition will get a boxed set.I HEARD ABOUT A BOX OF BOOKS
In the box will be a rule book? YES
a skirmish Rule book YES / and a Warhammer armies book NOT EXACTLY : but a listing of playable units or pre-constructed groups YES.
The warhammer armies book will have a limited army list for each faction. YES, but I HAD NO INFORMATION ABOUT "FACTIONS"(and this number of "6" ??), so I would say "for each army".
There is a points system. YES
But it is not compulsory (So you can pick 'X' number of characters/units from the selection) SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
Skirmish is not intended to be the main way to play Warhammer ... but an alternative. YES
This will be a simple starter game without a lot of complex special rules. An introductory game. YES
Some fantasy miniatures will be supplied on round bases due to rules changes YES
... but not all.... just skirmishing units DON'T KNOW and units attached to ranked units? YES
...and big Warmachines? ATTACHED TO RANKED UNITS YES
Characters will be on round bases. (Or oval bases for cavalry) YES
... and so characters can no longer join ranked up units. PERSONAL DEDUCTION, BUT YES
I do not need to re-base my existing characters to use them YES - two times confirmed
Round bases are nothing to do with the new skirmish game YES.
You don't know what is going on with round bases EXPLAINED BY MINOR CHANGES OF RULES, FROM WHAT I KNOW.
Bretonnians will not get a new army book and will not get any new units STRICTLY SPEAKING YES
There will be some units which are a bit like Bretonnians in a new 'Forces of order' book YES
Loads of stuff coming for Skaven but you don't know when. YES
New skaven stuff will not look like the existing Skaven stuff but an evolution. YES
Beastmen ... future is uncertain but you guess they will find a place in Chaos. YES, I GUESS.
Lots of new stuff to come for Fantasy. YES
Most stuff will be new units monsters or characters. YES
Elite units will be smaller 2-5 minis.YES
Look of armies will change. OH YES !
Smaller armies with less miniatures and more big stuff. LOGICALLY
No information about new rules. NO DETAILS YES, BUT IT SEEMS TO BE MINOR CHANGES.

Then Harry offers up his response:

Firstly thanks for taking the time to do that ...it is much appreciated ... and not just by me I am sure.

It confirms a lot of stuff we have already heard ....

Whilst it would be great if 9th was 90% the same as 8th ... my worry has always been about the miniatures.
I guess I don't much like the new aesthetics what I always liked about Wahammer was the whole low tech, low fantasy, up to your knees in mud, feel it had. So I weep for the background ... but the real question for me remains will the new factions get 90% of the attention in terms of the releases. I have heard some armies will not get anything new .... Will any of the existing armies ever get anything else that matches the current aesthetcs in the future ... beyond the stuff that is already done and awaiting release window.

Cap'nSmurfs

02-19-2015, 11:25 PM

Maybe this will all be wrong, but like I said: this seems to make sense with what we're seeing in the End Times. Elite units of small numbers: see Morghasts and Blightkings and Stormfiends. Etc. etc.

Some of the aesthetics are already changing with End Times stuff, too. The Stormfiends are an evolution of the Skaven designs; the Mortarchs and Morghasts likewise straddle the VCs and TKs with something distinctively their own thing.

Thanks for doing this!

Mr Mystery

02-20-2015, 01:22 AM

So not rumours from Harry then?

Erik Setzer

02-20-2015, 08:34 AM

Maybe this will all be wrong, but like I said: this seems to make sense with what we're seeing in the End Times. Elite units of small numbers: see Morghasts and Blightkings and Stormfiends. Etc. etc.

Yeah, but I'm not sure it helps a game where people are already upset with ten models for $60 (Witch Elves, $6 per model cost) when you start making multiple kits where each model in the kit costs $10-$30. Blightkings are $50 for 5 (or was it $55?), these new Chaos releases will be the same. Morghasts are $60 for TWO. Stormfiends are $62 for three models, and are designed to be mono-pose models where every one that's armed the same will look exactly the same, and if you want a unit of three with the same weapons (or two weapons that share a body), you have to buy multiple kits, which stacks the price up a lot. Just the End Times "additions" for Skaven amounted to over $300 for me, and that's a whopping nine models. Nine models for what an army should cost!

If the whole game goes in the direction of tiny forces that cost hundreds of dollars, that's pretty much the opposite of what it needed.

But hey, these rumors could yet be untrue. Especially when they claim "only certain things" are on round bases and "only add-ons to units like weapon teams" but we've seen two models on round bases that are meant to be deployed in the middle of a unit and wouldn't make sense on their own (because they're pushed/pulled by the unit around them).

The rumors are freaking insane. The crazy thing is, we're not that far out, but we're getting nothing from GW. I don't think they've even warned the store managers about a huge upcoming release. In the past, they would have started hyping up a new edition to the players, but now, with everything being double super secret, we're left grasping at every conflicting rumor that comes along hoping for some remote idea of what might be happening to a game we've sunk hundreds of dollars into (or thousands, for some of us). That, more than any changes, pisses me off the most. This is not how you treat customers and employees.

Mr Mystery

02-20-2015, 09:43 AM

Stormfiends are 85 points a model.

So £36.50 isn't for three models, so much as a single unit of 255 points. Blight Kings likewise are points intensive, as are the Morghasts.

As a long term Warhammer player, I love units like these. Excellent models, pokey in a fight, and I don't need multiple boxes for a unit capable of punching it's weight and fulfilling it's role on the battlefield (as opposed to Witch Elves. Really, really nice kit, by 80 points of models, when I really need three, maybe four boxes is pushing it. Still cheaper than their metal equivalent though, so don't lose sight of that)

As for conflicting rumours? Ignore them. Completely. Harry and Hastings are reliable, but sadly not 100% accurate (nor do they claim to be). Anyone who isn't Harry or Hastings is not to be trusted in my book.

Cap'nSmurfs

02-20-2015, 09:51 AM

Worth noting that most of these rumours are far less "freaking insane" than that crazy (and 90% guff) set of "6th edition 40k rules!" a few years back that so many people got so excited about.

Mr Mystery

02-20-2015, 09:56 AM

Ah yes. You mean the 'leaked' set which were in fact entirely made up for reasons best known to the author yes?

Erik Setzer

02-20-2015, 10:02 AM

As a long term Warhammer player, I love units like these. Excellent models, pokey in a fight, and I don't need multiple boxes for a unit capable of punching it's weight and fulfilling it's role on the battlefield (as opposed to Witch Elves. Really, really nice kit, by 80 points of models, when I really need three, maybe four boxes is pushing it. Still cheaper than their metal equivalent though, so don't lose sight of that)

As an occasional unit, they're cool. If they become the norm, we have a problem.

And with Stormfiends, you DO need to buy multiple boxes. Each box comes with three bodies, each body has two weapon choices. Unless you're okay with three different weapons in a unit, and specific options only (i.e. you can't have the tunneler and ratling guns both, or warpfire throwers and plague wind launchers, or shock gauntlets and the grindy balls of doom), then you have to buy multiple boxes. I only know of two Skaven players who've bought them so far, of which I'm one, and another person wants to but has to wait until he's got about $200 ($199 and some change, after sales tax) to drop on them. That gives you three models for each weapon variant, unless someone wants, say, three warpfire throwers and three plague wind launchers. Lucky for me, I wanted three options that use different bodies (ratling guns, shock gauntlets, and globe launchers... first one chews up light units, other two ignore armor and are great for Chaos Warriors and heavy cavalry), so that meant just three boxes.

Morghasts, sure, only needed a couple boxes. I prefer the halberd ones, so they're a Rare Units choice. Still have to support them in combat, because they're Undead. (Alternately, have a Liche Priest nearby bringing their wounds back and buffing them repeatedly... I did that once to grind character down with them.)

But yeah, as side units, they're cool. If they became the main focus of the game, that's a huge problem. Even Warmachine ended up introducing basic infantry models so you had a force with some numbers to it that didn't cost an arm and a leg.

Path Walker

02-20-2015, 10:05 AM

It was a pretty good ruleset though

Mr Mystery

02-20-2015, 10:11 AM

As an occasional unit, they're cool. If they become the norm, we have a problem.

And with Stormfiends, you DO need to buy multiple boxes. Each box comes with three bodies, each body has two weapon choices. Unless you're okay with three different weapons in a unit, and specific options only (i.e. you can't have the tunneler and ratling guns both, or warpfire throwers and plague wind launchers, or shock gauntlets and the grindy balls of doom), then you have to buy multiple boxes. I only know of two Skaven players who've bought them so far, of which I'm one, and another person wants to but has to wait until he's got about $200 ($199 and some change, after sales tax) to drop on them. That gives you three models for each weapon variant, unless someone wants, say, three warpfire throwers and three plague wind launchers. Lucky for me, I wanted three options that use different bodies (ratling guns, shock gauntlets, and globe launchers... first one chews up light units, other two ignore armor and are great for Chaos Warriors and heavy cavalry), so that meant just three boxes.

Morghasts, sure, only needed a couple boxes. I prefer the halberd ones, so they're a Rare Units choice. Still have to support them in combat, because they're Undead. (Alternately, have a Liche Priest nearby bringing their wounds back and buffing them repeatedly... I did that once to grind character down with them.)

But yeah, as side units, they're cool. If they became the main focus of the game, that's a huge problem. Even Warmachine ended up introducing basic infantry models so you had a force with some numbers to it that didn't cost an arm and a leg.

How does having decent support units constitute a problem going forward?

Infantry should always remain the core of the game (unless you play Brets, natch). What we're getting now are interesting ways of supporting that core of basic infantry - units which can either engage heavier units which normally mince infantry (my Ogres fear Stormfiends, but don't tell anyone!) or help them to grind up opposing infantry formations much quicker.

No support unit should be able to go it alone - the clue is in the name. And they're already the norm, and have been since Warhammer kicked off all those years ago. Trolls. Ogres. Dragon Ogres. Heavy Cavalry. Artillery. Monsters. All single box units for the most part, not there to carry the day on their own, but to help ensure your infantry do.

Erik Setzer

02-20-2015, 11:14 AM

Infantry should always remain the core of the game

This is my issue. The rumors (or at least some of them) are making it sound like the future releases, and what we're encouraged to use, will be small units of elite troops, which would make those the core of the game. And really, if you don't have the large units on the table any more, it could be hard to stop some of those elite units. Stormfiends with ratling guns will make short work of a unit of 20 or fewer infantry. Monsters can wreck units of 10 or less infantry. So will these new units be the focus of the game, making all those infantry pretty much moot? Or will it remain similar to how it is now, which doesn't seem like it'd really fix some of the core problems with WFB? We have no clue.

It's all conjecture, I don't want to start a panic, and I'm more annoyed that we have to roll with all these conflicting crazy rumors, because GW won't even admit a new edition is on the way.

Asymmetrical Xeno

02-20-2015, 11:45 AM

eosgreen

02-20-2015, 03:37 PM

I'd be more interested in WHF if it focusses more on small units of elite troops myself, mostly because I don't like the look of any of the core troops for any of the armies but do like some of the "elite" ones. This might actually get me into WHFB, allthough I can see how it could equally put people off too (assuming it's all true of course!)

yeh the core units are often boring. id rather have smaller more dynamic units. that being said i love the idea of flanks and positioning that blocks give.

also from a hobby standpoint i put a TON of effort into even crappy models point wise so its nice in a way to not need to paint as much assuming the games are fun

Cap'nSmurfs

02-20-2015, 04:43 PM

eosgreen

02-20-2015, 06:43 PM

I WANA PAINT MY GODAMN BLOODTHIRSTER SO I CAN FINALLY PLAY WARHAMMER AGAIN

i literally refused to play warhammer without a non finecast centerpiece model. GIVE ME THIS U FHJASNIOGBNESDGBNL GW ****

whens archaon and gaulrauch/grim van horse man comin out. first warhammer model i EVER bought was the old grim man horse man

Cap'nSmurfs

02-20-2015, 07:06 PM

Pretty sure those Archaon/Egrimm rumours were as fake as fake can be, pal. Archaon on his horse is the cover model for his book.

eosgreen

02-20-2015, 07:42 PM

Pretty sure those Archaon/Egrimm rumours were as fake as fake can be, pal. Archaon on his horse is the cover model for his book.

then what was that crap about archaon on a dragon.... my entire world is crashing around me.... that finecast model is just full of molding errors and THE FUR SCULPTS ARE HORRIBLE AND ALWAYS RUINED BY FINECAST

also the archaon at GW is out of stock. are you sure they are not at least releasing a plastic version?

Cap'nSmurfs

02-20-2015, 07:46 PM

"then what was that crap about archaon on a dragon"

Answered your own question!

Asymmetrical Xeno

02-20-2015, 07:52 PM

yeh the core units are often boring. id rather have smaller more dynamic units. that being said i love the idea of flanks and positioning that blocks give.

also from a hobby standpoint i put a TON of effort into even crappy models point wise so its nice in a way to not need to paint as much assuming the games are fun

Yeah, it's been one of the major things that put me off WHF - I don't want to paint a LOT of models I don't like the look of. As I've previously mentioned in posts before, I have a soft spot for tomb kings but those core units just never appealed to me in the least but I love all the more "elite" stuff. I do wonder if this view is perhaps a more common one or not, as it might explain why GW would go towards a more elite focussed game to try and get more people into it.

Cap'nSmurfs

02-20-2015, 07:53 PM

Just Undead Legion it up with Vampire Counts skellies~!

Or use them in a TK army. Say they were barbarians from the frontier, enslaved to their rightful lords and masters!

eosgreen

02-20-2015, 08:25 PM

Yeah, it's been one of the major things that put me off WHF - I don't want to paint a LOT of models I don't like the look of. As I've previously mentioned in posts before, I have a soft spot for tomb kings but those core units just never appealed to me in the least but I love all the more "elite" stuff. I do wonder if this view is perhaps a more common one or not, as it might explain why GW would go towards a more elite focussed game to try and get more people into it.

i actually went and bought around 400 bucks worth of vampire counts and then gave up and sold the army almost right away. primarily because i hated the choices in cool vampires to be a centerpiece but also because of the zombies that were mandatory and... plentiful....

(btw i know the morghasts are super cool i just didnt wana clean them and paint all those skulls....)

Erik Setzer

02-21-2015, 08:44 AM

I assume that both the game and the models will continue to allow a variety of army builds, styles and sizes. It might even help with the lower-point games - a big stumbling block for entering Warhammer at the moment, as the game just doesn't... work as well at 1k as it does at 2k.

"Back in the day" (why do I feel so old when I say that?) they actually had side rules for "Warhammer Skirmish" and "Warbands." You could play a really small match with specialized changes to the rules, or even 200-500 point games with rules for limiting armies to maintain some balance, and even campaign rules for those. The rules were in White Dwarf *and* available as a PDF download. Kind of like how the 40K rulebook had rules for Kill Team and Combat Patrol included so people could play smaller games... but then they took those out of the rulebook and have since made Kill Team a dataslate that you have to pay extra for. For all that people talk up "more options" these days, there were a lot of options in the past, that you didn't have to pay for, some even included in the rulebooks. But we lost the rules for small battles and gained Apoc and Storm of Magic instead. Those are nice, but we don't just need rules for letting veteran players use more models, we need stuff to attract the newer players. Or even let the veteran players do 30-45 minute matches, like the "lunch games" they used to talk about the WD crew playing.

Wow, I already feel old today, and I haven't even gone to the store where I can tell people, "The dice in this bag are older than you are."

/sigh

Erik Setzer

02-21-2015, 08:54 AM

i actually went and bought around 400 bucks worth of vampire counts and then gave up and sold the army almost right away. primarily because i hated the choices in cool vampires to be a centerpiece but also because of the zombies that were mandatory and... plentiful....

(btw i know the morghasts are super cool i just didnt wana clean them and paint all those skulls....)

Zombies aren't "mandatory." I have a bunch but pretty much never use them. I prefer Skeletons, or even Ghouls. Skeletons over Ghouls, really. They do the job fine. If you feel Zombies are a better choice, you can do "filler blocks." The local GW manager was doing a unit of 100 Zombies, but rather than get five boxes and assemble and paint all of them, he grabbed various size bases, a Garden of Morr, some spare Empire, and modeled Zombies rising up in a graveyard fighting Empire soldiers. If a whole block couldn't be removed at a time, it'd just have dice set beside it to mark how many were dead (um... dead again). If you don't want to go to that much effort, you can grab 40mm square bases, use tombstones from the Undead kits, and slap a pair of tombstones on the back of the base and a pair of zombies on the front, which gives you four "Zombies" but you only have to paint two. I did that with five of them (so 20 Zombies, in effect), and modeled some of the zombies rising up, two "comforting" each other like they were family, one pointing to another zombie like "What the heck is going on here?!?", another guy holding his own head, and generally tried to give the look of freshly raised and confused corpses. It might not be "accurate" with the fluff, but it's easy and looks cool, and that's the important thing.

Can't say much on the Morghasts yet, they're my "treat" for finishing up more of the core units. But I occasionally get distracted by other stuff. Just finished some Spirit Hosts last night. They show how easy painting can be sometimes, I just sprayed them white and washed the spirits with Nihilak Oxide, and it gave a beautiful ethereal look. (Then I had to paint the skeletons they were rising from, and base details, but that's not bad.) You can churn out a lot of stuff fast and looking effective if you do the right tricks.

eosgreen

02-21-2015, 09:59 AM

Zombies aren't "mandatory." I have a bunch but pretty much never use them. I prefer Skeletons, or even Ghouls. Skeletons over Ghouls, really. They do the job fine. If you feel Zombies are a better choice, you can do "filler blocks." The local GW manager was doing a unit of 100 Zombies, but rather than get five boxes and assemble and paint all of them, he grabbed various size bases, a Garden of Morr, some spare Empire, and modeled Zombies rising up in a graveyard fighting Empire soldiers. If a whole block couldn't be removed at a time, it'd just have dice set beside it to mark how many were dead (um... dead again). If you don't want to go to that much effort, you can grab 40mm square bases, use tombstones from the Undead kits, and slap a pair of tombstones on the back of the base and a pair of zombies on the front, which gives you four "Zombies" but you only have to paint two. I did that with five of them (so 20 Zombies, in effect), and modeled some of the zombies rising up, two "comforting" each other like they were family, one pointing to another zombie like "What the heck is going on here?!?", another guy holding his own head, and generally tried to give the look of freshly raised and confused corpses. It might not be "accurate" with the fluff, but it's easy and looks cool, and that's the important thing.

Can't say much on the Morghasts yet, they're my "treat" for finishing up more of the core units. But I occasionally get distracted by other stuff. Just finished some Spirit Hosts last night. They show how easy painting can be sometimes, I just sprayed them white and washed the spirits with Nihilak Oxide, and it gave a beautiful ethereal look. (Then I had to paint the skeletons they were rising from, and base details, but that's not bad.) You can churn out a lot of stuff fast and looking effective if you do the right tricks.

yeh you can totally use fillers but if you are doing pure VC, zombies are always best no matter what

Asymmetrical Xeno

02-21-2015, 04:22 PM

Just Undead Legion it up with Vampire Counts skellies~!

Or use them in a TK army. Say they were barbarians from the frontier, enslaved to their rightful lords and masters!

I only really like the Spirit Hosts, but I'm planning to use those as 40k energy based xenos instead.

flipchuck

02-23-2015, 08:53 AM

I'm not to impressed with the new rumors list. I felt like the guy answering the question was either too lazy to give a full answer or was "beating around the bush" with his/her "yes, something like that" answers.

Also, according to the new rumors, character like Lords and Heroes have round bases while the rest of the army are on square bases and the characters can't join units now. It feels like GW is slowly turning Warhammer Fantasy into 40k.

The first time I played fantasy, I was coming from playing 40k so naturally my lords and heroes were on their own and not join by units. They didn't last long. Most of them were killed in their first turn.

Bigred

02-24-2015, 12:24 AM

via Voices in the Wind 2-24-2015
WFB 9th Box Content

- WFB 9th Starterbox follows the "Stormclaw/Exterminatus", with almost all existing minis and a unique boxed-set only hero model.

Chaos:

2 Warriors of Chaos units

1 Daemon unit

1 Chaos Warmachine

2 Lords (1 unique)

Forces of Light:

2 Empire infantry units

1 Empire cavalry unit

1 Elf unit

1 Warmachine (Dwarf possible)

2 Lords (1 mounted, 1 foot)

Non-Minis:

2 Rulebooks

Painting guide book

Army lists book

Solution9

02-24-2015, 02:17 AM

via Voices in the Wind 2-24-2015
WFB 9th Box Content

Oi vey

Houghten

02-24-2015, 02:47 AM

And... what? Island of Blood still available like Dark Vengeance was? It's had a bit longer of a run, and I find it hard to believe they'd drop the push-fit starter sets entirely.

Trojan66

02-24-2015, 08:08 AM

I very much doubt island of blood will continue as it comes with rules pamphlet that will be out of date.
Have you lot noticed that the independent stockists have started to sell off warhammer regiment sets cheap. Some great bargains to be had...but a sign that units are disappearing or just being reboxed ?

flipchuck

02-24-2015, 09:29 AM

I have to admit, I like the sound of the new box set. I might buy it for my 9th edition rules. Looks like we might be able to use (at least) Empire, elf and dwarfs together. I have been thinking that it would be cool to add a unit of Dwarf slayers and Wardancers to my Empire army.

Cap'nSmurfs

02-24-2015, 11:04 AM

Sounds kinda cool!

I think if you definitely want Island of Blood, get it now. It's five years old, which is about the usual lifespan.

Dark Vengeance was reboxed with new rules because it was not even quite two years old when 7th Ed hit. I wouldn't take it as precedent.

Wildeybeast

02-24-2015, 02:29 PM

MarneusCalgar

02-24-2015, 03:05 PM

New WD!!

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11016977_924931530859455_6097414614708630926_n.jpg ?oh=40dfdfd6037108703844c556cc4c28ca&oe=5590E200&__gda__=1431232393_5483dd2d00c52b1f960f2b68b375299 0

Wildeybeast

02-24-2015, 03:17 PM

Holy moly that looks good! I've always found Khorne the boringest of the boring Daemon armies, but that is a nice model.

Cap'nSmurfs

02-24-2015, 03:19 PM

That's what a Greater Daemon should look like. We've had to labour with sad, small (but cool when they were first released!) models for so long.

Erik Setzer

02-24-2015, 03:25 PM

Is it just me, or do a lot of the new models, especially large ones, have a lot of "squareness" to them, especially in areas that are muscled? Seems the CAD might be making them a little off without a person being able to hands-on "massage" the sculpts. Or that's a stylistic change GW's going in, which is possible, like WoW's oversized shoulder pads, or Warmachines' similar chunky look. Edge-highlighting all those sharp edges on the muscles probably isn't helping (and thankfully I doubt most gamers will do that).

eosgreen

02-24-2015, 03:47 PM

i was excited till i saw that head... i need to see the other heads.... that one isnt my fancy

Cap'nSmurfs

02-24-2015, 04:47 PM

It's because they're computer designed, yes. You lose something of the organic shape and texturing you get when sculpting by hand; the payoff is that you can do all sorts of cool stuff in plastic you couldn't otherwise (size being one of them). The kits since they went all-in on CAD have been a joy to put together too. I don't mind the slight blockiness personally. They'll probably get better with it in time.

I don't think GW's in-house painting style always shows these models at their best, either.

eosgreen

02-24-2015, 05:06 PM

flipchuck

03-02-2015, 08:01 AM

Shame wardancers are currently completely useless and have old metal models. :(

But....the old metal models look....cool....:(

Bigred

03-03-2015, 12:11 PM

via Voices on the Wind 3-3-2015

- Modular Terrain is Coming to WFB
- Similar in concept to the recent 40K interlinking modular terrain system, but Fantasy themed.
- To be released with WFB 9th, or shortly thereafter.
- Designed to to support the skirmish game.
- Look for aesthetic and stylistic cues taken from pieces such at the current WFB Watchtower and Chapel

eldargal

03-04-2015, 08:09 AM

Modular WFB terrain would be nifty.

Mr Mystery

03-04-2015, 08:23 AM

Yup.

8th Ed made terrain interesting, rather than something you just went over, round, but never ever through.

Groovy New Kits very welcome - especially if done in a more Mordheim style for the alleged skirmishy rule addition.

Definitely getting me a biggerer flat this year! I need room for a 6x4!

Asymmetrical Xeno

03-04-2015, 09:49 AM

Images of the new Khorne infantry units here :
http://www.talkwargaming.com/2015/03/news-new-skullreapers-wrathmongers-in.html

I guess they might be a clue as to what modern Berzerkers might look like too.

Mr Mystery

03-04-2015, 10:56 AM

Very nice!

Wildeybeast

03-04-2015, 12:12 PM

The models are nice enough, but another non-monstrous monstrous infantry unit is something I just don't get. All the cost of monstrous infantry with none of the benefits. Does anyone actually use those Nurgle chaps?

Chronowraith

03-04-2015, 01:21 PM

Not my cup of tea. I suppose they'd make god bits if you are a Chaos fan but... not my thing at all.

eosgreen

03-04-2015, 03:14 PM

i actually find these to be hands down the worst end times and frankly anything sculpts. could be the pics but the ones painted with flesh tones are just awful

Erik Setzer

03-04-2015, 10:57 PM

i actually find these to be hands down the worst end times and frankly anything sculpts. could be the pics but the ones painted with flesh tones are just awful

The paint jobs aren't helping their newer releases. I want to see a Bloodthirster painted by someone who actually wants to paint a decent looking model before I pass final judgment on it. Every close-up of it just calls out the fact that they're going way over the top on edge highlights, with every single edge having a harsh bright line painted on it, something they might think looks good in photos, but IMO looks bloody awful and just makes the chunkier sculpts they'd had lately even more noticeable. I wonder what happened to the 'Eavy Metal team, seems they've been wrecked as much as Priestley noted the dev team was.

Some of the stuff with the Khorne infantry looks okay, some doesn't, and I'm not sure how much is the sculpt and how much is the paint job. Though I have to admit I'm getting a little tired of chunky design that doesn't have the same detail it used to, because it's quicker and cheaper to do blocky design on a computer (and then people tell us we should feel blessed to only spend $116 on a model, or $55 for a bare-minimum sized unit).

White Tiger88

03-05-2015, 12:15 AM

eosgreen

03-05-2015, 01:05 AM

The paint jobs aren't helping their newer releases. I want to see a Bloodthirster painted by someone who actually wants to paint a decent looking model before I pass final judgment on it. Every close-up of it just calls out the fact that they're going way over the top on edge highlights, with every single edge having a harsh bright line painted on it, something they might think looks good in photos, but IMO looks bloody awful and just makes the chunkier sculpts they'd had lately even more noticeable. I wonder what happened to the 'Eavy Metal team, seems they've been wrecked as much as Priestley noted the dev team was.

Some of the stuff with the Khorne infantry looks okay, some doesn't, and I'm not sure how much is the sculpt and how much is the paint job. Though I have to admit I'm getting a little tired of chunky design that doesn't have the same detail it used to, because it's quicker and cheaper to do blocky design on a computer (and then people tell us we should feel blessed to only spend $116 on a model, or $55 for a bare-minimum sized unit).

im always fooled by the photos. i for a bit thought they blended it well but then the closeups came.... and it was bad..... extreme edge highlighting just photographcs soooooooo well its not fair. they have guys who can paint well but im 100 percent sure they are told to paint something we can PHOTOGRAPH well not something that looks good in hand

Trojan66

03-05-2015, 03:21 AM

Another box of over priced figures that look average at best and are painted to a below par standard.
This trend of having infantry on monster bases is clearly so they can do more dynamic poses without having to think about ranking up...with round bases coming this will clearly be the way forward.
In my opinion the best end times figure has been the skaven grey sear!
I have invested thousands of pounds and years of time building my warhammer armies...I am truly apprehensive about the next edition. I know a lot of what's coming guys...if you like the loose play of 40k with a handful of models your in luck...if not it might just be the end times for you and me.

Mr Mystery

03-05-2015, 05:04 AM

I wouldn't worry about the rumours.

In short, if it ain't from Harry (and that doesn't include Harry's english translation of someone else's rumour) it's almost certainly utter, utter nonsense.

Me? I'm all for small Hammer units coming into the game. These guy? Use Marauders for your Anvil, then bundle these guys in for the Hammer.

Erik Setzer

03-05-2015, 06:28 AM

im always fooled by the photos. i for a bit thought they blended it well but then the closeups came.... and it was bad..... extreme edge highlighting just photographcs soooooooo well its not fair. they have guys who can paint well but im 100 percent sure they are told to paint something we can PHOTOGRAPH well not something that looks good in hand

They might be able to paint well normally, but that stuff is just bloody awful. It really struck me that the painting article in last week's WD did a better job of teaching people how to do a proper paint job than looking at the photos of the studio models with those crazy highlights. It really sticks out how bad they are because they're doing them on anything that sticks out, so even the muscles have extreme highlights everywhere. It feels like what you'd see from someone who was told the basics of how to paint but had never really done it and took things too literally.

But I do envy the paints their hands' stability. I can barely do lines before I start losing eye focus and cramping up or going slightly off. Having to do that many thin lines everywhere... yikes.

eosgreen

03-05-2015, 10:04 AM

They might be able to paint well normally, but that stuff is just bloody awful. It really struck me that the painting article in last week's WD did a better job of teaching people how to do a proper paint job than looking at the photos of the studio models with those crazy highlights. It really sticks out how bad they are because they're doing them on anything that sticks out, so even the muscles have extreme highlights everywhere. It feels like what you'd see from someone who was told the basics of how to paint but had never really done it and took things too literally.

But I do envy the paints their hands' stability. I can barely do lines before I start losing eye focus and cramping up or going slightly off. Having to do that many thin lines everywhere... yikes.

relative term. it looks good in photos and on the tabletop from about 3 feet away. that makes it better than 999999999999 million trillion zillion khorne armys ive seen lol

Erik Setzer

03-05-2015, 10:46 AM

relative term. it looks good in photos and on the tabletop from about 3 feet away. that makes it better than 999999999999 million trillion zillion khorne armys ive seen lol

Photos that they're already touching up, it might seem okay, though it was bugging me in those even before I saw the close-ups. And from three feet away, some of us will still notice it and be seriously bothered by it. I've seen better painting from people who are just starting to actually paint at the local GW. It might not be as "crisp" but it doesn't look ridiculous. I've only seen one person use harsh edge highlights like that to decent effect, and he has a lot more subtle blending in his army. (And he's another one whose hand steadiness I'm jealous of, he managed to hand-paint a ridiculously gorgeous banner for his High Elves.)

I really can't tell if I like the Bloodthirster or not because of that paint job. Ditto for the new infantry. Granted, there's also a couple of issues with their sculpting that isn't paint-related (like how the chains all seem to be oddly shaped links or even completely solid links), I'm not sure if those are a problem with the computer design or their casting process. (If they're going to go cheap on the casting process to save money, we shouldn't be seeing plastic models over $100.)

eosgreen

03-05-2015, 11:46 AM

Photos that they're already touching up, it might seem okay, though it was bugging me in those even before I saw the close-ups. And from three feet away, some of us will still notice it and be seriously bothered by it. I've seen better painting from people who are just starting to actually paint at the local GW. It might not be as "crisp" but it doesn't look ridiculous. I've only seen one person use harsh edge highlights like that to decent effect, and he has a lot more subtle blending in his army. (And he's another one whose hand steadiness I'm jealous of, he managed to hand-paint a ridiculously gorgeous banner for his High Elves.)

I really can't tell if I like the Bloodthirster or not because of that paint job. Ditto for the new infantry. Granted, there's also a couple of issues with their sculpting that isn't paint-related (like how the chains all seem to be oddly shaped links or even completely solid links), I'm not sure if those are a problem with the computer design or their casting process. (If they're going to go cheap on the casting process to save money, we shouldn't be seeing plastic models over $100.)

welp when i paint up mine ill show ya. i'm pretty good :p.

DrBored

03-24-2015, 11:24 PM

Trojan66

03-25-2015, 07:54 AM

Sounds like you have some info that goes contrary to all the rumor sources that have said there won't be round bases.

He is quite right, round it will be.

eldargal

03-25-2015, 08:12 AM

If it's true, I wouldn't be surprised if GW sell movement trays with round spots for round bases so you can still rank them up into regiments for larger scale battles

Mr Mystery

03-25-2015, 08:25 AM

Yet again, reliable rumour mongers saying only witnessed play testing of round bases, and that it appeared it may be a game that sits alongside the current rules set.

Seriously. Go have a read of this thread's first page - the number of rumours already shot down is kind of amusing. Especially the 'Little Birds'

Erik Setzer

03-25-2015, 08:49 AM

Hate to be a bugger, but Fantasy 9th will be round bases. Once you get over the shock, it will make more sense when you see it. Don't base your new Fantasy minis quite yet, it may be time to wait and see lads!

Yeeeeaaaaah... Except I'd like to actually play with my figures. And I doubt square bases will be that big an issue, since I've already got a bunch of Daemons on square bases that people are okay with me using in 40K.

"Don't base your models" is basically like saying "Don't build your models," because many of the models - especially newer ones - need to be attached to a base to have stability (which also makes it a pain to play with them while painting them).

It would be nice to have something other than rumors. But hey, that's what you would expect from a company that gives a damn about its customers.

Houghten

03-25-2015, 09:54 AM

"Don't base your models" is basically like saying "Don't build your models," because many of the models - especially newer ones - need to be attached to a base to have stability (which also makes it a paint to play with them while painting them).

I would instead say "don't buy your models," if you believe the round-base thing really will happen. If it does, they'll get reboxed with round bases and you won't have to buy them separately at extra cost.

MichaelJohn

03-25-2015, 12:57 PM

The dude has 10 posts and everyone instantly believes him, i like it.

flipchuck

03-25-2015, 03:14 PM

I would instead say "don't buy your models," if you believe the round-base thing really will happen. If it does, they'll get reboxed with round bases and you won't have to buy them separately at extra cost.

I am not really worried about new models needing new round bases. I'm more worried about the 150+ models I have for fantasy fully painted with square bases. That's going cost a pretty penny to do.

Mr Mystery

03-25-2015, 03:18 PM

Except the rumour is clearly bollocks, and has been largely bollocksed by Harry.

Kirsten

03-25-2015, 03:32 PM

I just don't see what round bases would add to the game. there would have to be new movement trays with round holes, why bother?

Solution9

03-25-2015, 03:47 PM

So does this mean GW is going to supply everyone with free round bases then? I don't see myself opening my wallet just to purchases round bases.

Mr Mystery

03-25-2015, 03:54 PM

No, because the rumour is clearly bollocks.

Warhammer, despite allegedly low sales (unsubstantiated claim that, as GW don't publish a breakdown) remains the most widely played 28mm Fantasy Wargame, and I'm willing to bet by quite a large margin.

So why move the game away from that? It's as much a game of cunning, well planned deployment and manoeuvres as it is about beating your opponent's troops round the head with a stout club - if not more so.

It's what the game does, and because bollocks the competitive whiners it does that incredibly well, I just can't that being taken away.

Stuff being added? New ways to play which might involve a smaller scale and round bases for a skirmish scale ala Boremachine? That's quite something different.

If this is a move to revitalise disappointing sales, why force the thousands upon thousands of existing, if not necessarily active, owners of armies to ditch stuff en masse?

I'll tell you why - IT'S BECAUSE THE RUMOURS SAYING SO ARE CLEARLY BOLLOCKS.

Kirsten

03-25-2015, 04:06 PM

I could understand it being considered, Lord/War of the Rings had round bases and movement trays with round holes. but that was geared toward the smaller end of gaming. It would be a massive task to change Warhammer over to that system.

Cap'nSmurfs

03-25-2015, 07:39 PM

Even if the new edition uses round bases, there is no reason to rip up your minis and re-base them. You can still use those models to play End Times, or 8th edition, or indeed any new game: you can use models on square bases in a "squad" or whatever in the 40k fashion, if that's what the new edition is.

Nobody is going to force you to do anything.

People are, as usual, running around flapping their arms without really thinking.

Trojan66

03-26-2015, 02:27 AM

I only post this to ring balance to the speculations.
Mr mystery is adamant the game will remain the same; I am adamant that it will not.
He sites his 1 reliable source who has said it will not change. I can only say that , due to my job , I too am a reliable source who has felt the need to vent on this forum due to what I know is coming.
Mr mystery will scream for proof, I cannot present any pictures of leaked documents or photos of figures.
But can he present proof that the game will remain the same...

I present these facts to you..they will happen and you should be aware of how our hobby will change in its next version. I do not say it's all doom and gloom. Simply different.

GW has a great cash cow with 40k and wants warhammer to follow suit.
To play the game at the moment requires a great investment of time and money and excludes a lot of people who do not have this excess of either.
The game is complicated with rules that can still be interpreted in different ways by different gamers.
You have to make choices around your army that means you cannot buy all the figures you may want to, cause they don't fit in your army.
So...simple warhammer solutions. Smaller units in skirmish formations...yes on round bases...but who really gives one ( true?) no restrictions buy what you want, paint it use it.
The fluff shows you the way. The world is flattened, there are no more huge armies left, there is no great canvas on which these armies could meet, no cities to fight over.
Guys, its pretty obvious really isn't it ? And it will be fun, different but fun...
Mr mystery, feel free to have a friendly swipe at this sir !

Houghten

03-26-2015, 02:28 AM

Nobody is going to force you to do anything.

Wrong! I will force you to do anything! Aha! Ahahaha! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Mr Mystery

03-26-2015, 06:47 AM

No, it's not 'obvious' at all.

As has been mentioned on various occasions - right now Warhammer has a large player base. And said large player base have been at it a while, and will have large armies (I for one have around 5,000 points of Ogres).

Warhammer at the moment caters very nicely for games of 1,500 upwards (really hitting it's stride at 2,500 if you ask me).

What it doesn't do is scale downwards - and yes that means it can be off putting to newcomers.

Does that mean the whole thing is boiled down to a 40klone skirmish? No. Don't be silly. What it might mean is the addition of skirmish scaled rules - either as a supplement, sister product, or within the core rules themselves.

What you are claiming makes absolutely no financial sense whatsoever. There would be no compulsion for anyone to rebase anything - all it would do is help bring some new players. Which is of course a good thing. But skirmish games have their play roof - a certain amount of points which populates the board with some many models needing moved individually that the game becomes a chore. And that creates a spending roof - why would I spend the sort of money I have on my Ogres when I'll be incredibly unlikely to field it all, compared to 8th Ed where it's really easy to run a 5k game.

40k has this, but kind of got round it with Apocalypse, which was billed as allowing massive, weekend long games to take place.

Warhammer too has this points roof - but I've never met it, because yes I may have around 750 models on the field, but comprising maybe 25 units at most.

And you can keep going on about 'protecting your job' etc Except as a former GW staffer, and given you claim to have insider knowledge and are protecting your job one can only assume your are alluding to a job within GW, I can spot a present or former staffer a mile off - it takes a certain frothy hobby loonie who isn't that fussed for money. And you don't strike me as that - particularly given the negative bent to your statements (simplified to the point of 'snap' is a close approximation of one). I very much doubt anyone able to get into the design studio would ever be such a negative nancy - mainly on account they've probably had a hand in the design.

Then there are the inaccuracies in your posts - 'it's being playtested now'. Erm....nah. Not if it's due out in a month or two - would all have been finalised, page set and bunged over to the printers some time ago - even WD was printed at least three months in advance, meaning any writing would be done four or five months ahead of release.

So sorry dude, whilst I'm sure you have your reasons, I just don't buy any of what you're saying, particularly when it clashes with a rumour monger known to be connected and reliable.

Kirsten

03-26-2015, 06:47 AM

eldargal

03-26-2015, 07:13 AM

Warhammer is not complicated, i learned it at 12 and taught my brother when he was 7. The whole point of warhammer is to have regiments facing off, not skskirmishing units. They will lose a lit of players if this turns out to be true. Harry is still the one with the track record though.

Yup. Having it scale better from skirmish up to regiments makes sense, hell even having an integrated form of Mordheim included would make more sense than scrapping the Battles in Warhammer Fantasy Battles.

Auticus

03-26-2015, 08:21 AM

Throughout the history of the game as long as I have been involved, every edition change has had a line of people claiming to be "in the know" with a series of rumors that range from minor to lolWUT. Usually most of the rumors pan out to be false or badly stretched versions of reality.

Some of these rumors I feel are spread to simply incite rage and recruit people to other games.

We will see in a few months.

Cutter

03-26-2015, 08:45 AM

Some of these rumors I feel are spread to simply incite rage and recruit people to other games.

I haven't checked lately but I think that's what the internet is for.

(The rage inciting I mean, not so much the recruitment.)

Erik Setzer

03-26-2015, 09:27 AM

Yup. Having it scale better from skirmish up to regiments makes sense, hell even having an integrated form of Mordheim included would make more sense than scrapping the Battles in Warhammer Fantasy Battles.

I don't get what happened there... Fine, ditch Mordheim as part of killing Specialist Games, even though you could still have people playing it buying WFB models and support it with new rules for new WFB models. But they also at one point had Warhammer Skirmish rules (and Warbands rules for 200-500 point games), and ditched both. They were designed during 6th edition, maybe 7th? So they were generally compatible with the current rules. Just tweak a little, and boom, good to go.

It seems that, like with 40K, they decided to leave out the low-level rules so they could encourage people to buy large armies (with 40K seeing Kill Team at least come back as a nearly $20 digital download, meh), and that backfired because it meant they'd stripped out the entry-level versions of the game that also served to encourage existing players to try out new armies in bite-size chunks.

- - - Updated - - -

On the topic of round bases: I don't care. I will keep basing my guys as they are. I use Daemons with square bases in 40K because I based them that way to use in both games. I still have some older walkers and stuff for 40K that have square bases because that's what came with them back in the day. No one cares. If the game changes to round bases, no one will care if you keep using square bases. If they do, smack 'em with a heavy book.

grimmas

03-26-2015, 09:29 AM

I don't see the round base thing being particularly implausible or indeed something that will matter too much. If they follow the LoTR/WoTR model, in the skirmish game it doesn't really matter what base shape one uses and is this likely to be a gateway game ( more on this later) so people with existing armies won't be playing too much or if they do it won't really matter as it will be a fairly relaxed beginners affair. For the battle game again it doesn't matter as it will designed to be played with movement trays, much like WFB and WoTR does, so again it doesn't matter what bases the individual models are on. The movement trays for round bases already exist for WoTR. It also means GW only has to make one shape of base which is better logistically

It makes good sense to have a gateway skirmish game like LoTR as this provides a good entry point to the hobby. This was certainly the case during with the original LoTR game as people were playing that and then moving on WFB for something more. So much so it pushed WFB sales to equal with 40K, something that hadn't happened before or since. ( I know this because I worked for them at the time and they did tell store managers that sort of thing then)

And anything that gets more people playing WFB is a good thing.

Of course they didn't need the End Time to do any of this however. But let's face it the background was such that most of the Races would have not even met each other let along fought battles against each other. So it need to be shaken up to added a more plausible narrative and whatever the "competitive" crowd say it is pretty crucial in a fantasy game setting. e

Path Walker

03-26-2015, 09:34 AM

The trouble with Mordheim/Necromunda was that their rule systems, while fantastic, were diverse from the core games, this is not ideal, people don't want to learn new sets of rules to play a game, Necromunda launched when 2nd edition was strong and the rules were the same with a few additions, it did well and launched 2 other similar games, Mordheim didn't do well at the time, its rules were very very different from WFB, more like 2nd edition 40/Necromunda, which had been replaced the year earlier with the streamlined 3rd edition, and people didn't want the skirmish level fantasy game that GW were offering.

Always odd to see people shouting at GW about ditching games/ranges when at the time the sales were stagnant. Same with Squats, to paraphrase Jervis "Where the hell were all these people when no one was buying Squats?"

Mr Mystery

03-26-2015, 09:47 AM

"Where the hell were all these people when no one was buying Squats?"

That's easy - not playing 40k on account of quite possibly still being little more than a twinkle in the Milkman's eye.

Srsly. Squats went the way of the Dodo officially back in 1998 when 3rd Ed came out, and received little more than a handful of models for their Epic range in....ooooooh.....1993ish, with Titan Legions?

I've been doing this hobby for yonks, and have never met a Squat player anywhere near my age - and I started young in 1989.

Ergo, many Squat Enthusiasts are just Hobby Hipsters, all dewey eyed for something from the past. Not because it was necessarily any good, but because it's from the past, and thus Hipster.

Erik Setzer

03-26-2015, 09:50 AM

Of course they didn't need the End Time to do any of this however. But let's face it the background was such that most of the Races would have not even met each other let along fought battles against each other. So it need to be shaken up to added a more plausible narrative and whatever the "competitive" crowd say it is pretty crucial in a fantasy game setting. e

This is no more true than suggesting the same of 40K. There were many reasons the various forces could run into each other. Just because a lot of people were too lazy to actually figure it out doesn't mean it wasn't there. Okay, so maybe Kislevites and Lizardmen might seem odd... except what if some Kislevites were going to Lustria to search for some kind of treasure, or the Lizardmen found a Chaos relic in Kislev and were coming to cleanse it but failed to mention it to the Kislevites to warn them? See, right there, easy ways to explain a fight between the two.

People can't say they care about the fluff and then say they have to be spoon-fed reasons to fight, when the fluff gave so many reasons.

The real problem is that a lot of their looks weren't unique enough to copyright (leading to some companies releasing very similar models for a lot less), and the world map was basically a very slightly altered Earth, with a lot of groups being based on their real world locales (i.e. Lizardmen being Aztec/Mayan, Kislev being Russia, Norscans being Norsemen, Albion is England/Ireland, Nippon and Cathay just straight up use real names for Japan and China, Hobgoblins were Mongols, Chaos Dwarfs were Russians, Khemri was Egypt, Tilea and Estalia were Italy and Spain, etc.). But heck, they could have reshaped the globe without completely exploding it. Might have taken a bit more work to explain, but given the level of catastrophe happening, probably not.

Eh, we'll see what they did with the fluff. But I'm sure those models that fit as Warhammer units but cost 50% or less were a determining factor in the shakeup.

Mr Mystery

03-26-2015, 09:53 AM

I'm not sure it was a geographic problem with the background, so much as...well....it was all terribly generic.

Good, but generic.

End Times got my attention, and looking at how fast that stuff sold out, I'm far from alone. Mayhap the entire thing was a colossal publicity stunt, spread over five volumes of win with some nice models to remind us what the game is about. Herald of the New Times - new edition released with heightened interest from lapsed gamers.

grimmas

03-26-2015, 10:06 AM

That's just the point though Erik one really does need to come up with quite a bit of story to justify battle between the various races, it seems to rely on various armies wondering around thousands of miles from home after having travelled through other hostile lands just to get there. Take your Lizardmen example it's not just Kislev that's implausible the same would go for them fighting, WoC, the Empire, bretonnian or Ogre Kingdoms. The same goes for Khemri. It just takes (or rather took) too much justicification to make it seem plausible. You may say people are lazy but games with better settings do seem to sell better

Edit

Of course everyone you could just go with "their ship gets blown off course, with a whole army on it" but that gets old pretty quick.

Erik Setzer

03-26-2015, 10:47 AM

Again, the same could be said for 40K. Or any world unless you throw everyone onto the same square mile of land, so they can't help but run into each other all the time. Or come up with some lame claim that everyone is on a cosmic island that keeps bumping into other cosmic islands and people fight "just because" (which is one of the rumors that had come out about the new background).

In ALL scenarios, you have to use imagination to come up with a reason X army is fighting Y army. How did Cadians end up running into Chaos Marines? Why are Blood Angels fighting Dark Angels? I could list example after example. And how can Warmachine pull it off, or other fantasy settings?

So, basically, people need all of the races to be dumped into a blender, so they can fight for eternity, with no reason as to why, just so people don't have to think about why X might be fighting Y.

Yeah, that's not a problem with the setting, that's a problem with people.

Let me show you the bigger problem:

http://www.avatars-of-war.com/eng/web/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=129&Itemid=143&armycode=Warthrone+new+releases

Skim through that selection. I see Chaos Marauders, Dwarf Ironbreakers, Dwarf Slayers, Witch Elves, a War Priest, a Witch Hunter, Orcs of various kinds, Goblins, Necromancer, female Vampire, human captains, Chaos Warriors, Chaos champions, Dark Elves, Saurus characters, Dwarf Rangers, Dwarf handgunners, a Beastman lord, a Skaven chieftain, a Khorne Herald, and a Nurgle Herald, along with some other stuff. All of it fits perfectly into Warhammer's aesthetic, and they can't stop it with Warhammer the way it is now. And since that stuff looks pretty good and the regiments are much cheaper than GW's, that creates a problem. Heck, if I didn't play primarily at a GW store, I'd have some of those characters at least, because some of those characters are, IMO at least, better than GW's (especially the Dark Elves, the humans, and the Chaos Warriors). And they fit perfectly! So, yeah, blow up the Warhammer world and redo the races to be easier to copyright so there's less competition for people's money (rather than do a better job with pricing and all).

Punch Kick Punch Kick

03-26-2015, 11:02 AM

I, for one, fully agree with Eric.

Also, as a personal note, my group has rarely come up with narrative stories for battles. We play way too often ot try to justify every single fight. Most times, if we cared to, it was as simple as "We saw one another and said "**** those guys!"" Hell, Dwarves are super easy to justify cause they literally have an army rule for how much of a reason the army has to be there to fight the enemy.

And this is coming from a group that is hugely role-play and narrative oriented.

WyattAyars

03-26-2015, 11:42 AM

I have been playing 40K but I think I will wait to start fantasy until after the change :)

Erik Setzer

03-26-2015, 11:43 AM

There's a mix of people in the group I play with. Some just want to line up and go at it (and bring the nastiest army they can think of), some want to play scenarios and make up a reason for why something's happening. I remember one game, my opponent and I rearranged the table to put the four hill corners together to create a big hill that the Imperial Guard (actually "separatists") set up on, and I assaulted them with a Space Marine army designed for a quick hard strike to "punish" them. It was appropriately called the Massacre at [Something] Hill... poor Guardsmen ended up with a Knight stomping through the middle of platoons squishing everyone. We even come up with reasons for why the terrain is what it is (like when we play 40K on a Warhammer-themed board, or fighting over a farm in WFB).

grimmas

03-26-2015, 11:56 AM

That's a fair point Erik. Though I'd say that the beauty of 40K is that it's background and setting perfectly explains why any 2 factors would be fighting and the whole narrative is there already, where as in WFB an extra narrative needs to be explained just to justify the battle.

I won't argue against the IP/Copyright issue I think you're on to something. But any IP doesn need to be good and lend itself to creating the game situations rather than just being unique. For example if you think back to 1st Ed the Slann were pushed as the fantasy "baddy" race and featured in the beginner game, however they were soon replaced by Orcs fairly quickly because that's what people like. So although I do agree with your point I think GW needs to be a bit careful to avoid shooting themselves in the foot on that one

silashand

03-26-2015, 10:41 PM

So, yeah, blow up the Warhammer world and redo the races to be easier to copyright so there's less competition for people's money (rather than do a better job with pricing and all).

Pricing (and 8th edition IMO) is what drove people away from Warhammer. A complete rewrite so they can try and lock people into their overpriced miniatures is enough to make almost every remaining player I know dump GW altogether. I know I personally, and for the first time in 20+ years, have completely lost interest in GW's offerings based on the projected/rumoured changes. Sure, maybe 9th edition won't be bad in and of itself, but I seriously doubt it will be anything at all like the game I actually chose to play all those years ago. I will likely look over the rules once they come out, but frankly my interest is pretty much gone now. Between their prices and their idiocy GW have finally driven me out of the hobby.

On a positive note I did find out that I like Black Powder and was able to pick up a decent 100 Days British army for about $150 :).

HappyDad

03-27-2015, 04:21 PM

Pricing (and 8th edition IMO) is what drove people away from Warhammer.

This is absolutely the point which I don't think we are taking on board. We have been saying for years that GW would eventually price themselves out of the market place. It happened to me - price rise after price rise I stuck with it. For years I waited for new plastic dark elf warriors and witch elves to replace mine (amongst other models I looked forward to as well). Finally they arrived, with some quite nice new Executioners and Black Guard too, but at a price point that was just too far for me. Finally, and with horror, I realised that no matter what came out - I was priced out of the hobby. I just would not enjoy buying them when they cost that much. Since that point, I have only bought a few pots of paint from GW.

I imagine I am not alone here.

So now we hear Warhammer sales have crashed to the point that GW are calling it off.

I think the biggest reason for this is not because of the draw of WM/WH, X-Wing, or because people were bored with the Warhammer world and wanted the background to 'move on'. They just finally did it - they pushed themselves out of the market.

All those doomsayers were right.

silashand

03-27-2015, 07:50 PM

I would have loved one of the new Bloodthirsters. But at $116 it was a non-starter before they even released the model no matter how nice it may have turned out. Maybe some addict will still buy them, but it won't be me...

Mr Mystery

03-29-2015, 04:59 AM

Had a chat with my local manager, and seems that there's no leave for GW Staff for the April/May weekend.

Of course, couldn't/wouldn't say more, but I sugget we have wallets at the ready.

Erik Setzer

03-29-2015, 09:09 AM

Had a chat with my local manager, and seems that there's no leave for GW Staff for the April/May weekend.

Of course, couldn't/wouldn't say more, but I sugget we have wallets at the ready.

Probably "couldn't" is accurate. Our local manager seems to be stuck relying on rumor websites most of the time to have an idea of what's coming up (or spotting new SKUs in the system). Which seems like a really poor way of handling things for GW.

If that's the time the new WFB drops, it'd be, well... kind of stupid. I know a few people who've already dropped some solid cash on the new cases they just released, and multiple folks wanting to build an AdMech army which will soak a good bit of money out of them. And then hot on the heels of that, a new edition of Warhammer? At that point they'll probably skip it and stick with 8th for a while, because they can't afford it after spending money on the cases and AdMech. And even just the hint of that release time frame makes me want to leave the cases alone for now, cements my decision not to jump on the AdMech bandwagon at this time (the walkers kind of killed my interest already, until I see a more reasonable armored unit), and has me feeling like I only want to pick up maybe an extra box or two for my Khorne army and otherwise not spend any money on GW stuff lest I'm stuck unable to get a key purchase.

At some point this secrecy is going to seriously backfire...

Mr Mystery

03-29-2015, 09:12 AM

Meh.

I get paid monthly, so no big issue for me.

Though The Beast does need it's welding and links and exhaust doing so it can get back on the road....might be a month or two before I can hobby!

flipchuck

03-29-2015, 02:38 PM

For me, I too have been hearing the rumors about round bases in fantasy. Even to the point of having the War of the Rings movement trays (made to put rounds bases to line up in a square formation). And for me, if the round base became optional, then that's fine. But making it as a part of the rule where you must have round bases wouldn't make sense to me. Where as the new movement trays for the rounds bases lines up the models for a square block. But my square base models on the old movement tray does that too. And I find that having either a square base or round base for skimrish type of games don't make that much of a difference since I have played both necomunda and mordheim. The movement in and around terrain and base to base contact with models hasn't really changed much based on the type of base.

And I still believe that GW moving along the fluff, killing characters and such was pretty cool and needed until they destroyed the whole world.

With the whole bubblehammer rumor happening, if it ends up being chunks of the old world floating around in the Choas warp, then that would be ok because it's still parts of the warhammer world. So you could still have your old battle grounds and old cities like before. The only different is mainly the sky isn't blue anymore, with float chunks of land in the distant sky. It could work.

But I still perfer they didn't destory the warhammer world though.

Wildeybeast

03-30-2015, 05:51 AM

Probably "couldn't" is accurate. Our local manager seems to be stuck relying on rumor websites most of the time to have an idea of what's coming up (or spotting new SKUs in the system). Which seems like a really poor way of handling things for GW.

If that's the time the new WFB drops, it'd be, well... kind of stupid. I know a few people who've already dropped some solid cash on the new cases they just released, and multiple folks wanting to build an AdMech army which will soak a good bit of money out of them. And then hot on the heels of that, a new edition of Warhammer? At that point they'll probably skip it and stick with 8th for a while, because they can't afford it after spending money on the cases and AdMech. And even just the hint of that release time frame makes me want to leave the cases alone for now, cements my decision not to jump on the AdMech bandwagon at this time (the walkers kind of killed my interest already, until I see a more reasonable armored unit), and has me feeling like I only want to pick up maybe an extra box or two for my Khorne army and otherwise not spend any money on GW stuff lest I'm stuck unable to get a key purchase.

At some point this secrecy is going to seriously backfire...

The guys in my local store told me they basically find out what is coming when they get the latest WD in stores each Wed/Thurs, so they basically know as much as we do in terms of new releases. Though I did find out that all LotR/Hobbit stuff will be disappearing from stores and going online only, freeing up shelf space for something, though they have no idea what.

Mr Mystery

03-30-2015, 06:28 AM

Dunno about other stores, but my local GW only has a tiddly section for Hobbit Of The Ring - could be a new single box game.

Which could fit.....

Currently, we have Skitarii coming out. First week is now, and perhaps two more, taking us up to 13 April. May be a four week release, depending on how large the release is, so possibly 20th April. That leaves a single slot before Managers aren't allowed to book annual leave for a fortnight period.....

Erik Setzer

03-30-2015, 08:20 AM

Dunno about other stores, but my local GW only has a tiddly section for Hobbit Of The Ring - could be a new single box game.

The one here had enough space to hold a decent selection of LOTR boxes (mainly because most of them are squad-size boxes) and a bunch of blisters, but it's since been shrank down a lot, and a good bit of its space converted into more space for new releases (since it was toward the front of the store). The space that's left is big enough for something like Horus Heresy, even with squad boxes, some vehicle boxes, and multiple blisters.

But it was actually selling okay at times here (when people actually played it, they enjoyed it... but finding games wasn't as easy as 40K/WFB), so it might have had more space allocated than normal.

Mr Mystery

03-30-2015, 09:36 AM

It's a surprisingly popular system, it's just never really caught on in a tournament setting. Which is daft, as having played it, it's by far the tightest rules set GW have ever produced. Heroes are very much force multipliers, but you need to be crafty in order to bag a win, as they're very well pointed compared to Mooks. Just like the movies, all they're winning their fight, they're safe as houses, but whiff just one batch, and it's 'GOT YOUR LEGS' time for them.

Erik Setzer

03-30-2015, 10:00 AM

Had a game with Elves against Goblins, 300 points, my opponent brought two Goblin Scribes, and he just kept summoning Goblins. When the Elves were surrounded, they could be brought down, but once they fought their way out of a mountain of Goblin corpses and started firing their bows again and took out the Scribes, it was just a massacre. It felt pretty thematic but also reasonably well balanced.

I honestly wouldn't mind WFB9 having that kind of feeling, where the lowliest troops can actually bring down a hero if they surround him.

Mr Mystery

03-30-2015, 02:40 PM

Happens already thanks to combat - you just need to disrupt your opponent's line and expose his flanks, which is a large part of the game.

I still don't see the whole game going round base. Tweak the rules so smaller units have advantage beyond being cheaper in points, and do something about Steadfast - it's a great rule, and has changed the game, but it's open to daft levels of abuse with proper chaff units.

Perhaps have a differing threshold for steadfast - maybe even a new stat. Just before I started playing, you had Willpower, Leadership and Cool. Let's bring back Cool as an example....

Cool can be added to your break test whenever you have more ranks. Highly disciplined races such as Elves of all stripes and Stunties would have a high Cool rating. Men as ever, middling. Gobbos and Skaven lower ones.

Keeps chaff units around in tight combats, but not when they've been horribly, horribly Roflstomped - for instance that time my Ogres literally mashed 36 or so Skaven Slaves in combat, only to have them stick around thanks to still having 5 ranks, and their Warlord kicking about.

Changes the dynamic of the game somewhat, and a lot more thought as to assigned Values!

Other way? Cool represents a 'back up' Leadership, akin to a Ward Save. You can either use your standard Ld, or the immutable minimum offered by Cool. This would be easier to assign. Men? Cool 4. Dwarfs? Cool 6. Elves? Cool 5. Skaven and Gobbos? Cool 3. Characters can perhaps boost this, but by no more than a single point. Keep it related to Banners, and once you've legged it once, NO MORE COOL FOR YOU!

That'd be..................cool

Kirsten

03-30-2015, 02:44 PM

if they are worried about needing too many models to play, they could always go back to the old four wide for a rank bonus, that would bring unit sizes down simply enough.

Erik Setzer

03-30-2015, 06:49 PM

if they are worried about needing too many models to play, they could always go back to the old four wide for a rank bonus, that would bring unit sizes down simply enough.

Well, Horde formation actually is the bigger culprit, IMO. I get that it was meant to help the cheap units of lesser troops like Empire state troops, Orcs, Goblins, Skaven, etc. have a better chance against elite units, but then everyone started doing Horde formations of Chaos Warriors, Witch Elves, Swordmasters, White Lions, Phoenix Guard, etc.

Ironically, that led to the cheaper units forming up in thinner ranks so they could get more ranks and thus be stubborn longer and hold up the enemy unit.

Back during 4th and 5th edition, there was an article by Rick Priestley in White Dwarf talking about the "crazy" idea of using 50 Goblins in a unit, because such a huge unit would surely be a surprise to the enemy (if a bit unwieldy)! Now, it seems like 50 is the minimum for a unit of Goblins, and you see units that size all over the place. In 6th edition, I knew a guy who made a large Dwarf unit that was his "death star" unit (not really uber-powerful, the name was a joke, but it *was* pretty tough to kill). That was most of his army, easily. It was something very different and threw people off. It's now considered a moderate sized unit.

The game got to where people could and would field large units of elite troops, and that meant people needed very large units of chaff troops to combat them, and along the way GW never bothered re-doing the rules for Warbands (200-500 point games) or Skirmish, so they were actively encouraging people to go with larger games. Much like they're doing the same with the newer 40K codices, using formations of formations rather than normal detachments (in a 2000 point Daemonkin army, I can only get a practically minimal Slaughtercult and Daemon formation and the "command" Bloodthirster... no other options, so either I leave out the Daemons to be able to take some stuff, or I have to play at least 3K or higher to feel like the army has flexibility). I get that larger armies theoretically means more sales, but when people look at how big the armies are (heck, people don't even want to play 40K below 2K now, they prefer 2500 or higher!), and then add up that cost, it turns them off. It happened to WFB, and we're all thinking they might do something to fix that... but they're following in the same style with their flagship game, so I'm not sure if we can really expect that.

Guess we'll see in a few months. All the rumors so far are conflicting like mad.

silashand

03-31-2015, 04:42 PM

It's a surprisingly popular system, it's just never really caught on in a tournament setting. Which is daft, as having played it, it's by far the tightest rules set GW have ever produced.

LotR is a good game to be sure, but I think their Specialist Games (Warmaster notably) were actually the best rules they ever released. JMO though. It's a shame LotR never caught on as well, though when they want $45 for Elrond on horse and foot (and in Finecrap as well) it makes perfect sense why people won't play it. Their idiotic pricing pretty much killed it too around where I am at, though admittedly you needed fewer models to play.

WotR was also good, but unfortunately cost *way* too much to play the big games and there were some version 1.0 issues with it that should have been corrected, but never were. Ah well...

Erik Setzer

03-31-2015, 06:08 PM

Legolas, Tauriel, two boxes of Mirkwood Rangers: 500 point "army," $130. Yeah, still a bit more than it should have been, but it was palatable.

Dalleron

03-31-2015, 08:08 PM

If fantasy went LoTR style, I'd be for that. I loved that ruleset, and agree that it was pretty tight, next to no wiggle room for arguments. Shooting was rather meh and I played elves, but that could be fixed. Wish I could play more of that game.

So very interested in what happens to fantasy. I was looking into getting back into fantasy, as I have a sizeable DE army that I acquired models to upsize some units. Now I'm waiting to see what comes about in the new edition.

eosgreen

03-31-2015, 10:10 PM

the thing fantasy has potential to do that 40k does not, movement manipulation. fleeing intentionally and using blocks to increase the flee distance, manipulating WHERE a flee happens which blocks charges. blocking charges and prohibiting movement. all of these things are MOVEMENT based. ever wonder why the best fighting game players use fast characters? outplayability. movement usually = potential skill. the "blocks" function as an important role of creating this focal point for you to manipulate around. if there was no combat there would be no flanking but if block sizes decrease or go away, i cannot see this system working and it may as well just be 40k.

that being said im also excited and scared. fantasy is "cooler" to me atm aesthetically and overall the setting but im not that diehard that i wouldnt drop it for 40k if it sucked....

Mr Mystery

04-01-2015, 01:35 AM

Yep. Agreed.

Anyone can set up a brutal charge, but it takes skill to arrange that whilst denying the same to your opponent - especially given the higher risks combat poses in Warhammer (even your dead hard unit can, and will, be beaten by Gobbos with just a slight shift in luck!)

Clewz

04-01-2015, 11:51 AM

Looking forward to the idea of it becoming more of a skirmish game. The old realm of chaos books used to have that vibe with the eye of god campaigns. Not keen on the idea of a fantasy space marines game though. Fingers crossed they'll pull it back to a minute before midnight scenario

Must add the the base rumour is putting me off getting started yet

Trojan66

04-04-2015, 12:50 AM

Erik Setzer

04-04-2015, 06:36 AM

I too am warming to the idea of change. as much as anything, Simplifying the whole thing and bringing the size of the armies back down might just encourage gamers to actually paint their armies !
I was in warhammer world the other day and there were so few armies painted, let alone to a decent standard...lets hope. Mind you it doesn't seeem to work for 40k , most seem to get tipped out of a shoe box straight onto the table !

We did an End Times megabattle last weekend, and in order to encourage people to paint their armies, the manager made a special rule that everyone got Hatred against unpainted models (painting being three colors, no need for special basing or highlights, just a basic paint job).

With that incentive, one of the more powergaming Chaos players finished one of his units... but only halfway through one or two others (and those are tiny units). Neither Skaven player had a fully painted army (one had some painted, but they'd been painted for a while). The young Ogre player had a painted army, but he tries to paint everything as quick as possible (and kitbashes a lot too). Almost all of the painted Chaos was provided by one player who also had a lot of painted Elves and some painted Ogres, or the store manager (he lent the bad guys his Skaven and newly painted Bloodthirster). Empire player and Orc player were unpainted (though the Orcs had a painted Grimgor I finished two days before the battle). Dark Elf player was about half painted. And I had so many painted Undead that I could have summoned a second army.

Net result, the photos were not nearly as impressive as they should have been. Too much primer and bare plastic.

And I'm not sure 40K really requires that many fewer models, especially as the new formations-of-formations are pushing people to make bigger armies. And I see a similar issue with lack of painting in 40K.

I might be guilty of using unpainted armies at times, but only because I like changing what I'm playing a lot. I have fully painted armies for Space Marines, Chaos Marines, Orks (two armies, basically), Dark Eldar, Orcs & Goblins, Empire, Skaven, and combined Undead, though each has room to grow due to newer releases. (You can also guess at how much I can grow to hate painting at times. Imagine 6K of Undead in a month's time, or 5K or Orks in six weeks.)

Trojan66

04-04-2015, 07:24 AM

Always like to hear of gamers incentivising painting armies, especially in tournaments .
I love to see others peoples armies, it is the best way to get new ideas for basing etc.
I'm just starting a combined elven army ( yes on round bases ). It's great to pick all the cool stuff from the 3 armies then trying to work out colours and how they will look on the battlefield

Erik Setzer

04-04-2015, 07:46 AM

I was already wanting to do a High Elf army that was the opposite of bright colors and clean uniforms, they'd be muted colors and dirty, some blood here and there, looking like a "lost expedition" or something. With the combined Elf list, I can add my Wood Elves to the mix and some other stuff, paint them all like that, and have them represent some of the surviving Elves (right before everything died).

My basing with the Undead was pretty simple, just use Stirland Mud with a wash of Agrax Earthshade, Dryad Bark around the edges (matches the color of Stirland Mud), and then on the larger bases (cavaly, monsters, etc.), use some clear glue to apply random patches of static grass. Looks pretty desolate. For my Khorne Daemonkin (and this might be a small issue as I'll also have to figure out a way to work the Daemons into a larger Daemon army), I was thinking of trying to work streams and rivers of blood onto the bases, at least the larger ones. (Lava is cool and all, but come on, it's Khorne, it should be blood.)

I LOVE painting, and more than that, I love converting. I was just thinking yesterday of all the fun things I used to do converting stuff with cheap models people messed up and sold for tiny amounts, or picking up super cheap stuff at Wal-Mart to use for conversions. There was once this series of cheap action figures, not really impressive, but $1 each. My dad and I snagged some of them, and went crazy with the pieces from them. Some had Egytian stuff like a banner or weapon, so I've used those on some Egyptian themed Marines I'm doing (I finally have a good way to have a Dreadnought holding the weapon, too). Some of the wings got green stuffed onto some Chaos Marines for flying Possessed. There were a few skeletal beasts (that had the aforementioned wings), they were put on cavalry bases and covered with green stuff that left patches of skeleton showing and looked like it was torn off in places, made great Nurgle Spawn. It was maybe a $10 investment in parts, but went a long way. I need to make a trip to the nearby department stores again, raid the toy section.

Darren Richardson

04-05-2015, 03:56 PM

Cannons respect no-ones rank :p

Back during 4th and 5th edition, there was an article by Rick Priestley in White Dwarf talking about the "crazy" idea of using 50 Goblins in a unit, because such a huge unit would surely be a surprise to the enemy (if a bit unwieldy)! Now, it seems like 50 is the minimum for a unit of Goblins, and you see units that size all over the place.

I vaguely remember him writing about that.

4th Edition was the only version I ever played funny enough, but I always found that I could use cannons very effectively against big units of Orcs and Goblins quite well, after a few games you could with accuracy guess ranges, you just had to allow for fickle fate of course.... The dice gods had to be bribed many a time LOL

Needless to say, I was (still am) an Empire player (sometimes Dwarf), I never could win with Skaven or Undead becuase of the lack of cannons LOL.

Kirsten

04-06-2015, 12:51 PM

lack of cannons LOL.

cannon* :p

I was an expert with my great cannon at guessing ranges, the removal of guessing didn't alter much for me, I got it right pretty much every time anyway :p

Erik Setzer

04-06-2015, 01:18 PM

I love it when you had to guess ranges, especially in 40K. I could snipe with freaking Basilisks. Good times.

I think my favorite artillery story in WFB was in 4th edition when my dad was playing against my Orcs and Goblins using a combined Empire/Dwarf army with both armies' guns. Cannon after cannon misfired until the last one managed to land a shot, misfired for the bounce, and promptly rolled a 1, failing to wound the lone Goblin it hit. The only time I've seen similarly bad luck is, well, pretty much every time I run Skaven. (Two 500 point games in a row, my Warp Lightning Cannon blew up, and my Warlock Engineer miscast while cast Warp Lightning, rolled a 1 for the wounds, injured himself, and promptly forgot how to be a wizard. The first and only time I've used a warpfire thrower, it immediately blew up and took out half my Stormvermin.)

Makes me wonder what kind of stories 9th edition might bring.

silashand

04-06-2015, 10:54 PM

cannon* :p

I was an expert with my great cannon at guessing ranges, the removal of guessing didn't alter much for me, I got it right pretty much every time anyway :p

I used to love guess ranges with my Dwarf stone thrower w/rune of accuracy. I could almost always drop it right on the enemy's head. Killed many a big nasty with the D6 wounds, no AS hits over the years :). Of course, I probably killed myself more times than that by misfiring with the way I roll dice... :p

grimmas

04-07-2015, 12:17 PM

I don't know if this has been mentioned already but in Slayer Grimnir mentions that other worlds will be in need of their gods and as he was referring to himself it really seems like the new WFB setting may have some familiar names/faces.

Mr Mystery

04-07-2015, 12:34 PM

cannon* :p

I was an expert with my great cannon at guessing ranges, the removal of guessing didn't alter much for me, I got it right pretty much every time anyway :p

I think that's why they removed it. Any regular user of artillery soon got their eye in. And the introduction of six piece Realm of Battle boards made it even easier. Edge to edge is 24", and you'll know how far you deployed. Knock that off 24", and the rest is dead easy.

I've always found Cannon overrated anyway. If you're not fielding big monsters and that, they're largely wasted points!

Kirsten

04-07-2015, 01:51 PM

how dare you :p

my Nuln army would strongly disagree. nothing a bunch of great cannon, mortars, and hellblasters couldn't fix.

Erik Setzer

04-07-2015, 02:16 PM

how dare you :p

my Nuln army would strongly disagree. nothing a bunch of great cannon, mortars, and hellblasters couldn't fix.

Except that giant hole in the wall...

Kirsten

04-07-2015, 02:20 PM

of course they could. blow the whole wall up, then there is no longer a hole in it. simple.

Mr Mystery

04-07-2015, 02:38 PM

I prefer Mortars and Helblaster type weapons - got better flexibility overall.

Mortars in particular seem weedy, but anyone who has been on the receiving end of a solid hit when the dice gods were against them can testify they're anything but. Cheap too!

Kirsten

04-07-2015, 03:24 PM

once 9th drops I definitely need a new Empire army, may some shooty dwarf allies

Erik Setzer

04-07-2015, 07:00 PM

of course they could. blow the whole wall up, then there is no longer a hole in it. simple.

That's not exactly "fixing" it.

And I'm really glad doctors don't operate on that principle.

Mr Mystery

04-08-2015, 05:37 AM

eldargal

04-08-2015, 06:14 AM

I don't think it will be as radically different as people think, but I'm not sure what form it will take. If GW were struggling with the whole 'how can Lizardmen really be expected to regularly fight Wood Elves on the other side of the world' thing we might see some kind of restructuring to address those sorts of issues. No landlocked nations/races with everyone having access to boats for example. Might be a system where the cycle throws up an almost identical set of races and cultures but with different names attached.

40kGamer

04-08-2015, 07:08 AM

I really hope 9th comes out soon so I can actually start a WFB project. All the suspense of what we are going to get is killing me.

Kirsten

04-08-2015, 07:14 AM

That's not exactly "fixing" it.

And I'm really glad doctors don't operate on that principle.

yes it is, think outside the box. you wanted the hole gone, the hole is gone. can't blame my cannon for your lack of specifications.

grimmas

04-08-2015, 08:23 AM

You know....there's quite a few pootery games coming out based on the Warhammer World's IP as we currently know it.

Anyone else feel that we're not going to see as major a shake up as some predict background wise?

I for one am far from convinced about the warrior space monk type rumour - it just doesn't strike me as Warhammer at all....

I'm begin to feel that may be the case, let's face it they have spent all that monney making plastic minatures for all the races I just can't see them ditching them all.

The World was destroyed at the end of Archaon but I'm beginning to think the "miracle" that occurs may produce something quite familiar but more supportive of the game.

Space Warrior monks in armour sound a bit silly especially as we already have 40K and HH stuff, but what do I know we did get Space Marines inside Space Marines in the most recent codex

Erik Setzer

04-08-2015, 09:18 AM

I was just saying to someone on Saturday how weird it is that by the time Vermintide came out, that world wouldn't exist any more. Ditto for Mordheim, and Warhammer: Total War. That would be kind of odd.

I've also said in the past that I would more likely have expected them to just rebuild the world or reshape it somehow in such a way that it no longer resembles Earth (with factions being set to resemble the Earth location counterpart). That would make sense to me and be a lot more interesting than Outlandhammer. Though it was still easy enough to explain people fighting each other, certainly as easy as 40K (where some races, like Tau and Tyranids, tend to be more of a local issue, as are most Space Marine chapters, and they've had to make the Necrons a galaxy-spanning empire to explain why they're all over the place despite losing a war with another galaxy-wide race). You can't just throw everyone into the same neighborhood. At some point, people have to travel to fight, and there's plenty of reason for them to travel. In WFB, that could be anything from hunting magical items to getting revenge for an old grudge. Battles aren't always territorial disputes, especially if you have skirmish-level battles.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh yeah, and Space Marines in WFB would just be jumping the shark at this point...

Mr Mystery

04-08-2015, 09:25 AM

Things I think we can discount, rumour wise...

1. Bubblehammer. Absolutely nothing to suggest this is coming. Appears to have been a misunderstanding of what happened to the Lizardmen (bubbles of shielded protecty goodness)

2. Armies being ditched wholesale. Bretonnia, Beast of Chaos and Ogres didn't really play major roles in End Times. They had their representatives like, but weren't entirely central to the plot (and wtf happened to Gilles??)

3. New army. Just.....doesn't sit right. More of a gut thing really!

And you know, that portal that knacked the world? Strikes me as more of a portal through rather than to the Realm of Chaos....and if that's right (again, gut feeling!) it's got to lead somewhere. Like a whole new world ripe for mucking about with and that.

It's not at all clear who grabbed what at the end. Seems to be a human - not a given that it was Sigmar-Franz. Could have been Archaon (after all, he went Chaosy because he reckoned Sigmar wasn't real....yeah. Bit of a revelation for him on that count).....

Very, very interested to see what happens. And yes, Slayer does very much suggest knew the Gods (good ones at least) knew there would be a world after this one.

eldargal

04-08-2015, 09:44 AM

Yup I wouldn't be surprised if the stuff which engulfed the world and apparently destroyed it actually didn't. I had a theory that it sucks people through the warp and scatters them through time, so alarielle ends up being the first Everqueen long before there were Phoenix Kings and Tyrion becomes Aenarion or someone, and whatever. Or they get thrown into different times on a similarly developed cycle and start influencing the new cultures.

Mr Mystery

04-08-2015, 09:47 AM

That could work. Wibbly-warpy, timey-wimey and that.

Kirsten

04-09-2015, 04:40 AM

stop posting End Times spoilers in the rumour thread.

I am very curious now to see what they will do, these rumours are not going away, and nothing else is being put forward as an alternative. it is going to be a long few months.

Trojan66

04-09-2015, 12:13 PM

Mr Mystery

04-09-2015, 12:30 PM

Read between the lines....

K.

You're predictions started off an insider info. Now they're 'predictions'.

Sorry, but I'll discount everything you say.

Erik Setzer

04-09-2015, 12:32 PM

I'm not going to hammer on again about my predictions, I am sure you have all read it and either agreed or disagreed. However, have you guys not popped into your independent stockist lately ? I have a great local chap, very chatty and he has been told by GW to reduce to clear all dark elf, ogre , lizardmen and all skaven regiment boxs. It's a great time to get cheap warhammer but read between the lines...check it out yourself

Only way I'd believe that with Skaven is if they were doing a new aesthetic. They just did the new Verminlords, Thanquol, and Stormfiends. Can't be cheap setting up those kits, and throwing them into an "archive" already doesn't seem like a good idea.

I could see them redoing the aesthetic of Skaven and Lizardmen into more of a "starfaring" race, as the Lizardmen escaped in their ships (and likely have access to a lot of good gear again), and the Skaven jumped worlds.

The Dark Elves... Possible. They did do some new kits, but frankly, most of their regiments ended up becoming "evil" copies of the High Elves, with the Executioners even replacing their axes with swords to be evil Swordmasters. Not much need for all the duplicate units among the Elves.