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  1. #1
    Librarian
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    Default Poisoned attacks

    Now I just recently got my Tyranid codex, and I was thumbing through it when I noticed that Carnifexes can take Toxin Sacs, which confer the "poisoned (4+)" rule on their CC attacks. Now perhaps I am being dense here, but Carnifexes have Str 9, which means that against just about everything in the game, they will wound on 2+, so wouldn't taking toxin sacs be paying to nerf the 'fex?

    If the poisoned rule said that they wound on X+ unless the comparison of strength and toughness would be better, then I could (maybe) see taking them (particularly with the additional component of poisoned allowing you to re-roll failed wounds if your Str is greater than the target's toughness). But otherwise how on earth is this a viable option?

    Also, if one happened to have a 'fex with toxin sacs already, do you think WYSIWYG would demand that it be given the upgrade?
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  2. #2

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    It's a downgrade unless you're fighting T8 and up, in which case it's an upgrade. Not one you'd want to take very often, admittedly, but not useless in 100% of cases.

  3. #3
    Scout
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    Default

    If the to wound role is better than the poisoned attack the better one applies. Also under the rule for poisoned attacks states that is the toughness is equal or less you get to re-roll failed rolls to wound.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by kdetro View Post
    If the to wound role is better than the poisoned attack the better one applies.
    While a perfectly sensible way to play, that's not actually true. Do you have a rules quote to back that up?
    Quote Originally Posted by kdetro View Post
    Also under the rule for poisoned attacks states that is the toughness is equal or less you get to re-roll failed rolls to wound.
    That is true, which is why a carnifex with toxin sacs has better odds of wounding a T8 or T9 model than a carnifex without (and of course against T10 models, wounding on a 4+ because of poison is better than wounding on a 5+ because of Strength-Toughness comparisons).

  5. #5
    Brother-Captain
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    Default

    Are there any 40k models with a toughness higher than 8? I think the highest in non-apocalypse 40k is T8 (the Necron C'tan).

    Hierophants are T9 I think, and probably some other Apoc models as well.

    Toxin Sacs on a Carnifex is probably one of the more useless upgrades in the game, just ahead of all the wargear that doesn't function at all anymore

  6. #6

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    While on the one hand I agree with you, Lerra, on the other hand I think it's nice that they've included upgrades in the codex that can allow carnifexes to take on the biggest, nastiest stuff in the game.

  7. #7
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    Default

    The rule in the rulebook for poisoned weapons, pg. 42, says that if the strength of the wielder is equal to or higher than the toughness of the target, the attacker must re-roll all failed to wound rolls.

    My guess is that the poison sacks on a carnifex makes it re-roll failed to-wound rolls.

  8. #8
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    Default

    Hmm adrenal glands are better I guess, cus on the charge u are strength 10, and I4

  9. #9
    Librarian
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Commissar Lewis View Post
    The rule in the rulebook for poisoned weapons, pg. 42, says that if the strength of the wielder is equal to or higher than the toughness of the target, the attacker must re-roll all failed to wound rolls.

    My guess is that the poison sacks on a carnifex makes it re-roll failed to-wound rolls.
    The strength of the carnifex is only taken into account with regards to that re-roll. Other than that is becomes redundant. It will wound on a 4+, no greater, no less.

    Quote Originally Posted by Just_Me View Post
    If the poisoned rule said that they wound on X+ unless the comparison of strength and toughness would be better, then I could (maybe) see taking them (particularly with the additional component of poisoned allowing you to re-roll failed wounds if your Str is greater than the target's toughness). But otherwise how on earth is this a viable option?

    Also, if one happened to have a 'fex with toxin sacs already, do you think WYSIWYG would demand that it be given the upgrade?
    I totally agree that a comparative rule should be used but unfortunately it's not. It's a pointless upgrade for a monstrous creature.
    My son, ask for thyself another Kingdom, for that which I leave is too small for thee.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by david5th View Post
    I totally agree that a comparative rule should be used but unfortunately it's not. It's a pointless upgrade for a monstrous creature.
    That's not entirely true. If you are using your monstrous creature solely to hunt other monstrous creatures then toxin sacs make everything that is S6 better. However, the carnifex only gets a boost against T8 in the normal game, so yeah, its a downgrade.

    Oh, toxin sacs also make S6 MC's better against bikes, aside from eldar bikes, of course.
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