Tyranids assaulting anything in cover

[Lupin]

A friend of mine started playing nids and hes very confused about the lack of effectiveness of his troops when assaulting anything that is in cover falling to ini 1. Move through cover but no grenades... how weird...

if you have ideas for helping him get the most out of his troops...he's having a hard time getting his point back... i dont know much the nids codex but any flamer type of gun or frag grenades or combo or anything?

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you!

[DarkLink]

The lack of frag grenades seems to be an entirely intentional change on GW's part, intended to maintain game balance. Frankly, it makes sense to me. Fluff-wise, what's the point in setting up defensive gunlines if the enemy horde just completely ignores them. Having cover slow down 'nidz fits thematically, as it is only desperate defense the defenders use to try and hold back the horde for that much longer.

There are virtually no units with frag grenades, or to be more precise no units that can get offensive grenades.

There are only one or two flamer templates in the codex, including one on certain gaunt squads. I can't really relate to its effectiveness, as flamers on footslogging squads are not generally particularly effective. It's very difficult to get a footslogging squad into position to get good template coverage, minimizing the effectiveness of the weapon.

Your friend should probably try out some of the units that allow you to disrupt his opponent's deployments. Outflanking genestealers, deepstriking carnifexes, burrowing trygon/mawlocs, etc. One or two of those units might be able to mess with his opponent's plans enough to let him overwhelm his opponent.

[therealjohnny5]

There are only one or two flamer templates in the codex, including one on certain gaunt squads. I can't really relate to its effectiveness, as flamers on footslogging squads are not generally particularly effective. It's very difficult to get a footslogging squad into position to get good template coverage, minimizing the effectiveness of the weapon.

*cough*....*look over here*....drop pods, er...well, um....Mycetic spores....

[Unlighted]

Tyranid troops do have a tough time assaulting into cover.

If you're trying to use the basic type of gaunt then you're going to have to have some support.

One good support would be to have a Hive Tyrant use Paroxysm to reduce the enemy weapon skill to 1. After that even humble gaunts have the better weapon skill greatly lowering their losses from the enemy striking first. Genestealers wouldn't benefit as much from this, but it will be great for gaunts of any sort.

Another good support would be to have a Tervigon use Catalyst to give Feel No Pain to the troops assaulting into cover. If they enemy has lots of power weapons this won't be effective, but if they only have basic weapons then this will help keep the troops alive to strike back.

If your friend wanted to go for a more expensive troop he could use Warriors with bonesword and Lashwhip. The Lashwhip makes the enemy Initiative 1 while the Bonesword is a power weapon with a chance at Instant Death to any target with multiple wounds.

Hope he has some better luck.

[Nabterayl]

One good support would be to have a Hive Tyrant use Paroxysm to reduce the enemy weapon skill to 1. After that even humble gaunts have the better weapon skill greatly lowering their losses from the enemy striking first. Genestealers wouldn't benefit as much from this, but it will be great for gaunts of any sort.

I dunno ... getting hit on 5's sounds pretty good to me for just about any unit.

[Ferro]

Carnifexes can have frag grenades, and up to I4 on the charge. Lictors and Deathleaper have frag grenades.

There are a couple of pinning/blast weapons in the codex. If you can manage to pin an enemy squad, then when you assault that squad you do not have to reduce your Init. down to one. Admittedly, this combo has about a 4% chance of working for you in the field, but theoretically, it is possible.

[Ghoulio]

The lack of frag grenades seems to be an entirely intentional change on GW's part, intended to maintain game balance. Frankly, it makes sense to me. Fluff-wise, what's the point in setting up defensive gunlines if the enemy horde just completely ignores them. Having cover slow down 'nidz fits thematically, as it is only desperate defense the defenders use to try and hold back the horde for that much longer.

The only problem with this literally every single other army in the game can get assault grenades (other then Tau I think, but they aren't an assault army). Even orks can get them (even though there really isnt much benefit). I can understand "fluff" reasons, but I can't understand game balance reasons. I just do not understand why genestealers don't get them. Sure, gaunts I could see since you are supposed to have so many of them, but stealers? Really? This combined with the sheer volume of WS 3 units in the codex make breaking enemy lines in cover challenging. My only hope is that armies that come after nids will follow this, but I can't really see it as blood angels are next.

I dont know how big of a deal this is going to end up being, as the only things so far with this book that I have actually assaulted into cover is with my deathleaper, so it didnt matter. Hopefully it won't be that big of a deal.

As far as how to deal with it, my only suggestions would be either paroxyms-ing a unit before you assault (if you can) or try to hit sunk in units on multiple fronts. Other then that don't assault with small units of gaunts

[AbusePuppy]

A pure-assault Tyranid army is going to struggle against enemies in cover, it's true. Some options include:

-Initiate the assault with an MC or other critter that is tough enough to survive the initial round of attacks. Oh noes, all those Guardsmen got to attack your Trygon first! Be careful of Power Fists, though.

-Lash Whips. They work like old frag grenades (you both strike at the same time), which is better than nothing. Remember, the defender must get as many models into base-to-base with his Defenders React move as possible.

-Use one of our few units with grenades to hit them first. Carnifexes can buy them, Lictors start with them, Harpies get an upgraded version.

-A Mawloc can push them right out of cover if you manage to score a hit, and can fall back on the first suggestion if that fails. It's almost sorta like having your own Lash of Submission!

-Make him get the hell out of cover to claim objectives. Place your objectives out in the open, away from cover where possible. Does he want to keep his guys alive or win the game? Force him to make that choice.

-Paroxysm. It's already been mentioned, but WS1 is pretty crippling. Combine with any of the above tactics for a combat that's practically guaranteed to go your way.


Armies with more shooting should have less of an issue with units in cover, as our weapons generally rely on volume of shots, not high AP. If you have a hybrid shooty/bitey army, just make sure you can put some Devourer or Deathspitter fire onto a target to force a morale check.

[Tynskel]

Maybe I am odd, but I never used the Frags n' 4th edition. I just charged so many guys in that they couldn't do anything about it. With Pyroxysm, my army get tons of a lot better. Also that Carnifex is Bad @$$. Love 'em to death- I4, re-roll to hit, 5 attacks, St10 and a Plasma Cannon!

[Mobious]

Tyranids dealing with cover? Well lets say you have a Genestealer heavy force, then you make sure to pack units like Ravenors that you can use to get to the enemy quickly, lock them up and then assault with the Stealers at normal initiative. This also stops the enemy from allocating attacks to the Stealers by the way.