BoLS Lounge : Wargames, Warhammer & Miniatures Forum
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 38
  1. #11
    Brother-Captain
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    1,392

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetsugaku View Post
    Covered in Scars - which I'm reading now. I know this thread has spoiler tags so.... Don't read any further.

    Horus sent Jaghatai Khan and all his chums to the other side of the galaxy so that Khan couldn't attend Nikea. If he spoke, along with Magnus and Sanguinius, in support of the Librarius, there was a greater chance the Emperor would allow them to continue and be a significant weapon in the upcoming war. The traitor legions of course never gave up their psychic space marines.

    The Khan is out of contact behind another mahoosive warp storm for two+ years, when he finds his way out, he has no idea who to trust, in fact the legion is split to a degree along original Terran, native Chogoris lines and there's significant influence from Horus and the lodges amongst the troops.
    Your timeline here is incorrect. You forget that the Emperor presided over Nikea whilst he was still in personal command of the Great Crusade. The main accuser against the Thousand Sons was Othere Wyrdmake of the Space Wolves -- who had spent a lengthy time fighting alongside the Thousand Sons and was considered to be (before Nikea) a friend of Ahriman's. The Council did, however, take place shortly after the Emperor had punished and shamed the Word Bearers for their sins of worship via the destruction of Monarchia.

    Horus was not yet warmaster and the reason the Khan was not present is never fully discussed, but he did send his most trusted emissary and councilor, Targutai Yesugei to speak in his place. While I do believe that Magnus mentions in passing that he had wished the White Scars' lord had been present, little would have changed. It was quite clear from the outset of the Council that the Emperor was set upon a course that would, at the least, warn Magnus and chastise him from wantonly using his psykic powers or those of his sons.

    The Khan, by his very nature, was always on the edge of space and always pushing the boundaries. By the time of the Heresy and the Istvaan Massacre, the Khan had indeed been out of contact for many years -- but that was decades after the council of Nikea.
    http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?52423-The-Blood-Pact-Chaos-Homebrew-Supplement&p=472214&viewfull=1#post472214

  2. #12

    Default

    Frequently incoherent, this is the problem with multiple authors! I'm near certain, 90% anyway that Nikea is after Ullanor and that's when the warm star was promoted. Horus had command of the legions and sent the awkward ones on long errands.

    Happy to be proved wrong tho, have you a timeline you are referring to?

    (As a side note of googling this I have discovered the council of Nicea, which I presume was part inspiration for those IP thieving buggers in BL)

  3. #13

    Default

    Frequently incoherent, this is the problem with multiple authors!


    [url]http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DependingOnTheWriter[/url]
    Last edited by YorkNecromancer; 05-23-2014 at 03:25 PM.
    AUT TACE AUT LOQUERE MELIORA SILENTIO

  4. #14

    Default

    So right about the Emperor inconsistancies in the different books, and his so poor parental behaviour.

    Angron is another example. Every other Primarchs had friends/teachers/advisors/fellow warriors/etc. surviving the events before the imperial recovery, and much of those who could allowed to join the legion (that said, for the better or the worse, the latter of course mostly for the easily influenced Lorgar). For Angron, the Emperor teleports the Primarch alone and let all his companions die. Good job Boss ! Such a good way to begin a nice and stable disturbed-due-to-alien-tech-child/father relationship !

    It's so in the GRIMDARK that Games Workshop wants for its universe. In a more logical universe, it would be just fully impossible that a being with such an immense intelligence, godille skills and a knowledge resulting of 30 milleniums of existence could possibly be such an awful father (and psychiatrist/psychologists too…by the way, a friend of mine pointed out recently that much of the problems leading to the Heresy would have been so easily solved with a good therapy).
    Last edited by Benjamin Blanchard; 05-23-2014 at 04:21 PM.

  5. #15

    Default

    I imagine that Curze's apotheosis is going to read like Rorschach's therapy scene in Watchmen, in that he'll have sacrificed so much, and will be so far gone that there will be nothing left for him but to ascend, likely as a galactic practical joke on the part of the Octed.

    Also, you should check out the cover art for Mortarion's Heart.[URL="http://www.talkwargaming.com/2014/02/black-library-review-mortarions-heart.html"]http://www.talkwargaming.com/2014/02/black-library-review-mortarions-heart.html[/URL]

  6. #16
    Chapter-Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Undertaking private security operations somewhere in the Human Sphere
    Posts
    5,884

    Default

    that highlighted bit made a good point. hes not a father he is an emperor, sure the primarchs have a genetic lineage to him but they are most definitely there to do what he says.
    Morbid Angels:http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?7100-Morbid-angel-WIP
    I probably come across as a bit of an ***, don't worry I just cannot abide stupid.

  7. #17
    Brother-Captain
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    1,058

    Default

    Yeah, maybe if he'd NOT played the half-arsed dad then things would have turned out better.
    Wolfman of the Horsepack of Derailment
    The artist formerly known as "WTF you can't say that!"

  8. #18

    Default

    It's pretty straightforward to me. Konrad and Angron are the two most immediately lethal Primarchs. If you want the Warmaster executed and you don't have Russ available, they're your next best choices. Both are already known to have traded some very serious blows with their brothers and came out on top.

    Angron especially is going to be one of the first choices, because a war against a rebelling legion is not going to leave either side in a good state. It makes sense to send the most self-destructive, unstoppable force you have available into that.

    -----

    You forget that the Emperor presided over Nikea whilst he was still in personal command of the Great Crusade. The main accuser against the Thousand Sons was Othere Wyrdmake of the Space Wolves -- who had spent a lengthy time fighting alongside the Thousand Sons and was considered to be (before Nikea) a friend of Ahriman's.

    Horus was not yet warmaster and the reason the Khan was not present is never fully discussed, but he did send his most trusted emissary and councilor, Targutai Yesugei to speak in his place.
    Nikea was after Ullanor. Horus was Warmaster by that point. I would guess that part of the reason the Emperor decided to act as Magnus' judge is that he himself is a psyker, while Horus is not, so his authority is more relevant.

  9. #19
    Brother-Captain
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    1,392

    Default

    I guess I should post this again...

    POSSIBLE SPOILER WARNING

    You guys need to read "Mechanicus," then "First Heretic" and then "The Outcast Dead." Now time for wall-of-text and my chance to give you my full theory considering what facts we know.

    The Emperor is - we can all agree - a singular being. There has never been a more powerful individual in entire universe (I don't consider the Tyranid Hive Mind to be an individual, but a gestalt consciousness and therefore on the same level as the Chaos Gods) and can be imagined as a man standing with a foot in both the material world and the immaterium. Due to his vast power and foresight, the Emperor traveled the length and breadth of time, seeing innumerable outcomes for Humanity (the last chapter of "Fear To Tread" is a perfect example of where a psykic with foresight sees varied outcomes of the future, also see the Eldar books). It was in the course of these ethereal travels that the Emperor saw that there was a slim path by which Humanity might be able to reach a point of apotheosis; to harness the powers of the Empyrean without fear of corruption from the Chaos Gods -- or at least at greatly reduced risk from them. Once he had determined this path he then set about making it a reality.

    As it says throughout different points of the HH series, hints here and there, the Emperor created seeds within the socio-psychology of the human race. He created thousands upon thousands of myths and religious whispers that would one-day bear fruit and allow Him to step into the picture and claim suzerainty over all Mankind by self-fulfilling prophecy (pretty damned clever imho).

    Once the Emperor took power over all of Terra (finally) and began the Great Crusade, he was prepared for the next step of his plan: galactic domination and the first step in eradicating Chaos.

    Because the Emperor knew that Chaos was the primary foe against which Humanity must win, he set about cutting the Chaos Gods off from their main source of power: faith. The Warp is a reflection of reality and is fueled by the emotions of living beings in reality -- and the Chaos Gods feed upon those emotions, but even more so they feed upon the praise and worship that is offered them. By creating a galactic-wide Human empire that is ruled by secular thought and non-spiritual belief (with a strong undercurrent of faith changing to being put into the Emperor), the Emperor was -- in essence -- turning off a spout of water that the Chaos Gods required for sustenance. If he could manage to destroy the last vestiges of religion (many of which were twisted to worshiping Chaos in its varied forms) then that would be the great first step to fully defeating Chaos.

    But the Emperor, beloved by all, failed in one thing: he underestimated the frailty of his greatest creations - the primarchs.

    As I said before, the Emperor is a singular being -- none are as He is. In His mastery the Emperor forged 20 sons, beings unlike any other, but as close to the power of the Emperor as any other living being could become. They were to be his generals and crusade leaders, the exemplar of all the power and virtues of the Adeptus Astartes that were the gene-sons of their primarchs. It was his greatest and proudest moment of creation, when he bore the primarchs into existence. It was that -- pride and a mix of faith in his sons -- that was His downfall. Because the Emperor believed in his sons and thought them so far removed from the petty emotions that undermine the Human soul, he underestimated their fragility. Horus was not brought low by a promise of power or majesty; he was brought low by envy and a sense of abandonment.

    In His effort to bring about an ascended Humanity, the Emperor put upon himself the burden of sole guardianship of that task -- only ever giving responsibility for lesser tasks to others when he felt it was necessary to concentrate on other, more important things (such as when he created the Order of the Dragon to keep the Void Dragon locked up on Mars; or made Horus the Warmaster to continue the Great Crusade). He was not able to relinquish the sense of responsibility that he felt in regard to guiding Humanity upon His chosen path.

    This focus the Emperor had upon the chosen path for Humanity meant that he would miss various things and that Chaos would do everything in its power to oppose this plan. It is only with daemonic intervention and twisting of truth and lies that the primarchs are scattered in the first place (Ingethel manipulates the Word Bearers and preys upon their loss of faith in the Emperor -- and is capable of placing Argel Tal in a position where he can physically affect what was one of the most well protected locations in the galaxy, the gene-vault where the primarchs were forged and watched over by the Emperor himself).

    And so the Emperor failed to fully understand his greatest creations (his sons), failed to fully educate them in the true threat of Chaos, and failed to share the burden of Humanity's path with any other. These combined to change the course of history and led to his placement upon the Golden Throne -- forcing Him to skip step two of his plan and onto step three: the creation of a religion based solely upon the God-Emperor that would find no opposition in a galaxy that had been cleansed of other religions. By being placed upon the Golden Throne, the Emperor ascended his mind and stepped fully into the Empyrean (no longer a man with two feet in two different places), taking on the responsibility of being a god-head figure and gaining the power from faith in the same manner that the Chaos Gods do.

    Where it will lead from there? That's anyone's guess...
    Considering all this, it's only natural that the Emperor would have a blind-spot in regards to his warriors. He expected so much of them and knew -- genetically -- that they were capable. The problem is that a living being is more than the sum parts of his genetic makeup.
    http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?52423-The-Blood-Pact-Chaos-Homebrew-Supplement&p=472214&viewfull=1#post472214

  10. #20
    Brother-Captain
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    1,392

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by joosterandom View Post
    Nikea was after Ullanor. Horus was Warmaster by that point. I would guess that part of the reason the Emperor decided to act as Magnus' judge is that he himself is a psyker, while Horus is not, so his authority is more relevant.
    You're right. I forgot now that there is a small confrontation between Magnus and Mortarion at the Ullanor Triumph and Mortarion makes a snide remark about things being brought to the Emperor's attention. Nikea must have happened mere weeks or months after Ullanor. So the Emperor was no longer leading the Crusade, but neither was he returned to Terra.
    http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?52423-The-Blood-Pact-Chaos-Homebrew-Supplement&p=472214&viewfull=1#post472214

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •