Ninja Tau in 6th - 1500 Points

[Aegwymourn]

you forgot that BSF's can also negate the shrouded and stealth aspects of night fighting.

"ignores the effects of night fighting".

So do you want to save five points, or do you want to deny shrouded and stealth? I know how valuable blacksun filters are on Tau units, and in 6th they're worth every point. Keep in mind; I learned how to play 40k with Tau, and nightfighting was part of that learning process. So if I say take them, take them. they will be some of the best points you spend for tetras.

As I pointed out in my last two posts for the markerlight shots (which is the defining shooting the Tetra does) there are no saves ergo shrouding and stealth provide no benefit to the unit being shot by the Tetra. The process of shooting makerlights goes, roll to hit, count hits, place markerlight tokens. At no point does your opponent roll armour/cover/invulnerable saves so having the BSF on the Tetra only would provide benefit to the twin-linked pulse rifle, which very rarely makes any significant impact on the game. I don't see why there is any confusion regarding this.

[Tauownz]

Listen to what Aegwymourn says. You don't need a black sun filter to shoot a markerlight on a tetra as they can see and shoot 36" at night and there are no saves against markerlights either. The only items you need on a tetras are targeting array and a target lock if you're fielding more than 1 in a squad. It also has a built in disruption pod at no add'nl cost. I would recommend a bsf on hammerheads and broadsides. Also remember markerlight hits remove night fight as well as up BS and remove cover, so something without a bsf can now hit something across the board if that markerlight token is used. Example say you get 3 hits with a tetra, 1 can go to up BS, 1 can go to remove 1 point of cover, and the third can go towards removing night fight all together.

[Uncle Nutsy]

No, Aegwymourn, it always goes: roll to-hit into roll for cover/armour/invulnerable. It's always been that way and in 6th hasn't changed that one iota. I dunno where you've been playing that's bucked that sequence of events, but it's wrong. You roll for saves for every weapon in the game, cover, invulnerable, armour... why would it be different for markerlights? Look at the sequence of events (page 18, "REGARDLESS of what's firing at them", page 427). All that's happening with a tag is the to-wound part is skipped. Fact is, the opponent will try and roll stealth/shrouded saves when hit with a markerlight tag.

tauownz: There is no "nightfight removal" with a markerlight anymore. The updated FAQ reads: "A model equipped with a blacksun filter has the Night Vision special rule." What's Night Vision say? "ignores the effects of Night Fighting". IGNORES it. Acts as if it does not exist.

[Aegwymourn]

No, Aegwymourn, it always goes: roll to-hit into roll for cover/armour/invulnerable. It's always been that way and in 6th hasn't changed that one iota. I dunno where you've been playing that's bucked that sequence of events, but it's wrong. You roll for saves for every weapon in the game, cover, invulnerable, armour... why would it be different for markerlights? Look at the sequence of events (page 18, "REGARDLESS of what's firing at them", page 427). All that's happening with a tag is the to-wound part is skipped. Fact is, the opponent will try and roll stealth/shrouded saves when hit with a markerlight tag.

tauownz: There is no "nightfight removal" with a markerlight anymore. The updated FAQ reads: "A model equipped with a blacksun filter has the Night Vision special rule." What's Night Vision say? "ignores the effects of Night Fighting". IGNORES it. Acts as if it does not exist.

Really, have you never read the actual rules for how to place a markerlight. "Each time you hit a target unit with a markerlight, put a couter by that unit." pg. 29. You do not follow the standard rules for resolving markerlights because it has its own special rules (like quite a few weapons in the game). Tauownz was pointing out that the fourth bullet point reads "To allow the firing unit to ignore the effects of the Night Fighting rule when shooting at the marked target" when you are spending markerlights.

Furthermore since you do not follow the normal progression for shooting you never get to the wound step (since it has a strength of N/A furthermore pointing out that you do not follow standard rules) ,which you oddly forgot in your example (you also forgot allocation of wounds), ergo you cannot follow up to the saving throw step.

If your opponent got saves versus markerlights what would the point be? You would need an incredible amount of shots to produce any kind of benefit. The cost of such would always be higher than the benefit.

OH and your comment that first this is the army you learned to play with and that I must play somewhere strange are both somewhat insulting. I have been playing since 2nd Edition at a number of GW (tinley park mall, and downer's grove battle bunker in IL) and a number of different LGS. I have made cogent and descriptive arguments if you don't like them you have to actually refute them. Instead you keep trying the name calling game.

[Zeshin]

Regular shooting attack: Roll to hit, Roll to wound, Roll to save against wounds, remove casualties.
Marker light shooting attack: Roll to Hit, apply tokens for every hit. No wounds are rolled therefore there are no wounds to save.

Seems pretty straight forward.