6th ed. Transports, part two

[Taco_Deluxe]

Problem is if you make them riskier to use, then people will just stop using. Its a difficult balance, and "realism" should have nothing to do with making a balanced rule set in the far future with lasers, space elves, and magic. It should just come down to two things, is it fun and is it fair.

[gredert]

Anyone who played in 3rd (maybe earlier, but that is when I started) remembers the old chartS foundly. A chart for glanced, lots of stunned/shaken, chance of weapon destroyed or immobilized, and on a 6 what we call wrecked now. Then you had the pen chart, basically what it is now except both 5 and 6 are wrecks. Then it gets interesting, the almighty Ordenance chart, again like now but the 6 blows the tank to smitereens and all embarked troops are killed. The look on the face of my friend the first time it happened and he watched his wolf lord and termy retinue go up with his landraider was priceless. I truly believe that while this system is slightly more clunky, it is not so hard to understand that we couldnt still be using it and be solving some of the problems we face now.

[bobdole4]

It would make more sense that you get an auto wound and still get a save. Of course this would severely impact high save models over say Space Marines.

[Ironwolf]

I don't have any problems with the tank/transports this is a sci-fi game if you want flat infantry spam there is always WHFB. On a side not id like to see a game wide vehicle upgrade chart like the magic items list from fantasy it levels the playing field for older/newer codexes and could also cut back on AT weapon spam like melta if ceramite plating wear more available(for a price).

[herpguy]

Well I do think that it doesn't make sense that the crew survives, but that would add just too much risk to transporting troops in my opinion. I do think it should be less forgiving though. I don't guess that when a vehicle explodes in a giant fireball the troops caught in the blast suffer a hit from the equivalent of an IG flashlight!

[Ebon Hand]

Sometimes I do miss the awesomeness factor of the ordnance vehicle pen chart. The thing is that now since blasts scatter instead of rolling to hit, they are more accurate and it would lead to a lot of angry players losing said Wolf Lord Termy squads in Land Raiders.

[Drunkencorgimaster]

Too often people forget that the game is an abstraction and try to devise new rules or fixes to rules that make more 'logical sense' from a real-world perspective.

Well of course it is an abstraction. In the end it is just a game involving a bunch of pieces of plastic on a table right? Nonetheless it is supposed to be representative of a certain type of reality (a pretty bizarre one admittedly) so at some point everyone has to mentally draw a line at what works for their imagination and what does not. This obviously has to be balanced with playability. For example, the ranges of the 40k weapons are absurdly short but this fact aids playabilty.

If you look at the comments on this thread, I'd say most of the people posting think that with regards to the vehicle damage table, the playabilty factor has been pushed too far to the detriment of the imagination factor.

For the record I tend to play(badly) a heavy mech list and I also think the rules could use amending. I'm not sure I like the idea of a twentyl-ton armored personnel carrier blowing apart so spectaculalry that there is effectively nothing of it left and yet 7 or 8 of its passangers are standing at the bottom of crater in their great coats looking around and thinking "Hmmm, close call." That scenario seems more akin to a Roadrunner Cartoon than to the 40k world I like to imagine.

I could see making termies imune to these explosions and giving power armor very favorable resistance but regular humans, elves, tau, and orcs in softer armor should never walk away from such an event in my humble opinion.

Yes, everyone draws their line in a different place but there is a line.

[gredert]

Sometimes I do miss the awesomeness factor of the ordnance vehicle pen chart. The thing is that now since blasts scatter instead of rolling to hit, they are more accurate and it would lead to a lot of angry players losing said Wolf Lord Termy squads in Land Raiders.

I accept you have a different opinion, but I do argue it. I put Pask in a demolisher and if it was a BS roll and not a scatter, it would be more likely to hit and then cause the ord chart pen. The scatter means I got a 2/3rd chance to scatter off so that the hole is off the tank which is all it takes to stop any chance of a pen on things like LRs.

[robrodgers46]

I actually agree that it is ridiculous that you can blow up a transport and the passengers come out unscathed. Two ideas come to mind:

1) No pinning test, just pinned.
2) No lead test, run like hell in a random direction, to get away from the explosion.

Or some combination of both?

R

[Kawauso]

Well of course it is an abstraction. In the end it is just a game involving a bunch of pieces of plastic on a table right? Nonetheless it is supposed to be representative of a certain type of reality (a pretty bizarre one admittedly) so at some point everyone has to mentally draw a line at what works for their imagination and what does not. This obviously has to be balanced with playability. For example, the ranges of the 40k weapons are absurdly short but this fact aids playabilty.

If you look at the comments on this thread, I'd say most of the people posting think that with regards to the vehicle damage table, the playabilty factor has been pushed too far to the detriment of the imagination factor.

For the record I tend to play(badly) a heavy mech list and I also think the rules could use amending. I'm not sure I like the idea of a twentyl-ton armored personnel carrier blowing apart so spectaculalry that there is effectively nothing of it left and yet 7 or 8 of its passangers are standing at the bottom of crater in their great coats looking around and thinking "Hmmm, close call." That scenario seems more akin to a Roadrunner Cartoon than to the 40k world I like to imagine.

I could see making termies imune to these explosions and giving power armor very favorable resistance but regular humans, elves, tau, and orcs in softer armor should never walk away from such an event in my humble opinion.

Yes, everyone draws their line in a different place but there is a line.

Of course it's odd that troops get away relatively unscathed from such an event.

The alternative, however, would make transports so much of a liability from a gameplay perspective that it would become really hard to justify using them. The risk of losing an entire unit would not be worth it in a lot of cases.

By the by, your icon and username have always been a source of great amusement for me. I want a corgi.