Wolves First Take

[EmperorEternalXIX]

I'd be inclined to agree but it's a foolish sentiment. "We deserve this." So just because my book gets updated first, it's supposed to suck?

There are some people whose armies are out of date but who are perfectly menacing just the same; some would argue that 5th Ed has been very kind to armies like the Nids or the Dark Eldar.

I think that, fanboyism aside, the cheese factor will be obvious when every power armored army at your LGS is proxying to be the wolves, and there are all of a sudden 50 Space Wolves armies in your neighborhood overnight.

I don't think the logic of a long wait has any relevance. The length of time you have to wait for your codex does not mean it should be more powerful. I agree that this book fits the Wolves, but to deny the utter cheddar wafting from this codex is just ignorant bliss. These guys are going to be the OP flavor of the month and for the next few months we are going to be seeing Space Wolves fight Space Wolves or Space Wolves fighting Guard, and it's gonna be a long boring few months before the Nid vs. Nid stuff starts when they get an update.

I dunno. The book fits them, but it is still severely powerful and has some already-obvious power builds. It's like a whole book full of Vulkan Hestans. *shiver*

It is a great book, but the fact that all the SM armies are now so wildly different is a sure-fire sign that the others were guinea pigs, victims of the "scale back experiment" late in 4th edition along with Chaos.

Get ready for the dual of the Blackmanes!

[Xas]

why did they give a hughe boost to the wolfes devastor-unit?

because ALL the other units SUCK *** to hell and back (only other way to use a devastor-a-like unit is with 4 meltaguns from CSM but that is special wapons and not heavies!).

I never understood why y heavy weapon is suddenly 10points more expensive just because your squad can take 4 and not score anymore.

shooting one weapon a turn with bs5 didnt help either...

[EmperorEternalXIX]

Again, this is one of the many provinces that should have belonged to other chapters, and is part of why I as a normal SM player will make every endeavor to either humiliate or avoid the wolves. It's just a sort of shameless and relatively needless buff.

[Xas]

well you as a SM player can at least count on that "needless buff" to cover over into your new codex: smurfs in at maximum 2 years. other harmies have to wait decades for their updates (orks, nec, de, ....).


all the marine dex work to be guniea pigs for the ones to follow and everyone should just choose the dex he thinks best fits the style/fluff/powerlevel of his army. if you think your "pointy sticks of the emperor" chapter deserves cheap devastors then make them puppies. if you think they deserve TL meltaguns make them vulkan-servants. if they by some crazy experiments use drugs that improve their stats use CSM (icons).

[Sarpedon]

I agree withyou entirely EmperorEternal, the very idea that length of wait for a new codex justifies how powerful a new book will be is a frightening precedence, think of the DE and Necrons in that case.

In regards to smurfs, the smrufs are supposed the basic marines, the standard template. Anything that improves upon this should be expensive. Now i dont think they needed to be 20pts per guy, but icertainly see at least 18, not to make them hugely expesive, but at least pay for the extra stuff they get cause lord knows they dont pay for it in many other spots.

Xas - i dont understand your comment? I think the space wolf long fangs should cost at least EXACTLY the same as the SM devies, due to having split fire and not a signum. The likely hood that we will see a wolf without at least two of these units is small.

Judgeing even from the list that was posted on the BOLS main page i can see the Wolves dominating every tournament for quite some time.

Shadowvast - i agree with you and i shall play several games against it, show me a weakness or downside of this army to begin with?

[Flummer]

I think this army will be more balanced than people think at standard point games, 1250-1750. It seems when they get up into 2000+ they are going to have a real advantage. I am a little scared of all the hub-bub going aroung, but this same kind of talk was going on about the 5th ed SM codex was about to release and it turned out fine.

[Levitas]

The new codex may look scary, and it is good. But like most of the new dexes will have its weak points. But there arnt many straight off the bat.

I'll be playing wolves, but with any army its good to know your own weak points.

Yes Njal is great. But make him roll dice and he'll eventually fall with the best of them. He will cause many problems though, and will no doubt be forecasting the weather in many tournaments.

Many of the special HQs dont have eternal warrior, so a hidden fist will ruin their day. They are also incredibly expensive, meaning that going over board will easily leave them outnumbered.

The assault nature of the army will also require crusaders to be truly affective. Thats another whack of points on top. Wolves also dont have access to sternguard, attack bike squadrons, ironclads and a bunch of other good stuff from the marine dex.

The strong builds will hold high numbers of greyhunters, and these will be the ones that are hard to beat.

It is a good codex, and I for one will relish using it. But its not invincible. The same talk will no doubt gather around nids and blood angels next year. People will be gawping at furious fleeting death company or nid beasts that kill everything on the table by turn 2 on a 2+. Just the way it is!

[Exitus Acta Probat]

The new codex may look scary, and it is good. But like most of the new dexes will have its weak points. But there arnt many straight off the bat.

I'll be playing wolves, but with any army its good to know your own weak points.

Yes Njal is great. But make him roll dice and he'll eventually fall with the best of them. He will cause many problems though, and will no doubt be forecasting the weather in many tournaments.

Many of the special HQs dont have eternal warrior, so a hidden fist will ruin their day. They are also incredibly expensive, meaning that going over board will easily leave them outnumbered.

The assault nature of the army will also require crusaders to be truly affective. Thats another whack of points on top. Wolves also dont have access to sternguard, attack bike squadrons, ironclads and a bunch of other good stuff from the marine dex.

The strong builds will hold high numbers of greyhunters, and these will be the ones that are hard to beat.

It is a good codex, and I for one will relish using it. But its not invincible. The same talk will no doubt gather around nids and blood angels next year. People will be gawping at furious fleeting death company or nid beasts that kill everything on the table by turn 2 on a 2+. Just the way it is!

Exceptional points across the board Lev...my thoughts exactly.
What people are reacting to is the OMG it's full of stars...and not really running out the lists.
If you use the good stuff, you are outnumbered.
If you don't, you are out LEADERSHIPED.
The ldrship of the army is 8 guys...pay attention to that...
Without the option for veteran sgts, you have to consume an elites slot for the sole purpose of doling out overpriced (though VERY well accoutered) super-sgts. Plugging them in normally brings the squad to parity with a Space Marine TAC squad, without combat squad options (or heavy weapons). It also FORCES you to either give up the second special weapon, or buy a LRC/R for transport.
Are they better, yes...are G-Hunters (as someone here put it) possibly the best troop in the game? very possibly.
But the context is everything.
To make it work, you MUST put points into overpriced toys.
Every 'dex has powerful units. The only one that can be truly spammed in this 'dex though, is the Grey Hunter...the rest are too expensive.
Are you going to complain that GW made a CORE TROOP UNIT (that fluff wise is the most prevalent in the army it's built for) efficient, desirable and affordable? Egads...gawd help it we follow fluff!
Characters rock, and cost more than land raiders.
Elites rock, and there aren't enough slots for em.
Fast attack is either good, but the same as their SM counterparts...or borderline grud to overpriced blech.
Hvy, okay...so an army can finally use devastators again, but WAIT! to make those awesome troops really worthwhile, we need LRC's/LRR's...so......hrrrrmmm
As GW has done with a number of 'dexes, they applied the best units (excepting Grey Hunters) to catagories that have too much competition to make the choices easy, or redundant.
Choose, but choose WISELY said the Templar to Indy...

There is no excessive spam in this army, excepting troop spam...what's wrong with that?

[warpcrafter]

After perusing this thread and the latest complaint thread about Chaos Space Marines, I believe that I may have just struck on an idea. I will continue to use my Chaos Space Marines models, counting as renamed Space Wolves. Instead of Thunderwolves, I'll have Khorne Berserkers riding Juggernauts. Instead of Ragnar Blackmane leading Bloodclaws, I'll have Kharn the (Not so anymore) Betrayer leading Berserkers on foot. Instead of Logan Grimnar leading Wolf Guard Terminators, I'll have Abaddon the Despoiler leading Black Legion Terminators. Throw in a few Chaos Hounds (Fenrisian Wolves) and a Daemon Prince for Canis Wolfborn and there you go. Not a perfect fix, but it's something.

[StrikerFox]

I still havent seen the dex for myself, but upon hearing all the rules and whatnots coming out, i have to say that it is a long time coming. i dont care what anyone else says.. you will ALWAYS come across others who will say "this is too cheesy" or "this dex is gonna break the game! nerf bat ahoy!" well i dont care, ive been waiting thru 3 armies til i could stand toe to toe with another MEQ army, and not get whipped around with my tail between my legs. to really go and say that this new dex is horrible or overpowered just because it has stuff others dont, well, its because... THEY DONT! i mean, crap, i still HATE black templars with that stupid preferred enemy rule! if i cant beat them in HtH with the wolves NOW... THEN something is HORRIBLY fken wrong!

in anycase, when i heard that they were more of an elitest army, i got scared and puckered up.... but now i see that it really depends on who and what you take, and how you use them. i will HAVE to change my old list, as now, out of hibernation, they are new and improved..

i still dont like that wolf that canis is riding.... looks like a huge scared cat.... with an monocle...