Intense Players

[scadugenga]

and go play 2 hour long 2nd edition close combats.

Another example of someone talking about 2nd edition without probably having ever played it...

[Astral Platypus]

Another example of someone talking about 2nd edition without probably having ever played it...

Orks as a matter of fact; back when Gazghkull still had a standard bearer (Makari) that went with him.
When and your opponent are both armed with parrying weapons the combats got pretty long. Basilisk firing twice a turn, needing at least 3 different sided dice to do armor penetration, deviation for jump packs, and shooting modifiers for cover and movement. There's more, but those are some of the bigger ones I can remember.

[zerokoa]

I was one of those guys who swore by 2nd edition for a decade.

Then 5th edition came along. The. Best. Edition. Ever. Overall.

As far as old farts touting their times 'back in the day', just deal with it. I am 31 years old, and I was 20 at one time too. Trust me, as you get older, you'll be like that before you know it.

"Back in my day, in 5th edition...."

You'll see. Save this thread and open it up in 15 years.

Yeah it can be annoying, but I think most of it is harmless ignorance. Old farts just wanting to relive their youths through tales. It is just human nature.

In this case I'm lucky. I'm 45, and I started playing with the 2nd edition ( that was a real mess, it took 4 hours just for the first game ), and I totally agree with you...the 5th edition is the best ever.

[scadugenga]

Orks as a matter of fact; back when Gazghkull still had a standard bearer (Makari) that went with him.
When and your opponent are both armed with parrying weapons the combats got pretty long. Basilisk firing twice a turn, needing at least 3 different sided dice to do armor penetration, deviation for jump packs, and shooting modifiers for cover and movement. There's more, but those are some of the bigger ones I can remember.

I played eldar throughout 2nd ed. Parrying blades did not make combat all that slow: Melee was much more vicious in 2nd ed than it is currently. Particularly if you had a 2+ WS disparity with your opponent, or had him surrounded and fighting multiple mini-combats.

Armor Pen was a bit of a pain, yes. However there just weren't that many vehicles on the table to really worry about either.

And while you had shooting modifiers (both positive and negative--most weapons were +1 or +2 to hit at short range), many weapons made armor saves all but worthless. (EG: Shuriken Catapult hits a Marine and wounds. -2 save mod on the catapult means the Marine only survives on a 5+)

Psychic phase was separate, but generally much nastier than the current psychic rules in 40k.

All in all, games still take about the same amount of time to play. People just forget things like points costs differences and changes in rules mechanics. Essentially what they did with 3rd ed+ is replace the shooting modifiers to hit with the cover save mechanic, and frankly--cover saves prolong the game a lot more than shooting modifiers ever did.

[Astral Platypus]

With Orks it seemed like you were relying on the ACME factor of your wargear to win games, not shooting, hand-to-hand, or psychic powers like everyone else. It might be that my experience with the game is tinted by that, but the games DID seem to take a bit longer, considering the amount of models you had on the board.

[Deathula]

If these guys want to gripe about your all pewter army, old codex, and difficult to model wargear, I say cram unit-wide 3+ invulnerable saves and AP1 flamers down their throats until they reach for their lisinopril and go play 2 hour long 2nd edition close combats in the corner with their Green Elmer Fudd Space Vikings(Orks).

Every edition of 40k has had rule problems, but they have generally been improvements from the last. I will happily take 5th edition's flaws over 2nd edition armor penetration rules and 3rd edition target priority any day. Find a way to beat those guys, and don't stop till they're playing checkers!

Completely off topic but total, de je vu. I swear I read this a year or more before I started this job, and I swear I was sititng exactly where I am sitting.