Fate of Eldar - what will change with future codex?

[Fueldrop]

Wraithguard… I have no idea.

Plastic kit.

[scadugenga]

@ Darklink
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@ scadugenga
- Agreed, no need to raid Dark Eldars (and nice twist pun, thank you. xD). Tried to enchant what they already have instead borrowing from moody kin. However, certain things - like fly-by-attacks - are logical result how certain units would work anyhow (Swooping hawks actually had option to drop grenades while moving over enemies during 2nd edition).
- CTM? Cannot recall that one.

Hawks actually debuted in RT era ('91) and had thrice the drop capability than 2nd ed, just 1/2 the distance. (If BR gets around to reading the article submission/posting*, it'll go into greater detail.)

Fly-by attacks would be nice--it's a new dimension they've sprung into being with the DE codex.

And while I'm in agreement to leave the DE codex alone--GW stole from the eldar codex and giveth to the marine-crap, so I can see them doing the same to DE spiffies.

CTM: Crystal Targeting Matrix. The vehicle wargear option that let the eldar shoot in the move phase.

Shuriken fix: The 18" range catapults for Avengers is a spot-fix. The Shuricat was the premiere basic weapon in the game pre-3rd ed. 24" range, multiple shots, and more armor pen than a bolter. It was nerfed badly in 3rd ed, and curb-stomped in 4th when the rules let rapid fire weapons shoot twice @ 12" even if the unit moved.

I'd love to see Pirates and Exodites return--but that's probably just pipe-dreaming by now.

*I am in by no means complaining, since I took forever to get him the thing in the first place.

[davel]

some things that have been creeping in to 5th codexes that eldar don't have.

characters that shift units to troops/ make them scoring
we only have the wraith guard shift. Which i think was the grandaddy of this ability. warbosses, marine captains on bikes and pedro. the baron (or is it the duke?) shows that this ability is stil going strong

weapons that ignore cover saves ( other than flamers)

abilities/ weapons that mess up/ignore invulnerable saves.

eldar should not necacerly have a "hammer" unit (though seer councils currently fill this gap) we should have some way to deal with them. Dark eldar got shatter shard.

abilities/ weapons that alter opponent ld

many of our foes have special Ld rules( fearless, stubborn, TSKNF, mob size) currently the ld mechanic is under used but may well become more important in 6th

dave l

[Telepfenion]

@ SaganGree
- Interesting solution. However, apart Runes of Warding there is no real wargear to Farseer to share for warlocks. Power quality would make witchblades deadly, thought, thus in that case limited amount would be reasonable. What kind of powers Warlocks and Farseers would have? Current powers are potent but limited to single squad at time, making them much weaker than powers that forms zones (which, strangely, still affect only way that there is no harm for friendly units). Anyhow, I would dislike to see zone-powers for Eldar, as even if powerful, those lack precision.
- How these buffs would work? I understand inspiring presence of Avatar as it affects Eldar's psyche but Autarchs are far from demigods. And why to lock Autarch to 4th edition when he is already half-way to fifth? Current edition is more about timed arrival, deployment and moving of models than actually killing or surviving, and Eldar - especially Autarch - has more than potential to grand powers beyond the tabletop.
- Avatar's Eternal Warrior would be more stylish (and to place him same group with Phoenix Lords) than actual critical upgrade as far as I can think. On other hand, why not? And it will cause less panic than increasing his strength to 8 which would mean that he could actually pick and kill T4 independent characters within squad with single blow.
- Eldars focus to their paths to avoid corruption caused by passions and pain token kind of boosts would exactly what they try to avoid with their culture. Tempting option nether to less.
- 18" catapult range would make things indeed much more easier for many.
- No access to Warlocks would change a lot (they are currently attached guardians/wraithguards as advisers to provide guidance for those who lack it). Of course, even average warlock should be way more potent psyker than they currently are and if they get boost they need, there is no way that GW let every other eldar squad access to librarian-equivalent spyker as mere sergeant.
- Not necessary sure if there need to be another army-wide special rule if squads are well balanced and unique. I hoverer disagree Dark Eldars being faster, while their vehicles go fast due lessened protection, they aren't faster version of Eldar kin; and variant fleet wouldn't be impossible for them if they would utilize other kind of weaponry yet they don't (they don't run forth and back, they drive next to target and unload their weapons without even bothering set their foot out of raider).
- Thank you for ideas. ^^

@ Fueldrop
- Hehehe. Good point. Aren't wraithguards oldest models currently in GW's production?
- Thanks for dropping by.

@ scadugenga
- Oh, cool. No experience from times of Rogue Trade.
- Should have know. Oh well, there is reason why personally trying to avoid abbreviations. Thank you for clearing that one out. ^^
- Now I feel stupid but can't catch context of third paragraph.
- Aware of advantages in 2nd edition but already used to see catapults as submachine guns good to storm trenches while lasguns as rifles while bolters as assault rifles. Rapid-fire change really hit hard, that is true. Rending is already suggested but it is unlikely. Fleet variant was my way to alter current system to give some extra influence for catapults but guess it isn't enough for most.
- Pirates were cool with lots of shiny, rare stuff but somehow I think that pirates were the starting point where from Dark Eldars evolved. And dunno, dragon knights could actually be solution to GW give Eldar those wolf-rider like hammer unit as Craftworld eldars lack that kind of direct punch (well, Eldars doesn't really need hammer unit but hammers are easy to play, thus making them tempting choice meaning more money for GW). Most likely it doesn't happen but who knows. It is money-worth option if noticed.
- Thank you. ^^-

@ davel
- I guess this unit shifts were result to try to make single army with possibility to make alternatives. Rangers as troops allowed build Alaitoc theme army, as well as Storm Guardians for Ulthwé, Wrathguard shift for Iyanden, Guardian Jetbikers as troops instead fast attack for sake of Saim-Hann while Biel-Tan has been the generic craftworld to build construction on. Ironically, there are too many famous Marine Chapters and named heroes to be worked out with only few extra troop choices than they would normally get. If Eldar will get more unit shifts, it is most likely related to Phoenix Lords.
- All mono-filament weapons should ignore cover - feel free to go down and avoid direct hit but wires will remain there, waiting you to move and get you sliced!
- Farseer power that would force opponent(s) take reserved invulnerable saves would be really Eldar like, turning opponent's greatest strengths to their own doom!
- Return of Exodus Dragon Knights could fit lore and serve as hammer unit but - while I would like to see those fellows back - I can agree Eldars wouldn't need hammer units in first place. Synergy of whole should stay more important factor than any individual unit.
- Heh. Ld modifying sound like Farseer's stuff as well. Something what could turn something really potent against them, something like influencing their pride or honour etc to make them make poor choices. Something like feint weakness - opponents would need to fail leadership test to avoid become over-confident and make unwise moves or maybe making them stand out from their covers.
- Thank you a lot! Your thought resulted few news potential powers for farseer!

[lattd]

My thinking behind the walkers becoming is fast is the fact they should be scouts and hence outflanking and being ahead of the firing lines. With this movement to fast combined with the falcon hopefully becoming a transport we would have more space for heavies. The nightwing being a big jetfighter would fit right in just like the razorwing or voidraven for dark eldar.

Dragon knights sound interesting maybe an exodite special character, have a special bow that shoots pyschic arrows ? maybe an autuarch court where you could have an exarch from each aspect as a member each providing a different benefit?

[davel]

cheers for the feed back Telepfenion

on your

- All mono-filament weapons should ignore cover - feel free to go down and avoid direct hit but wires will remain there, waiting you to move and get you sliced

i was hoping that the night spinner would have this ( though if you move dangerous terrain effect similar but not the same). It didn't . The problem being to be anti cover you need AP 4 so that targets that need the improved cover save find them selves vulnerable. Not that ap 3 would not be nice but it would be a little out of line with other ignore cover weapons.
However the night spinner weaponry was kept in line with the other monofilament weapons with ap -.

I think there is room in the codex for a cover hugging aspect. with stealth and move terrain infiltrate, cover ignoring weapons, defensive and plasma grenades, close combat weapon and a heavy flamer for exarch.

I'd call em shadow wraiths

scops are part way there but not the full clear terrain package.

dave L

[Ghoulio]

@ Davel: That is by far the best look at what will come for the Eldar Codex I have seen yet. All armies seem to have wish listing posts as to what they would like to see next, but for some reason none are as completely wack and out there as most CW:E ones. You are right in thinking that they best way to figure out what is coming, is by looking at the DE changes, as the ones in CW:E will be incredibly similar. Here is what I am thinking will happen:

- I can 100% see aspect warriors going to WS 5 with exachs at 6. I think this would be an awesome change and would completely make sense. If you look at incubi you can compare them to scorpions. For only 6 pts more Incubi get power weapons, fleet, +1 WS and power through pain, so to think that the aspect warriors will have to get some changes is pretty easy to see.

- Guardians will change. I bet their stats won't change but I also bet their options will. I would guess that 1 heavy weapon per 10 guardians is reasonable as well as a point decrease. I could also see shuriken catapults changing too as a 12" storm bolter on a guardsman is a super bad idea lol. I hope they get a point decrease to 6 points if the cats change or to 5pts if they dont.

- Shuriken Catapults. I would love to see these go to 18" range on the regular guardians and the dire avenger versions become rending.

- All mono-filment weapons should become rending (look at the night spinner for the push in that direction)

- Cost of Bright Lances, and anything that isnt a Scatter Laser. Sure DE got a point increase on these weapons but they are still substantially cheaper then on regular Eldar. A Brightlance for a guardian squad that is only BS 3 instead of 4 is still 10 points more then the DE counter part (although it does count as an assault weapon being on a platform). DE can get 15+ dark lances into a 2000pt list were CW:E will be hard pressed to see 5 and still be effective.

- I pray Eldar get assault ramps on Serpents for their assault troops. Would make total sense for this army

- I also pray that they get Ariel Assault for their battle tanks and vypers. One thing that would also be nice to see is a new form of crystal targeting matrix that allows for a +1 BS on vehicles that can take them. They are the most technilogical race out there so their vehicle upgrades should show it.

- The last thing I would really like to see is something new and fresh in the codex. Apart from Autarchs this book has been virtually the exact same since 2nd ed, so it would be nice to see some new aspect warriors like the ones FW is working on. Would be great to see some fliers added to the list.

If you think about it though, the Eldar book is still one of the better books out there. Really fluffy, tonnes of great choices and one of the best model ranges. The biggest thing to hope for is that Phil Kelly writes it and they do the same kind of quality work that was done on the DE. If that happens then this will take the CW:E from being one of my 3 fav armies (Nids, DE and Eldar) to being BY FAR my fav army

[Telepfenion]

@ lattd
- Ah I see. In that case Walkers as 'fast' would make sense, at least if grav-vehicles doesn't get Scout or Deep Strike qualities they have all reasnons access to.
- As far as I know, Nightwings aren't any larger than normal grav-tank, just different shape, maybe even bit smaller. And if armed with three (twin-linked?) shurricen cannons, it would only heavy support choice without access heavy weapons but at least ignoring cover from turbo-boost. At least if it is Nightwing from Apocalypse, memory that it has deputed there already.
- Well, even 'shortage for typical Eldar goods', Dragon Knights used to be armed with laser lanced. Of course, psyhsic arrows shooting bow could be heirloom from time before Fall. "(insert name) - the Protege of World Spirit" would be pretty awesome actually.
- Exarch counsil sounds cool but how it would work with Hawk's and Spider's extra mobility?
- Cool ideas to work with. Thank you. ^^

@ davel
- I think Web ability is that way nice that it hurts equally everyone, making it outright lethal to anyone without ++.
- D-cannon blast shouldn't mind about cover - I mean, everything is just sucked to warp. Vibro-cannon should actually be more lethal depending how much cover can fall over the victim.
- I think psychic power that would make opponent stand out from cover would deal trouble nicely. Alone it has no much effect but synergy would be lethal.
- New aspect, eh? Interesting interception but do we need all that in single unit? Especially when it would cross three other aspects (or at least what they should be doing)? But lets not shell idea outright... is there any way to make them really unique?

@ Ghuolio [edited to middle]
- Thank you for dropping by. Sadly too little time and too tired to focus fully.
- No quessing how Aspect powers would get boosted apart statistics? But yes, there is plenty of room to play. ^^
- 5/6 point guardians sounds nasty cheap. Could still happen. Good for business. 200+ Eldar on table would be really unexpected.
- Range issue is been long here but I kind of like rending option for Avengers instead anohter range boost. Blade storm would actually hurt after that.
- Rending, cover-negating and web. Long list of special powers for mono-fabric-weaponry but all rerasonable as well.
- Cheaper weapons are reasonable and familiar demand. Likely to happen too, thus it means more monay. Other way out would be upgradeing weapons themselves to fit current prices.
- Assault ramps are reasonable demand. Odds on other hand, aren't. At least, not without some sort of ramming-assault option.
- Aerial assault could make sense, at least for vypers and nightwing. And true, more upgrades are needed - Eldar have quality over quanity.
- Refeshing? Resurection of Dragon Knights and pirates are suggested, I'm hoping to see Star Eagle Aspect (pilots) as well but what would be pocked to new Aspect Warrior type to fill? Ironically, currently Eldar books has been pretty loyal to craftworld lifestyle - traditional and lacking creativity. xD
- Lets hope the best. ^^
- Thank you and pardom if my thinking is only half-way done.

@ General
Alright, Eldar psychic powers have got some spot light laterly and warlocks as secondary spykers instead mere retinue.

So, what would happen if we would return back in time and give Warlocks (1-3 as HQ choise) ability to pick two (Farseer) powers and cast one per turn (without access to spirit stone) while Farseer could use two powers row as average?

Possible powers
- Pride: Target must fail Leadership test or lose cover saves until next turn. Removes Gone to Ground status.
- Mind Borrowing: Target spyker must score equal or more in Leadership Roll-off each time using psychic power. If failed, Farseer nominates target/destination/etc for power instead actual psyker.
- Agony: Target loses No Pain special rule.
- Banishment: Target (picked out model / large template?) must pass reversed Invunerable Save or suffer wound.
- Blind: Target suffer from Nigth Fighting Rules and difficult terrain.
- Precision: Target's AP is increased by 1, to minimum of 1.
- Second Thoughts: Target must roll extra d6 whenever making leadership related rolls, then discarding single result of Farseer's choice.
- Malfunction: Pick a Target. Victim shoots itself with one of its weapon of Farseer's choice.

Pretty powerful, yes? Any potentially workable?

[DrLove42]

@ lattd
- - As far as I know, Nightwings aren't any larger than normal grav-tank, just different shape, maybe even bit smaller. And if armed with three (twin-linked?) shurricen cannons, it would only heavy support choice without access heavy weapons but at least ignoring cover from turbo-boost. At least if it is Nightwing from Apocalypse, memory that it has deputed there already.

The Nightwing is as wide as a falcon and 50% as long again (so 150% the length). I know, i have 2

It's armed with 2 Cannons, and 2 Bright Lances

It also doesn't ignore turboboost cover

[Telepfenion]

@ DrLove42
- Thank you. My memory served me wrong. Clad that one become confirmed. Makes me just wonder why I was left impression from that vehicle that it is good for aerial dog-fights. Current variant indeed sounds heavily armed.