chaos space marines rules discussion

**zealotic** · 10-19-2010, 10:06 PM

If I can chime in, I would make the ability dependent on the victim, as in fearless units go mad with rage unable to distinguish friend from foe, stubborn takes a leadership test or that happens (shot in the dark there), and they shall know no fear could have some other effect.

**L192837465** · 10-20-2010, 08:35 AM

Personally, I could care less about the chaplain. He was used in one book of the 8 chaos powers after the fall. Whatever.

My biggest grief: Chaos Dreadnaughts.

They SHOULD be:

Cost: 125pts

Front Side Rear Ws Bs S A
12 12 10 5 4 5 4

Replace ranged weapon with second ccw for +1a - Free
It should start armed with twin heavy bolters and upgrade them for:
Reaper Autocannon: 5 points
Multi-melta: 10 pts
Plasma cannon: 10pts
Replace CCW with Missile launcher: free

Rage rules: same, except:
On a 1: fire all weapons twice at nearest enemy unit, dread cannot move
on a 6: gains fleet and if contacts enemy (or is already engaged), adds +2 attacks instead of 1 for charging.

If two ccw, both results are a "6"
If no ccw, both results are a "1"

**Mal** · 10-20-2010, 08:57 AM

I think 7 Str 10 attacks on the charge is a bit too much for only 125 points there...

4 attacks base is already double the loyalist dreadnought (which standard dread only had the option for a single dccw)...

So for 20 points more you get a higher ws/bs, double the A and extra special rules that have no negative side effects.

A little too much, either up the price, or down the bonuses.

As it stands now, the current chaos dreadnought has the exact same stat line as the loyalist one, and with the same basic weapon loadout is still 5 points cheaper... yes there is the crazed special rule... yes I think this needs changing... but in changing this you should make a walking behemoth that can annihilate anything it touches for only 125 points.

**DarkLink** · 10-20-2010, 10:32 AM

Yeah, while I've always though that Dreads should be a little better in CC, being that good for that cheap is a bit much. Or, a lot much.

Plus, I don't even know why they bother with the TL heavy bolter weapon on Dreads. It's nearly worthless, as you can have a much better weapon for a few more points.

**Xas** · 10-20-2010, 12:50 PM

tbh all I really want for on an "improvement" front is a few things:

make chaos dreadnoughts not turn around and shoot yourself/exposing their ***.

remove the idea that the icon is a wargear that gives you a marks benefit:
a unit can have a mark of chaos for x points (where X is the current points).
one model can be a icon bearer for 15 points and work as a locator beacon (yes the gods of chaos will guide jumptroops as well!)

choosen cost 20 points, get +1A and can take as many marks as they want (none twice). they can replace their bolters with 4 assoult weapons, 1 heavy OR a 5th assoult weapon, additionally they can replace their ccw with 4 special close combat weapons and/or replace pistol with plasmapistol.

they can be upgraded to terminator armor for +20 (40 in total so as much as termiantor champions) points/model, replacing bolter and pistol with twinlinked bolter, ccw with power weapon. terminator choosen can take every option like chaos terminators but melee upgrades count towards the squads total of 4 and the reaper/heavy flamer counts as the squads heavy weapon.

the whole unit can be euqipped with jumppacks for +15 points, getting heroic intervention but loosing the option for 1 heavy weapon (still 5 spezials)
the whole unit can be quipped with bikes for +20 points but loosing the option for 1 heavy weapon (still 5 spezials)

in addition the champion can be equipped with everything a chaos lord can for adapted price (deamon weapon is less valueable as a single 1 kills of the champion).

HQs and choosen can have all of the marks once OR one mark twice (ultimate mark similar to culttroops).
deamon weapons no longer loose all attacks automatically on a 1. instead the bearer may make a lds check to only take one automatic hit from his weapon and gets to make his normal attacks with no +1d6 this turn (if he fails the effects are same as now)
deamon weapons get stronger depending on the marks of their owner as well with ultimate marks as follows:
khorne +2d6 attacks (so a total of +4d6)
nurgle poison 2+ and every model attacking the bearer has to make a T check bevor doing so or cannot attack at all this turn
tzeentch bearer may reroll every single d6 rolled for himself (this effect shuts down for one player turn if you fail your lds check after rolling two (as you can reroll that dice as well) 1s for the deamon weapon in a row)
slanesh bearer doubles his WS, I, A, gets fleet and doubles his movement (so 12" move, 2d6 fleet, 12" charge). movement only doubles if he is on his own.

tl;dr: fix icons, make choosen worthwhile,

**mstingray** · 10-20-2010, 02:02 PM

I actually just started creating my own Chaos Dex a few days ago, having missed this thread entirely. As to the psychic defence debate, I made sorcerers have a special rule that casues all psykers to suffer perils of the warp on a double, as I believe them to be to arrogant to stop it, they are partly chaos after all, but have equipment in the army that could nullify the powers, although I haven't thought of it yet.

I included a kind of eye of the gods in there ("borrowed" from the fantasy chaos) as I believe that will be awesome having a tooled up chaos Lord walking up to a Carnifex, slaying it and getting a bonus (or turned into a spawn!!)

**Smurfs** · 11-09-2010, 11:44 AM

I would love to see Chaos get a Fast Attack vehicle of some kind, along the lines of a Vyper or a Land Speeder.

**Daemonette666** · 12-17-2010, 09:10 AM

Some of your changes sound O.K., however some are either weaken the army too much or make it way too powerful. I have made comments to some I disagreed with, but added what I thought it should be changed to.