Tzeentch/Nurgle Butthurt

[epoch7]

Okay, here's a list I made while reading the daemons codex on the toilet. I think this list is butthurt. It might be better as 2000 points, but I would just add Soul Grinders to it.

• 1 x Fateweaver - 333 points
• 1 x Epidemius - 110 points
• 5 x Plaguebearers + Chaos Icon + Instrument of Chaos - 105 points
• 5 x Plaguebearers + Chaos Icon + Instrument of Chaos - 105 points
• 5 x Plaguebearers + Chaos Icon - 100 points
• 5 x Plaguebearers + Chaos Icon - 100 points
• 3 x Flamers - 105 points
• 3 x Flamers - 105 points
• 1 x Daemon Prince + Mark of Nurgle + Instrument of Chaos + Cloud of Flies + Breath of Chaos + Iron Hide - 180 points
• 1 x Daemon Prince + Mark of Nurgle + Instrument of Chaos + Cloud of Flies + Breath of Chaos - 150 points
• 3 x Beasts of Nurgle - 105 points

Total: 1498

The idea is that the PBs, Epidemius and the Beasts of Nurgle come in and get really annoying. Then turn two drop the DPs and the FW near the PBs with the Icon. The flamers annoy vehicles, with glancing BoC shots or warpfire into shooty troops. Everybody except Epidemius is squished up against the enemy(he's on the other side of the table, maybe at an objective?). Hopefully this does a crazy amount of model kills and keeps beefing up the all the Nurglers and protects them even harder with the FW. Whatcha think? Evil? Stupid? Butthurt?

[Chumbalaya]

Stupid :P

Too many points sunk into icons and other useless upgrades, your entire army hinges on 2 DPs, and you have nothing to stop mech beyond swinging at them with said DPs.

[epoch7]

What other upgrades dont you think fit with the list? I like instruments because they are cheap and tying combat is so common. I could save points and only put two CI's in: one in each half of the army. That 50 points could buy a lot of PB's or 1 PB and 1 Beast of Nurgle.

[Chumbalaya]

Instruments are points filler, nothing more. If you have 5 points to spare, go nuts, but don't miss out on anything to get them. Icons are expensive, don't work on the initial drop (the one that matters) and can get torrented out of small units.

Fateweaver doesn't let you re-roll FNP and only has 1 anti-tank gun, he's also T5 and fairly easy to torrent down if you focus on him. Also, PBS = scared chicken.

An Epi list with 2 DPs and no other Nurgle units capable of killing things is bad. You need 3 DPs and a GUO (or suicide breath Heralds) to get the tally high enough that Nurglings and Beasts can actually do something, Plaguebearers will always suck in assault. The army is still fail because you only have 3 mobile armor hunters, and it's only in combat. Since your entire army can be ignored by mech, they focus on the DPs and you get hosed. You didn't even add any anti-tank to your mix, just more infantry killers.

[epoch7]

Hmmm, if you think there's not enough mech killing, how about getting rid of a unit of flamers and two chaos icons, and replacing them with a Soul Grinder with the tank-popping Tongue weapon? I think the flamers are useful against mech because they can catch them and auto hit them with BoC. The points are there to make one of the DP's fly instead of Iron Hide and BoC.

Other than the +3 FNP, the Beasts don't benefit from epidemius. Maybe the points would be better spend as fiends of slaanesh?

[Chumbalaya]

Fiends are always a better pick, but Beasts with noxious touch and ignoring armor are very nasty, only PBs get 3+ FNP IIRC.

A Soul Grinder with tongue is not a tank buster. It's BS3 on your only vehicle on the board. When I'm talking about mech, it's more about the masses of transport vehicles that come along. You have nothing to stop Rhinos beyond whacking them with your DPs or burning Tongue on it, not good. And if they're transports that actually do something, like Wave Serpents, Devilfish or Razorbacks you're in trouble.

Flamers are not anti-vehicle because they auto glance. Glancing hits do not stop vehicles, only slow or annoy them.

[epoch7]

The Beasts of Nurgle have FNP, but they don't have Plagueswords. The only models that benefit from all the Epi upgrades are the PBs and Epi himself. There's definitely a weakness against vehicles in this list just like every other daemon list I suppose. It sucks I cant play play something fun and have a decent shot at winning in 5th edition unless I play against a horde army.

[Chumbalaya]

Fully tallied, Epi gives all Nurgle critters noxious touch and ignoring armor, if they have FNP they get it on a 3+.

You can certainly play such a list, just make sure your opponent is running a casual themed list too :P

[epoch7]

I tried out this list the for the first time last night in a 4 player game of 2-team capture and control. I know it's not really a good way to judge a list, but there were four of us and we didn't want to exclude anyone. My ally played a plaguemarine-focused chaos space marine army and we played against an eldar/sisters of battle team. It was kind of unfair considering Epidemius effected his nurgle troops, but they knew well before their lists were made that I would be fielding him.

csm list:
three rhinos - each rhino with 5 plaguemarines, 2 meltas, 1 champion with a power fist. except one champion in a rhino who doesnt have a powerfist because he gets sacked for a
chaos dragon - this thing went toe to toe with a wraith lord for like 3 or 4 turns
land raider - kairn the betrayer and some marines
havocs - 4 rocketlaunchers.

eldar:
2 wave serpents with brightlances, packed with dire avengers
8 striking scorpions
3 war walkers
2 war walkers
1 wraith lord

sisters of battle:
i have no idea, really. its was my first time playing against the witch hunters army
2 exorcists: these things are ridiculously good.
lots of rhinos, full of battle sisters and celestians

just some things i figured out:
fateweaver's bs of 5 is crushing. his bolt of tzeentch and daemonic gaze are crazy when you're basically auto hitting. fw didnt really make it close enough to my tropps to give them the oracle of eternity buff, though. i feel kind of silly fielding the fw and then not getting him close to my units, but i needed his shooting to take out the vehicles on the other side of the board from my infantry.

beasts of nurgle... suck. they cant capture a point. they can suck up wounds, but they cant really hurt anything other than troops. when your opponent is playing for a draw and he just tank shocks you off the objective they arent going to help you. next time i will play a soul grinder.

the daemon princes struck in super deep and breath of chaos'd 5 guys right off the bat. one died and one got locked in close combat really fast. he went on to kill a whole unit of guys, though.

finally, those instruments of chaos were excellent. they helped me gain a big advantage with PBs and DPs. The chaos icons? did nothing! i could keep one just in case, and use the points to get that soul grinder goin' on...

[Chumbalaya]

You'll need more DPs to get the tally up.

Fateweaver has his one S8 AP1 shot. Yay for 300+ points well spent?

Beasts tie stuff down and get mean with the tally up. They're no Fiends, but in an Epi list you must make do.