BATTLE REPORT THREAD: Tyranids Codex week 11/8/2017 Chaos Daemons vs Nids

[Mayhems_Muse]

Army Lists
Hive Fleet Cobra Kai

Battalion Detachment: Gorgon
Swarmlord – 300 – Warlord
Broodlord – 162 – Bio-Artefact – Ymargl Factor
Genestealers (15) – Rending Claws
Hormagaunts (21) – 105
Rippers (7) – 77
Tyrant Guard (3) – Lashwhip & Boneswords, Rending Claws – 117
Haruspex – 198

Patrol Detachment: Kronos
Tyranid Prime – Lashwhip Bonesword, Deathspitter – 107
Warriors (3) – 2x Deathspitters/1xVenomcannon – 90
Warriors (3) – 2x Deathspitters/1xVenomcannon – 90
Warriors (3) – 2x Deathspitters/1xVenomcannon – 90
Warriors (3) – 2x Deathspitters/1xVenomcannon – 90
Hive Guard (3) – Impaler Cannons – 144

6/6 CP

1750 Points

Chaos Daemons
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage -340

Herald of Khorne on Juggernaut – 100

20x Demonettes w/ demonic icon and instrument of Chaos 215

30x Bloodletters- w/ demonic icon and instrument of Chaos 305

20x Bloodletters- 180

Herald of Slaanesh -66

Herald of Nurgle – 70

3x Nurglings -60

3x Nurglings -60

3x Nurglings -60

6x Blood Crushers w/ instrument of Chaos – 292

9/9 CP
1748 PL

[Icendar]

Well, that melee next to the objective was a lot more decisive than I thought it was going to be. Go Bloodletters and Mr Thirsty. MVP's

JR - I'd be interested to hear what your turn by turn plan was with Mr Thirsty. Was it just to go and have a showdown with Swarmy? Seemed to me that he found himself in the right place at the right time when the objective was revealed and saved the Bloodletters from being stealer food. Holding the stealers up for a turn so the Bloodletters could fight the gaunts and stealers one at a time was really lucky/good.

I'd also be interested to hear what Adam would have done differently. I can't think of much I would have done differently if I was in his shoes. JR got lucky with the flip of that objective and left some of Adam's heavy hitters out in the cold (including Swarmy and the Haruspex).

All in all, that was a great game to watch.

[AdamHarry]

I'd also be interested to hear what Adam would have done differently. I can't think of much I would have done differently if I was in his shoes. JR got lucky with the flip of that objective and left some of Adam's heavy hitters out in the cold (including Swarmy and the Haruspex).

Short answer - a lot.
Long Answer - shoot the Bloodthirster earlier. I let the BT go for too long without shooting at it. I think that was a mistake - I also don't think I should have multi-charged the BT with the genestealers and the Broodlord. The BL was my only real synapse for the Gaunts and he was also a boost for the stealers. Realistically, I should have fallen back and not charged and forced JR to commit. I could have gotten another round of shooting off with my Warriors and thinned the herd a bit.

To JR's credit, he played it aggressive and smart. I really liked talking to him about his decision process and helping him weight his options as we played. I know that Daemons aren't his preferred army as well so he had to learn a lot of new stuff on the day, too.
There were a couple of big fights that I personally wanted to see - Rippers vs Nurglings and Swarmy vs BT. Unfortunately for Swarmy, he didn't get the charge off - which I think could have been a game changer. I was a little boxed in on the right flank thanks to some lucky morale tests and bad positioning. It happens.
I think I was a bit too worried about the daemonettes as well - I had the option to focus fire them down or shoot the Nurglings. I should have just fallen back, given up the objective and taken out the daemonettes. The relic can't be passed to a new unit so when those nurglings either run off with it or the Bloodletters run by, I could have just sniped them and saved 15 VPs.
I also could have positioned my warriors better - I had the Tyranid Prime stuck behind them and if I placed them better, he could have been in the fight sooner.

The list I made was designed to showcase some of the cool things the adaptations bring - I wasn't going for an optimized and finely tuned listed. I didn't bring an Exocrine or Tyrannofex. I think a Tyrannofex with the Fleshborer Hive could have been pretty deadly that game in particular; lots of light armor and soft targets. But I wanted to bring Kronos today and I felt like Gorgon was a good pairing with it.
I was really disappointed in the Hormagaunts. I would have rather had 20 Termagants (the Lynchpin of my army) run up that flank to shoot Bloodletters. I think those would have been more effective in that combat. I could chalk it up to bad rolls but they just didnt' have the hitting power I was needing.

Anyways, there were lots of little things that added up to a Tyranid defeat today and I could probably spend all night going over it and playing the "what if" game - but I'm okay with losing that one to JR. I learned some things and I'll be ready for round two (or is it round 4 at this point).

Overall, I like the changes to the Tyranids. I think as I get more and more play time with them they are going to get meaner and meaner. That's why I collect an army - I like to have lots of options and distill it down. Plus, it if it's bad, I'll just set it on the shelf till the next codex. That trash unit could be good next edition (and if it's already painted...except I totally skipped on Pyrovores, DOH!)

Thanks for hangin out in chat Icendar!

- - - Updated - - -

Oh couple more things:
Tyranid Warriors are a bit pricy points wise, but I think they really brought the hurt today with the Tyranid Prime nearby. Hitting on 3+ shoot with re-rolls on 1s (thanks to Kronos) I felt like I was playing Grey Knights! Str 5 shots, Ap -1...at 24" was pretty good. Also the Venom Cannons were on point today!
The Haruspex was pretty baller, too. I rolled bonkers for his number of attacks twice and it was great. Had those not been daemons, they probably would have gotten rolled a lot sooner. The Haruspex is a certified Horde killer...
Tyrant Guard were kind of ok...I still hate their version of the Bodyguard rule, but whatever.
Rippers aka Uncle Jessie are still great to take as speed bumps and points/slots filler. I will be using them more I think. Anytime I need to fill out a detachment - Gorgon Rippers!

I also have been really liking running two detachments from two different hive fleets. It opens up a lot of dumb combos. I don't think I'll do it very often but I'm also starting to see it a lot in all the armies that can do it. Maybe that's how GW was planning on tweaking allies in 8th...I dunno.

I did miss running neurothropes. So cheap for what they do. I'm gonna need to buy another box of 'Thropes...

[Navaren]

I know the question was asked at the beginning of the week and you were up in the air. After a week with the book and three games with different hive fleets under your belt, do you have an official stance on Splinter Fleet Cobra Kai is "Hive Fleet X?"

Follow up for everyone. Just coming back into 40k with 8th the biggest thing I have seen so far is that becoming a codex army gives you a better toolbox for dealing with anything you come across. It seems to me that IG and Nids have received the most versatile toolboxes so far. Do you think we will see the same sort of pattern going forward where the elite armies have an expanded toolbox but stick to their wheel house and the "horde" armies end up with more expansive big red "snap-on" cases of tools.

[StableAbe]

If you are talking about Stratagems at least I honestly don't IG got that much, I feel like they have the weakest Stratagems, and CSM have the best. In fact I would say almost hands down the CSM got the most from their Codex and became suuuuper toolboxy. IG got some good Doctrines, but aside from that most of what they do now they did before, just occasional, like with Lemon Russes, better.

[SALLstice]

I remember hearing rumors marines are getting some tweaking from chapter approved?
If that's true I think GW is indirectly admitting each of the codices has been better than the previous ones. Minus Eldar?

I dunno. Mildly related.

[Navaren]

Even DG is getting some tweaks based on the rumors I saw and they were what 4th out the gate?

[AdamHarry]

I know the question was asked at the beginning of the week and you were up in the air. After a week with the book and three games with different hive fleets under your belt, do you have an official stance on Splinter Fleet Cobra Kai is "Hive Fleet X?"

Follow up for everyone. Just coming back into 40k with 8th the biggest thing I have seen so far is that becoming a codex army gives you a better toolbox for dealing with anything you come across. It seems to me that IG and Nids have received the most versatile toolboxes so far. Do you think we will see the same sort of pattern going forward where the elite armies have an expanded toolbox but stick to their wheel house and the "horde" armies end up with more expansive big red "snap-on" cases of tools.

Hive Fleet Cobra Kai will probably stay a mix. I don't have a loyalty to any one fleet in particular. I feel like each fleet has something to offer depending on how you want to play them. I wrote[URL="http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/11/40k-tyranids-adapt-overcome.html"] an article explaining[/URL] the idea that you can pretty much do what you want with this book as it does have a pretty big tool box - not as big as others, but it's diverse.
Plus, I collect models and enjoy the hobby side almost as much as the playing side. So I like to build and paint lots of different things which is great for experimenting with different lists. I don't get to play in tournaments as much as I used to either so the motivation to just build one type of list and stick with it just isn't there any more.

Overtime I'll probably gravitate toward a specific play style or list. At that point, I might try to make a tournament level list and really streamline and practice with it...That way if anyone around the office starts to get too hubrisy I can take them down a peg...(pfft, says the guy who lost today).

I think Abe had a pretty good point about how armies that traditionally don't have allies (most xenos armies) might have to have a better toolbox than ones that have a deep ally pool (Imperium armies). We've talked a lot about that subject on the front page from the Imperial Perspective:
[url]http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/09/40k-soup-lists-are-soup-er-fluffy.html[/url]
[url]http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/09/goatboys-40k-thoughts-meet-imperium-soup-armies.html[/url]
[url]http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/07/the-keyword-is-op.html[/url]

As far as elite vs horde armies and the pattern moving forward - I think GW is going to keep creating books with 5-7 sub factions and 20+ stratagems. Along with 10+ relics for each army, warlord traits, and psychic powers I feel like folks are going to be overwhelmed with tactical toolbox options.
Abe might disagree with the IG Stratagems but they got Orders to help out with those so I don't feel too bad for them (even if they comparatively don't have the best stratagems overall - on the whole, they are doing just fine).

Right now, 8th is feeling pretty good overall. I will be glad to see everyone get a full Codex at some point. I really liked the short period of time where everyone had only an Index...it felt even, if only for a short while.

[Icendar]

Awesome wrap-up, guys.

I agree with Adam's first post here. Full credit to JR. He capitalized on a bit of early luck and played the rest of the game really well. That said, I really want to see a nid list from Adam where the goal is not simply to show off units in a new book. There's some real nastiness across the board for nids. I want to see what you come up with when the gloves are off, man.


I wouldn't believe the "leaks" about who gets what in Chapter Approved until the book is previewed on the Warhammer Community site, tbh. Sure, you can say what might be in there and what should be in there but what I've seen looks more like wishlisting.

As to Astra Militarum as they stand now; do people really think they got a bad lot of strats? I'd agree that a lot of the actual CP stratagems aren't the best, but I consider all their Orders to be extra strats they get for free, added to which they comparatively get so many CP's anyway so you can afford to go a bit nuts with using them, especially toward the pointy end of the game. Edit: in fact, the most I've seen ppl saying about how hard-done-by the poor Imperial Guard are is the nerf to the Commissar/Conscript BS that we used to have. In games I've seen, the Guard are doing very well for themselves indeed, all across the board.

...I collect models and enjoy the hobby side almost as much as the playing side.

[Bigred]

Rules come and go...

If you build your army with the rule of cool and you love the look of your models - you will always make it through games with a smile - come hell or high water.