Should I stay or should I go now? - The EU Referendum Thread

[grimmas]

again, Britain will still be paying and still open to free movement even after the actual exit. because that is the only way to access the single market. two central pillars that the Leave campaign were won on, but they will never actually happen anyway, and Leave admitted as much first thing Friday.

If we become part of the EEA as is then this is true. But I think CG was referring to the fact until the negotiations surrounding article 50 are concluded (or two years which ever is sooner) we will still very much be a full away memeber.

[Kirsten]

indeed so.

[grimmas]

I'm not sure which bit of 'many of reasons people voted Leave have now been revealed as utter lies' it is your struggling with here?

Control of borders? LIE. We'll be in the Single Market, so those stay.

£350,000,000 a week into the NHS instead of Brussels? LIE! Farage admitted it. Hannah admitted it. Iain Duncan Smith has admitted it - though of course they're all claiming 'we never said that...'

That to me is bloody good reason to consider a second referendum. Leave is a one way street. This isn't like a General Election where the Government has to at least try to make good on its manifesto, lest they lose ground and ultimately get kicked out five years later.

If there is widespread dissent amongst Leave at the outright lies they were sold, we must have another referendum on it.

Because you need an actual legal reason.

[Kirsten]

personally I say don't have another referendum, just don't do it. there is no good reason to leave, the result isn't binding. it is a terrible idea, the Leave campaign lied through their teeth, forget the whole thing.

[CoffeeGrunt]

And there's the suggestion postal votes for citizens abroad never got to them....

Mine never got to me, so I would not be remotely surprised.

[grimmas]

personally I say don't have another referendum, just don't do it. there is no good reason to leave, the result isn't binding. it is a terrible idea, the Leave campaign lied through their teeth, forget the whole thing.

Well that is a different thing entirely and I believe something parliament is entirely allowed to do, questionable but they certainly could, it also wouldn't solve the cause of the whole thing either.

[Charon]

We shall see but their rules state something very different to your assertions.

It's called a negotiation they want things from us we want things from them that's how it goes..

So now it's bad if we stay longer, I thought you just said it was better for us to stay a bit longer. Are you just arguing for the sake of it?

You seem to confuse a lot here.
The negotiation is pretty much one sided. YOU want something from the EU. Not the other way round. National pride aside you have surprisingly little to offer. You need the european market.
USA made very clear that you will have to negotiate other terms with them if you want to trade, which may take up to 10y.
Europe will make very clear (as so far France, Germany, Austria and Netherlands) that they wont allow you to take part in the inner european market before you did not negotiate new terms (like norway or switzerland).

It is bad for you to stay longer politically. Your Gov. is under pressure. It is bad for you to leave asap econmically. Dont mix that up.

And dont be fooled. A lot of Europeans really dont want to see you suffer. But they also think you have to suffer as much as possible to stop crazy righ-wing nationalist nutjobs in their own countries with basically the same agenda and "arguments".

Just think about this: I have heard a lot from GB citizens that consider the EU to be run by the Germans and doing everything germay wants. If you ask the same right-wing nutjobs in germany, they will tell you that the EU is run by GB while the USA is pulling GBs strings.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Bidders for Tata Steel in Wales are pulling out due to the uncertainty post-Brexit of how the UK's relationship with the Single Market will go:
[URL="http://www.southwales-eveningpost.co.uk/tata-steel-bidders-get-cold-feet-over-brexit/story-29443384-detail/story.html#ixzz4CbqbziYS"]http://www.southwales-eveningpost.co.uk/tata-steel-bidders-get-cold-feet-over-brexit/story-29443384-detail/story.html#ixzz4CbqbziYS[/URL]

This sort of thing is the real casualty, the uncertainty is the real danger here. The government needs to put a plan together and act decisively so that investors know where they stand. If they keep dragging their feet, then investors will simply fear the worst and not invest in moving over to here, or expanding operations in our country. London is in a pretty similar situation given that it operates as a middle man for external countries to access the Single Market, and has to maintain that ability to access it otherwise it'll lose to Paris, Berlin, or other established financial sectors.

[eldargal]

personally I say don't have another referendum, just don't do it. there is no good reason to leave, the result isn't binding. it is a terrible idea, the Leave campaign lied through their teeth, forget the whole thing.

Agreed. The referendum isn't binding anyway.

[grimmas]

You seem to confuse a lot here.
The negotiation is pretty much one sided. YOU want something from the EU. Not the other way round. National pride aside you have surprisingly little to offer. You need the european market.
USA made very clear that you will have to negotiate other terms with them if you want to trade, which may take up to 10y.
Europe will make very clear (as so far France, Germany, Austria and Netherlands) that they wont allow you to take part in the inner european market before you did not negotiate new terms (like norway or switzerland).

It is bad for you to stay longer politically. Your Gov. is under pressure. It is bad for you to leave asap econmically. Dont mix that up.

And dont be fooled. A lot of Europeans really dont want to see you suffer. But they also think you have to suffer as much as possible to stop crazy righ-wing nationalist nutjobs in their own countries with basically the same agenda and "arguments".

Just think about this: I have heard a lot from GB citizens that consider the EU to be run by the Germans and doing everything germay wants. If you ask the same right-wing nutjobs in germany, they will tell you that the EU is run by GB while the USA is pulling GBs strings.

I guess you've missed the bits where Germany said they wanted us to keep buying all the stuff they made then and where Spain wants to keep all those British Expats and tourists spending money in Spain.

But this is old ground and nothing we haven't covered before.