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  1. #101

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    Aye, and they'll be available online (I'm presuming free, but don't quote me on that)
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  2. #102

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    "These veteran Space Marines will make great champions for any Space Marine army!
    11x individual Space Marine Veteran Champions (equivalent to approximately £ 215 / € 275 retail normally) "

    That right there? Bollocks.

    First of all, it's stupid that independent characters cost $30 these days, especially for mono-pose models that have no options.

    But then they double down on the stupid by saying that since you can use this SQUAD as character models, somehow their value is now equivalent to $330?

    No. No, no, no.

    First of all, it's a board game, and they call it such. Sure, you can use the board game pieces in 40K, once they print rules, with limited range of use for the board game pieces. But at the end of the day, this isn't being billed as a 40K expansion box like Bloodstorm or Stormclaw, it's being marketed as a board game, which means it should be priced as a board game, and $165 is laughably stupid.

    People defend that awful price for a board game by talking about how much the board game pieces would cost under a really stupid pricing scheme.

    And just claiming "These squad members would make nice independent characters, therefore their value is the same as overpriced independent characters" would be ridiculous even if they weren't board game pieces. I've converted a bunch of nice looking character models from squad boxes (Space Wolves, Orks, every character in my Ogre Kingdoms army, etc.), that doesn't suddenly make a Grey Hunter worth $30 or an individual Ogre worth $50.

    If people want to buy the box, that's their call. But going along with this farce of claiming there's "great value" is ridiculous, and just helps push the hobby further and further into the range of being unaffordable for newer entrants. The few items designed to get people in for a reasonable cost are almost immediately counteracted the moment people see the basic price for stuff, and how much they'd need to play. And seeing a board game - a board game, of all things! - retailing for $165 is enough to give any sensible person sticker shock and send them looking to someone else's products (where they could get multiple board games, even including a larger game like Imperial Assault, Twilight Imperium, or even Forbidden Stars).

    But yeah, they are great looking board game pieces, though.

    It'll be nice if - *if*, because there's no hard info yet - they make actual stand-alone Genestealer Cult releases and a supplement for them (preferably print, at least as an option).

    Rules for using board game pieces in a miniatures game don't count (and certainly don't magically increase the value of the board game pieces).

  3. #103

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    Oh give it a rest Erik.

    Don't wanna buy it? No problem.

    But this endless 'yeah....but' is getting increasingly tiresome.

    It's £100.00. Take it or leave it. Doesn't matter to anyone else which. The models are the same GW quality, and we'd expect to pay £15-£18 for character sculpts alone. Let's take the lowest of those, yeah? £165 just in Marines, then you've got the Squealers, and the game itself.

    So for avoidance of doubt - don't wanna buy it, no problem. Don't buy it. But please don't tell people it's objectively poor value when it's clearly not.
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  4. #104

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    It's £2 per model, plus board and bits, that's reasonable by GW standards.
    Ask not the EldarGal a question, for she will give you three answers, all of which are puns and terrifying to know. Back off man, I'm a feminist. Ia! Ia! Gloppal Snode!

  5. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Mystery View Post
    It's £100.00. Take it or leave it. Doesn't matter to anyone else which. The models are the same GW quality, and we'd expect to pay £15-£18 for character sculpts alone. Let's take the lowest of those, yeah? £165 just in Marines, then you've got the Squealers, and the game itself.
    BOLLOCKS.

    This kind of dishonesty is what's ruining the Games Workshop portion of the hobby. You might expect to pay silly amounts for character models (though it shouldn't be acceptable), but these guys are a SQUAD. Just because the SQUAD is made of named characters doesn't make them suddenly "worth" more. The Last Chancers are a SQUAD of twelve named characters, and they cost $35, despite being produced in lower production runs with more expensive materials, proving that a SQUAD of named characters created by GW shouldn't be considered as something that is "worth" $330.

    Try packaging that squad for $330. YOU might buy it, because you think anyone who speaks out against this madness is somehow vehemently anti-GW. Sensible people would laugh at how stupid that is. Yet here you are claiming that's a reasonable price to charge for a squad. Seriously?

    If you like the game, fine. Cool! The game pieces look awesome, the game might be fun.

    But the moment you claim that the game pieces are magically worth more through some arbitrary reasoning that ignores all sense and logic, you are being intellectually dishonest, and helping to further damage the hobby by promoting the sense that things should be priced so high that most people scoff at it.

    And, again, anyone with a reasonable mind would scoff at a $330 squad. Only people with a bunch of money and an unquestioning love for GW, or people lacking in cognitive function, would actually accept the idea of a $330 squad. Nothing you say will change the reality that it's a bollocks argument designed to tell you that these board game pieces are somehow worth more than their weight in gold, and defending that argument just makes you silly (and makes you more harmful to GW than those of us pointing out how ridiculous it is ever could be).

  6. #106

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    Once did an all metal Savage Orc army.

    And I see you've switch from saying the game is poor value for money, changing up your complaint point. Something you managed to do in your previous post without any input.

    Tell me. Which is it?

    Option one?

    Quote Originally Posted by You, just above
    First of all, it's a board game, and they call it such. Sure, you can use the board game pieces in 40K, once they print rules, with limited range of use for the board game pieces. But at the end of the day, this isn't being billed as a 40K expansion box like Bloodstorm or Stormclaw, it's being marketed as a board game, which means it should be priced as a board game, and $165 is laughably stupid.
    Or option two?

    Quote Originally Posted by You, again just above
    It'll be nice if - *if*, because there's no hard info yet - they make actual stand-alone Genestealer Cult releases and a supplement for them (preferably print, at least as an option).
    Option One

    Quote Originally Posted by You, just above
    First of all, it's a board game, and they call it such. Sure, you can use the board game pieces in 40K, once they print rules, with limited range of use for the board game pieces. But at the end of the day, this isn't being billed as a 40K expansion box like Bloodstorm or Stormclaw, it's being marketed as a board game, which means it should be priced as a board game, and $165 is laughably stupid.
    Or option two?

    Quote Originally Posted by You, again just above
    It'll be nice if - *if*, because there's no hard info yet - they make actual stand-alone Genestealer Cult releases and a supplement for them (preferably print, at least as an option).
    Do we consider the game just on it's own cost and merits, or do we consider the game on it's cost and the flexibility of it's components to be fielded in a different game?

    Option One, or Option Two.

    And again for avoidance of doubt....if you don' think it offers sufficient value for money - that's cool. Your call. But value is an entirely subjective thing.
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  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by eldargal View Post
    It's £2 per model, plus board and bits, that's reasonable by GW standards.
    Perhaps, though that still feels a bit off after Betrayal at Calth, and especially after Bloodstorm (though that one was perhaps a bit much in terms of value).

    If you put the argument *that* way, though, it's very acceptable. That's a good argument, and quite valid.

    The "a squad of Space Marines is worth $330 USD because they're named models" is a false argument, though, and people going along with that should feel bad.

    Yours? Totally valid. I'm cool with that way of looking at things.

    Still... as a board game, it's too much. Mainly because board games should be done like they used to make them, as a means of drawing new players to the games. Space Hulk (original), Space Crusade, Tyranid Attack, HeroQuest, those were solid games with nice pieces, sold at a very reasonable price in hobby and toy stores. People saw them, got them, found out there's more to get into, and it brought in a new customer. That's what they should be producing board games as. Right now, it feels more like they're being designed to push bundles of figures to existing customers, who will then reason the price in their minds as being a "bargain" compared to the prices they're used to paying. That *might* do some good for customer retention, but trying to push these games in other stores isn't likely to work so well, so the likelihood of new customers is kind of minor.

    Heck, I like Stealer Cults, I like the concept of Space Hulk style games, I'll probably still get the game when I can. But it doesn't mean that I think the price as a board game is good (or even as much of a "bargain" after getting stuff like Stormclaw, Blood/Deathstorm/whatever the BA/Nids one was, etc.). Even if I get it, though, that doesn't mean in any way I have to endorse the jaw-dropping stupidity it takes to claim the squad of Marines is a $330 retail value.

    Your argument, though? Totally valid and a good argument.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Mystery View Post
    Do we consider the game just on it's own cost and merits, or do we consider the game on it's cost and the flexibility of it's components to be fielded in a different game?
    It's marketed as a board game, so you consider it as a board game.

    Change it to a 40K release marketed as such, and it's different.

    I specifically noted stand-alone GC releases, as in "stuff released for 40K and not as part of a board game," would be nice. I'm not sure how you confused that to mean something in support of considering board game pieces to be anything but?

    There's a huge difference between a board game or a 40K expansion. Board games should be more accessible to the general public, used as a way to draw in new players. 40K expansions are items you can charge more for because you're selling to an existing customer base who you've already (theoretically, though not really in practice, we're seeing) conditioned to accept certain price ranges. But that would also mean it'd have to come packaged with the 40K rules... which would then mean they couldn't stuff them in their sales flyers and convince people to drop $8 more on a pair of sales flyers. I'll give them credit if they put the rules up online for free, but doesn't change that the game is a separate board game, not a 40K expansion, so all discussion of prices should be considering the price for a board game and what the board game market would find palatable.

  8. #108

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    Marketing BS is marketing BS. I'm not sure I'm going to get it myself, I like genestealer cults and all but its not a priority and I'm annoyed by the lack of female cultists. But its not bad value for money, when the average plastic troop model from GW range in price from 1.8-2.4 pounds apiece.
    Ask not the EldarGal a question, for she will give you three answers, all of which are puns and terrifying to know. Back off man, I'm a feminist. Ia! Ia! Gloppal Snode!

  9. #109

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    There's "marketing BS" and then there's just so much BS it makes you actually shout it out loud, which I did the first time I read that.

    What offends me more is when people actually parrot the BS as if it's a valid point.

    Again, *your* point is valid.

    The claim about character models and stuff? Not even remotely valid.

  10. #110
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    Probaby won't get it myself, RL circumstances mean I have to be more choosier, but it's still good to see the two new forces in the game. Allthough I agree with Eldargal's criciticm, the models do look very good I think. Hopefully they will do multipart variants later this year. I wonder what new faction will be next? Exodites? Arbites? Demiurg?
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