The Force Awakens - Spoilerific Discussion.

[Mr Mystery]

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See, I like the feel of the First Order - they're a good proxy for Neo-****s - they're desperate to live up to their poorly chosen idols, and fond of ignoring history.

And Hux's speech was suitably spittle flecked, and when you look at their officers, there's barely any amongst their number old enough to shave - they're largely just kids. This to me suggests that they've not been around all that long as a power, but have instead been slowly building their power base up in secret.

Starkiller Base? I don't believe for a second that the First Order built that. No way. I think it's another of The Empire's Super-Weapons they discovered raiding Imperial Archives (which we know they have access to, hence their partial copy of the map to Skywalker). Why claim they built it? What better way to indoctrinate the impressionable Youth than claiming they did all this - look how organised a powerful we are. We certainly didn't just sort of find it. Not us. Oh no.

Hell, going on the comics issued as part of Journey To The Force Awakens, it could be Snoke received a post-mortem messenger Droid from Palpatine, giving him access to the base.

And from what we know of The Empire under Palpatine, the well known existence of the Death Stars might well have been a ruse - something to terrify the locals with and focus the Rebellion's attentions, whilst the Starkiller, you're true super-weapon able to destroy entire Solar Systems is kept secret until it's truly needed.

They really have knocked it out of the park with this film. So much I'm desperate to know, and I don't care if it's an 18 month wait, or having to buy more books - I will find it all out!

[Tyrendian]

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hmmm... for me, the movie kind of never managed to create any real threat to the good guys, because of how incompetent I percieved the majority of the baddies' leadership to be... Especially when I compare the assault on Starkiller Base to the endings for both IV and VI, it just felt like "yeah, I know this is gonna work... get it over with...", in a large part because neither did the movie establish anything about the defenses of Starkiller Base, nor did any of those involved seem particularly worried about their chances of success. Both Death Star attacks were set up to be acts of total desperation (well the second one turned into one once the Imps sprung their traps), while the new one kind of had a sense of routine to it that for me just failed to create any suspense. And in general there were a few too many "I so knew that was coming" moments and not enough "What the heck didn't see that one coming", which is partly due to all the hommages...

[Charistoph]

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hmmm... for me, the movie kind of never managed to create any real threat to the good guys, because of how incompetent I percieved the majority of the baddies' leadership to be... Especially when I compare the assault on Starkiller Base to the endings for both IV and VI, it just felt like "yeah, I know this is gonna work... get it over with...", in a large part because neither did the movie establish anything about the defenses of Starkiller Base, nor did any of those involved seem particularly worried about their chances of success. Both Death Star attacks were set up to be acts of total desperation (well the second one turned into one once the Imps sprung their traps), while the new one kind of had a sense of routine to it that for me just failed to create any suspense. And in general there were a few too many "I so knew that was coming" moments and not enough "What the heck didn't see that one coming", which is partly due to all the hommages...

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When you've spent your lifetime facing the ridiculously impossible and succeeding to be a sore in their side, the crazy becomes routine. And let's just say Po has all the arrogance of any Correllian fighter pilot to make a lot of it routine like many a Jedi did in the Clone Wars.

[CoffeeGrunt]

This theme tho:

[Erik Setzer]

Oscar Isaac on Poe & Finn's relationship:

My friend keeps swearing Poe is gay. Since he himself is gay, I tend to trust his "instincts" on that more than my own... but I wouldn't blame him if he was just hoping.

The weekend before the movie opened, there was a Star Wars event at the central park in town, lots of people turning up, music, all kinds of stuff, but also vendors. There was an artist selling his work, and one of his images was Poe posing on the ladder of his X-Wing, really cool piece. The artist said he had a serious "crush" for Poe... while his wife was sitting there, seemingly amused by that.

[Erik Setzer]

Leave your tortured enemy as a cruel reminder of what crossing you entails, and make sure some survive to spread the tale. I don't think Disney will ever go that far,

SPOILERS for the Darth Vader Annual #1 comic following...

In the Darth Vader Annual, Vader goes to a planet that isn't doing its due for the Empire (and seems to be thinking rebellious thoughts). He has his assassin droids (basically evil versions of C-3PO and R2-D2, which is awesome) sneak into the king's throne room and slaughter everyone there, while the king's daughter was trying to trick Vader into being in a shaft that floods with molten metal (sacrificing herself, too). Vader escapes, because he's freaking Vader*, and takes the last remaining member of the royal family to see the dead king and her dead siblings and royal court, then hands her a box he'd intended for the king: It has a chunk of rock in it, which Vader informs her is all that's left of Alderaan, a symbol of what happens to planets that think to defy the Empire.

So Disney kind of went there, a bit. And I think that'd be effective.



*Vader is seriously such a badass in the comics. In the Vader Down crossover, he takes out multiple squadrons by himself (including turning torpedoes back at the guys who launched them at one point), a small army sent to capture him (activating all their thermal detonators at once), and continues to take out anything they throw at him. Luke's able to track where Vader is by watching the explosions from a distance. It really sets him as being this serious threat that he's supposed to be.

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When you've spent your lifetime facing the ridiculously impossible and succeeding to be a sore in their side, the crazy becomes routine. And let's just say Po has all the arrogance of any Correllian fighter pilot to make a lot of it routine like many a Jedi did in the Clone Wars.

That's how I felt about it, especially with Leia leading them. She was around for those hopeless fights where they kept besting the Empire (Yavin, Hoth, and Endor were all embarrassingly bad defeats for the Empire). Her presence would help lift people. Then toss in the guys like Poe, who have an attitude of "I know I'm the best, I can get this done, we all can!"

[Mud Duck]

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Things I liked: Rey and Finn, Loved the characters, great acting, and I wonder and pray that they will flesh out their stories and characters more in the next movies.
Maz? Replacement Yoda think she is, and without the speech impediment Very nice CGI and motion capture, as well as well acted.
Han Solo; Harison Ford looked like he was having fun, and finally got what he wanted after, what? 30 years?
The bit with Chewie and the Doctor, LOL.

Things I didn't like: No BAD guy, I think that closest was Phasma, but she wasn't on screen long enough. Darth Emo;really? I really would have liked to see him be EVIL and not just evil. Strangely, I did like that he didn't kill the messenger, as it is hard to get your minions to tell you that the plan has gone pear shaped if you kill the ones that are relaying the bad news. Grand Mott Ginger, like Mystery stated, too young/new to the whole evil thing to get it right and proper.
Stormtroopers; You've been a soldier literally your whole life, and you still can not dress ranks properly? First weeks of boot camp people! Look at the scene in RotJ when the Emperor comes aboard the Death Star, that is how ranks of Troopers should look, not the playing at solders look in this movie.
Poe; Too over the top.
Dogfights; Poe would have ripped the wings off his X-wing a half a dozen times trying some of those turns, and if that didn't kill him the G-forces or him passing out do to lack of blood to the brain would have. Plus the number of Ties that he shot down seemed too much/too fast. Yes, he is a ace pilot, but come on, really? JJ should really start to watch how real planes fly and fight, and bring that into the movie more.
Assault craft/drop pods; Standing up, untetered, with weapons in hand? We are trying to have someone survive to the planet right? One bank and there's a broken neck and a dropped blaster, add evasive maneuvers and your going to just have pour whatevers left in the hold onto the battlefield and that's if one of the blasters doesn't go off and hit something important, say the pilot.

Odd thoughts. Why didn't they target the Resistances base first? "Here look. We just wiped out a major military power in one shot. Submit or your next."
Why didn't anyone think to turn the piece of map puzzle around in the first place. Also that looked like a large piece of the universe there, how can you not find the right system by counting the number of, say planets in that system and the systems around it and matching those numbers up to a map. All that processing power and they can not figger out a map?
Why do Bad Guys and their architects seem to have a phobia of hand/guard rails?
How is there any natural life, trees, birds, etc. on the Star Eater? That level of 'reconstruction' one would think would killed the world. No more planetary core, no more radiation belts, no more gravity, no more atmosphere, etc. Have to give to the builders for one thing.

Oh and Stormtrooper armor filters out smoke but not poisonous gas? WWWHHHHAAAATTTTTT? headdesk.

[Erik Setzer]

Some of those concerns I could probably answer with some "realistic" answer... but we're watching a space fairy tale. Please go watch the original movies with that picky of an eye. They all fall apart horribly. So does that make you dislike those films? If you can overlook that stuff with those films, why is it that suddenly we expect Star Wars to be ultra-realistic?

Okay, let's go ultra-realistic: No more lightsabers. Seriously, how can we explain those with our current science? We can't. Oh, it doesn't matter they've had over 25,000 years to work on them in the Star Wars universe.

Just taking the Poe fight, for an example: Aside from "the rule of cool," it's simple enough to imagine that an advanced X-Wing would use some variant of the standard artificial gravity generators found on all kinds of starships to help keep the pilot in place and allow for more maneuverable flying without compromising the health of the pilot. They might also have improved the maneuvering, and Poe could be making use of the repulsorlifts and other tricks on the fighter without us realizing it (because explaining all of that would be boring). Plus we don't know the density of the planet's atmosphere.

But geez, why are we discussing the realism of a series that started off with a farm boy with no military training hopping in an expensive piece of military equipment he'd never flown and accurately firing torpedoes that flip 90 degrees to go straight down a shaft that should be forcing air out and should be covered to begin with and not lead straight to the center of the 100 mile wide starship with an impractical superweapon; with the evil forces led by a guy who'd had all four limbs cut off, set on fire, entire body burned beyond what any body could sustain... Oh, and how are the Stormtroopers always missing? In one scene they're shooting at a pair of people who are literally standing in the exact same place, all they have to do is train their fire on that spot. And what is the purpose of the Dianoga? How does anyone get around that 100 mile ship, given that even on a highway it'd take over an hour to get from one side to the other? Are the hangars just that close to the bridge? Wouldn't the crewmen be fried by that giant planet-destroying laser passing through the tunnel they're standing in? Why do the Rebels have so many pilots with pilot gear and not enough fighters? How did Han not show up on the radar of Vader and his wingmen? How does Vader's TIE have hyperdrive? How does hyperdrive break the laws surrounding light speed? And Han says the Falcon only goes "point five past light speed," so does that mean 1.5 times light speed? Even so, it'd take years to get from one system to another, not hours.

I could go on and on. For some reason, people will wave that away with Episodes 4-6 (and that's just Ep 4, I could have gone nuts with the others), but act like Episode VII should be "scientifically accurate" and all as far as our understanding of science (which doesn't include real starships, or laser weapons, or light swords, or aliens, etc., etc., etc.).

As for the striking the Republic before the Resistance: The Resistance didn't have a military. The Republic's military was small, but it did have one, so it's more of a military target. It also sends a lot bigger message to take out, say, Washington, D.C. or London, than some town that holds the rebel army America and/or England is financing to fight a dictator. (Seriously, did *anyone* pay attention to Hux's speech?)

[Lexington]

*Vader is seriously such a badass in the comics. In the Vader Down crossover, he takes out multiple squadrons by himself (including turning torpedoes back at the guys who launched them at one point), a small army sent to capture him (activating all their thermal detonators at once), and continues to take out anything they throw at him. Luke's able to track where Vader is by watching the explosions from a distance. It really sets him as being this serious threat that he's supposed to be.

I'm only so much of a Star Wars fan, overall, but...really? I'm pretty sure that nowhere in the OT is Vader ever portrayed as superpowered godmode murder-warrior. Having him jet across the galaxy killing armies feels almost as out-of-place as Yoda zipping around with a lightsaber.

[eldargal]

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Remember they do have artificial gravity so g-forces not necessarily something they have to woryr about.

They didn't go after Resistance base first because their t arget was the political capital opf the New Republic, Hosnian Prime, which is the one they blew up. Hux actually says if they take out the New Republic then the Resistance won't be a threat, of course there is a whole galaxy wort of New Republic left untouched now that their starkiller base got blowed up so in hindsight you could argue it was the wrong decision lol.

I think Ren was actually much better than just another Vader clone, he is conflicted but he chose evil and murdered his father, I mean yes he as a bit whiny but that's a family trait for Skywalker men lol and Han wasn't that much less whiny than Luke to be honest.

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I'm only so much of a Star Wars fan, overall, but...really? I'm pretty sure that nowhere in the OT is Vader ever portrayed as superpowered godmode murder-warrior. Having him jet across the galaxy killing armies feels almost as out-of-place as Yoda zipping around with a lightsaber.

He's supposed to be Palpatine's most feared enforcers, able to cause entire worlds to abandon resistance to the Empire just by being there so he should be a complete badass. The comics are really, really good.