CSM Wishlist

[CrossbowSniper]

What would you like to see in the new Chaos Space Marine codex if/when it comes out?

I'd love to see some devoted vehicles. Not making them daemons, but something like a mark with specific rules for vehicles like this:

Vehicle of Khorne: +25pts
Vehicle counts as fast. If the vehicle is a walker, it may run and charge in the same turn.

Vehicle of Nurgle: +30pts
Vehicle gains Shrouded

Vehicle of Slaanesh: +20pts
Vehicle may fire its weapons at different targets.

Vehicle of Tzeentch: +45pts
Add 1 to the strength of all the vehicle's weapons.

Not really definitive, but I would love to see something similar to this. Just make it so it can't also be applied to the daemon engines (they can just be upgraded to daemons of (God) instead) and I think it's a fun idea

[Mr Mystery]

Veteran Cult Troops

I'm no Chaos player myself (at least, not yet. Calth may change things somewhat) but it really strikes me as pants that there is currently no delineation on the board between say, a Khorne Berzerker, and a World Eaters Berzerker.

Your more Vanilla Berzerker is someone who has fallen to Khorne and gone a bit chicken oriental in the head.

A World Eater Berzerker? Fighting for millennia, or at least during the Heresy, and has Butchers Nails driving them even further into a frenzy.

Same goes for the other Cult troops. Have your basic or garden variety as Troops options, and your Traitor Legionnaires (very different to modern Space Marines) as your Elites. Slaanesh with better weapons (they have the originals, after all), Thousand Sons with more potent Sorcerors (they've got good over the millennia. You can tell, because they still have their own soul), Plague Marines more infectious (same diseases, but with millennia of co-evolution with one another..mmm....virulent!) and Berzerkers as above.

Cultists slot buffed

Give them the option of being lead by a Dark Apostle. Purely a thematic request. Have their unit organisation closer to IG - so potential for a single squad, or a 'command squad' lead by a Dark Apostle, and additional Brotherhoods.

Veterans of the Long War

As is, but also pick from a list of USR. They've been doing this for a long, long time. A very long, long time. Show it.

Enmity Rules

To offset the suggested Veteran Legionnaire rules. World Eaters and Emperor's Children should not get on. Reflect this. It lets those who want a hotch-potch force have some background rules to consider, and helps to encourage and reward mono-theistic forces

Steal from the Cult Mechanicus!

Dunno if you've read it, but the Canticles of the Omnissiah get better the more units you have on the board. Something similar, but for Gods and their followers. Again, this helps to encourage and reward mono-theistic forces, without necessarily punishing mixed god forces.

[Charistoph]

I'll put it as simply as I can.

Legion Traits for Black Legion, Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Alpha Legion, Fallen, Word Bearers, and Renegades.

No Veteran Cult Troops. Now, before you get excited over this concept, let me possibly assuage you with this. Daemonkin codices should have the Veteran Cult Troops and the Legion Traits for the 4 Cult Armies. Plague Terminators should be in Nurgle Daemonkin. Dust Havoks should be in Tzeentch Daemonkin. Noise Hellbrutes should be in Slaanesh Daemonkin. And so on. The current Cult units should be kept (except perhaps Thousand Sons) as is.

There should be Brotherhood of Sorcerer units, though this may be better reserved for Tzeentch Daemonkin, they would be a good possible replacement for Tzeentch Cult Units, except seeing access to Nurgle or Slaanesh options would still be nice.

More Daemon Engines would be nice, but if we're going that way, allow for corrupted Loyalist modified gear to be an option. Razorbacks, Drop Pods, Redeemers, Hunters, Stalkers, Whirlwinds, etc, should be available, even if with slightly different gear (ex: Reaper Launcher being in place of Assault Cannons, Combi-bolters for Storm Bolters, etc.)

While I think a review of the 3.5 Edition is in proper order, it is not quite how the armies are set up right now, but we can get close without following the ridiculous Iron Warriors path, either.

[daboarder]

Legion warband rules
Legion warband rules
Legion warband rules
Legion warband rules
Legion warband rules
Legion warband rules

Honestly, this is stated every time these threads come up and if GW actually did market research theyd have done it by now. I mean not only is it ridiculous that there is more variation between loyalist codex adherents. Its also ridiculous that the armies that were never forced to take up said codex all opperate the same.

Throw in the fact that warbands range in size and organization from a couple of CSMs and cultists to rivaling the legions of old its just silly

[grimmas]

Legion Rules

In fact a proper differentiation between Legion Units (think Chosen with Legion specific USRs) and more recent Traitors ("ordinary" CSMs)

I'd like to see the Codex be more Marines and less Dinobots, it is supposed to be Codex Chaos Space Marines not Codex Dark Mechanicus which it effectively is at the moment.

Chain axes being a str bonus and shred rather than having an ap bonus (just a personal bugbear chain weapons do lots of damage against flesh they aren't better at penetrating armour) and being available to more more units.

Power of the machine spirit it or some suitably Chaosy equivalent on Land Raiders.

A plastic Obliterator/Mutilator set would be nice.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

Legion tactics no more complex than the ones in Codex Marines.
With the "ultramarines" equiv being 'renegades' and the others being for the various main factions, including Red Corsairs obviously.
Old Legions being represented by formations, whichbwhen rolled together with a demi-company esque formation make a Chaos Warband.
That's my first instinct anyway.
And models wise I'd like cult troops redone (with terminator and character upgrade bits on the sprues) and undivided chosen.
Maybe a multikit obliterator and mutilator box that makes them Centurion sized.
A new dinobot, something that fills the power gap between Maulerfiend and the Lord 'O Skulls.
That sounds good.

[Mr Mystery]

And a shout out for the frankly superb list in IA:13.

I'll never get bored or be done with praising it. So many options, precious little off the table.

Only downside is that you really need to plan your army in your head, write your list, then set about procuring the models. Kind of the opposite to my usual 'buy the precious things, then write a list' approach.

[Lexington]

Cult Terminators. That's my one big wish from a unit standpoint. Not Khorne-marked Terminators, but actual friggin' Berzerkers in Terminator Armor.

Overall, though, I wish the book weren't so...punishing. There's so much in the Codex that makes you feel like you have no control of the army, and usually with very little benefit. Piddly Aspiring Champions must Challenge everything from Terminator Captains to Carnifexes, all for the dubious privilege of rolling on a chart that might get you a +1 BS bonus. Vehicles eat passengers to regain a Hull Point they may not even need, and is almost never crucial anyway. Et cetera, et cetera. This isn't a restriction that holds back the tremendous power of the book - almost everything in the book is strictly worse than any Imperial counterpart - it's just another downside to playing an army that feels like a tertiary priority, at best, to the Studio.

I love the idea of Chaos giving the player a higher risk/reward threshold than most books, representing the raw-but-fickle power of Chaos, but the current setup forces a ton of risk for next to no reward.

In fact a proper differentiation between Legion Units (think Chosen with Legion specific USRs) and more recent Traitors ("ordinary" CSMs)

Between VotLW and Chosen, I feel like the current Codex setup already does this pretty well. It might not be executed well on the object level - VotLW is often overpriced, I'd say, and Chosen just plain suck - but the structure's fine, IMO.

[Mr Mystery]

Cult Terminators would be ace, and I'd like to see those from Horus Heresy adopted, because they look ace! Not even bothered if they're much cop or not. They look ace.

And they need to work on the Marks. I've found them a wee bit bland ever since 6th Ed Warhammer (which had ace ones)

Again, as a non-Chaos player to me there's nothing wrong with the book as a Codex. As with most it has some ace units, some perfectly fine units, and some you really need to work hard with to get them pulling their weight. But.....it doesn't feel like a Chaos book. It feels too regimented.

Chaos desperately needs a solid variety of Formations. Through those, your central list can be a general list - the Formations bring the real goodies. I know there's a lot of jealousy out there for the toys Astartes get in that regard, and rightly so (I got Kauyon yesterday, dear lord White Scars and Raven Guard have some filth!).

I'd love to see Chaos Formations represent individual Warbands of Chaos Marines, Chaos Cults and Cultist Marines.

That done, you're getting closer to my feel of Chaos - relatively few large, cohesive forces. Instead lots of almost Piratical Warbands who can when necessary operate together.

Then, just as Kauyon has done for White Scars and Raven Guard, specific Legions get additional ones in campaign books.

[Mr.Gold]

I like the Idea of Mr Mystery with Cult Mechanicus Canticles Equivelent - somthing that would reward fluffy play...
also I think that a large portion of the book should include some 30k things, not necessarrily massive tanks but things like the option to have Vulkite Blasters/Culverns as a special weaon representing the traitor marines dating back to the HH, but not having more things like whirlwinds and land speeders.
Daemon Princes that can be Undivided.
better psychic tables (especially for Tzeentch).
the idea of formation representing warbands of distinct types of traitors and thus giving a benefit is also a good one however there would need to be some smaller formations e.g. 2-3 units at min so you could still use that type of traitor in a smallish game (e.g. around 1000pts).