Can BA use the new marine formations?

[bob sprocket]

Can BA use the new space marine formations? Nowhere on the formation documents does it state that models need to have faction: space marines. So if I can meet the unit requirements using different faction models, eg BA or DA, can I select those to make the formation?

I'm specifically asking about the new skyhammer annihilation force. Can I make a BA SAF?

Secondly, if I can make a a BA SAF, can I make a hybrid SAF by selecting BA assault sqds and UM devs? Nowhere does it state models must all have the same faction does it?

Thoughts?

[Lord Manton]

I haven't read the wording specifically, but I'm gonna go with 'No'. It seems, wrong to me that you would be able to use non-'Space Marine' units to make a specifically 'Space Marine' formation.

[bob sprocket]

What makes it a specifically 'space marine' formation? Nothing says so. Do BA and DA, essentially codex chapters, not have comparably the same organisation and skills as UMs (units in their codices allowing, obviously no centurion/TFC/LS Storm/etc formations)

[Charon]

Usually the formations in the book have a disclaimer that units mentioned in the formations are units from said codex.

Skyhammer could be different.

[Cleon]

Well it uses the same faction icon as the Space Marine command tanks, who have a note saying any Marines can use the formation (listing the separate codex chapters).

In original Apoc there was one note on one datasheet saying 'any marines who have the unit can use any formations', while that's not absolute or and it could be argued the fact that the command tanks have a note and the skyhammer doesn't means they can't.

However the way the BA dex has been so fully shafted half a year after release I'm going to use them if the marine players around here do and that means I need to, based on how much better the standard marines seem to be in basic statlines (dreads, scouts having anti air choices, special abilities for vehicle bought in squadrons, obscene chapter traits, etc, etc).

[bob sprocket]

The formations in the new codex don't specify a required faction (except if used in a gladius strike force)

[Cleon]

True, but in the Blood Angels dex (and shield of Baal), the pattern is alternate org charts have the faction wording, specific detachments with set units don't, they are only identified by the icon - Unless we're saying that Marines have access to the Blood Angels detachments like the (Ward style named) 'Archangels Sanguine Force'.

Looking further, in the breakdown of what a data sheet looks like the icon at the top defines the faction, So I guess what I'd like is an FAQ saying BA can use the Marine formations, but not the individual unit sheets (Unless they are going to FAQ us WS & BS 4 scouts and 4 attack dreads, then I'll take that too!)

Edit: - Wow just checked and the FAQ up is still for the old codex - A whole 6 months AFTER the new codex came out. Way to care GW, good job!

[bob sprocket]

As far as I'm concerned space marines can use the archangels sanguine force. There's a couple they'll have access to, but nothing is game breaking.
The recent skitarii/cult mech/knight formation shows that the faction logo isn't defining of what faction models can belong to a formation (war convocation has a cult mech logo, but includes models from 3 factions). There is nothing anywhere that I can find that gives the symbol on the top of the sheet any rule meaning.

[MajorWesJanson]

As far as I'm concerned space marines can use the archangels sanguine force. There's a couple they'll have access to, but nothing is game breaking.
The recent skitarii/cult mech/knight formation shows that the faction logo isn't defining of what faction models can belong to a formation (war convocation has a cult mech logo, but includes models from 3 factions). There is nothing anywhere that I can find that gives the symbol on the top of the sheet any rule meaning.

Page 50 of the BA book or Page 114 of the SM book explain that they symbol at the top is the faction. Formations in the SM codex have the SM faction symbol, while BA units have the BA faction symbol. The only reason the War convocation allows for 3 different books to make up its mega formation is that the formation specifically allows it. 40K is a permissive rule set.

[bob sprocket]

well, that might answer that. Thanks Wes. I'll check those refs when I get home and have codicies in hand.

Cheers