GW 2014-2015 Half Year Results

[grimmas]

Good god how did any of you people manage to survive the post LoTR crash, I would have thought GW posting a loss would made your heads explode. Still it's not about us the vets it's all about the kids and has been since about 1990 (of there about) and they've hamstrung their ability to recuit them.

[daboarder]

Good god how did any of you people manage to survive the post LoTR crash, I would have thought GW posting a loss would made your heads explode. Still it's not about us the vets it's all about the kids and has been since about 1990 (of there about) and they've hamstrung their ability to recuit them.

actually theres a brilliant post on the front page that very nicely illustrates why BOTH are critical to the health of the game, because the vets drive the community and recruit those new kids.

[grimmas]

actually theres a brilliant post on the front page that very nicely illustrates why BOTH are critical to the health of the game, because the vets drive the community and recruit those new kids.

Yeah it's just usual over statement of our importance, they've already had our money there just isn't enough of to make enough purchases, sure we can be a tool in helping recruitment but it's still about the new people. Trust me when you step back and really look at the figures that are available, vet reliant games and companies don't do anywhere as well I terms of sales. Thing is though do we really need GW massaging our egos as vets I think we have more fun being left to do our own thing? May be its a cultural thing but I realy rather like the fact we get left to do our own thing, GW forums and discussions are always far better than the ones about other companies/products because of it, and it seems to inspire creativity in ways others can't match.

[DarkLink]

I wouldn't be so quick to discount that. Not only do veterans recruit new people, but most of the long-term vets I know just keep spending money. And since they've been around a while, that means they're adults with steady incomes, so their purchases can be very, very large. I've know people to buy new armies on a whim, especially now that allies are a thing. One veteran who buys 3 Imperial Knights is worth ten kids who buy a single tactical squad, especially since it was probably that vet who convinced those ten kids to play.

[daboarder]

yup, also, Vets can be dangerous to a company, even if you ascribe to the belief that they do not contribute to the market directly, how many games that piss off the vets survive? Almost none, happens in computer gaming a lot, if you piss off your fan base they will go out of their way to inform the new kids NOT to choose your product and you will see a decrease in sale.

[grimmas]

I wouldn't be so quick to discount that. Not only do veterans recruit new people, but most of the long-term vets I know just keep spending money. And since they've been around a while, that means they're adults with steady incomes, so their purchases can be very, very large. I've know people to buy new armies on a whim, especially now that allies are a thing. One veteran who buys 3 Imperial Knights is worth ten kids who buy a single tactical squad, especially since it was probably that vet who convinced those ten kids to play.

Ok but I think you're reasoning under a fallacy there, those 10 new people aren't just buying tactical squads they're also buying glue, paint, brushes and clippers, add that up and suddenly your making a lot more than the vet buying 3 Knights (who already has all the extras). Consider also the the vet has a job, a wife, children these eat into his time it could easily be 3 months before he finishes off those knights and buys more. Those new kids will be done in a week or so and be back for more. As for deposable income those children and wife are expensive as is his house, car and family holidays. The kids on the other hand have their pocket money, may be a paper round and the bank of mum and dad (and quite possibly 2 sets of grandparents) and all that money is for leisure. Yes those kids will drop off over the period of 4 years (remember the most common customer age group for GW is 12-16) but together they will to be buying in greater volume the your one vet, and of course one should be recruiting more. Of course of of those ten may become a vet himself they have to come from somewhere.

As for vets aiding recruiting the kids, grown men hanging around in what amounts to a toy shop talking to children is a bad in real life as it sounds on paper. They can help though by playing games, painting models and having a good time (which why good stores are important)

While I would very much agree with Daboarder that pissing off your customer base is a bad idea, I disagree on what that customer base is. For GW it's kids aged 12-16 not vets. By way of evidence I'll use the last 2 years from GW where we've seen revenue and profit drop. What have they changed, there's been no large price hike, tournament support, specialist games and the like have been gone for much longer than that. What we have seen is their retail staff being butchered which means far less capacity in store and a lack of ability to support independents, both of which are primary recruitment points. And low and behold we've seen a drop. If you look even closer you'll see a rise in, mail order sales and a big increase in FW sales. The former definitely being for at least existing custom and the latter being a product very much aimed at the vets. If these are rising, despite what the Internet would have you believe, surely vets are happy and buying away. It's retail that's showing the biggest drop and that's where you recruit your new players and that's what GW has buggered up. Yes the stores are expensive but they are the cost of doing business. Just look at the difference in size between GW and everyone else. When you really get down to it the only actual difference between GW and the other companies is that they have their own stores.

If I haven't bored you all enough another time I explain why the "competition" from other games isn't necessarily a bad thing for GW 😳

[Lexington]

While I would very much agree with Daboarder that pissing off your customer base is a bad idea, I disagree on what that customer base is. For GW it's kids aged 12-16 not vets. By way of evidence I'll use the last 2 years from GW where we've seen revenue and profit drop. What have they changed, there's been no large price hike, tournament support, specialist games and the like have been gone for much longer than that.

This analysis misses the fact that, during the time frame in which the initial sales drop occurred, there were some fairly massive price increases from GW - not only on existing products, but in the price of new products relative to equivalent merchandise. That's when the bottom fell out on GW's profit machine. Since then, they've halted the price increases on existing products, but the price point for new models, relative to what the consumer gets, continues to rise, even if not as notably. The game itself has also encouraged the purchase of more models, in the form of detachments and squadron rules. This doesn't seem to be solving the problem, and I think it's because GW has engineered its entire business model in a way that it's not possible to really fix the issue, even if they did understand it.

[Caitsidhe]

While I would very much agree with Daboarder that pissing off your customer base is a bad idea, I disagree on what that customer base is. For GW it's kids aged 12-16 not vets.

Games Workshop certainly seems to be "believe" children are their customer base. You, also, seem to buy into that nonsense. Children can't afford Games Workshop products. That is the long and the short of it. The only children who could buy into the hobby in a feasible way have adults who are extremely well off paying for it, or adults who happens to be "Vets" trying to bring their kids in on the hobby.

I will grant that there do appear to be more children playing the game in England (I don't know about the rest of Europe) but in the United States it is played almost exclusively by adults. Every now and again, a player will bring his kid along to watch or pretend to play. In the United States, a respectable portion of the business, it is adults playing the game. They aren't recruiting kids. Moreover, the very way recruitment in the U.S. works is different. So unless Games Workshop plans to cede the U.S. market they will have to admit they have a problem and start grappling with the issue. The new business model isn't working over here. It is driving the "Vets" to other games in droves, and they are not being replaced.

[daboarder]

given their constant insistance on starting major releases pre-orders on the 4th of july, I could see GW being stupid enough to cede the US market

[Houghten]

How can it be a "constant insistence" when pre-order day only falls on 4th July one in every seven years?