Poisoned attacks

[Just_Me]

I totally agree that a comparative rule should be used but unfortunately it's not. It's a pointless upgrade for a monstrous creature.

If the to wound role is better than the poisoned attack the better one applies. Also under the rule for poisoned attacks states that is the toughness is equal or less you get to re-roll failed rolls to wound.

While a perfectly sensible way to play, that's not actually true. Do you have a rules quote to back that up?

See, that's my thinking, it makes so much more sense if poisoned only comes into effect if the roll would otherwise be worse. From a logical perspective it makes more sense; think of it this way, suppose I'm a Carnifex (rawr!) and I have the strength to smash through steel like it was cardboard, life is pretty good... Now the hive-mind (in it's wisdom) decides to reconstitute me with poison sacs, I STILL HAVE THE STRENGTH TO TEAR THROUGH STEEL, now it just so happens I am also poisonous, when I hit it will still be just as strong as ever, but it will also poison them.

Unfortunately, as Nabterayl points out, that isn't how the rules work, and I even looked in the errata to see if this had been addressed, to no avail...

[Nabterayl]

See, the poisoned carnifexes have to restrain themselves, because if you just chop a man in half with your mighty claws then the poison doesn't really get into his bloodstream. You have to delicately prick him with your poisoned talons, so you don't ... um ... yeah ...

[Just_Me]

See, the poisoned carnifexes have to restrain themselves, because if you just chop a man in half with your mighty claws then the poison doesn't really get into his bloodstream. You have to delicately prick him with your poisoned talons, so you don't ... um ... yeah ...

Makes perfect sense, "don't waste what the Hive Mind provides!"

[DarkLink]

Y'know what would make more sense, is if poision was just a straight up reroll to wound, rather than wound on a 4+. Then we'd have Carnifexes rerolling a 2+ to wound.

Then they should probably throw on a "always wound on at least a 6+ or something".

Just a thought.

[SombreBrotherhood]

See, the poisoned carnifexes have to restrain themselves, because if you just chop a man in half with your mighty claws then the poison doesn't really get into his bloodstream. You have to delicately prick him with your poisoned talons, so you don't ... um ... yeah ...

HA! I second the "wha-huh? It doesn't?" theme I'm sensing. RAW wins, unfortunately, barring a gold mine type rules quote.

[bob9801]

That is pretty silly. It most definitely is how the rules are written though.

[AbusePuppy]

The answer is pretty obvious: don't take Toxin Sacs on your Carnifex, you silly.

The crappy 4+ wound is to make up for a single Gaunt being able to nibble a C'tan to death.

"I AM THE MIGHTY STAR-GOD, BOUND WITHIN THIS SHEATH OF LIVING METAL!"

"om nom nom"

"HEY! STOP THAT! OW! OW!! HOW DOES THIS EVEN WORK, SERIOUSLY?"

[Just_Me]

Exactly, if you do the math, toxin sacs are a great option for anything in the codex below strength 5; 4+ is better than the 5+, or 6+ of S4 v T>4 (and would allow you to wound anything in the game), and the same as S4 v T4, while 4+ with a reroll is actually better than a straight 3+ (unless my probability calculations are off, which is admittedly possible).

[darkninja962]

I don't think there's an actual rule on this, but can't it be fair to say that the Carnifex chooses not to use the poison this time? Just like a Space Marine knowing he'll die before he can get his power fist attacks so he does his normal ones at his initiative?

[Nabterayl]

You can't choose not to use your powerfist anymore in 5e, so that's not really a good analogy.

Like you said, there isn't a rule for it, but it's not a super unreasonable thing to do. I know that if somebody paid for toxin sacs on their carnifex I would let them choose between the Poisoned attacks and the regular attacks. But if somebody asked me what the rule was, I'd tell them that the rule is that they have to use their Poisoned attacks all the time.