Dark Eldar Rumor Roundup

[Uberbeast]

Eh... hyperbole maybe, but only just. Dark Eldar took a lot of nerfs, many of them completely gimping the army. I've got a real problem with taking already underperforming xenos codexs and gimping them even further while strong imperial "and or goodguy" books seems to stay the same. It really doesn't pay to play the bad-guys in this game.

[Charon]

What? Everything was nerfed? C'mon man, that's simply not true so let's back off on the hyperbole, please.

Oh sorry... scourges did receive a points decrease. So everything except scourges.
Even the point reductions where only there to cover up for point hikes in other places.
Example? Kabalites went down 1 point. Splinter Cannon went up 5 points, Dark lance on raider went up 5 points, Nightfield went up 5 points. In short? Right back where you started, just shifted numbers around.

Its not even De in a Vaccum. Orcs was exactly the same and SW was also "corrected" by the supplement. And if the parent codex is **** and the supplement (which is released at the same time) is miles better then that leaves the question "why are the coex rules poor if they prove that every single supplemet can have better rules"?

And I dont know how much playtesting do you need to find out that no haywire and more expensive Lances across the board hit the army pretty hard in the face of knights and the all too common vehicle spam.

[DarkLink]

If only Grey Knights had gotten a supplement...

[Mr Mystery]

I understand the irritation/concern about the current approach, but for now I'm withholding judgement.

At the moment, it's not great. For me, as an avid reader and background fan, I'm dead chuffed about all the expansion codecies - gives me more new background to read. But, for someone dedicated to an existing army, finding they way they played it now requires two books is a pain in the bahookie....

But, going forward it all depends. If GW leave the core Codecies be for a while (and remember, after less than three years, we almost have a full sequence of Codecies, with just Blood Angels and Necrons to go...) and instead release Appendix Codecies? Well over time that's less of a pain in the arse, as instead of buying a new edition of the Codex, you may be buying a new Supplement.

All depends how it pans out.

[DrLove42]

I find the lack of Harlequins very jarring. Not cos i expect them, but because the fluff section at the beginning includes a full 2 page spread on their background. And yet no rules. Feels lile they were pulled last minute

[confoo22]

Oh sorry... scourges did receive a points decrease. So everything except scourges.
Even the point reductions where only there to cover up for point hikes in other places.
Example? Kabalites went down 1 point. Splinter Cannon went up 5 points, Dark lance on raider went up 5 points, Nightfield went up 5 points. In short? Right back where you started, just shifted numbers around.

Its not even De in a Vaccum. Orcs was exactly the same and SW was also "corrected" by the supplement. And if the parent codex is **** and the supplement (which is released at the same time) is miles better then that leaves the question "why are the coex rules poor if they prove that every single supplemet can have better rules"?

And I dont know how much playtesting do you need to find out that no haywire and more expensive Lances across the board hit the army pretty hard in the face of knights and the all too common vehicle spam.

So the court is crap? Succubus? Grotesques? Talos/Cronos? Mandrakes? Reavers? Everyone who is saying those units got a boost is wrong?
And if they shifted points around so everything costs the same in the end, how is that a nerf exactly? When did nerf equal "staying the same?"

And if look around on forums and read the opinions of people who actually play Orks a lot of them are saying that the base codex is decent except for the mob rule mechanic and that the army is actually on par with more modern codexes for the first time in two editions. Also, from what I've seen, the Ghaz supplement is good but not inherently better than the base codex, just provides a different style of play. And can you explain exactly how SW were "corrected" by their supplement? I hadn't seen anyone say that until the DE codex was released, especially considering that TW Cavalry is considered the best unit in that codex and the supplement gives them no boost whatsoever. This whole idea that SW and Orks were garbage until their supplements came out feels a lot like revisionist history to me.

And as to how much playtesting I need, the answer is "More than zero."

[Charon]

But, going forward it all depends. If GW leave the core Codecies be for a while (and remember, after less than three years, we almost have a full sequence of Codecies, with just Blood Angels and Necrons to go...) and instead release Appendix Codecies? Well over time that's less of a pain in the arse, as instead of buying a new edition of the Codex, you may be buying a new Supplement.

We might have a full sequence of Codices but with an extreme variety of power levels.

As for fluff: Yeah im too a fluff bunny. But I cant see the fluff value of an € 39 supplement with 80 pages over an € 9 BL Book with around 400 pages of fluff.

So the court is crap? Succubus? Grotesques? Talos/Cronos? Mandrakes? Reavers? Everyone who is saying those units got a boost is wrong?

Court is better than before (was not hard to do, there wasnt even a buff just numbers where opened up) in general, Medusae got worse. Minis are decent as solo minis. Fielding 10 of these monopose minis looks stupid.

Succubus did not change at all. Was bad before, is bad now. Giving her the only AP2 weapon doesnt get her more killy or more survivable (still cant have shadowfield).

Grotesques got better, even better with supplement. Silly monopose mini. If I wanted to play mutated freaks I would have sticked with Nurgle Marines and not with Eldar.

Talos/Cronos got worse. Price Hike, no more PfP Attacks reduced. Yes you now can take up to 3 baddies per slot. Still bad. Cost of a Wraitlord, not even half as good.

Mandrakes are still useless. The cover save does nothing for them, still get killed in melee.

Reavers got worse. Price reduction is ok (still not a chance comparing them to Eldar jetbikes for just 1 more point) but removing Bladevanes D3 S4 attacks without having to waste them in melee is outright bad.

So yes. these units didnt get a boost. Most of them only got a power shift. The only models which where boosted are coincidentally the models that the also try to sell with the supplement.

Even the Voidraven was nerfed. And because nerfed models dont sell well, they had to nerf the Ravager even harder.

[Mr Mystery]

I don't know that we do have a power issue, beyond Tau and Eldar, and that's more down to specific combos than the armies being generally a lot harder.

Bearing in mind I don't partake in tournament type play, so may not have the same perspective, I feel that for the most part the game balance is better than it has been for a long while.

[confoo22]

Grotesques got better, even better with supplement. Silly monopose mini. If I wanted to play mutated freaks I would have sticked with Nurgle Marines and not with Eldar.

You can't have an objective discussion on whether or not a unit got a boost if part of your criteria is how good the model looks.

[Charon]

Hard to have an objective discussion anyways with somebody who insists that units that where not even touched got buffed or who tries to sell a net nerf as a buff because "something" changed.