Codex Orks - Informed discussion.

[Charon]

the fact that people online dismiss Kans works to their favour as people don't see them as a threat, meaning they're often left to do their thing, most units in the game (with a few obvious exceptions) are useful when used for what they're good at.

I guess you are missunderstanding the "issue".
Kans ARE a threat. There is nobody denying that. They are the same threat as a unit of 6 Terminators. And because of that they will draw fire (like Terminators) which they hardly survive (again... like Terminators) because the amount of shooting need to pop these kans in not very high and if the amount of kans that finally reach melee is low, they dont even do high amounts of damage (having just a few attacks).

So they are surely a threat but lack survivability to weather the fire directed at them. And while that was also an "issue" last codex, cowardly grot does them no good either.

[Path Walker]

I guess you are missunderstanding the "issue".
Kans ARE a threat. There is nobody denying that. They are the same threat as a unit of 6 Terminators. And because of that they will draw fire (like Terminators) which they hardly survive (again... like Terminators) because the amount of shooting need to pop these kans in not very high and if the amount of kans that finally reach melee is low, they dont even do high amounts of damage (having just a few attacks).

So they are surely a threat but lack survivability to weather the fire directed at them. And while that was also an "issue" last codex, cowardly grot does them no good either.

And again, your condesending attitude is noted, but you miss the fact that its not always a matter of your opponent being able to deal with Kans when they need to, sometimes and in the right situations, they're the tool you need to do the job you want them for, 7th edition, with the addition of Scoring and making it harder to "one shot" vehicles boosted up Kans, they can take more fire than before and can now come in bigger units, Cowardly Gots, which can make them Crew shaken (but if you have a dredd or more than 3 Kans, you're really reducing that risk), but if you want them to sit on an objective and weather bolter fire that would kill Boyz or Grots, thats not a problem.

The game doesn't fit with the "math hammer" assesments, because units have their uses that math doesn't take into account, thats what I am saying, dismissing any unit because you think 3 autocannons would destroy them in 2 turns of shooting isn't taking the flow of the game into account.

If you want to judge a unit, you have to try it out and see what its good at, and try lots of different things, playing games is what informs you about the game and what works for you, not sitting with a calculator and moaning on the internet.

Play more games and complain less and you'll find yourself enjoying your hobby more.

[Charon]

Maybe you should refrain to tell people how they should play the game?

We play the game at different levels. That it no problem in itself. So we need a more "geralized" approach to things.
If I come here running and telling you that grotz are the best unit evar because in the right situation and with the right dice they totally killed 10 Chaos terminators, the chaoslord and 6 Obliterators, you would still not be convinced that grotz are the "to go" anti-terminator unit.

You can only talk in averages here. And in average there are units that do a way better job than kanz even if the situation is not optimal. Ork heavy support is crowed and there are very good units in this section.

Again: nobody is saying "they dont work at all, never ever!". They are just harder to make work than other units and most of the time less rewarding. thats why they are perceived a "burden" you can always go out and use them, you can always compensate with skill or luck or a less skilled opponent. But that will still not change the fact that there are subpar units in the game and the Kanz are among them. Not on a Mandrake level of things mid you but still "below medicore".

[DarkLink]

Unless you consider disagreement to be condescending, I don't see anything condescending about his comment. You, on the other hand, reply to his argument with stuff like:

Also Kans aren't subject to morale, they have the Cowardly Grot rule which is very different, if you actually played games, you'd know that.

This both misses his point and insults his competence. So, dude, go read the forum rules and then chill out.


And, yeah, Kans are pretty terrible if you're facing a competent opponent. They were bad last edition, and they only got worse. They have bad stats, and there really aren't any mitigating factors beyond praying your opponent doesn't shoot them before they manage to get into assault. Maybe, maybe the rest of your list is so brutally good that your opponent is too busy dealing with it than with the Kans, or maybe your opponent sucks at target priority, but either way, it's not really the Kans that are the "good" part of that list.

[InterrogatorBlythicus]

Ok guys here's the problem with this thread. It's called informed discussion but there isn't a lot of it. There are three people who have decided the book is worthless. And no matter what ideas some people come up with, or valid points they make (like pathwalkers thing about survivability and so on), these three automatically say "nope, won't work, it's ****". So why waste your time arguing with people like this who have already made up there mind. I suggest ignoring them and stick to new ideas for formations.

Just a thought. Coz at this point it's clear that some people are more interested in *****ing than actual discussion.

[Mr Mystery]

Sod it.



And with that, I declare this thread dead as a Dodo. Nothing productive is now coming from it.

I shall summon a Mod to get it closed off.

[The Girl]

It's done nothing but give me grief for the last 3 days, so I'll answer that call.