Strength D blast wound allocation

[Buddhist_Possum]

I gotta go with daboarder here. The fact that the d6 role can result in more actual wounds than models hit would lean towards each MODEL rolls a dice.

D6 - 1
Vehicle or Building - Clipped: The target suffers a penetrating hit.
Non-vehicle - Lucky Escape: The model is unharmed.

D6 - 2-5
Vehicle or Building - Solid Hit: A Super-heavy vehicle loses D3+1 Hull Points. Other
vehicles suffer an Explodes! result from the Vehicle Damage table. Buildings suffer a
Detonation! result from the Building Damage table.
Non-vehicle - Seriously Wounded: The model loses D3+1 Wounds.

D6 - 6
Vehicle or Building - Devastating Hit: As for Solid Hit, above, except a Super-heavy
vehicle loses D6+6 Hull Points instead.
Non-vehicle - Deathblow: The model loses D6+6 Wounds.

Let's say you hit a termagaunt pile and get 6 hits. Then you roll 6d6, all resulting in a 2+. That would mean you get 12 minimum wounds from that, instead of just 6 gaunts.

I'm pretty sure it's a model by model basis, otherwise you could get twice/three times more wounds from these.

It's the ultimate shot, more or less. It just eradicates that circle.

[Gleipnir]

No one here is debating how many models are removed from D weapon hits.

As the thread is entitled its about how the wounds are allocated which in the case of D weapons that are shooting attacks, Blast or Template are allocated to the closest target in the unit hit first regardless of where the template lands in said unit,

Vortex D weapons and Apocalyptic Mega Blast D weapons are allocated to the model nearest to the center first.

That said you can play it wrong all you want the game has that wonderful roll for it rule and that's what house rules are for.

[Lord Krungharr]

Mmkay, I think I'm with you now.

Rather than summing up all the wounds from all the results and allocating those like we would for a normal blast, instead for a D-blast, we must determine how many models are hit by the blast and then either:

1) Allocate hits, rolling a result for each starting with the model closest to the firing model.

or

2) determine quantity of hits, then roll all results on D table, and allocate the results for each hit, starting with the model closest to the firing model.

Either of these ways would not be able to kill more than 1 model per hit. So the question remains, does one allocate hits and roll the D-table result separately model by model starting with the closest? Or does one first roll all those results, keep them in pools of 1s, 2-5s, and 6s, then allocate the results? I'm feeling the latter method makes more sense, it reminds me of Rending weapons. Rolled all at once, needing a base roll to wound with special case on 6s....

I do think that Look Out Sir could NOT be used to reallocate a hit or D-table result however, as Look Out Sir only reallocates a wound.

[Nabterayl]

Or does one first roll all those results, keep them in pools of 1s, 2-5s, and 6s, then allocate the results? I'm feeling the latter method makes more sense, it reminds me of Rending weapons. Rolled all at once, needing a base roll to wound with special case on 6s....

This is the way that makes the most sense to me. Destroyer tells us to roll on the Destroyer table instead of the To Wound table, but that's all it tells us to substitute. Thus, the method that makes the fewest changes from the normal method seems to me the closest to the text, and that would be the three-pool approach you outline above (and that Gleipnir and I have used in our examples).

I do think that Look Out Sir could NOT be used to reallocate a hit or D-table result however, as Look Out Sir only reallocates a wound.

This is a fair point. I don't think I would object to somebody using Look Out, Sir! on a 2-5 or a 6 from a Destroyer hit, but I think you're right that, technically, those results are neither Wounds nor unsaved Wounds.

[Gleipnir]

I wouldn't have an issue with someone pooling all the D weapon hits then rolling on the D weapon table after its been allocated closest model first, frankly the order that special rules are resolved in relation to everything else in the Allocate Wound & Remove Casualty phase varies from rule example to rule example so often its murky at best in terms of when it actually occurs, example for vehicles you roll on the Vehicle Penetrating Hit table after the wound is allocated and all saves if applicable have been taken. There are additional Special Rules examples that imply you should roll on thier table or generate thier effect to determine the results prior to allocating the wound however.

In the spirit of the rule description for Mixed Wounds though I prefer to determine what results I can and allow the shooting player to determine the order they are applied as normal though so he can put the different types of wounds(STR, AP, Special rule) in the order that benefits him most since the defending player can already somewhat control what is hit first by virtue of his own unit positioning.

[Defenestratus]

Hrmph

We've been playing it such that the hits cause that many wounds to the squad.

Otherwise D-weapons are ridiculously underpowered and our apoc games would take days if not weeks to complete.

There's no reason why a Revenant shouldn't blow away a mob of 30 orks with one of its arms.

But Gleipnir's explanation makes the most sense... damnit.

[Nabterayl]

Yeah, D weapons aren't for eliminating huge swaths of enemies. That's the niche filled by the lower Strength, bigger template weapons. Destroyer weapons are for punching out really hard targets. Personally I think that's all to the good; it makes the range of weapons that titans can carry less useless than the alternative would.

[Buddhist_Possum]

No one here is debating how many models are removed from D weapon hits.

As the thread is entitled its about how the wounds are allocated which in the case of D weapons that are shooting attacks, Blast or Template are allocated to the closest target in the unit hit first regardless of where the template lands in said unit,

Vortex D weapons and Apocalyptic Mega Blast D weapons are allocated to the model nearest to the center first.

That said you can play it wrong all you want the game has that wonderful roll for it rule and that's what house rules are for.

Actually we are, because you are trying to take wounds from the front and your misunderstanding of the rules would put more wounds into the pool and destroy more models (from the front).

Wounds are allocated on a model by model basis. The rule even says "roll to hit as normal". It doesn't say anything about rolling to wound as normal. It says "roll on the chart" which has "The model loses D3+1 Wounds", for example.

It doesn't say "takes wounds", it says "loses wounds". It also says "model", not "unit".

No one here is going to be convinced by another person so it all moot, but this is the clearest interpretation of the rule. I would never play against someone who is like:

"My D blast did 24 wounds to your unit".
"But you only hit 6 guys"
"Wound allocation says I did 24 wounds"
"Nope" -flips table

It just doesn't make sense. If they wanted you to wipe a UNIT with them, they would be apocalyptic blast! (Larger blast, get it?)

And yes, all this goes back to your blast wound allocation theory.

[Buddhist_Possum]

Yeah, D weapons aren't for eliminating huge swaths of enemies. That's the niche filled by the lower Strength, bigger template weapons. Destroyer weapons are for punching out really hard targets. Personally I think that's all to the good; it makes the range of weapons that titans can carry less useless than the alternative would.

This guy gets it.

[Gleipnir]

Actually we are, because you are trying to take wounds from the front and your misunderstanding of the rules would put more wounds into the pool and destroy more models (from the front).

Wounds are allocated on a model by model basis. The rule even says "roll to hit as normal". It doesn't say anything about rolling to wound as normal. It says "roll on the chart" which has "The model loses D3+1 Wounds", for example.

It doesn't say "takes wounds", it says "loses wounds". It also says "model", not "unit".

No one here is going to be convinced by another person so it all moot, but this is the clearest interpretation of the rule. I would never play against someone who is like:

"My D blast did 24 wounds to your unit".
"But you only hit 6 guys"
"Wound allocation says I did 24 wounds"
"Nope" -flips table

It just doesn't make sense. If they wanted you to wipe a UNIT with them, they would be apocalyptic blast! (Larger blast, get it?)

And yes, all this goes back to your blast wound allocation theory.

Buddhist its not that long a thread, read it and you will not see anyone saying a D hit spreads its wounds among multiple models apart from yourself, a D weapon large blast that hits(ie covers 8 models) only removes at most 8 models.