Tyranids 1750pts tournament build.

[Gleipnir]

According to p65 of the Tyranid codex only if the FIRST template misses do Spore Mines come in. Having 3 separate units instead of a unit of 3 means more chances for Spore Mines.

Thanks didn't catch the "first" in the description, cheap as they are I still think id keep em all together and just add more broods if the goal was more spore mines

[flatscan]

Thanks didn't catch the "first" in the description, cheap as they are I still think id keep em all together and just add more broods if the goal was more spore mines

Sure, if you need those FO slots. Otherwise I'd spread them out.

[Martyn Powell]

Hello Chaps... outcome for the tournament - 21st out of 28.

Flyrant - 260 Wings 2x TL brainleech, shreddershard thorax, hive commander.
Flyrant - 260 Wings, 2x TL brainleech, shreddershard thorax, hive commander

20 termagants - 160
Devourers
20 termagants - 160
Devourers
15 termagants - 60

2 venomthropes - 90
2 zoanthropes - 100

Harpy - 135
Harpy - 135

3 biovores - 120
Exocrine - 170

Aegis - 100
Quadgun

Right Game 1 against Screamerstar.
The scouring (6 objectives each worth 1x1, 2x2, 2x3 and 1x4vp). and DOW deployment.

I get deploy first.

Everything behind gunline, biovores take out two screamers and put a wound on another. flyers go down right flank cant get any hits on some walker thing i forget the name but it was 13/13/11 or something meaning my flyrants couldn't hurt it. Turn 1 I lost a harpy due to it being enfeebled (-1T making it T4)... takes 2 wounds from the walker thing as it has skyfire and it the fails its grounding takes a wound and instant deaths itself!!! yay! so that's my opponent on 2vp's already (First blood and game type).
Game continues to bascially me taking out a few things.

The game ends with me holding 1 objective for 1 vp, 3 objectives contested (screamer unit with 2 heralds had to split off). 1 objective claimed by some deepstriking plaguebearers for 3vp.
I lose 6-3.

Game 2 mechanised guard
Purge the alien, vanguard strike.

Turn 1 I put two hp's between 2 chrimeras (big woop).. take out 7 guardsmen and pin them.
His turn 1 I lose 3 biovores, and 1 zoan from 1 manticore hit... I also get grounded on my non WL flyrant which gets blasted by everything else.
Game goes on and my outlfanking termagants could not have come on in a worse place.
My flyers get ripped apart from a quadgun grounded and then shot by everything else... when I shoot back, I hit but fail to do anything but scratchpaint or kill a few exposed guardsmen.
I lose 9-1.

Game 3
Space Wolves and Ultramarines.
The Relic, Hammer and Anvil.

This is where my flyers really came into play... 3 drop pods came down about about 30 marines exposed on the table so a lot of vector striking removed most of it.
During the game I was doing well and was lucky at getting Catalyst on my 2nd flyrant, but still didn't help my WL which was grounded and shot to bits to give STW and FB.
Game ends with just 4 models left on the table for my opponent. (Rune priest in combat with my flyrant) and 3 tactical marines.
I have 30 termagants, giving linebreaker (and their devourers actually hit and did damage). I also got STW for killing tigerius in a challenge (shame I didn't have mind eater WL trait).
No-one holds the relic.
Game ends 2-2.

Overall... wishing I had my £300 pre-order refunded.o

Just no fun in having models removed from the board because of no save or just crashing and instant killing themselves. Dice failed me in 2 games. 60 shots S4 side armour chrimera hitting on 4's glancing 6's... 8 hits and on glances (I just needed 1 to wreck it).... Assuming I was going to wreck it I conga line behind the tank for LOS blocking however It lived and had 2 Heavy flamers causing 25 wounds on 20models... great.

One thing I did find was that with 2 psychic powers and 2 ranged weapons, a thorax swarm and vector strike I did have up to 6 weapons potentially on both tyrants. Way too much considering they can only use 2 a turn. I was nice in the last game having S3 rending with re-roll wounds (killed about 6 marines) but perhaps having dakkarants as CC with a thorax would be better for supporting other elements of the army.

For me Tyranids are getting shelved. Perhaps Ebay and starting fresh with something else.


Sorry Nidz are an assault army. but since 6th edition I've rarely won with them.

Overwatch killed genestealers. No assault from outflank doubly so.
MC's cannot run up the board... too much AP2 and AP3 will just wipe them out I've seen it happen too many times.
FMC's crash and die too quickly... every list had some sort of skyfire which gives them little to no save.
No mycetic spores has really stopped the movement in the army... they provided an oh **** what's in there factor which is right up in the enemies face on turn 2.

[Halollet]

I wouldn't shelve your nids just yet because, I'm sorry to say this, but I don't like your list at all.

It doesn't hit hard enough to justify its 1750 point cost.

As you said, you put 6 guns on your tyrants each, so that's a bad idea. I was never a fan of the brainleeches as I found tyrants are just better in close combat. Can't shoot you there! With bonesword, whip, talons, and toxin sacs you have a good chance of cutting a riptide in two that doesn't have its super shield up. You already have 1-2 guns on a tyrant with the vector strike and half the time you're going to get one of the physic guns, both of which I love on a tyrant, so why pay more points for things you probably won't use?

Next, your gaunts. You can mix weapons so why aren't you? Do half and half and don't outflank them. This allows you to put more bodies on the field and in the way of enemy shooting and an 18" range means you'll be able to shoot some things first turn. Right now they dont' have any fodder attached to them and they may not see the table until turn 4.

I wouldn't stray away from warriors either. 3 with a strangler giving synapse for your back field as well as camping your home objective is cheap and efficient.

Venom/Zoanthropes are good so I wouldn't touch those.

Can't say much about the harpies, they do seem really squishy to me. I personally don't use them as I love carnifexes too much.

Speaking about carnifexes, why dont' you have one? You shot gaunts at the side of a weak tank, why not just get a fex with a heavy venom cannon and blow it up from across the board? And its still a fex, you walk up and smash things afterwards! Have your tyrant join its assault to really mess up their heavy hitters.

That's what I would do.

[Gleipnir]

Right Game 1 against Screamerstar.
The scouring (6 objectives each worth 1x1, 2x2, 2x3 and 1x4vp). and DOW deployment.

I get deploy first.

Everything behind gunline, biovores take out two screamers and put a wound on another. flyers go down right flank cant get any hits on some walker thing i forget the name but it was 13/13/11 or something meaning my flyrants couldn't hurt it. Turn 1 I lost a harpy due to it being enfeebled (-1T making it T4)... takes 2 wounds from the walker thing as it has skyfire and it the fails its grounding takes a wound and instant deaths itself!!! yay! so that's my opponent on 2vp's already (First blood and game type).
Game continues to bascially me taking out a few things.

The game ends with me holding 1 objective for 1 vp, 3 objectives contested (screamer unit with 2 heralds had to split off). 1 objective claimed by some deepstriking plaguebearers for 3vp.
I lose 6-3.

I am curious, do you Swoop all your flyers far ahead of the rest of your units or Glide them forward using LoS blocking cover to advance, I find Nids far too fragile when you do the former and much easier to get the FMC stuck in and surviving if you do the later, or was this a Tournament where you were not permitted to place terrain of any kind? Does the venomthrope keep up with them?

Game 2 mechanised guard
Purge the alien, vanguard strike.

Turn 1 I put two hp's between 2 chrimeras (big woop).. take out 7 guardsmen and pin them.
His turn 1 I lose 3 biovores, and 1 zoan from 1 manticore hit... I also get grounded on my non WL flyrant which gets blasted by everything else.
Game goes on and my outlfanking termagants could not have come on in a worse place.
My flyers get ripped apart from a quadgun grounded and then shot by everything else... when I shoot back, I hit but fail to do anything but scratchpaint or kill a few exposed guardsmen.
I lose 9-1.

Should consider placing the Biovores in a structure to make them Fearless and thus at least Prowl on the IB table, to prevent losing them to high strength pie plates, saves you from parking a venomthrope near them. Can always add cheap 4 point Termagants to a 20 man group with Devourers to essentially buy them return fire wounds.

Game 3
Space Wolves and Ultramarines.
The Relic, Hammer and Anvil.

This is where my flyers really came into play... 3 drop pods came down about about 30 marines exposed on the table so a lot of vector striking removed most of it.
During the game I was doing well and was lucky at getting Catalyst on my 2nd flyrant, but still didn't help my WL which was grounded and shot to bits to give STW and FB.
Game ends with just 4 models left on the table for my opponent. (Rune priest in combat with my flyrant) and 3 tactical marines.
I have 30 termagants, giving linebreaker (and their devourers actually hit and did damage). I also got STW for killing tigerius in a challenge (shame I didn't have mind eater WL trait).
No-one holds the relic.

The Harpy is really more of a jump monstrous creature than a flyer, and is more effective when paired with something that can take advantage of its -5 initiative screech, obviously Pinning cannons vs Fearless enemies is less than effective. The Twin Linked Devourer Flyrants are good for fighting other flyers but the Tyrant himself is better off on the ground stuck in fighting till he has a flyer to go after.

[Martyn Powell]

Yep i got a pep talk from a mate... nidz wont be shelved... yet.
I've got a few lists in mind.

Turns out the guy i was playing in game 2 wasnt using his master of ordnance correctly (hit markers it goes in direction of arrow).

Reason why i havent mixed weapons yet is that i have mostly fleshborers so no way of telling per model what has what unless all the same.

I have two projects in mind to replace my older models for tyranids and dark elves with the newer releases. Selling my older models to fund this.

[xsquidz]

Hello Chaps... outcome for the tournament - 21st out of 28.

Flyrant - 260 Wings 2x TL brainleech, shreddershard thorax, hive commander.
Flyrant - 260 Wings, 2x TL brainleech, shreddershard thorax, hive commander

20 termagants - 160
Devourers
20 termagants - 160
Devourers
15 termagants - 60

2 venomthropes - 90
2 zoanthropes - 100

Harpy - 135
Harpy - 135

3 biovores - 120
Exocrine - 170

Aegis - 100
Quadgun

Right Game 1 against Screamerstar.
The scouring (6 objectives each worth 1x1, 2x2, 2x3 and 1x4vp). and DOW deployment.

I get deploy first.

Everything behind gunline, biovores take out two screamers and put a wound on another. flyers go down right flank cant get any hits on some walker thing i forget the name but it was 13/13/11 or something meaning my flyrants couldn't hurt it. Turn 1 I lost a harpy due to it being enfeebled (-1T making it T4)... takes 2 wounds from the walker thing as it has skyfire and it the fails its grounding takes a wound and instant deaths itself!!! yay! so that's my opponent on 2vp's already (First blood and game type).
Game continues to bascially me taking out a few things.

The game ends with me holding 1 objective for 1 vp, 3 objectives contested (screamer unit with 2 heralds had to split off). 1 objective claimed by some deepstriking plaguebearers for 3vp.
I lose 6-3.

Game 2 mechanised guard
Purge the alien, vanguard strike.

Turn 1 I put two hp's between 2 chrimeras (big woop).. take out 7 guardsmen and pin them.
His turn 1 I lose 3 biovores, and 1 zoan from 1 manticore hit... I also get grounded on my non WL flyrant which gets blasted by everything else.
Game goes on and my outlfanking termagants could not have come on in a worse place.
My flyers get ripped apart from a quadgun grounded and then shot by everything else... when I shoot back, I hit but fail to do anything but scratchpaint or kill a few exposed guardsmen.
I lose 9-1.

Game 3
Space Wolves and Ultramarines.
The Relic, Hammer and Anvil.

This is where my flyers really came into play... 3 drop pods came down about about 30 marines exposed on the table so a lot of vector striking removed most of it.
During the game I was doing well and was lucky at getting Catalyst on my 2nd flyrant, but still didn't help my WL which was grounded and shot to bits to give STW and FB.
Game ends with just 4 models left on the table for my opponent. (Rune priest in combat with my flyrant) and 3 tactical marines.
I have 30 termagants, giving linebreaker (and their devourers actually hit and did damage). I also got STW for killing tigerius in a challenge (shame I didn't have mind eater WL trait).
No-one holds the relic.
Game ends 2-2.

Overall... wishing I had my £300 pre-order refunded.o

Just no fun in having models removed from the board because of no save or just crashing and instant killing themselves. Dice failed me in 2 games. 60 shots S4 side armour chrimera hitting on 4's glancing 6's... 8 hits and on glances (I just needed 1 to wreck it).... Assuming I was going to wreck it I conga line behind the tank for LOS blocking however It lived and had 2 Heavy flamers causing 25 wounds on 20models... great.

One thing I did find was that with 2 psychic powers and 2 ranged weapons, a thorax swarm and vector strike I did have up to 6 weapons potentially on both tyrants. Way too much considering they can only use 2 a turn. I was nice in the last game having S3 rending with re-roll wounds (killed about 6 marines) but perhaps having dakkarants as CC with a thorax would be better for supporting other elements of the army.

For me Tyranids are getting shelved. Perhaps Ebay and starting fresh with something else.


Sorry Nidz are an assault army. but since 6th edition I've rarely won with them.

Overwatch killed genestealers. No assault from outflank doubly so.
MC's cannot run up the board... too much AP2 and AP3 will just wipe them out I've seen it happen too many times.
FMC's crash and die too quickly... every list had some sort of skyfire which gives them little to no save.
No mycetic spores has really stopped the movement in the army... they provided an oh **** what's in there factor which is right up in the enemies face on turn 2.

Much of what you proved is that you can't take good advice, then you wonder why it didn't go so well?

FOC FOC FOC!

Break up those biovores, break up either the zoans or the venomthropes, mix and match gaunts to protect the devourers (yes I know you need the models), too many points spent on the tyrants-you don't need the flamer or hive commander, thats 60 points saved!

However, just as important is that it looks like you didn't know your opponents armies, so ask questions!

Game 1-no way should your tyrants be near a soul grinder with AV 13/13/?whatever. If you had used them against the right units in turn 1, like the screamerstar, it could have been an entirely different game. I went against an eldar seer council the other day and with a nice use of onslaught and going first, I killed like 8 of 10 warlocks on turn 1.

Game 2-why are you so bunched up when you are fighting IG with a manticore? Most of their little lasguns are poor AP so don't worry about them as much, spread out but keep one model in each key squad near the venomthropes so they all get cover. here is where splitting up the biovores would have helped as well. Also-manticores are just devastating.

Just adapt for next games.

[Martyn Powell]

Yes I accept that my list and also my tactics were flawed. It is true that I don't know many armies apart from what I play and what I play against at my local club. Unfortunately everyone at the club pretty much uses Marines. We have very few who use Tau, Eldar, Daemons and our Guard players are all very fluffy. I would be nice to have everybook and indeed every army but with the prices as they are I'll win the lottery first before even dreaming of starting something else while I have 2 40k armies (Templars and Tyranids) and 2 Fantasy armies (Bretonians and Dark Elves).

The reason why I kept units together (ie. zoans in a unit of 2 and the biovores in a unit of 3) is so that in purge the alien (which is pretty much guaranteed to be a game type) I won't be giving away easier VPs.

Anyway back to list building (I am taking on board all of your ideas as I can easily overlook or misinterpret something).

List 1 work in progress, especially in the troops department.

HQ
Swarmlord - 285
2 Tyrant Guard - 100
Deathleaper - 130

Tervigon - 195
30 Termagants - 120

2 Zoanthropes - 100
2 Venomthropes - 90
2 Lictors - 100

Crone - 155
Crone - 155

Mawloc - 140
Mawloc - 140
Biovore - 40

Lictors and Deathleaper Infiltrate depending on the opponent. This allows pinpoint deepstrikes/TFTD for Mawlocks. Swarmlord would advance along with the 30 termagants providing intervening model save with venoms making it a 3+ cover while moving up the table, also providing the all important synapse (which would most likely be out to 24"). Both Crones are on anti-tank/MEQ/Flyer duty, either starting on the board and advancing with the swarmlord to get the 3+ cover or arriving turn 2 (if going second) to get some shots on some flyers. Tervigon sits back, most likely with the biovore and the zoans.

Thoughts?

List 2
Swarmlord- 285
3 Tyrant Guard - 150
Flyrant - 230
2x TL Brainleech

30 Termagants - 120
1 Tervigon - 195

2 Venomthropes - 90
1 Venomthrope - 45

Carnifex - 150
2x TL Brainleech
Carnifex - 150
2x TL Brainleech
Carnifex - 150
2x TL Brainleech

This has 185pts spare of which I'm not sure on where I want it to go. Idea is to have swarmlord up behind the termagants getting shrouded from venoms, Carnifex's move up on another flank with a tervigon behind pooping out troops from turn 2. Undecided what I want the tyrant to do.

Are these better lists? lol

[xsquidz]

Yes I accept that my list and also my tactics were flawed. It is true that I don't know many armies apart from what I play and what I play against at my local club. Unfortunately everyone at the club pretty much uses Marines. We have very few who use Tau, Eldar, Daemons and our Guard players are all very fluffy. I would be nice to have everybook and indeed every army but with the prices as they are I'll win the lottery first before even dreaming of starting something else while I have 2 40k armies (Templars and Tyranids) and 2 Fantasy armies (Bretonians and Dark Elves).

The reason why I kept units together (ie. zoans in a unit of 2 and the biovores in a unit of 3) is so that in purge the alien (which is pretty much guaranteed to be a game type) I won't be giving away easier VPs.

Anyway back to list building (I am taking on board all of your ideas as I can easily overlook or misinterpret something).

List 1 work in progress, especially in the troops department.

HQ
Swarmlord - 285
2 Tyrant Guard - 100
Deathleaper - 130

Tervigon - 195
30 Termagants - 120

2 Zoanthropes - 100
2 Venomthropes - 90
2 Lictors - 100

Crone - 155
Crone - 155

Mawloc - 140
Mawloc - 140
Biovore - 40

Lictors and Deathleaper Infiltrate depending on the opponent. This allows pinpoint deepstrikes/TFTD for Mawlocks. Swarmlord would advance along with the 30 termagants providing intervening model save with venoms making it a 3+ cover while moving up the table, also providing the all important synapse (which would most likely be out to 24"). Both Crones are on anti-tank/MEQ/Flyer duty, either starting on the board and advancing with the swarmlord to get the 3+ cover or arriving turn 2 (if going second) to get some shots on some flyers. Tervigon sits back, most likely with the biovore and the zoans.

Thoughts?

List 2
Swarmlord- 285
3 Tyrant Guard - 150
Flyrant - 230
2x TL Brainleech

30 Termagants - 120
1 Tervigon - 195

2 Venomthropes - 90
1 Venomthrope - 45

Carnifex - 150
2x TL Brainleech
Carnifex - 150
2x TL Brainleech
Carnifex - 150
2x TL Brainleech

This has 185pts spare of which I'm not sure on where I want it to go. Idea is to have swarmlord up behind the termagants getting shrouded from venoms, Carnifex's move up on another flank with a tervigon behind pooping out troops from turn 2. Undecided what I want the tyrant to do.

Are these better lists? lol

If you want to learn how to play against armies you don't see very often-ask them questions before the game begins, make sure you know how stuff works, watch battle report videos as well, or ask on forums for advice versus certain armies.

Your first list is interesting but a bit gimmicky. If the lictors and deathleaper do die early then the mawlocs will just drop like normal, or if you find you can't get them close enough before reserves come in it will be the same issue. Personally I think the lictor/mawloc tactic doesn't seem very good-HOWEVER I have never tried it so I suggest you do and see how it goes. I think mawlocs have potential but with the other models you are tying up alot of points for something that still might not work.

As per the second list, I think it has potential. Carnifexes with 2X TL devourers are amazing in the few games I have used them. Personally I am not a big fan of the swarmlord either, but again I would say try it because he can guarantee to get 24 inch synpase so he should be able to cover your whole army.

I like list 2 better but you should just try them both.

[Martyn Powell]

the lictor/mawloc tactic like you said "could" work.

It all depends on how close I can get them to a target, Infiltrate 12" away out of LOS or 18" in line of sight... If I get second deployment/turn then I can charge something squishy and still be able to TFTD on to the unit that is in CC with the deathleaper/lictors as it is not a shooting attack and doesn't target a unit.
Mawlocs would also be turning up on a 2+.
Deathleaper is particularly hard to kill on turn 1, in 5+ cover he's got a 4+ cover save due to stealth and you can only fire snapshots... I would be very, very wise on his placement as I would be with the other lictors.

Personally Mawlocs I've not had much luck with, I've had one bump his head on a LS Typhoon and go back into reserve only next turn to bump his head on an iron halo (scatter not intentional) and die from mishap. Another time he bumped his head twice on an attack bike after killing 3 bikes.

Carnifex's... I like them, I have 4 of them yet in 5th edition I rarely used them (160pts basic was stupid). Now they are 120 basic and 150 for dakka yeah they have a use, however like a squadron of vehicles they will take some punishment from eldar with massed rending and also grav weapons... all of which have better range/mobility. So it's finding the right target, but yes 3 of them 36shots S6 TL is nice but useless against AV13.

The reason for the 3 separate units is for wounds overspill... it wont happen on a separate unit which is an inch away.

It was my friend with the pep talk who came up with list 2...

I prefer list 1, just because it's up in your opponents face causing them to do 1 of 2 things... bunker down and take it with a gun line... or spread out knowing that there are S6 AP2 ignores cover large blasts incoming. Either way you're going to cause havoc in an organized defense or allow units like the crones to single out and destroy isolated units.

I've never been a fan of footslogging... in the current meta, just too much shooting. I played eldar (this guy came 6th with this list in the tournament) Twin seer... I got halfway across the board. 5th edition codex... I got half way across the board facing 3k of Taudar... but I did better than my 4th ed Black Templars (yeah those games were about 6months ago, but my feelings towards footslogging haven't changed.)

I'll see if I can get a game with list 1 tomorrow evening and let you know how it goes... On Thursday I'll try list 2, Any Ideas on what to spend the last 185pts on? perhaps drop the swarmlord to a tyrant and chuck in lots of hormagaunts?