Sororitas loyalties

[Kahoolin]

So I was reading my WH codex the other day and in the bit about Karamazov it tells the story of him arresting, torturing and executing a popular preacher while ignoring repeated demands from the Ecclesiarch to stop. Supposedly the ecclesiarchy now seriously has it in for the little man in the big angry chair.

This got me thinking, what would have happened if Karamazov had requested some sisters to fulfill their oath as the chamber militant, and the preacher had also called them to his aid? Or what happens any time a Hereticus Inquisitor calls on his or her chamber militant when they want to, you know, arrest well-armed heretics within the ecclesiarchy? The sisters have sworn an oath to the Ordo Hereticus, but they are also the defenders of the faith and I'm pretty sure it's been established in fluff that they serve as bodyguards for Cardinals and pilgrims and guards for cathedrals. Fluff seems to be full of corrupt priests, they seem to be a major target for the OH. Does this mean sisters fighting sisters happens a lot?

Seems to me these responsibilities would quite often put the sisters in a bit of a pickle...

[Cryl]

Good question. I suppose this applies to almost anything where the inquisition (particularly Ordo Hereticus) gets involved... who do you believe, the people you work with or the Inquisitor?

I'd assume that the Soroitas would obey the Inquisition (much like a marine chapter asked to hunt down a rogue chapter or a guard unit asked to help deal with traitor guard) but that they'd be very much on the look out for the fact that the supposed heresy was in fact real and not a slightly over zealous inquisitor getting carried away.

An inquisitor in this situation might well use ISTs rather than SoB just to avoid any potential conflict.

As for sisters fighting sisters, that's very unlikely. As likely as Ultramarines from the same company coming to serious blows in the same situation. The sisterhood has been played before during the age of apostasy and I doubt they'd let it happen again on any scale.

EDIT: I've just thought, what level of independance does the Sororitas have? Marine Chapters have been known to refuse to participate, even when asked by the inquisition; can the Sororitas do this when they believe the situation warrants?

[Nabterayl]

Sisters feel a duty to purge heresy just as much as the Ordo Hereticus does (probably one of the reasons they get along so well - I mean, if you think about it, any two Imperial organizations cooperating is pretty rare), so I imagine they're fairly used to purging heretic clergy. In Faith and Fire, Miriya doesn't waste a second agonizing over the decision to kill the ranking clergyman on the planet once she determines to her satisfaction that he's a heretic.

As for what would happen if an inquisitor and his target both called on the same sisters to aid them? I think the sisters would pick one over the other, or else sit it out until and unless they felt comfortable picking one over the other. I don't think sisters fighting sisters happens all that often. The impression I got from Faith and Fire is that the Adepta Sororitas' first loyalties, like all other organizations in the Imperium, are to themselves. Well okay, to the Emperor, and then to themselves - but I'm pretty positive that the Adepta Sororitas ranks above the Ecclesiarchy in your average sister's hierarchy of loyalties, and if above the Ecclesiarchy, then definitely above the Ordo Hereticus.

EDIT: I've just thought, what level of independance does the Sororitas have? Marine Chapters have been known to refuse to participate, even when asked by the inquisition; can the Sororitas do this when they believe the situation warrants?

Politically speaking, I think the answer has to be that we just don't know. We don't know any details about the Convocation of Nephilim - just that it says the Sororitas will aid the Ordo Hereticus when asked. We conspicuously don't know how it's enforced - i.e., what happens if the Sororitas say no, in violation of the Convocation.

Practically speaking, I think the answer is almost always going to be that the inquisition can't push around the Sororitas without a good deal of preparation. Invoking the Convocation is a pretty nuclear option for an Ordo Hereticus inquisitor; it's their equivalent of calling in the Grey Knights, or the Deathwatch. If an inquisitor is in that position, it's probably because he feels like he doesn't have enough military power already on his side to get the job done.

So if an inquisitor who doesn't have enough military power goes to an organization that has the military power he lacks ... and if that organization tells him to go jump in a lake ... what's he gonna do about it?

Eventually the spurned inquisitor might be in a position to retaliate, if his connections are good enough. There are lots of ways an inquisitor could make life nasty for a recalcitrant canoness - he might be able to pressure her superior, or the local ranking ecclesiarch, or he might be able to muster a force of storm troopers, Guard, and/or space marines to punish the "rogue" sisters - but all that would take time, and depend very much on the connections and persuasiveness of the inquisitor in question. In the short term, I'm pretty sure that in 90% of the cases an inquisitor who is turned down by a canoness can't do anything about it.

[Cryl]

Sounds like I need to read Faith and Fire

I'd guess that this situation is going to be incredibly rare. If an inquisitor is calling in the Sororitas to deal with a traitor in the clergy then he's going to be very sure of the heresy and it's got to be fairly blatant otherwise a couple of IST squads should be sufficient, the Sororitas, like you say Nabterayl, are the nuclear option for the Ordo Hereticus and would only be employed where the heretic in question was entrenched in a place that the Inquisitor couldn't just walk into with his regular entourage. If the heresy is that obvious then the Sororitas are likely to be keen to be involved rather than refusing!

[Kahoolin]

Hmm, I read the situation as being more that the sororitas were the default option for the Hereticus inquisitor who needed military aid, rather than the last resort. If an Inquisitor needed to arrest a clergyman and didn't call on the sisters, surely the clergyman would call on them to defend him?

It almost seems like the sisters are in a pretty powerful position for resolving disputes between the Ordo and the clergy, being the main military arm of both organizations.

[Cryl]

Aren't ISTs the default option for an Inquisitor (of any Ordo) who needs military aid and the Deathwatch, Grey Knights or Sororitas are the next step where the alien, daemon or heretic really needs to be seriously told to behave itself!

The situation where an Inquisitor turns up to arrest a Cardinal with some ISTs and the Sororitas turn up to stop them would be so rare as to be unheard of I'd imagine. An Inquisitor would either advise the sisters beforehand or bring enough force to ensure that their well intentioned but ill fated protection of the heretic was short lived. If the later didn't happen then the next step would probably be very messy as a heretic in that position of power would either have to get rid of the sisters who had protected them or die at their hands when they realised their error (and I'm sure they would realise)

Given the events of the Age of Apostasy where the sisters were misused by the clergy to continue the heresy I suspect they're pretty much on the ball when it comes to spotting heretics and as well as protecting high ranking clergy they also watch them for signs of it.

[Melissia]

Sisters are loyal to the Emperor first and foremost. Inquisitors may become rogues, preachers may become apostates-- only the Emperor's truth is divine, only the Emperor's light burns eternal.

[B_Steele]

Sisters are loyal to the Emperor first and foremost. Inquisitors may become rogues, preachers may become apostates-- only the Emperor's truth is divine, only the Emperor's light burns eternal.

While pretty and poetic, your response lacks an answer to the OP. The Sororitas would back whomever they feel was in the right based on their faith. In one of the Ciaphas Cain novels (I'm not sure which one, but it is the one dealing with tyranids and cultists), the local Sisters were following what they believed to be the Imperial Truth but it turned out that they pretty much screwed the pooch and made things a whole lot worse. They are not infallible, just like everything else in the 40k grimdark, their mistakes/failures/falls-from-grace are tragic and story-worthy.

As to the OP's question...In the end, it would make for an interesting story either way. The Sororitas tend to be rather bland (IMO) when it comes to what they do whenever they appear in 40k stories (although I love them on the miniature battlefield), so I think that would be a great story. A story that shows them the enormous block of grey in between their narrow view of black and white answers to everything. Something that shows them as being the humans they are, not some kind of autonomous wind-up-toys for their religion.

But hey, who am I to question the Emperor? I'm just a human...

[Melissia]

No, they aren't infallible, noone is. Even the Grey Knights can be misled and make mistakes. I merely stated that they follow their faith first and foremost, not the Inquisition and not the Ecclesiarchy-- faith transcends such loyalties, because the two organizations both have their bad eggs amidst all the good they do.

And I agree, most of GW's tellings of what the Sisters do tends to be bland. But then, I don't expect anything more out of Black Library. Good authors are the exception, not the rule.

[B_Steele]

But then, I don't expect anything more out of Black Library. Good authors are the exception, not the rule.

Well Mel, I have been trying to get a gig there for 2+ years now with a Blood Angel/Sororitas crossover that I think you would really like. You might not like some of how things end up for the ladies in black, but you'd be proud of what they do, I'd say.

Also, writing about Pennie Engines is fun.

Cheers,
Bry