Penal Legion

[Atrotos]

Believing this unit to be ineffective and terminally boring I wrote [URL="http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=3798"]alternate rules for them [/URL]. It was not long before the thread was choked with gamers exclaiming the very real usefulness of the unit but, slow witted mammal that I am, I have completely failed to see how this unit could ever be more than a mediocre choice thoroughly outclassed by the Last Chancers of the previous edition.

Can someone please relate to me how this unit is worth the glossy paper its rules are printed on? Specifically I would like the opinions of older IG players who can compare the merits of the new Penal Legion with that of the old but anyone is welcome to take a swing at it.

[Melissia]

Probably better off asking here if you want older IG players.

[url]http://commissar.proboards.com/index.cgi[/url]

[Valhallan42nd]

A troop unit that can outflank, and might turn out to be low-rent genestealers? All for 80 points?

Heh, my boys in orange jumpsuits killed a carnifex in one turn of close combat. There's nothing to fix.

And before you respond in the manner you resonded in the last post, the penal legion is a unit that, more than anything else, splits your opponent's attention. It's a troops unit that can get back field via outflank. In an objectives game, he has to pay attention to it.

When you have an assault army coming at you, you can use the outflank/stubborn to draw off an element of his assault force and hold it for a few turns weakening his assault. And you're missing out on the fact that the second roll (furious charge/counter attack) allows them to get in place as a screen, and then when they get charged, they can use their counter attack ability to use furious charge.

It sucks to not have rocket girl, etc. I understand that. I'd just make Schaffer's Last Chancers count as a veteran squad with a comissar lord...

[Chumbalaya]

"Hey guys, I want to keep using the models that got invalidated by the new book and the bone I got tossed isn't quite what I was looking for. What do you think of introducing these rules for friendly games and one off scenarios."

"STFU NoOb they are t3h pwnz0r and I haet u and they will totally be 1337sauce pr0 haxx0rz sn1p3r"

What a well reasoned response OP got, bravo people.

Penal Troops are a fun unit, they aren't great, just kinda there. There's a reason people don't field them or even totally forget about them, they are a non-entity in the codex. They're like possessed, only slightly less crappy so people think that makes them good, it just makes them less terrible. I think it's a real shame, it's a neat concept with poor execution.

[Kahoolin]

"Hey guys, I want to keep using the models that got invalidated by the new book and the bone I got tossed isn't quite what I was looking for. What do you think of introducing these rules for friendly games and one off scenarios."

"STFU NoOb they are t3h pwnz0r and I haet u and they will totally be 1337sauce pr0 haxx0rz sn1p3r"

What a well reasoned response OP got, bravo people.

This is the BoLS Lounge. It was more like:

*Swivels around in chair and steeples fingers* "Ah, I'm sorry OP. I didn't see you there, hiding in the shadow of my enormous intellect. Your post was amusing, but I'm sorry to have to say that you clearly don't know what you're talking about. You may try to argue with me if you like, but be warned I take such displays of defiance from fools badly and the only result will be a war of cruel sniping for several days, getting more and more fixated on tiny details of each other's responses until everyone has forgotten what was originally at issue, and all that is left is the eternal battle to see WHO IS THE SMARTEST."

Mind you the OP seemed like he'll fit right in

[Old_Paladin]

This is the BoLS Lounge. It was more like:
*Swivels around in chair and steeples fingers* "Ah, I'm sorry OP. I didn't see you there, hiding in the shadow of my enormous intellect. Your post was amusing, but I'm sorry to have to say that you clearly don't know what you're talking about. You may try to argue with me if you like, but be warned I take such displays of defiance from fools badly and the only result will be a war of cruel sniping for several days, getting more and more fixated on tiny details of each other's responses until everyone has forgotten what was originally at issue, and all that is left is the eternal battle to see WHO IS THE SMARTEST."

Bang. On.
That really is how most of us see ourselves; I won't deny that I've been like that more than once. Wait... what was this thread about...?

The only thing I would do with your rule is this:
Keep the normal Penal Legion and say 0-1 squads may upgrade to "Legendary Status" (such as the Last Chancers or the Savlar Chemdogs), using some of your rules; I'd also trim back on so many options (such as the med-kit; a unit that big and complex doesn't need FNP). I would add an option for a psyker/blank. The black gives the unit a 5+ save vs. psykic powers, and the psyker gets toned-down versions of the Primis powers (like 1d3 lighning bolts and can grant the night-fight rules when targeting the psykers unit).

[DarkLink]

This is the BoLS Lounge. It was more like:

*Swivels around in chair and steeples fingers* "Ah, I'm sorry OP. I didn't see you there, hiding in the shadow of my enormous intellect. Your post was amusing, but I'm sorry to have to say that you clearly don't know what you're talking about. You may try to argue with me if you like, but be warned I take such displays of defiance from fools badly and the only result will be a war of cruel sniping for several days, getting more and more fixated on tiny details of each other's responses until everyone has forgotten what was originally at issue, and all that is left is the eternal battle to see WHO IS THE SMARTEST."

Mind you the OP seemed like he'll fit right in

Hmm, now I need a white cat...


Anyways, there are uses for almost any unit in the game (with a few exceptions, like Retributors). Penal legion just suffers from "doesn't really fill a vital role" and "other stuff does its job better, or negated the need for its job". They're not a horrible unit, there are just better things to spend points on.

And Possessed aren't that bad. They're not quite as good a Berzerkers, and are a little more expensive, but anyone who thinks they're the worst unit in the game (I've heard people claim it) needs to try playing Retributors or WH Priests, or other units that actually are horrible.

[Sam]

And Possessed aren't that bad. They're not quite as good a Berzerkers, and are a little more expensive, but anyone who thinks they're the worst unit in the game (I've heard people claim it) needs to try playing Retributors or WH Priests, or other units that actually are horrible.

Glad somebody finally said it. Possessed are a little overpriced and need grenades. That said, they've treated me very well. Last thursday they survived a full 3 rounds with 2000+ pts of units shooting at them and still managed to get me a kill point before they died. A couple weeks ago they took on around 1k pts of nids in assault, complete with a CC tyrant and 2 CC fexs. They killed 24 genestealers and 2 warriors, wounded another warrior, wounded one of the carnifexes, and took the tyrant down to 1 wound. In both cases it was a 560pt squad of possessed (20 models with an Icon of Tzeentch).

In other words: there are better units in the CSM dex competing for that elite slot, but I would take possessed over penal legionnaires any day.

[crazyredpraetorian]

All I have to say is if you are disagreeing with me, it is only because your wrong.

BTW, I really enjoy using the Penal Legion and they have been fairly useful. An extra scoring, outflanking unit is always nice to have. However, comparing the Penal Legion to The Last Chancers is like comparing a BB gun to a shotgun.

[Melissia]

Hmm, now I need a white cat...


Anyways, there are uses for almost any unit in the game (with a few exceptions, like Retributors)

You mean Repentia. Retributors are actually pretty good, certainly one of the most efficient ways to output heavy bolter fire that can hurt any kind of unit in the game (including 3+ saves or better with Divine Guidance). Repentia, on the other hand, just blow, except by abusing apocalypse rules or against incredibly weak army lists or stupid opponents...