Help with Volkite Calivers

[OzDestro]

Hi there,
Pretty sure this is my first post, so firstly - "Hi"!

Look i'm having an issue and I really hope you can help me.
I was reading through the Horus Heresy Book 1 trying (desperately bloody trying) to find out if the Volkite Caliver is the precursor to the Bolter or if the Charger is.

I read the rules and it says the Charger is "Assault" and the Caliver is "Heavy 2".
So if one's assault and one's heavy - what the frakk did Tactical use?

Now i'll be up front and tell you I don't game - I just paint and army build - but I like my units to be accurate!

I like the look of the Caliver and it seems logical that they was the precursor to the Bolter, and the Charger the precursor to the Bolt Pistol.
Right?
The thing is there seems to be no definitive answer.

I turn this over to you, Brothers and Sisters - as honestly - I'm going insane on this!

Thanks so much!

[Wolfshade]

Hello and welcome aboard

Volkite types:

Volkite Serpenta - The pistol variant of a Volkite Weapon. (Think akin to your Bolt Pistol)
Volkite Charger - The assault weapon variant of a Volkite Weapon carried by Space Marine infantry. (This is the "Storm Bolter" variant and is only found on Terminators)
Vokite Caliver - A Volkite heavy weapon variant carried by Space Marine infantry. (This is the standard bolter, carried by legion tactical support)
Volkite Culverin - A Volkite heavy weapon variant carried by Space Marine infantry. (This is the "heavy bolter", carried by legion heavy support)
Volkite Carronade - A Volkite heavy weapon variant, mounted on the Glaive Super-Heavy Special Weapons Tank, a variant of the Fellblade.

Or at least this is what I gleamed from looking at where the weapons sit in the FW website.

[Denzark]

I thought someone on here had mentioned that Volkite was the precursor to Grav guns?

[Sitnam]

I beg to differ Wolfshade, it seems tp me that the charger was a infantry weapon amd the caliver a speciak weapon. I gather this from lexicanum and warhammer wiki and I dont havr my book. I do know legion support squads use calivers and the Medusan Immortals of the IH can take chargers in place of bolters

[YorkNecromancer]

Hello there.

There is a definite answer: Volkite technology is nothing to do with Bolter technology. They are two completely different types of weapon; the Bolter uses gyrojets, while the Volkite uses a super-high-tech particle beam.

Volkite weapons disappeared after the Heresy because the knowledge of how to manufacture them was utterly lost, rather than them being a prototype version of the Boltgun.

As for what Tacticals used? They used Bolters and nothing else; the equipping of Tactical Sqauds with special and heavy weapons is a modern conceit largely developed by Roboute Guilliman after the publication of the Codex Astartes. Before the Codex, Tactical marines did not use anything except Bolters, unless they were attached to a specialist Tactical Support Squad (who all carried the same weapon, be that Plasma, Melta, Flamer, or Volkite).

If you read the actual army lists and weapon descriptions in HH: Betrayal, this is all very clear. Volkites are another special weapon type, like Flamers, Grav weapons, Plasma guns, and Melta guns. They are nothing like Bolters, have nothing to do with them, and do not have the slightest aesthetic similarity to them, being loaded with four cylindrical batteries, rather than a clip of gyrojet shells.

As for them being the precursor to Grav weapons, that's incorrect too. The precursor to Grav weapons is Grav weapons, which were different, but available in the Heresy. The closest thing to Volkite weaponry is Necron Tesla weaponry, which has very similar Str, AP, and a very similar special rule.

Volkite are a faded, forgotten tech, that led nowhere, and has no equivelant or 'descendants' in the modern Imperium.

[Wolfshade]

It depends what you mean by precursor. They are certainly technologically far more advanced than the humble bolter, but they were the precusor in terms of "standard armament".

From FW:

'Volkite' is an arcane Mecanicum term referring to a variety of thermal ray weapons of ancient Martian provenance. Once commonplace amongst the Legiones Astartes, demand has outstripped supply and the Terran bolter has superceded the Volkite amongst all but specialist Space Marine units.

So as they are a "thermal ray" weapon, perhaps they are more akin to the melta weaponry?

[YorkNecromancer]

They are certainly technologically far more advanced than the humble bolter, but they were the precusor in terms of "standard armament".

They were never a 'standard' armament; the army lists make that quite clear. Volkite weaponry is unavailable to any squads type except Tactical Support and Heavy Weapons. They were clearly specialist equipment (and their description in the book makes this clear - they were hard to produce, and their high costs of production restricted their dispersal through the Legions).

The Bolter has always been the only 'standard issue' Marine weapon.

So as they are a "thermal ray" weapon, perhaps they are more akin to the melta weaponry?

No. They're something completely different. Volkite weaponry has no modern equivalent, apart from Necron Tesla technology.

[Wolfshade]

Sitnam: yes you are quite right, I was confused as they are listed in the "Legion Terminator Squad" section, the description is quite clear:

To build a Legion Tactical Support Squad, using the rules in Betrayal, combine these [Volkite Charger] weapon sets with our MkII, MkIII and MkIV Space Marine armour sets, and MkII, MkIII and MkIV Legion armour sets.

York: Yup you are quite right, I was confusing myself in terms of "standard" armament. It was standard in the same way that flamers/meltas etc are "standard". Even the Thunder Warriors had boltguns of discription.

[AirHorse]

From what I read in hh:betrayal(and I wolfshade quoted it) the impression I got was that at the beginning of the legiones astares, when they were much smaller, they were standard issue. But as they grew the complex manufacturing process meant the bolter became that standard weapon.

The thing you have to remember about the HH army lists is that they are for the legions at the point the heresy began. Which is several centuries into the operations of the legions!!

Definitely agree that there doesn't seem to be a modern equivalent to the volkite though!

[Houghten]

I was confusing myself in terms of "standard" armament. It was standard in the same way that flamers/meltas etc are "standard". Even the Thunder Warriors had boltguns of discription.

Except then why does it say they have been superseded by the Terran bolter?

Edit: AirHorse puts it better than I can.

Even the Thunder Warriors had boltguns of discription.

Well, of course they did. The Thunder Warriors were just for Unification and hadn't reached Mars - how would they get any Volkite weapons?