Allied forces etiquette?

[Mr Mystery]

Afternoon.

Just read a thread about a specific allies situation, where a Dark Angel player wants to field Centurions.

Having contributed to that specific instance, I want to explore peoples general attitudes to the fielding of allied contingents, including your local 'do's and dont's'

Personally, I have't used allies. No real reason for it, other than I just haven't got round to really figuring out the rules for it. Plus, as a Necron player I don't feel I need any.

But I know many gamers do use them, and just as many see the whole thing as a bit of an abomination.

How about you? Is it case dependant? Does it matter whether the allies are fluff based, or just power based? Does it depend on the gaming environment? Would you rather see the concept just binned?

Just one caveat. Yes Tyranid players, we know you can't ally. Yes, it does suck. But no reason to go on about it in a thread discussing something which sadly your army can't do.

[Wolfshade]

I don't have an issue with them per se. But there is a problem with space marines allied with a different sort of space marine.

The trouble comes where the allies are all the same colour and have no discernable differences, so it is very hard to know if you are dealing with blue ultramarines or blue salamanders as what chapter tactics the units have. And it can be asy to lose track of it from both a controlling player and the opponent, especially when it comes to choosing target priorities.

The thing with the fluff is that in most cases there is an example, my own bane is common place look at Armageddon 2 & 3, the black crusades etc.

I sometimes thing that the armies have a specific strength and weakness to balance them. Consider the Tau, arguably the best ranged force in the game. Point and click it is often described as, yet get in to CC and they crupple, so imagaine if they could ally with the undesputed masters of CC, tyranids. *shudder*

I think Nids are unable to ally because they are so good at CC the only thing that makes them balanced is their "weakness" in ranged shooting.

[YorkNecromancer]

Love allies. Think they're great. Don't care if they're fluff or power based, because it reminds me of old-skool 40K where everyone could ally with everyone. I love the idea of themed armies, especially the bonkers ones that make no sense (like IG with Blood Axes) because coming up with reasons why these factions who hate each other have allied is great fun. If someone doesn't get why it's fun, fair enough. If you don't like it when Judge Dredd shows up in Gotham, that's your perogative; no judgement here.

If everything's the same colour scheme, well, again, just be clear so everyone knows what is what. My Deathwatch do look spectacularly similar to my Iron Hands, and have the same colours as my Sisters of Battle, so it can be confusing.

As for no Necron allies; madness. Use IG and run an SG1 themed army! Go'auld FTW!

As for Tyranids, the problem to me seems that for reasons unknown to me, people don't do 2000 pts games any more, so Tyranids can't benefit from the double Force Org, which would really help them out a lot. Six Elites units for Tyranids means they don't need Allies ever again.

[Denzark]

In tournaments I expect to see power based combinations. I don't like it, but i expect it - I just prefer people not to try and give some bonkers fluff reason for it. You have taken that combo (in the vast majority of cases) to enhane your wins. You just don't get a bunch of nob bikers following a necron army around. Ever. Neither would imperials ever take stock with xenos unless against some hideous threat - ie chaos or tyranids.

As to colours, I think you saw a thread recently about GW making a guy play his Ravenwing as Whitescars becuase fo the paint scheme. They are being quite clear at their own events that counts-as is verboten. DA in random made up colours is good, DA as an absolute identical codex authorised Whitescars paint scheme is confusing (allegedly).

I think that is fine. The ability to represent mixed imperial forces is however quite good and yes I like tio harken back to 2ed.

I guess best allies ettiquette is be honest. Blood Axe with IG is clearly human bond troops. Nob bikes with 367.5 doom scythes is power gaming.

[euansmith]

The appropriate etiquette is, "Tau always dress to the right".

With the new supplements coming out I think 40k may finally collapse in to a grey goo where all armies are the same, with no weaknesses.

[Popsical]

GW couldn't care less for etiquette of that kind, as it would limit sales. Expect the allies matrix to become more lax over time to accommodate more sales.
They simply let the gamers themselves decide what is acceptable. This is fine in principle but allows for disagreements in groups that can fester and cause bitterness, afterall not everyone can just walk away and find another group. Us hobbyists are just impossible to please it seems.
Personally the allies idea is great for me but the matrix is far too open. Id prefer a far more limited choice. The 2000pt second org is just another sales gimmick also, as GW realised few people wanted to buy 8 troop choices to get a second set of elites etc. Sadly these two things benefit power gamers far more than other types of hobbyists.

[Chris Copeland]

It's case dependent. I fully expect to see allies for powerful combos at tournaments. I'm less interested in playing such combos in friendly pick up games. That being said, I LOVE playing against fully painted armies... so if I have a chance to get in a game against someone with a fully-painted army it's unlikely that I'll turn up my nose at anything...

I also love a good narrative. I think a lot of my mates around here feel the same way. It's cool to see an allied force that has a good story behind it (and is fully painted). Examples might include a Sisters/Gray Knights force, a Blood Angels/Dark Angels force (harkening back to the old Angels of Death codex), or even a Tau/IG force (maybe one where the humans have gone over to the the side of the Tau and marked their uniforms and gear as such). I can think of a LOT of allied combos I'd love to see and play against.

[Aventine]

You just don't get a bunch of nob bikers following a necron army around. Ever. ..... Nob bikes with 367.5 doom scythes is power gaming.

I don't know... a Warboss and a Destroyer Lord have pretty similar prerogatives...

[Arkhan Land]

Im for the wackiest of alliances so long as you make an effort to make the following work: Fluff, Models/Representation, Deployment
the deployment part refers to how you actually organize your allies. Just because your Orks and Rines are allies doesnt mean they should setup close to each other and hold hands. I accept that sometimes in a war between several races in pitched battles warlords often accept the mose dire of alliances but they should still be represented as two separate forces engaging against the same opponent.With the exception of course with imperium allies I see most other alliances about two forces arriving on the battlefield seperately and striving for the same outcome, not necessarily bonding together cohesively.

[Anggul]

I think the issue is that allies are used for power gaming silliness far more than they're used for fluffy coolness.

Imperials allying with Imperials, that's pretty much always cool. Chaos and Chaos. Also good. Eldar and Imperial/Tau, yeah, the Eldar are known for turning up and helping others with something because further down the line it benefits them (or in the case of Biel-Tan, the very obvious fact that they don't want Orks messing up the place).

Necrons... I can't really see any allies seeming right with them. Allies of Desperation is fine, but they have far too many Allies of Convenience. They'll ally at a push (a really, really big push) but they really aren't the friendliest of sorts even in the context of 40k. Also they just don't look right next to most other armies. Something about the Necron aesthetic just doesn't gel with other forces, every allied Necrons/whatever army I've seen just looks really out of place and silly in my opinion. They really don't look right next to Orks, that's for sure.

Allies of desperation needs to be more widespread. It means the armies have to work together but still keep their distance from one another, which is exactly what they would do in the backstory.