Fortifocation Questions?

[chicop76]

I have been glancing over the fortification rules and noticed that they are much better than people I seen actually use them.

Orignally I never considered using a building until tonight. I think it's rather good depending on what army you run.

To start off it seems you can damn near plop your building halfway in the middle of the board. That means possible 3 ft range from the building in any game you may play. The only draw back it has to be 3" away from another fortificatio. Heck you can put an aegis defense line in the middle of the board you wanted.

What's even better as long as you have scout you can instantly be inside even though their are enemy models near the building. I am trying to figure if the 1" rule would matter. Infiltatte I can see, but with scout that's really good. That means greyknight Paladins can start in the middle of the board.

It doesn't matter for 12 " scout movers, but rather good for 6" scout movers.

This means for example I can plop a fortress of redemption in the middle of the board and have it full of kroot or genestealers.

This would be good for melee armies who could start in the middle of the board and have a huge piece of terrain in the middle blocking Los.

[Caitsidhe]

I have been glancing over the fortification rules and noticed that they are much better than people I seen actually use them.

How much have you seen people used them? They are, in fact, rather a mixed bag with some SERIOUS problems.

To start off it seems you can damn near plop your building halfway in the middle of the board. That means possible 3 ft range from the building in any game you may play. The only draw back it has to be 3" away from another fortification. Heck you can put an aegis defense line in the middle of the board you wanted.

You can, but there is no guarantee that it is YOUR infiltrators that are going to get in there first. Currently the way the RAW is written, nothing prevents someone else from deploying into your Fortification. I don't know about you but I don't want to have a 50/50 chance (if the other guy also has Infiltrators) of having my opponent shooting at me with those any gun emplacements and/or probably staring down my throat with something I can't ignore. It is nice to have this option but it would have been a far better investment if they stated in the rules or the Faq that opponents treat Fortifications that you pay for as your units and thus must deploy the proper distances from them. So far they have not done that. *I myself have often deployed into opponent's Fortifications and I can assure you the result is quite devastating.

This means for example I can plop a fortress of redemption in the middle of the board and have it full of kroot or genestealers.

I suppose so, yeah if someone else didn't do it first.

This would be good for melee armies who could start in the middle of the board and have a huge piece of terrain in the middle blocking Los.

This is also true. The real problem is they treat Buildings like vehicles except for the different chart. While the Aegis and Skyshield are exceptions to this (and I use them frequently) the Bastion and FoR tend to be nothing but deathtraps wherein the people inside are often unable to shoot, assault when they need to do so, and/or wasted. Consider that the kinds of troops that need the most protection are exactly the kind of troops likely to be killed when the building comes down. The kinds of troops most likely to survive a destroyed building are the ones kind of wasted in there.

I've attempted the "head start" tactic (I talk about it in a post sometime back about how the Skyshield is actually the best assault vehicle in the game), and it isn't that great with buildings. I only start the Aegis that far forward when either I haven't placed a Quad or Icarus in it or my opponent doesn't have Infiltrators, and I'm likely to go first. I'm willing to put a Skyshield out there and take the risk a bit more often because I'm generally using Huron to infiltrate a D3 units forward. If my opponent has infiltrators too, I make sure to place it as close to some other LOS blocking terrain as possible so if I get beat to the Skyshield my own infantry surge on to it very quickly to retake it. It is all about options and the Skyshield works best because it IS NOT treated as a building, holds a LOT of models, and has an invulnerable save. Best of all, it CANNOT be destroyed and the people on it never feel any of those effects which prevent them from doing things.

[chicop76]

You can't infiltrate into enemy buildings, which means they can't jack it.

However they can possibly jack your pad however.

Although with the pad and aegis you will have to still stay out of the required range and scout as normal.

The major differance is with the building you can easily pop inside with scout or infiltrate.

Not assaulting out of a building is a big drag. However it's still a viable option for Grey Knights which helps with their limited range. 3 scouting purifiers inside a fortress of redeption in the middle of the board is still not a bad tactic. They have good range and not an easy unit to assault.

Still I see your point, but I wouldn't mind kroot in a bastion in a foward postion, or some pathfinders a little bit back within 36" range.

[daboarder]

You can't infiltrate into enemy buildings, which means they can't jack it.

Got a rule quote?

[Magpie]

Currently the way the RAW is written, nothing prevents someone else from deploying into your Fortification.

Not so. The deployment rules say quite clearly you can't embark enemy buildings with Scout or Infiltrate. What it does say and might be where the confusion is coming from is that an enemy fortification is only considered and enemy UNIT if it is occupied. (Page 121). THis would place restrictions on the Scout and Infil moves.

Pretty sure you can deploy onto an AGL or Skyshield without restriction beyond the normal deployment rules, as can the enemy. Your not "within" a skyshield landing pad.

I certainly agree tho' that buildings are death traps and things generally end badly for the occupants.

[Caitsidhe]

The problem is exactly what you just said Magpie. The rules only consider them enemy if they are OCCUPIED. This means you can infiltrate into them just fine as long as the other guy hasn't done so already. It needs a Faq.

[Tynskel]

I disagree. It is your fortification until Turn 1.

[Boscolamb]

You can't infiltrate into enemy buildings, which means they can't jack it.

Not assaulting out of a building is a big drag. However it's still a viable option for Grey Knights which helps with their limited range. 3 scouting purifiers inside a fortress of redeption in the middle of the board is still not a bad tactic. They have good range and not an easy unit to assault.

Just curious, but how do the GK Purifiers qualify for the Scout special rule?

[Houghten]

A Grand Master can dish out Scout to D3 units, though it usually gets overlooked in favour of the option that lets him make them Troops instead.

[Nabterayl]

I concur with Tynskel and Magpie. The fact that the fortification is not an enemy unit unless occupied does not mean that an unoccupied fortification cannot be an enemy fortification. Unit != fortification.