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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by NockerGeek View Post
    let's face it: a PR department's job isn't to discuss things with the public. It's to try to project a particular image for the company
    Public image of a company, and in a situation such as GW's where they have a reputation of being the big bag meanie that doesn't care about it's fans and is solely motivated by the almighty dollar, one would think they could be more pro-active in protecting the image of the company than being silent until forced into responding to allegations (if they even bother to do that)

    Quote Originally Posted by NockerGeek View Post
    For the company, it means being willing to open up to discussion with the fanbase more. For the fans, it means putting down the torches and pitchforks, laying off the vitriol, and learning to act like reasonable people when such an opportunity arises.
    Pretty much what I was getting at, though you state it much better as I had neglected to mention that the communicantion needed to be a 2-way street.
    Richard | Co-Host: Preferred Enemies Podcast | www.preferredenemies.com


  2. #72

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    yeah, how's that profit only motive working now?
    "But I tell you, we were gods once, and we shall be gods again". - In defense of the future: a Logical Discourse.

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by NockerGeek View Post
    I do not like that Faeit212 and BoLS are down (and I'm unaware of a third site involved, but please keep me informed), possibly permanently in Faeit's case.
    GW had nothing to do with why BOLS was down. Pure coincidence that BoLS had technical difficulties the same time Google took down Faeit.

    Quote Originally Posted by NockerGeek View Post
    That said, I cannot blame GW for taking the legal action that they are obligated to take to protect their copyrighted materials, nor can I blame Google for responding to that action in the manner that they are obligated to do so by the current law.
    Why do people keep thinking that Nafka was violating GW's IP/trademark/whatever? Nafka wasn't selling or profiting off of GW's products, or even distributing their products in a way that would hinder GW's profits. If Nafka was claiming ownership, or if they leaked actual pdfs of the new codex, sure, but I've yet to see anyone point out what actual law Nafka was breaking, and I have seen some people point out that multiple countries legally protect what he was doing as fair use. So why do people keep assuming that this is like the Chapterhouse case where GW had to act in order to protect their trademarks? This and that have very little in common. And, no, Google is not obliged to do any of this. SOPA and PIPA were, based on my understanding, both designed to allow companies like GW to do exactly this with impunity, and those were both shot down.

    In fact, unless you're an IP lawyer, none of us here should be laying down any judgement either way, because none of us actually knows what the hell we're talking about.


    Now, Nafka might have violated his terms of use policy with google. That's very different from doing something illegal.
    I am the Hammer. I am the right hand of my Emperor. I am the tip of His spear, I am the gauntlet about His fist. I am the woes of daemonkind. I am the Hammer.

  4. #74
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    I don't really know. But I can't see the fan blogs dying out. What I can see is nearly all blogs going to be readable for registered users only soon...

  5. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by NockerGeek View Post
    Oh, I absolutely think that GW needs to try to figure out where the leaks in their distribution system are and quash those if they want to fix this problem. Alternately, I think they need to go back to a longer pre-release window, where there was a good month or more of information on a release before something went up for sale. One or both of these would have prevented a situation like this. The former would have prevented the leak in the first place, and the latter would have made the leak unnecessary, or at least far less important.

    I do not like that Faeit212 and BoLS are down (and I'm unaware of a third site involved, but please keep me informed), possibly permanently in Faeit's case. That said, I cannot blame GW for taking the legal action that they are obligated to take to protect their copyrighted materials, nor can I blame Google for responding to that action in the manner that they are obligated to do so by the current law. I don't like current IP law, and I would love for it to be less restrictive, but both companies are playing in the legal pool that exists, not in the fantasy one I would like to see. As I've said earlier, this was a lose/lose decision for GW - no one was going to come out of this happy. However, anyone who thinks they were going to err on the side of not protecting their IP hasn't been paying attention.

    Short version: it sucks all around, but it sucks the way the law says it has to suck.
    Just wanted to clarify that I wasn't aiming my comment at you. I understand and agree, to a certain extent, with what you've been saying. I should quote more often.

  6. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkLink View Post
    In fact, unless you're an IP lawyer, none of us here should be laying down any judgement either way, because none of us actually knows what the hell we're talking about.
    Exactly. Threads like these are pure speculation from people who have no clue about the legal system, yet they feel compelled to comment.

  7. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkLink View Post
    GW had nothing to do with why BOLS was down. Pure coincidence that BoLS had technical difficulties the same time Google took down Faeit.
    True. The timing was quite unfortunately coincidental. I'm glad the two are unrelated.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkLink View Post
    Why do people keep thinking that Nafka was violating GW's IP/trademark/whatever? Nafka wasn't selling or profiting off of GW's products, or even distributing their products in a way that would hinder GW's profits. If Nafka was claiming ownership, or if they leaked actual pdfs of the new codex, sure, but I've yet to see anyone point out what actual law Nafka was breaking, and I have seen some people point out that multiple countries legally protect what he was doing as fair use. So why do people keep assuming that this is like the Chapterhouse case where GW had to act in order to protect their trademarks? This and that have very little in common. And, no, Google is not obliged to do any of this. SOPA and PIPA were, based on my understanding, both designed to allow companies like GW to do exactly this with impunity, and those were both shot down.
    This has nothing to do with whether or not Natfka was making money on GW's work or not. It's that the blog was distributing content from a GW product that GW hadn't released for sale yet. Fair use doesn't cover it because it wasn't released to the public at the time it was posted. That means that, at the time, it was still considered confidential material and not subject to fair use protection. The DMCA notice was served several days before the White Dwarf street date. As I've pointed out elsewhere, it would be like distributing a segment of a movie for free before the movie had opened without the producers' permission, or releasing a chapter of a book online before it was on shelves without the publisher's permission. Whether you do it for free or not has no bearing in this instance. At the time, no one had permission to distribute the contents of White Dwarf to the public besides GW, which makes it a copyright infringement. And again, GW didn't pull down Natfka's site. They requested that Google take down the post in question, which they're obligated to do if they want to remain a safe harbor under Title II of the DMCA. Google just decided to take it a step further than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkLink View Post
    In fact, unless you're an IP lawyer, none of us here should be laying down any judgement either way, because none of us actually knows what the hell we're talking about.
    You don't have to be an IP lawyer to figure this one out. The law is relatively cut and dry on this one, and a quick read of Title II of the DMCA (which isn't all that long, really) shows that GW's legal team pretty much followed their end of it to the letter. Is it good law? Eh, I'm not a fan of how current US copyright laws are skewed towards content owners (not necessarily creators) far more than originally intended, but at present, it is what it is. GW played their part, Google played their part. It's easy to be mad at GW for taking an action that led to the shutdown of a somewhat popular blog, but this is really a case of, "Don't hate the player; hate the game."

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkLink View Post
    Now, Nafka might have violated his terms of use policy with google. That's very different from doing something illegal.
    By posting material which infringes someone else's copyright, or at the very least draws multiple DMCA takedown requests over time, probably so.

    And let me be clear about one thing: I'm not a fan of what happened. I happen to like Faeit212 a lot; I checked it at least once a day, if not more, and as a beginning High Elf player, I liked seeing the previews. I liked seeing the scans from Issue 400 as well, where the new Tau models were revealed - images which also disappeared off of Faeit212 a few days later (so I suspect another DMCA notice). I don't think what Natfka did was particularly wrong or
    should be considered a violation, but what I think and what I'd like aren't the same as what the law is. Everyone lost on this one: GW lost some good faith among its fanbase (even though it was from doing something they were perfectly within their rights to do), the community lost a great rumors site, and more ammo was thrown into the pro/anti-GW fight that always tends to erupt when things like this happen. If I had to make a judgment, it's that we all lost because of current IP law.
    My Armies: Tau (complete), Chaos Space Marines (complete), Black Templars (2012/2013 project)
    My Blog: NockerGeek.net | Our Podcast: Preferred Enemies - http://www.preferredenemies.com

  8. #78

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    It's 12 in Australia. And our money's worth more internationally

  9. #79
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    Brueckenkopf-online, the most influential german site for Tabletop News, announced that they will no longer feature any rumors and leaks from GW:
    [url]http://www.brueckenkopf-online.com/?p=80856[/url]

  10. #80

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    I don't know how the hobby will possibly survive without blogs.

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