Sunshark or Razorshark

[ElectricPaladin]

More will join this conversation as the Tau codex spreads, but I've got one in front of me and I feel like starting it now.

First, let's summarize the contenders:

In the bomb corner, the sunshark bomber. With 3 hull points and an 11/10/10 profile, this is not a terribly durable flyer. It comes with a networked markerlight, which means that it can boost its own BS and fire its own seeker missiles, in addition to laying down marker tokens for other units to exploit. The bomber's offensive arsenal is rounded out with the pulse bomb generator (5/5 Large Blast, and unlike any other bomb in the game, it reloads on a 2+) and a missile pod (36'' 7/4 Assault 2) (which can be cheaply upgraded to a twin-linked missile pod).

The bomber comes with a pair of passengers, jet pack infantry drones that can turbo-boost like jetbikes armed with twin-linked ion rifles (30'' 7/4 Rapid Fire or 8/4 Heavy 1, Gets Hot, Blast). Note that while they are embarked, the drones can fire as though they were passengers... passengers who still have the relentless special rule, which means that their guns may as well be mounted on the bomber as well.

In the strike fighter corner, the razorshark. The same fragile profile. Armed with a burst cannon (18'' 5/5 Assault 4) (can be traded, cheaply, for a missile pod) and a quad ion turret (30'' 7/4 Heavy 4 or 8/4 Heavy 1, Gets Hot, Large Blast). Also, for what it's worth, a pair of seeker missiles.

Both can take upgrades from the vehicle battle systems list. The only ones that are relevant are the automated repair (can remove immobilized and weapon destroyed results, but can't restore hull points), decoy launchers (4++ vs Interceptor weapons - basically an auto-include for flyers), and disruption pod (+1 to the cover save - also an auto-include to improve Dive! saves).

In my opinion, neither flyer is really a game changer on the level of, say, a stormraven or a doom scythe. Neither carries troops (though the bomber does have a pair of jet-boosting models that count as a denial unit...). However, I hesitate to dismiss either of them. They both field some tasty weaponry, and we all know by now that when it comes to flyers, durability is far less important than timing - and that decoy launchers upgrade can give a flyer a fighting chance.

Now, on to meat of the matter: which one is better? Obviously, we all want to magnetize the cr@p out of this kit, but it's still an interesting question.

Like I said, I won't dismiss either model. The fighter is pretty tasty. The burst cannon isn't too exciting - like their old codex, the new one provides a plethora of strength 5 shooting - but missile pods are never to be sneezed at, especially one on a flying platform. Strength 7 shots will pop many enemy flyers, and with 36'' range and a flyer's speed (and what looks like a 360° turret for that missile pod mount) the razor shark can easily engage almost any flying target on the board. That quad ion turret is also pretty nice. Four Strength 7 AP 4 shots will terrify GEQs and threaten MEQs. The large blast version doesn't pierce 3+ armor, but a Strength 8 Large Blast is still pretty exciting. I can see fielding the flyer.

However, I think the bomber is the clear winner.

The bomb itself isn't too exciting. Like I said, the Tau already have a huge amount of 5/5 shooting, and dropping a 5/5 bomb on a squad of MEQs isn't any more effective than, say, rapid-firing into it, though a flyer's ability to deliver that blast where you need it (say, on top of a squad of heavy weapons guys hiding in your opponent's backfield) is not to be ignored.

The "secondary" armaments, however, really impress me. A twin-linked missile pod? That's a scary weapon that will pop most other flyers and threaten almost any model on the board. The Tau have been using the XV8-mounted version of this weapon - the "deathwind configuration" for a long time, to great effect. The intercepter drones are also really exciting. Remember, they are relentless passengers that can fire while attached to the bomber. Their guns are basically mini quad ion turrets - which makes the razor-shark's main attraction all but obsolete - and they have the added utility of also being able to detach and contest objectives or generally harass the enemy. And they are fast little buggers. and let's not forget the utility of the markerlights. They either make the sunshark markerlight-independent - which lets you focus your markerlights on other targets - or let it act as a secondary source of marker tokens for the rest of your army. Wonderfully versatile.

Versatility is ultimately why I prefer the sunshark by a great deal. It kills flyers, it threatens infantry in the backfield, and it has the weaponry to hunt down vehicles as well. It comes with its own markerlights. It carries denial units with tasty guns. What's not to love?

But... what do you think? Agree? Disagree? Did I get a rule wrong? This is a forum - let's get foruming!

[gcsmith]

Just a note, no drones can contest objectives, and inteceptor drones are drones...

Otherwise good summation.

Also remember you don't need markerlights to fire seekers anymore. They just make seekers ignore cover.

[ElectricPaladin]

Just a note, no drones can contest objectives, and inteceptor drones are drones...

Otherwise good summation.

Also remember you don't need markerlights to fire seekers anymore. They just make seekers ignore cover.

Thank you for clearing those points up! I'm still working my way through the codex, in a totally ADHD "flip through it and read what catches my eye" sort of way. It's been a rough week, and focusing is completely beyond me at the moment.

[gcsmith]

Thank you for clearing those points up! I'm still working my way through the codex, in a totally ADHD "flip through it and read what catches my eye" sort of way. It's been a rough week, and focusing is completely beyond me at the moment.

Can't wait to have the book in front of me

[Houghten]

Wait, the overcharged profile of a quad ion turret is the same as the overcharged profile of a twin-linked ion rifle?
What?

[ElectricPaladin]

Wait, the overcharged profile of a quad ion turret is the same as the overcharged profile of a twin-linked ion rifle?

What?

Not quite.

The quad ion turret is a large blast.

The ion rifle is a small blast.

Do two small blasts equal a large blast? Not quite, no, but a single large blast isn't that much better than a small blast, and the twin-linkage means that you're a lot less likely to lose a hull point (actually the drone would get fried, not the flyer...) to an unlucky 1.

[Anggul]

The Sunshark seems best as the Drones and TL Missile Pod give it about as much S7 firepower as the Razorshark, but with more utility in other areas too.

They're both far too feeble though. I don't know why GW seem to think Tau should have such low armour on their flyers, there's just no reason for it when Imperial Guard get AV12 on their flyers. It's not like the Tau are super-quick and nimble like Eldar or Dark Eldar flyers, so there's just no point in having them so flimsy. Even with the Decoy Launchers they're just going to be shot down with ease by any anti-air firepower. Quad-Guns, Hyperios/Sabre platforms, Broadsides, other Flyers are all going to shoot them down with incredible ease. Just not worth it when Broadsides can have Velocity Trackers (although I'm rather annoyed that they're only S8 rather than S9).

[ElectricPaladin]

They're both far too feeble though. I don't know why GW seem to think Tau should have such low armour on their flyers, there's just no reason for it when Imperial Guard get AV12 on their flyers. It's not like the Tau are super-quick and nimble like Eldar or Dark Eldar flyers, so there's just no point in having them so flimsy.

To be fair, a 4++ vs. weapons with Interceptor is a 3-point upgrade. +1 to its cover saves (making the Dive! save a 4+) is 15 points. That's pretty much as "super nimble" as you get. The trick with the Tau flyer is going to be to make sure that when it arrives, it or the rest of your army can take out all major threats. So it flies on, 4++s the quad gun, and drops a bomb on top of it, killing off the unit. Or maybe even flies over, 4++s the quad gun, drops the bomb, and immediately flies off the board again. Wash, rinse, repeat until its safe for the bomber to stick around.

I agree with you, though. I think there are ways to use the bomber effectively, but it is a little too flimsy. The Tau flyer really ought to have been 12/11/10, at least. 11/10/10 is just asking for it.

I'm rather annoyed that they're only S8 rather than S9.

Meh... I think they're ok. Strength 9 would have been neat, but Strength 8 can still knock nearly anything out of the sky. Bring a hammerhead if you really want Strength 10.

[ElectricPaladin]

Since I just bought a kit and have seen that it cannot be easily magnetized, I'd like to reawaken this conversation. Which do you think is better?

Tynskel made a good point, noting that the razorshark's quad ion turret has somewhat better rotation than the drones (which, combined with its significant range and more shots per round) causes it to come out a little better in comparison.

Let's do Pros and Cons:

Razorshark
Pros
• Quad ion turret is a very good ion weapon (though probably not quite as good as a hammerhead's ion cannon or a riptide's ion accelerator).
Cons
• Nose armaments are underwhelming (burst cannon = meh, single missile pod = better).

Sunshark
Pros
• Tail weaponry is impressive (missile pod = good, twin-linked missile pod = great).
• Decent ion weaponry on drones.
• Drones can either stay on the wing to threaten flyers or pop off to become fast-moving and deadly ground troops.
Cons
• The bomb itself is kind of meh (more Strength 5 shooting... yay?) but the ability to regenerate it on a 2+ adds versatility.

Ok... this list is causing me to lean back towards my certainty that the bomber is the right choice. If I really want powerful ion weaponry on the battlefield, I probably ought to bring an ionhead or a riptide with ion accelerator. The quad ion gun is good... but it's just not the best ion weapon the Tau have in their arsenal. The sunshark's general versatility - even if the bomb itself is just "ok" - is really attractive.

[wittdooley]

I think the sunshark looks pretty great especially when you consider it's drones, when detached, give you two more models with slyfire and interceptor.

With fliers in 6E, I always feel like I need at least two or three things that can bring down a flyer. The Sunshark gives you three models.