Counter to Mech Ork/Speed Freaks

[Lerra]

What's a good way to counter Speed Freaks using Deathwing/Loganwing? Here is the core of the Speed Freaks list (1500 points):

1 Battlewagon with some ork that gives anything within 6" a cover save
5-6 Trucks full of boyz that follow the battlewagon around
Gazghul

How do you counter a list like that with an elite assault army?

[sukigod]

Pop the wagons as soon as possible and make anything Slow and Purposeful slog it.

Try and always get the charge?

If you can't get the charge, run away and make him/her chase you.

Switch from an elite assault army to something else less elite, more spread out, and with some high-power ranged units?

BTW - what force is your elite assault army? That may help in determining how to deal.

Good Luck!

[Lerra]

I run Deathwing Dark Angels (or "logan wing" which is space wolf terminators in drop pods). I've got about 45 terminator models, 9 bikes, 1 attack bike, 4 land speeders, 1 rhino, 1 vindicator, 1 Land Raider Crusader, 3 Dreadnoughts with MM/SB, 7 Drop Pods, and enough HQ models to run nearly any HQ.

As far as ranged power, I've got the vindicator, the land speeders, and terminators with heavy weapons, but thats about it.

[Nabterayl]

Assault cannons, mathematically speaking, are the ideal weapon for popping trukks. It sounds like you've got room for plenty of those in your list.

Killing the trukks is definitely the big one. The thing about trukk mobz is that they aren't a single unit. It sounds obvious, but you can turn it to your advantage. If two mobz of 12 orks charge you at the same time, you won't notice much difference compared to one mob of 24 orks. But if you charge, the orks have the following problems:

1. There's only twelve of them - you have one assault phase to hit them hard before their mates can come to their aid.
2. You only have to kill two boyz to make the unit no longer Fearless.
3. You only have to kill seven boyz to send the unit permanently Falling Back.

As long as you can pop the trukks, it shouldn't be that hard for an elite assault unit to turn 12 boyz into 5 boyz in a single phase. That effectively kills the unit even though terminators can't literally sweep it (since the mob will probably fail its Morale test if you've killed seven boyz). Even if he's running his mobz in tandem so he can counter-charge with a fresh mob of 12, that's a good kill.

[Confuddled]

Pods are great!

The trick, of course, is to drop empty pods.

Even allowing for scatter, 2-3 empty drop pods are great for setting up an obstacle course for that great big cluster of trukks, with gaps being plugged by Land Speeders as far as possible.

That forces him to either:

1) Waste time going through the pods, or;

2) Going around the pods, which would at least slow him down and possibly break up that great big cluster of vehicles.


In the meantime, do your best to whittle him down from maximum range. The whole point is to break up his assault so he doesn't hit you in a single mob of 40+ Ork boyz.


Works best if you get first turn, of course, but 3 pods and a Land Speeder or 3 can still put up a very respectable road-block if he goes first.

[Lerra]

Brilliant. That's a great idea Confuddled.

I love assault cannons and have been known to spam them. The tricky part is the 24" range. If I fail to pop the trucks - or even if I pop one but not the rest - I'm only 24" away, and he's likely to charge me on his turn (especially if he pops Waaaagh!)

[Nabterayl]

I love assault cannons and have been known to spam them. The tricky part is the 24" range. If I fail to pop the trucks - or even if I pop one but not the rest - I'm only 24" away, and he's likely to charge me on his turn (especially if he pops Waaaagh!)

True, but if your assault cannons are mounted on fast-moving Land Speeders or a Land Raider Crusader, he's much less likely to be able to do anything even if he does get his charge off. I have to say, I like the drop pod idea too.

[Confuddled]

Brilliant.

Why thank you!

I love pods too, and while an all-pod army is fairly easy to counter, fielding 1-3 pods gives you a fair amount of tactical flexibility – the Inertial Guidance System is great for deploying extra terrain with a fair amount of flexibility, and all-round AV12 is nice too.

(AV12 is especially nice when you’re up against Orks – rokkits are unreliable and force him to drive at cruising speed, so the only things that can actually hurt the pod are Warbosses and Klaw Nobz who might actually penetrate a pod’s armour – you don’t have to worry about the pod being glanced to death before the Klaws strike.

And if you’re lucky, he might just blow the pod up and kill a few Boyz in the process!!)

The tricky part is the 24" range. If I fail to pop the trucks - or even if I pop one but not the rest - I'm only 24" away, and he's likely to charge me on his turn (especially if he pops Waaaagh!)

Well, yeah, the 24” range is pesky.

It doesn’t help that there’s always a chance that a wrecked or exploding trukk is going to careen towards something that you’d rather not see get charged on your opponent’s turn.

Which is why I’d propose throwing up drop-pod/Speeder road-blocks.
1) He’s already getting a 4+ cover save from that damn Kustom Force Field anyway, so that’s not gonna hurt ya.

2) Anything that slows him down and/or encourages him to split up his forces is a good thing.

[Sons of Russ]

What's a good way to counter Speed Freaks using Deathwing/Loganwing? Here is the core of the Speed Freaks list (1500 points):

1 Battlewagon with some ork that gives anything within 6" a cover save
5-6 Trucks full of boyz that follow the battlewagon around
Gazghul

How do you counter a list like that with an elite assault army?

Here's what I do:


(mine is a 2k list however)

Phalanx / castle up your termie squads in a crescent shape, the centre squads with assault cannons, outside squads with cyclones

Deploy some light tanks mounting anti tank weapons on either side of the castle, far enough to get some side / un -obscured shots on the vehicles...

I use a "Rifleman" Pattern Dreadnought with 2x Twin Linked Autocannons as well. Position him on the other flank about a foot away from your castle.

IGNORE the battlewagon, shoot the snot out of the trukks.

Non Wolfguard units on my list is designed around crippling the enemy's mobility; once they are footsloggin, the terminator squads will easily mop them up....


heres the list and and on the bottom is why it works against Speed Freek orks:





Logan Grimnar 275


Close combat monster / Army wide enhancer
[SW version of Marneus Calgar]
WS 6 BS5 I5 3W, 5A Ld10
Eternal Warrior
Wolf Tail Talisman
Wolf Tooth Necklace
Belt of Russ
Saga of Majesty (Ld Reroll to all units within 6")
Living Legend (once per game, all friendlies get +1 Attack in assault within 18")
The High King (can grant either: Fearless, Relentless, Tank Hunters, or Preferred Enemy to himself and an attached squad)
Axe of Morkia (reforged Daemon weapon! allocated attacks as a mix of str5 power weapon or str 8 power fist)
Storm Bolter
WolfGuard as Troops


Rune Priest 110
Chooser of the Slain
Living Lightning
Murderous Hurricane

TROOPS: 1300 (65%, with 53% full scoring)

Wolf Guard Pack Alpha [x 5] 215
Terminator Armour,
4x Storm Bolters /4x Power Weapons
+1 Wolf Claw
+1 Chain Fist
+1 Assault Cannon

________
Razorback with Twin Linked Lascannon 75
Dedicated Transport:
________


Wolf Guard Pack Bravo [x 5] 210
Terminator Armour,
4x Storm Bolters / 4x Power Weapons
+1 Chainfist
+1 Assault Cannon


Wolf Guard Pack Charlie [x 5] 210
Terminator Armour,
5x Storm Bolters / 4x Power Weapons
+1 Chainfist
+1 Cyclone Rocket Launcher
________
Razorback with Twin Linked Lascannon 75
Dedicated Transport:
________



Wolf Guard Pack Delta [x 10] 440
Terminator Armour,
10x Storm Bolters / 6x Power Weapons
+1 Wolf Claw
+1 Storm Shield
+2 Chain Fist
+2 Cyclone Rocket Launchers
________
Razorback with Twin Linked Plasma Gun & Lascannon 75
Dedicated Transport:
________


FAST ATTACK: 190

Landspeeder 60
Multi Melta

Landspeeder 60
Multi Melta

Landspeeder 70
Multi Melta /Hvy Flamer


ELITE:125

"Carlos the Jackal" 125
Mortis Rifleman-Pattern Dreadnought
2x Twin Linked Autocannons

----------------------------------------

Anti-Tank/Transport:

3x Multi-Melta (Fast Vehicle)
2x Twin Linked Lascannon (Light Tanks)
1x Lascannon & Twin-Linked Plasma Gun (Light Tank)
4x Str 9 Krak Missiles (Tank Hunting, Relentless)
2x Str 8 Krak Missiles (Relentless)
2x Twin-Linked Autocannons (Dreadnought)
1x Living Lightning (D6x Autocannon, U/L Range)
2x Assault Cannons (Relentless)

5x Chainfists (Assault AT)
1x Logan Grimnar (5/6x Power Fist attacks with Tank Hunter against vehicles, or attacks with Preferred Enemy against MC's, Dreads, and Defilers)

Anti-Horde:

23x Storm Bolters
1x Heavy Flamer (Fast Vehicle)
6x Frag Missiles (Relentless)
1x Living Lightning/Murderous Hurricane
2x Twin Linked Autocannons (Dreadnought)
2x Assault Cannons (Relentless)

25x Terminators with 3/4x attacks, all power weapon or better (10x w/ Preferred Enemy)
1x Logan Grimnar (Storm Bolter, Preferred Enemy, 5/6x Frost Axe attacks)

[Chumbalaya]

Cyclones and ACs have a field day popping Trukks. Get on the side armor of that BW and you should rip them a new one.

Keep advancing away and blow up his speediest units first. Once Trukk mobs lose their ride, 12 Orks are easy to kill or fight off in HtH.