Primarch veneration/worship

[Sitnam]

Hello. so here is my question: Is it acceptable to make an SM chapter that venerates all of the loyalists Primarchs in some form or capacity?

The reason I ask is because I have been brainstorming a back story for a custom chapter my girlfriend and I are putting together, the Dancing Scythes. The are to be Blood Angels descendants (Using the current BA codex cuz I love its flavor), but they will not only venerate Sanguinus. They will also respect each and every primarch, but for different reasons that I will determine later.

[entendre_entendre]

well, if their BA descendants, then Sanguinius is the man to pray to. the reason SM's pray to their Primarchs is due to their genetic heritage. the blood of their Primarch flows in them as well, providing the link key for veneration. i don't see BA only descendants venerating all primarchs equally, but if the chapter was made up of the remnants of other chapters of various lineages, then i couldn't see why not. it would also make for some cool conversions representing the various legion descendants unified under 1 colour scheme... hmmm may have to use that myself actually....
they could play as BA due to fluff reasons (mostly 8th company survivors, etc) so don't let that hinder you. hell there's enough talk around about using the SW 'dex as CSM (which i think is copping out, but that's another story)

[Sitnam]

well, if their BA descendants, then Sanguinius is the man to pray to.

Of course, and he was to be the leader in the pantheon of primarchs. I don't think a chapter made of remnants is very fluffy, space marines tend to stick to their own. Chapters aren't like chaos warbands, they don't easily transfer from one warband to another.

the reason SM's pray to their Primarchs is due to their genetic heritage.

That is true, but each successive descendant chapter suffers from degradation in the geneseed used to start them. Take the Lamenters for example. They are also Blood Angels descendants, but the Black Rage and Red Thirst are non-ecistant. Descendant chapters don't have to be carbon copies of parent chapters.

. i don't see BA only descendants venerating all primarchs equally

I never said they would equally. I was thinking this chapter would be made up of philosophers, if you will. They see the Emporer as the amalgamation of each and every loyal primarch, as the tip of human evolution. He is the alpha and the omega. Each primarch is a facet of their father. Sanguinus, with his angelic wings and tragic story, is the Magnificent. He represents the shining light that the Emperor brings, the glory of mankind. Other primarchs have different roles. Ferrus Manus will be the Perfectionist, Corax the Resourceful, etc. I am still developing the story lol, so not every primarch's role is clear. But Sanguinus, as befitting the father of the Dancing Scythes, will be the chief of the primarchs.

Thanks for the feedback!

[sangrail777]

I could be wrong but by my understanding thats just what many space marine chapters do. They venerate all the primarchs in one way or another. (this is a statement meant to be wide and broad) Cuz each primarch contributed something or another.
Lamenters may have got rid of the rage and thirst but they still worshipped Sanguinius.
I think it would be fine to worship them all as you said though.

Question though, are you fluffing it this way just to somehow use "traits/rules" from all the primarchs to be under one banner (multiple codex) or is it just a simple kinda hey we pray to all but we all fight like this kinda thing (one codex)?

[Sitnam]

I could be wrong but by my understanding thats just what many space marine chapters do. They venerate all the primarchs in one way or another.

Hmm, interesting. I actually had no idea about that, thanks for informing! I remember hearing one chapter (I think a Dorn descendant) who worshipped Gulliman.

Question though, are you fluffing it this way just to somehow use "traits/rules" from all the primarchs to be under one banner (multiple codex) or is it just a simple kinda hey we pray to all but we all fight like this kinda thing (one codex)?

Just one codex. Their BA descendants, and I will only use BA rules for them. I just kinda wanted to give them a unique character. I was thinking that when a marine of my chapter achieves a great battlefield goal, he could receive a Trait of the Primarchs. Basically as a way to show that he accomplished one of the characteristics of the Primarchs in the eyes of his peers. So for instance, a very perfectionist marine would be give the Mark of Ferrus Manus on his knee (Basically the Iron hands chapter symbol.). A very cunning and resourceful marine will be given Mark of Corax, etc. Only the greatest however, receive the Mark of Sanguinus.

[sangrail777]

Have you read the Blood Angels books? I know in those they mention some of the other Primarchs in respectfull and reverent tones. Several other books that I can't think of the titles right now, some of the Ultramarine ones if i remember right talk of how all Primarchs should be revered. Yeah I believe it was a Dorn descendent chapter the praised Gulliman.

The badges sound intresting, good luck with that.

[Psychosplodge]

Surely the best method would to specify unknown origins, that would give you a viable reason for their worship of all the loyalist primachs. You can still use the ba codex for your actual tabletop army...

[Duke]

Surely the best method would to specify unknown origins, that would give you a viable reason for their worship of all the loyalist primachs. You can still use the ba codex for your actual tabletop army...

That is exactley what I was thinking. They should be an 'unknown origin' chapter, this wouls actually be pretty cool. You could go so far as to paint the different parts of the army to be like the legion it would have followed

E.G. Tactical Squads: Half your chapter colour and half Ultramarines colours
Assault Squads: Half your chapter and half BA/ Raven Guard
Bike squads: Half White Scars

Or you could simply do it the way you planned, lol... All in all I think it should be of unkown origins, but they like Sanguinius the most!

Duke

[Sitnam]

Have you read the Blood Angels books? I know in those they mention some of the other Primarchs in respectfull and reverent tones. Several other books that I can't think of the titles right now, some of the Ultramarine ones if i remember right talk of how all Primarchs should be revered. Yeah I believe it was a Dorn descendent chapter the praised Gulliman.

I believe in the novel Chapter War, Sarpedon had high regard for the Howling Griffons primarch, Gulliman. That may of been the Dorn descendant I was thinking about.

Or you could simply do it the way you planned, lol... All in all I think it should be of unkown origins, but they like Sanguinius the most!

Hmmm. Unknown origins could work, however the Death Company, Black Rage, and Red thirst all were gonna feature in the fluff. Plus I find unknown chapters disinterest me for some reason lol. I like to know where a successor chapter comes from. I was gonna maybe incorporate the idea of First Founding Chapters onto their armor, but through incorporating the chapter symbols on their knee pads. The would be called the Nine Traits. Basically it is a system to show that this certain marine has shown on the battlefield the trait of one of the Primarchs, kind of as a badge of honor.

Actually, I have kind of came up with the system of traits already if anyone wants to give input. For quite a few of the primarchs (Notably: Lion el'Johnson, Vulkan, and Leman Russ) I kinda had to stretch for their Trait. Anyway, here they are:

- Magnificence (Sanguinus- This is because he was by far the most glorious primarch. The guy had angelic wings for lords sake. He was brave and courageous and loyal. He even broke a bloodthirster over his knee! He will be the favorite of the Dancing Scythes as they are of his line.)

- Chivalry? (Lion El' Johnson- I am not quite sure what his trait will be. He was a knight, and he is quite the opposite of Leman Russ, who was feral and boasting in my view. Any help from Blood Angels fans?)

- Decisiveness (Jaghatai Khan- His predisposition to lightning attacks gives me the impression that he was decisive in action. He woould quickly strike to win as fast as possible.)

- Brotherhood (Leman Russ- Russ strikes me as being extremely close to his followers. We are talking about a guy who attempted to beat the emperor in eating and drinking contests. He does not seem tot hink himself head-and-above over this men. He seems to see them as his brothers.)

- Stubbornness (Rogal Dorn- Do I need say more? Their custom chapter trait in the current codex is called stubborn, not much more description needed.)

- Perfectionism (Ferrus Manus- He sought perfection in himself, his men, and all the Imperium. He would purge countless worlds to ensure weakness was snuffed out of the imperium.)

- Planning (Roboute Guilliman- Gulliman was excellent at bringing order and productivity to a planet and a military. He had tremendous strategic foresight both for battle and in advancing civlization. Although I could use a better word then planning.)

- Compassion (Vulkan- I'm not quite sure what to put for Vulkan. I do know Tu'shan gave a Marines Malevolent captasin hell on Armageddon for killing civilians. Does this represent Vulkan though?)

- Resourcefulness (Corax- Led a slave rebellion, outnumbered and outgunned. And won. He was a guerilla fighter, so he was fairly resourceful.)

So for instance, say a scout has his entire squad wiped out, and is alone behind enemy lines. After waging guerilla war on his enemies for days, his chapter saves him. His efforts earn him the Trait of the Resourceful (Corax), and he earns the Raven Guard symbol on his kneepad.

In another instance, a chaplain runs head first into a swarm of Tyranids, killing two dozen gaunts before reaching a Hive Tyrant and decapitating it. Such a feat would most likely give him the Mark of the Magnificent (Sanguinus, the foremost of the primarchs), and he earns the venerated blood angels symbol.

[Psychosplodge]

Not quite what I meant, your actual chapter should look unified, if you want to do what you just said why not play codex marines and have a "battlegroup" or "crusade" of codex chapters and just paint squads of whatever chapter you want, but follow codex space marines, or again have some kind of crusade or group of blood angel successor chapters and follow codex BA?

While a chapter might revere other legions primachs, they are all individual entites and would wear their own heraldry and symbolism. While that might be derived from the parent legion, if you're plastering blood drops and wings everywhere they're hardly going to have unknown origins.