BoLS Lounge : Wargames, Warhammer & Miniatures Forum
Page 29 of 29 FirstFirst ... 19272829
Results 281 to 285 of 285
  1. #281
    Chapter-Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2,797

    Default

    I don't think people can really complain if the Daemon Prince gets nerfed.
    Unless you were running a themed list or really didn't want to use them there was virtually no reason not to run a pair of them in pretty much any army list. They were that much better than the Chaos Lord and Sorcerer Lord it was really rather sad. "Hey, for 20 points more than a basic Chaos Lord, I am AP2 (as opposed to AP-), a monstrous creature, an eternal warrior, WS7, S6, T5, W4, A4, etc.
    The rumours don't really say their actual statline and so on will get hit, from what I could tell it is more that they will be as expensive as they are in the Daemons codex (i.e. about 30-50 points more when you upgrade them similarly), but like the Daemons codex, will have some crazier wargear options than they do in the current CSM codex.

    I have a pair of them, and I always use them. Frankly, it's getting tiring. I have an awesome Chaos Lord/Sorcerer Lord that looks like Ahriman and a Sorcerer Lord in Terminator armour, neither of which I ever use because running them makes no sense in a codex that already struggles against most others. Not that I'm actually really concerned about winning - the Daemon Princes draw amazing amounts of firepower and it is pretty funny to watch them laugh it off. Hell, the only non-Daemon Prince HQ that was worth his points comparatively - Kharn - has been hit pretty badly by the recent FAQs. No murdering entire squads before they get to attack sucks ***, especially when you strike at the same time as a power fist that will still kill you outright.

    This is what I love about the new codex rumours. The special characters all sound delicious - especially with points reductions - and as a Tzeentch player I am very excited about Ahriman now. If he is indeed Mastery Level 4, and can swing a better version of Smite in addition to his 4 psychic powers a turn, all at a reduced cost, I think I will be running him all the time. It's at that point I can say to Spess Mehrines - 'Lol, my psyker's better than yours'. The best part though is the difference between the Chaos Lords/Sorcerer Lords and Daemon Princes - the DPs are obviously the most powerful combat wise, but the other two buff/change your army by affecting your force organisation, as well as providing other buffs (i.e. an undivided lord provides leadership bonuses and reserves manipulation).

    Still.....the Thousand Sons sounds insane now. If the rumours from that Mysterious Guest are true, Thousand Sons won't be ridiculously expensive anymore. 230 points to get a 9 man squad and not have to pay for the Sorcerer's psychic power will be awesome, as oppossed to the 254 points minimum from the old codex including Doombolt. That and now Thousand Sons get Soul Blaze and are only Slow and Purposeful if the Sorcerer dies. With the new potency of psychic powers and, being Chaos Space Marines, the probable addition of some very nasty new powers, no longer will we be the black sheep of the cult units (points-effectiveness wise).

    But man.....being able to mark vehicles....hell yes! And dedicated transports get them for free matching the squad they carry? Daemonic possession turning your vehicle into an actual daemon (that's the impression I'm getting) and thus receiving a 5+ invulnerable save? Consuming your own models to repair/regrow weapons and so on said vehicles? A flying dragon that mauls other flyers? Close combat Obliterators? Daemonic raptors? Cheaper units? Another Land Raider variant? Better Defilers? Possessed actually getting to buy daemonic gifts? Eye of the Gods table for ALL characters? Abaddon back to being AP2? Kharn back to murdering squads before they attack? Cultists? Plague Zombies? A new Daemon Engine? Being able to MARK Dreadnoughts!?

    It just sounds too good to be true. But by the looks of it IS true and it's coming our way in September. I can't wait. This codex sounds amazing - being a Phil Kelly codex, is that really any surprise? That last one makes me smile - I have a Thousand Sons Sorcerer Dreadnought converted from two Furioso Librarian kits (I have both force weapons, one on each arm - it is an awesome, awesome model). Whilst it's not confirmed, the guy did say that Dreadnoughts can have marks, and given what he said about the Khorne one (i.e. it gets blood talon-equivalents and becomes a meat-grinder), it isn't too much of a stretch to think we might get psychic Dreadnoughts too

    Excited rant, over and out. Oh, did I forget to mention Dark Apostles and Warsmiths?

  2. #282
    Librarian
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    San Diego, California
    Posts
    749

    Default

    I think 2+ saves are overrated. Bring Plasma. It works wonders. In melee, yes it can be tougher, especially when you have to deal with crap that strikes before you, but that's where you either unload as many attacks as possible, or you play strategically and maneuver your models accordingly.

    Anyway, super excited to be throwing down an effective Slaanesh list again. The only thing I could beat back in the day with Slaanesh were footslogging orks because of all the Sonic Blaster shots I could pump out, and even then it was a challenge.

    I'm eager to see what Lucius has to bring to the table, and I fully intend to ally with Chaos Daemons of Slaanesh to round out the force, perhaps with a Keeper of Secrets to slaughter characters.

  3. #283

    Default

    I'll be going with Tzeentch in this new book. (obviously)
    Kinda thinking of a Tzeentchian Mechanicum theme, Archeoscience!

    Plus, Ahriman sounds like the finest Shropshire Blue.
    Red like roses, fills my dreams and brings me to the place where you rest...

  4. #284

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Learn2Eel View Post
    I don't think people can really complain if the Daemon Prince gets nerfed.
    Unless you were running a themed list or really didn't want to use them there was virtually no reason not to run a pair of them in pretty much any army list. They were that much better than the Chaos Lord and Sorcerer Lord it was really rather sad. "Hey, for 20 points more than a basic Chaos Lord, I am AP2 (as opposed to AP-), a monstrous creature, an eternal warrior, WS7, S6, T5, W4, A4, etc.
    What you forget is that you DPs are allmost never in cover, can be shot at directly, can be targeted directly in cc and have very limited access to shooting and only through psychic powers.

    If you get him without mark of Nurgle, those wounds are actually not hard to take off him.

    If the list is not saturated with AV, the DPs stand out as prime targets and get gunned down immidiately.

    Lord and sorc is overpriced, sure.

    But they do very different things.

    Like 8 TS, aspiring sorc with wind of chaos, sorc with wind of chaos, rhino.
    To will, to know, to dare, to win.

  5. #285
    Chapter-Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2,797

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Filthspew View Post
    What you forget is that you DPs are allmost never in cover, can be shot at directly, can be targeted directly in cc and have very limited access to shooting and only through psychic powers.

    If you get him without mark of Nurgle, those wounds are actually not hard to take off him.

    If the list is not saturated with AV, the DPs stand out as prime targets and get gunned down immidiately.

    Lord and sorc is overpriced, sure.

    But they do very different things.

    Like 8 TS, aspiring sorc with wind of chaos, sorc with wind of chaos, rhino.
    Finding cover for them is actually pretty easy. In the old rules, if you were a Tzeentch prince it didn't matter if you had a cover save or not. And actually, Chaos Lords and Sorcerers are easily targeted in the new rules, and were previously too. Hidden power fist only had to be close to you to kill your nasty, expensive character. Daemon Princes with wings have greater mobility than Chaos Lords as well. Also, you are forgetting that to get a retinue for a Chaos Lord would always cost a lot more points than simply taking a Daemon Prince, and given most of our lords are suited to combat, you really have to pay to make them durable and transport it.

    The only benefit they have ever really had was joining units, but even that can be mitigated. Even then, Daemon Princes have never been the unit you rush up madly by itself. They are best used as supporting and counter-charge units. They even do the psyker part better than a sorcerer lord for a minimal points difference. Your point about limited shooting is funny, considering Lords typically only really have bolt guns or combi-weapons - Princes can shoot two powers a turn, something the other two cant do. Also, what viable Chaos list - hell, what decent army list in the game - isn't saturated by multiple threats? Target saturation is a necessity to a competitive army list, no Chaos player runs DPs without support from other equally threatening targets. And even then, a 150 point Nurgle prince with wings is a massive distraction that can cause a lot of damage and take the heat off your more valuable targets - vindicators, defilers, troops, obliterators, etc. Lords simply can't do this for you. Lords also are nowhere near as threatening to a wide range of targets that a DP is.

    Sorry dude, it's not about the other two being overpriced. Princes are too cheap for what they do. They have their drawbacks, sure, but they are better in nearly every way for a tiny points difference. As is, Princes are amongst the most cost-effective HQs in the game.

    Again, I've ran the other two and been quite happy with them. The above only really matters if you want to participate in a highly competitive scene - Slaaneshi Lords of both kinds are fantastic, and Tzeentch Lords can be unreasonably hard to kill. Also, with the new toughness value rules, a Nurgle biker lord can be a monster to kill.
    It just pains me that the current codex seems to only encourage the use of as many Lash Princes, Plague Marines, Obliterators and Vindicators as possible.

    Agh....I hate the current codex so much! I miss 3.5 Please don't get the idea that I'm arguing with you, I'm just gripped by excitement at the prospect of a new, flavorful codex
    Last edited by Learn2Eel; 07-30-2012 at 02:02 AM.

Page 29 of 29 FirstFirst ... 19272829

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •