Special Power "axes"

[Chris*ta]

Hold on...
People seem to misreading the rulebook bit on Unique weapons.

The BRB says "Many models have unusual power weapons that have one or more unique special rules. If a power weapon has its own unique close combat rules, treat it as an AP 3 Melee weapon with the additional rules and characteristics presented in the entry."

So what about the Axe Mortalis is unique (other than the funky name)?

Not a thing... master crafted is not a unique special rule, merely a special rule. It is included in the special rules bit of the BRB.

But even without that...take the sad tale of Kharn into account.
Before the FAQ Kharn had a valid argument as his Axe has many (unique to Gorechild) special rules and only counted as a powerweapon.
Guess what? FAQ hit and Gorechild = power axe

This argument is silly... There is no way Dante's no unique rules Axe is not an Axe.

But Dante costs a million points and he's super awesome and he flies around on a Land Raider playing super awesome power guitar and how could GW possibly nerf him?!

Yeah, I agree with you, and yeah, I think it's obvious that an axe should follow the rules for an axe, and I even posted a compromise that should make both sides happy because they both get what they want, and no, this won't stop the argument from carrying on.

Sorry, trying to get in before this argument goes up another bunch of pages.

[EnglishInquisition]

Also, remember my compromise?

That actually let's everyone have what they want?

You still haven't said what's wrong with that?

Other than that you want your toy soldiers to work how you want and everyone else's to work the same way.

Compromise? Compromise!?
Did he actually say COMPROMISE!!

This is the internet damnit- there will be no compromise! This is my opinion and I will bloody mindedly stick with it and ignore your logic and reason!.
Pah, I say, PAH!

(that'll get another 5 pages- now I'm going over to the auto hitting flyers thread, that one seems to be dragging its heels a bit)

[Chris*ta]

Compromise? Compromise!?
Did he actually say COMPROMISE!!

This is the internet damnit- there will be no compromise! This is my opinion and I will bloody mindedly stick with it and ignore your logic and reason!.
Pah, I say, PAH!

(that'll get another 5 pages- now I'm going over to the auto hitting flyers thread, that one seems to be dragging its heels a bit)

Do you want to ask if Sanguinor can sword a Blitza Bomma, cos he does have wings?

Damn, can't find on Youtube the bit from Wild Zero where the guy cuts a UFO in two with a sword he keeps in his guitar

[dreadnaughtguy]

Chris you're wrong, sorry. I will quote direct rules here as I have the rule book.

First off master-crafted is in the section of the book specifically labeled Special Rules along with many others. There is no argument, Master Crafted is a special rule.

Now for the first rule.

Power Weapons

A power weapon is sheathed in the lethal haze of a disruptive energy field that eats through armor, flesh and bone with ease.

Types of Power Weapons

Power weapons come in all shapes and sizes, but for the purposes of our game, we have four simple categories of power weapons: power axes, power mauls, power swords, and power lances.

If a model's wargear says it has a power weapon which has no further special rules, look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has: if it's a sword or dagger, it's a power sword; if it's an axe of halberd, it's a power axe; if it's a blunt weapons like a mace or staff, it's a power maul; if it's a spear or lance, it's a power lance.

(It then goes on to show the table with the specific attributes which in short are)

Sword - AP3 at initiative
Axe - AP2, +1 str, unwieldy (initiative 1)
Maul - AP4 +2 str, concussive
Lance - +1 str/AP3 on charge, and normal str/AP4 otherwise.

However pay attention to the conditional sentence. The first sentence. I'll repeat it just for emphasis.

If a model's wargear says it has a power weapon which has no further special rules, look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has:

Master Crafted IS a further special rule. This means you do not look at the model the conditional sentence is not met. Which means it counts as a 'standard' power weapon which is simply ap3 at initiative.


Now we'll talk about what has everyone's panties in a twist. The


Unusual Power Weapons

Many models have unusual power weapons that have one or more unique rules. If a power weapon has it's own unique close combat rules, treat it as an AP3 Melee weapon with the additional rules and characteristics presented in its entry.


Note the italicized sections are direct quotations from the book. No where at all does the rules state if it has no "unique" rules do you look at the model. Because if it has no unique rules then you simply follow the rules for power weapons. Which specifically state, if it has additional special rules. You do NOT look at the weapon. It defaults to AP3.

This really doesn't need to be a debate at all. The rules are perfectly clear. Trying to put a tag on rules as special or unique is completely irrelevant because no matter what you choose to classify them as. Special or Unique the rules say the same exact thing. It's an AP3 melee weapon.

People also point out the Codex mentions the Axe specifically to reference a unique weapon. People are arguing pointlessly about rather a unique 'weapon' means it has unique 'rules' and so it doesn't follow the unusual power weapons rule. Which honestly isn't relevant at all because the power weapons rule handles the situation in the first place. It's seriously people getting hung up on words that have no bearing on the rules. It's the same with Glaive Encarmine, Relic blade ect ect. Unless they FAQ the weapon, and it has any other rules other then being 'power weapon' it's AP3. End of story.

Now please, let this stupid pointless subject die. Because it's pretty cut and dry what the rules say.

Ah I get what you are saying! You are saying GW created three types of power weapons.

basic wysiwyg power _______ .
special power weapons like the axe mortalis.
Unique special power weapons like Dryachnin.

here is the only issue I see with this...

correct me if I am getting any of this wrong since I do not have the rule book.

the section on power weapons makes people wonder if "mr vampire" and his "axe of uber vampireness" is quantified as a UNIQUE POWER WEAPON since it has the specific unique name and a usr.

the section on unique power weapons says it does not count as a unique power weapon because it does not have unique special rules for combat.

So it is eithor meant to be a power axe, which is a nerf to him. Or it is meant to be a unique weapon and they missed it in the recent run of faq's. Or as you contend they actually created three "classes of weapons"

Here is my question if "master crafted" is a usr and I apply a usr to a weapon that is covered in the rule book does that give me the benifit of bypassing the negative parts of the power weapon rule. For example If you say yes, then I can then attach master crafted to a power axe making it "unique" and becoming ap3 and attacking at Inishative instead of a +1s I=1 weapon. this is a huge deal for BT.

Now just incase they decide to nerf BA and rull it the way that those that call it an axe have said to clear this up, that would mean that he falls into the same area as say marnius who has a boosted inishative that is nerfed by his war gear. Ask all the nid players about the nerf faq's, im sure they will feel sorry for your pain at getting a super character nerfed.

[Tynskel]

the funny thing is that Dante doesn't have the axe of Uber Vampireness. That's Astorath.

Dante either has a Master Crafted Power Axe: re-roll one miss to hit Str+1 AP2, Unwieldly
Or he has a Master Crafted Power Axe: re-roll one miss to hit Str as User AP3.

Either case, it doesn't really matter. Dante is a Bad MoFo with either weapon.

[dreadnaughtguy]

It was a joke.... about the blood xyz of everything in the codex.

....

and what ever he has determins what the entire command squad in bt is equiped with.

[Chris*ta]

the funny thing is that Dante doesn't have the axe of Uber Vampireness. That's Astorath.

Dante either has a Master Crafted Power Axe: re-roll one miss to hit Str+1 AP2, Unwieldly
Or he has a Master Crafted Power SWORD: re-roll one miss to hit Str as User AP3.

Either case, it doesn't really matter. Dante is a Bad MoFo with either weapon.

Fixed!

[Chris*ta]

That's sad, this thread seems to have gone dead

Maybe I should try posting something about how an axe should follow the rules for an axe and see if it starts up again ...

[Chris*ta]

Ah I get what you are saying! You are saying GW created three types of power weapons.

basic wysiwyg power _______ .
special power weapons like the axe mortalis.
Unique special power weapons like Dryachnin.

Four types. you left out special power weapons that are FAQ'd to be a specific power weapon type like Lemartes' crozius.

[Tynskel]

Fixed!

no, because of the special rule, one might interpret the rule as part of the 'no further special rules' segment, of which is would be a Master Crafted Power Axe: str as user, AP3.