GK vs Longfang spam

[Foxhound2delta]

Ok so this weekend I played in a local 1750pt tourney and it was the first time I played GK. This was my list:

HQ
Kaldor
Troops
10 man paladin sqd with 2 hammers, 4 psycannons, a sword, halbreds and pysbolt ammo
5 man strike sqd with 1 hammer and halbreds, and psycannon and razorback transport with psybolt ammo
5 man interceptor sqd falchions and psycannon
Elite
Vindicare
Heavy
2 Dreadnoughts with twinlinked auto cannons with psybolt ammo

Now some of my weapons were master crafted but I dont remember which. In anycase my biggest problem was the first and last game as I faced to different opponents with nearly the same build. Decked out longfangs! Right from the get go my dreadnought were toast and my vindicare didn't fare that well either. My paladins did ok but I still lost these games horribly. My question is what's the GK answer to longfang spam? I have a 2000 point tourney next month at the same store and I want to improve my game, even if its a little.

[DarkLink]

I'm not a fan of the Vindicare, it really suffers in matchups like this. The Dreadnoughts you just need to keep well hidden and carefully deployed. You might lose them eventually, but you should be able to make up for it in the long run.

Interceptors happen to be great for this sort of thing. I always take 10, 5 are too easy to kill, but shunt them off to a flank in assault range and they can eat up those long fang squads and take the pressure off your units. It should give you a couple turns to get the Paladins into the fight.

I will say drop the Halberds and Falchions on the Strike/Interceptor squads. Too many points for too little benefit.

[bforber]

2 things I would suggest to change up your list a little bit.

1) As DarkLink said, drop the Vindicare and bump your interceptors to 10. This provides you with more bodies you so desperately need in a Draigowing list. Not only that, but it gives you more options with grand strategy (you can make 2 more scoring units if you combat squad them.)

2) Drop the Vindicare, halberds/falchions and get a librarian. With the ease of getting 4+ cover, shrouding is roughly... the best thing ever. Not only that, but you add psychic defense and hulk smashing capability with might of titan. All good things for ~175 points.

As far as not getting your dreads not blown up... it's just a matter of careful deployment. You can reserve your dreads and manipulate when they come in via psychic communion with draigo. Place them behind your librarian unit, (terminators cover 50% of a dread, so they'd get a 3+ cover via shrouding.) Outflank with your interceptors via GS and tie up long fangs immediately, (again manipulated via psychic communion.) etc.

Long range shooting is the GKs biggest weakness, but with careful consideration for what you want to do with each unit, it can be handled.

[Foxhound2delta]

[QUOTE=bforber;

As far as not getting your dreads not blown up... it's just a matter of careful deployment. You can reserve your dreads and manipulate when they come in via psychic communion with draigo. Place them behind your librarian unit, (terminators cover 50% of a dread, so they'd get a 3+ cover via shrouding.) Outflank with your interceptors via GS and tie up long fangs immediately, (again manipulated via psychic communion.) etc.
.[/QUOTE]

For game 3 I did exactly what your advice was by deploying the dreadnoughts behind the paladins. I figured that the paladins would cover them 50%. Yet, when my opponent went to shoot his 4 lascannons and 8 or missiles at them he said I didn't get a cover save because the paladins weren't covering 50% of them. He was counting the armor/body portion not the legs. Being that the store owner was standing right there watching the game saying nothing in contrary to that I keep my mouth closed and let it play. I went back and measured both models and the dreadnoughts stand at about 2 inches wheres as terminators stand over at almost an in and a half. Now that I know that I will so argue this point next time. Thanks for the advice

[karlthepagan]

The vindicare will give your opponants target priority problems and give you a shot at taking out Eldrad and other tricky opponants. Play it in a game or ten, but realize it'll probably end up going to ground or giving up a killpoint.

Don't forget you can fire special issue ammo from the pistol.

One answer to longfang spam are stormraven rockets fired all in one round? I've got a few ideas but most of them are situational.

[DarkLink]

Personally, I've never heard nor seen a game where the Vindicare did anything of any use. Any competent opponent will kill it before it ever gets a chance to make its points back or do anything useful. And a 3+ cover save isn't actually very impressive on a two wound model. Vindicares are glass cannons to the point of effective uselessness in my opinion and experience.

[thelion]

i have to agree with dark link here (not that i have ever played aganst a vindacare) but from the codex i have in front of me a vindacare seems to be to points costly to be worth it in a game of that size.

[MorbidAri]

I will add a +1 to benching the Vindicator. I play Deathwing as my sole imperium army (tons of xenos love here!). I play with a group and among them we have a BA, 2 SW and a Vanilla player. All of them at one point have used a Vindicator against me playing one of my many armies. Never once has it ever been useful against me ever. Not even once!

3 of them stopped using them all together. The 4th only uses it due to a lack of models. It isn't a liability however, just simply not worth taking.

Long Fangs are a big pain for a lot of armies (my DE hate them!). So don't think your alone. LOS and cover is your only option save from deployment and deepstrike.

Best of luck to you!

[DarkLink]

Vindicare Assassin, not Vindicator. But, yes, if an AV13 vehicle with a scary gun can't survive long enough to be useful, then a 2 wound t4 model with an even scarier gun certainly won't.

[TGG-Schoolboy]

Vindicare Assassin, not Vindicator. But, yes, if an AV13 vehicle with a scary gun can't survive long enough to be useful, then a 2 wound t4 model with an even scarier gun certainly won't.

Except that in most cases that 2 wound t4 model has a 2+ cover, at least if you're running any sort of competitive Draigo type wing as most should have a techmarine.

There have been very few games where I haven't had my vindicare earn his points plus some. Sure you cant just plop him out there and hope he survives on the board, but if you play him smart hes pretty decent. I prefer taking a psifle dread over him though.