Most Viable Shooty Faction

[silentdante]

hello all, thanks for taking the time to read my post.

My question to all the warmachine/hordes players would be: Which faction from either warmachine or hordes do you think is the most viable faction for a mostly ranged shooty theme? Take into account all forms of ranged combat including but not limited to sprays, indirect/bombard, magic, ect. used in a faction. I am not looking for lists per say, but more generality and knowledge from people to help me figure out which faction to maybe start to pick up.

thanks!
-cory

[tonyzahn]

The common answer will probably be either Cygnar or Retribution.

In Cygnar, even the elite melee troops can shoot (albeit at short range). Lots of their casters have spells and abilities that support the ranged game, and most of their jacks have ranged attacks.
Add in some of the auto-hitting electrical shenanigans and they've probably got the most shots in the game.

Although newer, the Retribution has some really great ranged units, and almost every single one of their warjacks has ranged attacks. If you're counting magic attacks as well that adds the whole "mittens" battle mage theme as well.

One thing to keep in mind: the game is set up such that it's hard to win without at least some melee support. You can do an all-ranged army, but there are certain spells/feats/abilities that will shut it down and you have to have a plan B. Combined arms is the key concept. With Retribution the Invictors are ranged unit that are no slouches in melee, and in Cygnar the Stormblades are melee troops that can shoot (as mentioned above), so you can get the best of both sometimes. Both factions also have melee troops than ranged units can hide behind and shoot through, making a good meat wall for your gun lines.

[under]

I'd echo tonyzahn and say Retribution of Scyrah and Cygnar are the top two shootiny factions and add Protectorate of Menoth as a distant third.

That said, Lylyth2 is the number one ranged list caster in my opinion and she's in Legion of Everblight, that faction as a whole is not nearly as shooty as Retribution or Cygnar though. It's just that one caster in both forms that does it better then anyone else in a caster by caster line up.

[silentdante]

so is it commonly known that cygnar has the most ranged and the most effective ranged? i have been reading up on some things about cygnar and it seems like even in a ranged heavy list some of the ranged models never get taken. is that just prefrence or what? i guess my real question is, in a 35 point game do cygnar come out on top as the most effective ranged? or khador with all the bombards and winterguard, or retribution (which i admit to not knowing much about).

i do agree an only ranged army needs diversity, so if ther are good duel squads those would count for more. i am also going to say anything ranged 8" and more for effectiveness is what the cutoff is.

thanks again i really apreciate your guys thoughts

[Korwen]

If you want to play a ranged-heavy army than all of the factions mentioned (cygnar, retribution of scryah, Protectorate of Menoth and legion) will be able to field ranged-heavy armies that are viable...

However I'm going to recommend you change your mindset towards approaching the game.

Pick a faction that looks good out of the above list, buy the battlebox and play/paint it. After you have a couple games under your belt with those, then I'd recommend adding models based on your preference.

The reason I ask this is because trying to build an army without a lot of table time normally doesn't work out well. In addition, if you're asking for a competitive list that means you'll want to play scenarios, and ranged-heavy lists can suffer in scenarios.

I'd suggest picking a faction, getting to know the game and then deciding what you want to do. I've seen a lot of 40k players move over to Warmachine and not enjoy themselves because they were trying to play just like their Tau, stand and shoot, and then they'll just keep losing because this game loves aggression, and a lot of ranged-heavy lists have common hard counters.

[Drakkan Vael]

It is not that simple. A lot of factions can be tuned to great shooting powers.
Have a look at the protectorate for example:
Exemplar Errants, Deliverers as troops,
Knight Exemplar Errant Seneschal, Nicia, Tear of Vengeance (solos),
Vanquisher, Reckoner (heavies),
Repenter, Redeemer (light)

This does not look like much in the first place, but in combination with vassal(s) and a choir, this can become quite fearsome (they have a shorter range but cannot be hit by shooting attacks (choir), and gain extra shots (vassals).

It is only lacking a decent randed caster but it works astonishingly well.

You see, there are other uncommon shooting armies out there.

[under]

so is it commonly known that cygnar has the most ranged and the most effective ranged? i have been reading up on some things about cygnar and it seems like even in a ranged heavy list some of the ranged models never get taken. is that just prefrence or what? i guess my real question is, in a 35 point game do cygnar come out on top as the most effective ranged? or khador with all the bombards and winterguard, or retribution (which i admit to not knowing much about).

i do agree an only ranged army needs diversity, so if ther are good duel squads those would count for more. i am also going to say anything ranged 8" and more for effectiveness is what the cutoff is.

thanks again i really apreciate your guys thoughts

Well, no two units are created indentically, units A might be great with unit B, but not so good with unit C. In general you can not build an army considering units in isolation. A good example would be max Mage Hunter Strike Force +UA and 2x Stormfall Archers, both are great for different reasons but taking both at 35 points leaves no room for a real front line melee unit for protecting said ranged units and 'jacks in the list. Dawngaurd Invictors or Housegaurd Halbriders would be a good swap for either the Strifeforce or Archers.

I suppose I should clarify why I consider Cygnar and Retribution to be ranged factions but not Protectorate even though the later does have some good ranged options. Both Cygnar and Retribution in general will have key units and solo's that are primarily ranged based, whereas Protectorate's keys tend to be melee based much more often. It's so significant that I would say it's a rare exception when a Cygnar or Retribution list does not include a strong ranged component and spend more then hlaf the list points on models that are either ranged or ranged/melee combined. The exact opposite is true of Trollbloods and Skorne to name two. Protectorate of Menoth lists, as I play against them and read battle reports has more points put into melee power than Cygnar and Retribution in most lists. On top of all this most Warcasters in Cygnar have support spells that make thier ranged game better still.

Regaurding what that see less playtime - Cygnar has the largest occrance for this. When you play more often you'll see that some faction have "go to units" Trollbloods: Fen Blades, Cryx: Bile Thralls, Khador: Kazzy Assassins, Retribution: Mage Hunter Strike Force, there are others. These units end up bing unsed in most lists for said faction. For some greater detail Trollblood players tend to discuss Fen Blades, Kreil Warriors, and Champions and which is better every so ofteh on the PP forums. Fen Blades usually have the largest support, but Kreil Warriors and Champions do have their place and are better in that place that Fen Blades, but even when Fen Blades aren't the best choice they tend to be a very close second. For that reason they are probably the best first unit purchase for a new Trollblood player. Cygnar does not really have a "go to unit" and they rely on Mercenaries more than any other faction specifically Boomhowlers and Nys Hunters for units and a host of solos.

TL;DR - If you want "shooty" and like either Cygnar/Merc or Retribution go for it, if you don't like either faction then you'll have to settle for factions that aren't specifically known for being "shooty" but do have a ranged game.

[thebarbalag]

I totally agree with Korwen. Experience with other games and how a shooting army works may not apply. Focusing on any one attribute of an army will both leave you vulnerable, and vastly limit your experience. One of the great strengths of this game is its flexibility within a given faction. You would be doing yourself a disservice to ignore it.

Most factions have viable ranged options, though they may function differently, for example, a Menoth Cleanser and Zealot army under Feora (either one) is going to function completely differently than a Cygnar gunline, or Trolls with heavy ranged beasts and Scattergunners under Gunbjorn (which would be different still under Skuld).

Pick an army you think looks cool, play with the Battlebox until you get the mechanics down, then make decisions about what type of army in that faction you want to play.

[Corax.69]

I think Retribution has one of the strongest shooting games. Almost everything in their army, including all their heavy jacks, can pump out ranged attacks. Ossyan and Raven both are excellent ranged assassination casters. The Mage Hunter Strike Force is also a beast of a ranged unit. With the UA, it can even ignore line of sight. If you want ranged shooting, you can't go wrong with Ret.

[Marshal_Wilhelm]

RoS has shooting woven into all of its Heavy Myrmidons, and even has effects woven into them so they are just raw guns.

Invictors are a solid shooting unit that can mini-feat from 10 to 14" of range.

People have already mentioned Mage Hunters

Ossyan's feat adds an extra dice to shooting within his command range, and reduces enemy shooting by a dice too.

Destor Thanes are pretty reasonable shooting cavalry.

I guess it comes down to you liking their look and their fluff