The Lost Primarchs; A Speculation.

[mjasghar]

Lol
If your gonna quote my post at least read it
I said librarians are used to screen candidates - they look for taint or weakness of character etc
I did NOT say they activate the gene seed
Since corax invisibility is psychic - the image shows on scanners it's just ignored , and in fear to tread Horus sneaks past sanguinary guard it's not a stretch to imagine his sons share that
Really a 8-9 foot bloke in powered armour that weighs enough to crack concrete by walking on it is somehow silent even to a lictor? (as shown in helion rain) what about the noise of the power generator?!

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Really a 8-9 foot bloke in powered armour that weighs enough to crack concrete by walking on it is somehow silent even to a lictor? (as shown in helion rain) what about the noise of the power generator?!

That might just come under the heading of "40k does not make sense". :P

Although, keep in mind that the Ravenguard have access to silencer equipment that can make a shotgun completely, 100% silent. That tech might be at play whenever we see Power Armour be stupidly quiet.

[Foxhound2delta]

Lol
If your gonna quote my post at least read it
I said librarians are used to screen candidates - they look for taint or weakness of character etc
I did NOT say they activate the gene seed
Since corax invisibility is psychic - the image shows on scanners it's just ignored , and in fear to tread Horus sneaks past sanguinary guard it's not a stretch to imagine his sons share that
Really a 8-9 foot bloke in powered armour that weighs enough to crack concrete by walking on it is somehow silent even to a lictor? (as shown in helion rain) what about the noise of the power generator?!

Okay but what about after the Council of Nikaea? How did the Legions "psychically" screen new members? (Maybe that explains the creation/role of Chaplains in other Legions) Furthermore if the some of the primarch's abilities were psychically driven wouldn't they too have been censored? I think the abilities that marines demonstrate like you mentioned earlier have more to do with passing of genes than the geneseed having a psychic attribute to it. For instance Salmanders having glowing eyes would be a trait they inherited through the geneseed as the glowing eyes was a much more dominant trait much like I inherited brown eyes from my mother and not the blue eyes of my father. I don't see the geneseed having a psychic element to it at all and instead see the gifts that the marines exhibit as plain old genetics playing out. If a primarch was a blank then that could be a genetic trait that his marines could inherit.

[mjasghar]

The whole screening thing is more recent - part of the fluff for the ease with which the legions fell us they just took anyone based purely on genetics and attitude. This was supposedly how those already arselicking chaos got in eg Typhus. Certainly the HH novels show a lot of these guys are closer to the nutters you see in certain modern day armies ie youtubing their atrocities rather than the knights/noble warriors they tend to be shown as now
As for Nikea - that seemed more to be restricting sorcery not the more innate powers cf fear to tread where sanguinius has visions with no thought about censure. Curze had a fear aura and the power to generate lightning
Btw I hate how some primarchs are only getting limited edition novellas eg the khan and vulkan

[DarkDesigner]

In regards to opposites and similarities what if one of the missing legions wasn't a psychic legion as some may think but the exact opposite and were a legion of blanks? That could be very dangerous.

I thought this would be awesome too, it would really fit in with the whole 'opposites' theme when pairing up primarchs ([URL="http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?23787-Info-on-One-of-the-Two-lost-Primarches-in-the-First-Heretic/page5"]something I too have tried[/URL]).

To me, it seems like the Emperor had two Primarchs for each job, and they could then compete to be the best at it, to push them all to achieve their best. For example, Angron and Russ could both have been the executioner legion but Russ showed that his legion had the most self-control when it came to objectives; Guilliman and Horus were in the running for Warmaster but in the end Horus had the charisma while Guilliman was more of a statesman; Dorn and Perturabo are the seige experts. It seems odd that Magnus alone was the psychic meant for the throne.

All that said, I'm not sure what good a pariah would have done on the golden throne, so maybe it would have needed to be another psychic... I just love the null idea.

Btw I hate how some primarchs are only getting limited edition novellas eg the khan and vulkan

I'm with you, I'd love to read Aurelian but I don't have an eBook and you can't get the papercopies for love nor money. I'd also love for them to release the audiobooks as paperbacks, while I appreciate some people need an audioversion as they can't read so easily, by the same token some people need a version they can read. I don't have a hearing problem myself, I'd just like the choice.


One other thought I had regarding the nature of the lost Primarchs.

I can't believe the emperor only tried to engineer sons. If they're meant to represent the peak of humanity, and all facets of warfare, there must have been room for one Primarchess. Surely?

[Ultisacrifice74]

In my personal thought i think the one of the primarchs might have gone rouge like the soul drinkers did when they saw thr flaw of the imperium. maybe the one who went rouge could have been gifted like the blood angels primarch and had a vision that saw how corrupt the imperium could have been. and probably went on some mass genocide killing those who he saw as those who were the corrupt. Which i think the other lost primarch went to go stop him along with Russ and brought the first conflict of brother vs brother. Which brought the death or banishment of the psych one and drove the primarch of the 2nd crazy of guilt and left on his ownto continue the hunt for his lost brother along with maybe some of his legion and the majority might have joined the 13th legion. thats what i think might have happened you never know.

Tell me what yall think?

[wittdooley]

In my personal thought i think the one of the primarchs might have gone rouge like the soul drinkers did when they saw thr flaw of the imperium. maybe the one who went rouge could have been gifted like the blood angels primarch and had a vision that saw how corrupt the imperium could have been. and probably went on some mass genocide killing those who he saw as those who were the corrupt. Which i think the other lost primarch went to go stop him along with Russ and brought the first conflict of brother vs brother. Which brought the death or banishment of the psych one and drove the primarch of the 2nd crazy of guilt and left on his ownto continue the hunt for his lost brother along with maybe some of his legion and the majority might have joined the 13th legion. thats what i think might have happened you never know.

Tell me what yall think?

One of them went rouge!!?!? Does Mary Kay know?!?!

BTW, you sorta just described Kurze.

[Foxhound2delta]

Yeah that is so Kurze. After doing some more research though I think the other physic to Magnus was Lorgar as his powers develop much as the dropsite massacre.

[Daemonette666]

If I were to team up the Primarchs to be either counters or similar/akin type Primarchs I would list them as follows.

Angron - Russ (both frenzied fighters who rush the enemy head on preferring close quarter fighting)

Vulcan - Ferris Manus ( both weapon smiths who have dealing with the mechanicus, though one more than the other)

Conrad Curze - Sanguinius (both use rapid strike forces to take the enemy by surprise dropping into the heart of their defences and have a greater ammount of jump troops in their forces)

Lion El 'Johnson - Guilliman (knightly warriors who use tactics and combined arms forces to their best uses)

Perturabo - Dorn (Seige and defence specialists)

Fulgrim - ?

Jaghatai Kharn - ?

Alpharius - Corax (both use stealth and sneak tactics)

Lorgar - Magnus the red ( Both seek knowledge, one through sorcery, the other in search of faith, a purpose , a god to worship)

That just leaves Fulgrim and Jaghatai Khan. Both are as un related to each other as Angron is to Magnus. I would propose that the missing Primarchs are their counters. One who tries to achieve perfection in everything, the other who strives to live on the move, always trying to find what is over the next hill, the next experience, hence his use of bikes, rapidly deployed troops in fast rhinos, lots of jet bikes (in the early days).

[inquisitorsog]

I don't think the "pairings" principle really is that prevalent.
For instance
I'd match Lion-Alpharius.
Lion - ends up loyalist, but through treason reasons.
Alpharius - ends up traitor, but through loyalist reasons.

Both are also very secretive to boot. I don't know that Alpharius is stealthy so much as tricky.

Many of the primarchs are secretive though. You could pair Magnus and Lion for the same reasons: Both ended up on the "wrong side" and were doing things in secret before the heresy. Or, maybe pair Lorgar and Lion because both have religious warrior (preacher and monk respectively) aspects.

I'd also match Curze to Corax as the respective stealthies. As the Night Haunter, Curze struck terror into hearts by being the bogie man who was watching and would strike whenever you didn't expect it.

I don't see the II and 11 legions as paired. They just wanted to hold two legions for the purpose of being fan created and they got morphed into the "missing" legions over the years. In current developing backstory, it seems to me one or both never joined the Imperium. Possibly, one died before unification and the other pretended to accept it, but immediately rebelled or refused the offer.