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  1. #1
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    Default CSM (daemon princes) against GK..

    Hey all,
    going to a 1500pt tournament this weekend and am expecting at least 1 GK opponent. I have not played against them yet and i am running two tzeentch daemon princes with wings, bolt of change, and warp time in my list...
    was wondering if there were any GK units that I definitely should not bring my princes into assault with? Don't have the GK codex, so no idea.
    Thanks ahead of time!!!

  2. #2
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    Honestly, any of them. Those Nemesis Weapons will splat you hardcore, as they bypass Eternal Warrior when fighting Daemons. Play the old shoot & scoot, or crush them with overwhelming force before they can strike back. Halberds eat you alive at I6.

  3. #3
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    Thanks.. thats pretty much what i was assuming but wasn't sure if some were worse than others..
    i am running 2 full nurgle tactical marines and a bunch of terminators too, so hopefully those will help!

  4. #4
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    what is the T of princes?

    even though they ignore EW they are only S4 and medicore at assault, with swords doing not much, halbards making them faster marines and falchions giving extra attacks. hammers only will ID heralds and S4 beasties.
    dont assault tarpit 10 man termies, paladins or dragio. purifiers are best shot ot swamped.
    GK arent so good at assalut anymore ( they are a 24' firefights army) so just corner them and eat them up. not much can best 2 princes in CC unless its a big squad



    -fuzz

    just dont assault dreadknights with hammers/swords.
    visit my blog: www.fuzzbuket.blogspot.com I do cheap commsion work
    And COME TO BOLSCON UK and yell about my font!

  5. #5
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    Mark of Tzeentch, so only T5.
    Thanks again for the advice!!!!

  6. #6

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    Just to clarify, Nemesis weapons don't ignore Eternal Warrior. They have a totally separate rule called Daemonbane that will force your daemon princes to take a Leadership test if they have been wounded by any Nemesis weapons that assault phase. If they pass the test, nothing happens; if they fail, they are removed as a casualty even though they have Eternal Warrior. The critical difference between this and ignoring Eternal Warrior is that you have to fail your Leadership test, rather than them having to pass a Leadership test, so this is much more favorable to you than bypassing Eternal Warrior would be. You only ever have to take one Daemonbane test per model per assault phase, no matter how many Nemesis weapons have wounded you.

    That said, all GKs are armed with Nemesis weapons, and all GKs have a psychic power that gives them +1S. So you can expect them to be S5 most of the time. If you're going to assault them, make sure it won't take you very long to kill them or they'll wear you down with S5 attacks, Mark of Tzeentch or no.

    I wouldn't personally worry about halberds too much. Ten halberd attacks on a Tzeentch daemon prince will only lay 1.25 wounds on you, and you don't have to test for Daemonbane until the end of the assault phase (plus, at Ld10, it's unlikely you'll fail your test anyway). What I would avoid are units with invulnerable saves - that is, things in terminator armor and dreadknights, since none of the power-armored Grey Knights have invulnerables - as those will slow down your killing spree.

    Also be very wary of assaulting any unit with an attached independent character, as both the unit and the IC can cast the +1S psychic power, boosting the unit to I6 (or higher, if there are multiple ICs attached). Nemesis daemon hammers are power fist force weapons, so those can also obviously threaten a daemon prince, just like a hidden power fist can.

    Terminators of all kinds and purifiers (elite power-armored GKs) have A2 base, so be wary of that. Paladins (elite terminators) also have W2 base, so they'll take longer for your daemon princes to carve through than you think.

    Hope that's helpful. Good luck!

    EDIT:
    I know you only asked about assault with your princes, but in case you haven't already heard, let me amplify a bit on the whole shooting vs. assault thing. Power-armored GKs (except for the aforementioned purifiers) are only A1 base, so they aren't especially good at close combat. Every man has a force weapon, which can be bad, but at the end of the day, ten PAGKs will only put out 10 S5 power weapon attacks at worst if you get the charge on them. Terminators are A2 base and get some free CC upgrades, but five terminators is still only 10 S5 power weapon attacks (albeit probably at I6, since they can buy the +2I force halberds for free). Hurty, yes, but there are much scarier things in assault - particularly since PAGKs have no invulnerable saves at all, and terminators only have a 5++ (upgradeable to 4++ in assault only if they forego the +2I force halberds and take force swords instead).

    In shooting, it's another story. All GKs have a storm bolter, and all storm bolter-equipped units can buy psybolt ammo to give their guns +1S. The primary squad heavy weapon is the psycannon, which is 24" S7 AP4 assault 4 rending, and all squads can buy one of those for every five men. So consider ten GKs in power armor with the standard two psycannons and psybolts. If you charge them, that's 10 WS4 S5 power attacks at worst. But if you engage in a shooting duel, you're eating 16 BS4 S5 shots and 8 BS4 S7 rending shots. Yeah, you get your armor save against the shooting, but you're taking a lot more hits (3.3 wounds in assault, average of 11.6 wounds in shooting, even with your power armor). For this reason, most players consider GKs much more of a shooting army than an assault army.
    Last edited by Nabterayl; 07-20-2011 at 03:05 PM.

  7. #7
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    Thanks for the details Nabterayl, really appreciate it. Been a while since i've played my CSM and the only reason Im playing them this weekind is because of a recent Daemon Prince conversion I did
    [URL="http://2ndcitywarzone.blogspot.com/2011/07/hellpit-abomination-to-daemon-prince.html"]http://2ndcitywarzone.blogspot.com/2011/07/hellpit-abomination-to-daemon-prince.html[/URL]
    , sorry for the blog plug! But, Im excited so we shall see!

  8. #8

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    Just to clarify, Nemesis weapons don't ignore Eternal Warrior. They have a totally separate rule called Daemonbane that will force your daemon princes to take a Leadership test if they have been wounded by any Nemesis weapons that assault phase. If they pass the test, nothing happens; if they fail, they are removed as a casualty even though they have Eternal Warrior.
    Where is it stated that wording 'removed as a casualty' ignores Eternal Warrior?

    And is it general take on this matter, ie, applies to every army, and every rule that 'removes as a casualty', or just for grey knights vs daemons (and psykers i take)?

  9. #9
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    removed as a casualty does not cause instant death. Eternal Warrior specifically ignores instant death.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildcard View Post
    Where is it stated that wording 'removed as a casualty' ignores Eternal Warrior?

    And is it general take on this matter, ie, applies to every army, and every rule that 'removes as a casualty', or just for grey knights vs daemons (and psykers i take)?
    Eternal Warrior simply says that it ignores Instant Death. As Daemonbane does not inflict Instant Death, Eternal Warrior is not ignored so much as sidestepped. And yes, Daemonbane specifies that it applies to "daemons" (for the definition of which see the GK FAQ) and psykers (for the definition of which infer from the GK FAQ).

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