Valkyrie Squads and coherency

[Morgan Darkstar]

you only use the hull on skimmer models that dont come with the large oval flying base. wave sperpents and the like (if you could take them in sqadrons) would use the hull. you use the base for things like valks, ravens and the caestus.

Where does it say this???

Page 71 small rule book.

Skimmers/ MEASURING DISTANCES

As normal for vehicles distances are measured to and from the skimmer's hull with the exception of the vehicles weapons, access points and fire points.

[Velium]

exactly where it says you use the base that comes with the model. otherwise you cant disembark from your valk if you arent measuring from the base.

the valk came out after the 5th ed book, at that time the only skimmers available in squadrons were vypers and speeders. valkyries coming with the large flying stand and oval base provided a base to measure from.

[Nabterayl]

exactly where it says you use the base that comes with the model. otherwise you cant disembark from your valk if you arent measuring from the base.

You disembark from the base because that's what the [url=http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1490293a_FAQ_ImperialGuard_2009.pdf]IG FAQ[/url] says. For coherency purposes, as the FAQ makes clear, you follow the rule quoted by Morgan Darkstar.

[RealGenius]

Q. How do you treat the Valkyrie base for gaming? Due to its height it seems that it is impossible for a Valkyrie to contest an objective, or for troops to disembark/embark normally.

A. Follow the rules in Measuring Distances in the Skimmers section in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook with the following exception: For the purposes of contesting objectives and embarking/disembarking from a Valkyrie or Vendetta, measure to and from the model’s base. For example, models wishing to embark within a Valkyrie can do so if at the end of their movement, all models within the unit are within 2" of the Valkyrie’s base.

So you only use the base for these cases:
1. Contesting objectives (FAQ)
2. Embarking/disembarking (FAQ)
3. Assault (Skimmer Rules)

Everything else is measured from the hull (not the wings) as laid out in the skimmer rules. (Except shooting as noted above).

[AngelsofDeath]

Well we actually tried this with three Valks at the local store lastnight.(Play testing in action!) Needless to say it wasnt pretty. If you use the hull they can never be lined up three abreast fully. The best we got it was more like a flying V and had to almost include the tail boom at times. These models are big and when you try to keep three together it really makes the board or section of the board you are in seem small. We had the 25% terrain rule going on the table and it almost hurt us as much as it helped us with having to measure and make sure all three could fite in and still be within 4in. Overall it was educational and fun, had a decent group of players who actually put some solid thought into trying to make this work.

Its cool that GW made them into Squads, but after seeing this I wonder if they really took alot of time to look into this, or did they see the tanks in Squads and figured it was cool to put everything into squads.....(Why Not...Its GUARD!!!!)

I actually thought about building a Veteran all Valk transport army, but after realising the squad rules and seeing how big just three were ( This army had 7-8 that I was thinking of) I decided against.

Any unput into your own experience with this would be great.

[Tynskel]

hmm. even if you used the bases, I do not believe you can line the valks up abreast. Their wingspan is large.

[RealGenius]

I actually can't remember a tournament where I've seen Valks/Vendettas in a squadron. I think two would be just hard enough to manage.

[thecactusman17]

So you only use the base for these cases:
1. Contesting objectives (FAQ)
2. Embarking/disembarking (FAQ)
3. Assault (Skimmer Rules)

Everything else is measured from the hull (not the wings) as laid out in the skimmer rules. (Except shooting as noted above).

The wings are a part of the hull. The wings are where weapons are mounted. If the weapons are mounted there, it must be a functional part of the model, and thus count as the hull.

It's like trying to suggest that the Leman Russ cannon turret isn't part of the model for line of sight purposes. That's preposterous.

[AngelsofDeath]

The wings are a part of the hull. The wings are where weapons are mounted. If the weapons are mounted there, it must be a functional part of the model, and thus count as the hull.

It's like trying to suggest that the Leman Russ cannon turret isn't part of the model for line of sight purposes. That's preposterous.

If the wings were considered part of the hull that might help a bit, but then a squadron would take up even that much more room. I could not imagine 9 of these on the board even so.

[Nabterayl]

I have to say that I agree the wings are part of the "hull." True, the word "hull" does not normally mean "wings" (not that aerial transports of any kind have "hulls" per se). But remember that according to page 60, a blast marker that doesn't at least partially touch the hull of a vehicle doesn't hit it at all. I'm not sure I can swallow a rules interpretation that makes a blast marker whose center hole lands on a Valkyrie's wing but doesn't touch the fuselage a complete miss.

Page 60 specifies that the legal target zone for a vehicle is its "hull or turret (ignoring the vehicle's gun barrels, antennas, decorative banner poles, etc.)." I don't think we can take the words "hull or turret" too literally. After all, unarmored vehicles such as buggies don't have hulls, and of course neither do aircraft such as Valkyries. I read the target zone rule as trying to indicate that decorative or movable parts of a vehicle don't count as valid targets. If that's how we interpret page 60, the wings of a Valkyrie are part of its "hull" for rules purposes.