Wbb q

[Ming]

Question - if a necron warrior unit is shot (dropping 10 of 20), and then assaulted (dropping 7 more) and then succombs to sweeping advance (wiping out the rest), what happens if there is a tomb spider 12 inches away and other warriors on board near another TS? Do the 10 lost in HTH stay gone and the other 10 roll WBB? The example in the Necron 5E FAQ is unclear (to me)....Are the ones that come back broken and falling back?

[FirstLegion]

Question - if a necron warrior unit is shot (dropping 10 of 20), and then assaulted (dropping 7 more) and then succombs to sweeping advance (wiping out the rest), what happens if there is a tomb spider 12 inches away and other warriors on board near another TS? Do the 10 lost in HTH stay gone and the other 10 roll WBB? The example in the Necron 5E FAQ is unclear (to me)....Are the ones that come back broken and falling back?

If I understand the situation correctly, only the three remaining warriors still alive to be swept would be destroped. The other 17 warriors would have a chance at WWB because of the spider near them and the other squad of warriors on the table (the spider near them doesn't matter).

That make sense?

[The AKH]

IIRC, the warriors that were caught in the sweeping advance get no WBB. Everyone else gets a chance at WBB and will join the nearest Warrior unit if they succeed. They won't be broken or falling back, unless the unit they join is.

[Chumbalaya]

Codex trumps rulebook, so I say give the crons their WBB.

They need all the help they can get these days

[DarkLink]

It is a bit of a grey area, of which there are two possible interpretations.

1. The swept necrons are killed, but the ones already down get WBB.

2. The entire unit is destroyed, with no WBB whatsoever.

I believe the second is true, as the BRB states "The falling back UNIT is destroyed" (emphasis mine). It seems to me that the entire unit, standing up or not, is removed with no saves allowed. If I had to make the call, I would go with the latter interpretation.

Edit: There is nothing in the codex to trump the rulebook with. WBB is simply another save, which does not state that it overrides sweeping advances. Because the codex does not contradict the rulebook, the rule that sweeping advance negates all saves is not overriden. Similarly, there isn't anything in the Necron 'dex that states that the fallen warriors would get the WBB, as the entire unit is destroyed by the sweeping advance. Though I don't entirely disagree with you about the necrons needing the help. Though our resident necron player NEVER fails his leadership checks, and I've never actually seen his necrons overrun.

[Bravo-52]

I would have to side with Darklink on this one. The whole unit gets destroyed. And I play Necrons. That's why we need a new Codex Baaaaaadly.

[FirstLegion]

It is a bit of a grey area, of which there are two possible interpretations.

1. The swept necrons are killed, but the ones already down get WBB.

2. The entire unit is destroyed, with no WBB whatsoever.

I believe the second is true, as the BRB states "The falling back UNIT is destroyed" (emphasis mine). It seems to me that the entire unit, standing up or not, is removed with no saves allowed. If I had to make the call, I would go with the latter interpretation.

Edit: There is nothing in the codex to trump the rulebook with. WBB is simply another save, which does not state that it overrides sweeping advances. Because the codex does not contradict the rulebook, the rule that sweeping advance negates all saves is not overriden. Similarly, there isn't anything in the Necron 'dex that states that the fallen warriors would get the WBB, as the entire unit is destroyed by the sweeping advance. Though I don't entirely disagree with you about the necrons needing the help. Though our resident necron player NEVER fails his leadership checks, and I've never actually seen his necrons overrun.

Actually, there is.

I don't have my codex with me right now, but there is a line in it (it is only in the latest version of the codex) that states that the fallen necrons are ignored for all in game purposes. Which would include sweeping advance. The real question was are the fallen necrons still part of ANY unit? The codex is pretty clear that they are not, only the FAQ makes that foggy.

[MetalStorm4786]

Actually, there is.

I don't have my codex with me right now, but there is a line in it (it is only in the latest version of the codex) that states that the fallen necrons are ignored for all in game purposes. Which would include sweeping advance. The real question was are the fallen necrons still part of ANY unit? The codex is pretty clear that they are not, only the FAQ makes that foggy.

I play Necrons and where I play, a fallen Warrior still counts as being part of the unit he fell from. Let's say 7 out 10 Warriors fall from shooting. During the beginning of your next turn when you roll for WBB you fail all 7 rolls. Then at the start of your movement phase you decide to teleport that unit through your Monolith portal to re-roll those failed WBB's. The only way they could re-roll is if the 7 fallen were still in the same unit as the 3 standing, since you can't teleport dead models through the portal.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't say that fallen models don't count as part of the unit when they get swept, but do count when using the Monolith. The whole "ignored for in game purposes" mainly refers to the logistics, i.e. you can't measure range from dead necrons, enemies can move within 1" of a dead necron, tanks can roll over dead necrons.

It's because of all this confusion that they will be replacing WBB with FNP, or so says the rumor.

[FirstLegion]

I play Necrons and where I play, a fallen Warrior still counts as being part of the unit he fell from. Let's say 7 out 10 Warriors fall from shooting. During the beginning of your next turn when you roll for WBB you fail all 7 rolls. Then at the start of your movement phase you decide to teleport that unit through your Monolith portal to re-roll those failed WBB's. The only way they could re-roll is if the 7 fallen were still in the same unit as the 3 standing, since you can't teleport dead models through the portal.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't say that fallen models don't count as part of the unit when they get swept, but do count when using the Monolith. The whole "ignored for in game purposes" mainly refers to the logistics, i.e. you can't measure range from dead necrons, enemies can move within 1" of a dead necron, tanks can roll over dead necrons.

It's because of all this confusion that they will be replacing WBB with FNP, or so says the rumor.

I agree about that last part, and I welcome the change. But I disagree with the rest.

I'd say that models do not count as part of the unit UNLESS they get up. The fact that they used to be part of the unit is what gives them an extra change to get up... the re-roll that is given has nothing to do with whether they're part of the unit.

I'd say this is a clear example of a RAW and RAI problem. It's pretty clear to me (and to the Austin stores who have ruled it this way) that they are intended to be able to "have their cake and eat it too". Because it's a bit of a complicated rule, the best way to do it is to let whomever is running the game make a ruling or decide as a group and just play it that way. The FAQ is really no help.

[DarkLink]

I'll admit I missed/forgot about the fallen being ignored when I checked the rules, but for reasons MetalStorm mentioned I still would have to say they are all destroyed.

I've heard many players complain that WBB and the other necron rules aren't that complicated, and shouldn't be replaced by much simpler basic game mechanics like FNP, but it is because of examples like this that I have to disagree with them. The necron 'dex has more little rules issues all over the place than any other codex, and needs to be redone. I even play Daemonhunters (which is also desperately in need of updating) and will say that Necrons should be first. I'd have to say that FNP, Rending Gauss weapons and a few other simple changes would make the codex perfectly viable, without all the complex rules issues that pop up currently.