Really?
I feel ever so lethargic if I go more than a couple of days without anysort of meat.
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Really?
I feel ever so lethargic if I go more than a couple of days without anysort of meat.
I feel morally and physically improved. All I really do anymore is work out, drink smoothies, and eat vegetables.
Treated myself to an ice cream yesterday though.
Wolfie's Money Saving Tip: Once made, mash potato can be frozen and stored indefinately. Just thaw out and microwave.
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You feel much better after you have had a sausage in you...Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychosplodge
http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=HN.607...d=1.9&rs=0&p=0
Toad in The Indian Hole......
Make sossies, adding in classic indian spices in place of more usual ones.
Bit of curry powder in the batter, replacing the mustard....
Once cooked, a curry sauce over the top instead of gravy. Served with a dhal, in place of mash.
Lashfords make a Balti-sausage.
I just prefer to have not taken an innocent piggy life for my pleasure.
[url]http://images.amcnetworks.com/ifc.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/cute-piglet-ONN.jpg[/url]
He has boots!
You mean you are denying the pigs ultimate purpose in life, after all "they were born for this".
But in all seriousness, if you want to be a vegeterain that is fine and great for you, it is just a lifestyle choice that I cannot agree with.
Just make sure that you are still getting enough vitamins and minerals as some are quite hard to source in a vegeterain diet and without them you can be ill and more at risk to sickness.
What makes you think Piggy was innocent? One of the advantages of being the local (self appointed) Witch Finder is that no animal I ever eat as actually innocent!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzeentch's Dark Agent
And it's not pleasure - it's survival. Long as you source it from ethical farms, I'm quite happy. Use every bit you can, and waste as little as possible.
Oh don't worry, it's not a lifestyle choice I would force on anyone, but y'know, it's a good one to pick. And I am full o' minerals. (my parents are vegetarian, so they knew exactly what I needed)
They weren't born to be locked in a shed with little to no room, forced to eat crap, and then to be slaughtered by the dozen. That's no life for anything, I wouldn't wish that upon Justin Bieber. Okay, maybe I would. But you get the idea.
What do you mean by ethical farm.
Battery farming chicken is following the ethics of consequentialism.
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Urgh, I'm 6 proms behind..
Battery farming can NEVER be classed as ethical.
One where they're free range, and not pumped full of hormones.
Stress hormones affect the meat, making it a lower quality too. Biggest issue we face in today's society in the slightly bizarre notion that humanity is entitled to two chickens for £3....there's no need for it!
Yes it can.
It follows the tehtics of consequentialism.
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That is the ends justifies the means. The end is to produce as much chicken as possible at the lowest possible cost. Therefore any methods that enable that are just as a consequence of the outcome.
No it can't, once made I eat it all...Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfshade
Also lmao
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzeentch's Dark Agent
If a pig had the chance he'd kill you and everyone you ever cared about.
You can see the murder in his eyes. Never get knocked unconscious in a pig pen, they'll eat you alive...
Wolfshade, that is f'ing bullsh!t, you knew exactly what I meant. Battery farming is a crime against nature, all it does it throw lives away so that the [email protected] who goes to McDonalds with his bratty kids can eat Chicken f'ing Nuggets. How would you like it if I took your dogs and threw them in a factory farm for the Koreans?
You wouldn't battery farm your pet chickens...
It was Mystery who mentioned ethical farming, I was just sugesting that one has to be very careful with what people mean by various words as consequentialism is a form of ethics.
My dogs are the wrong breed to be eaten, you are looking for chinese black dog. But then the situation really isn't the same, the dogs were born to be pets, not food. Lab mice are born to be lab mice. Farmed rabbits are bread to be food and are not the same as the domesticated rabbits that we sell as pets.
I know only two farmers, the one is a dairy farmer and so does not eat his cows as they are "milkers" the other is pig man who does eat his pigs, his pigs wouldn't have been reared if they weren't going to be ultimately slaughtered.
So you see how the situation is not the same since the purpose is different.
You could make the argument that wild deer is not born for venison so eating that owuld be wrong, but on a grander scheme without large predators they are prone to over populate areas grazing them to destruction, so their numbers need to be reduced. So in such circumstances it is of greater benefit to kill the deer, but then what to do with the carcass? Leave it to rot, or make venison? There are arguemnets on both sides.
I do agree though that battery farming is wrong and is not moral. But with "free range" and "organic" meat costing more society faces the issue, to eat less meat or pay more for it. Which unfortunately, consumerism wants more for less so spaces reduce and you end up with factory farm indoor rear cows for instance.
For what it is worth, I as a consequence eat less meat, though I do not have vegeterian days. But, people will still buy iceland mince mostly-beef.
Anyone any good at economics? Because I've got a question about the cost of meat and relativity and that.
So, Battery Farms produce cheap meat.
Free Range Farms produce more expensive meat.
Organic Farms produce expensive meat.
What would happen if we took away the Battery Farms? Would taking away the cheapest option open up the economy of scale to bring down the prices of the medium option, as they are more readily able to sell their goods?
Also, as touched on earlier, Britain needs to belt up and realise that meat every day is a priv, not a right. Hugh's Chicken Run opened my eyes more than a little, and I've got massive 'nuff respek for Mr Fearnley-Whittingstall.
[url=https://imgflip.com/i/anu3l]https://i.imgflip.com/anu3l.jpg[/url][url=https://imgflip.com/memegenerator]via Imgflip Meme Maker[/url]
Dude, the biggest worry in my life is the health of my SO, after that its the stress of trying to climb onto the housing ladder, beyond that there's very little I have time to lose sleep over.
I was aiming that at Wolfshade.
No worries, thought it might have been a neutral neutral reply :)
No.
It is quite complicated and there are many different things that one needs to take into account.
The cost of maintaining a herd is expensive, but there are economies of scale. So the more heads of cow you have the cheaper they become. But there is a hard limit on this, the amount space you have.
Post WW2 the demand for beef increased, also so did wages, so meat became more accessible so people wanted more.
The pressure to create more beef led to some people realising that if they were to feed them grains (for instance) they would need less grass for grazing so you could then for instance a grass field might have previously supported 30 cows, could now support 60. This economy made this the new normal, then someone realised that if you were to keep them in sheds you could give them spaces, but you didn't need to worry about bad weather and use "natural" lights to get more breeding cycles in as well.
Then people reasied you could mess about with their hormones and get more meat per cow and so on and so forth.
Ultimately, the most cost effective method of meat farming is battery as you minimise the space per animal. So going back to jsut grass fed is not practical at this levels of production.
If we reduced the amount of cattle then we could do that, unfortunately, the population size has swelled massively from 46 million to 59 million so the demand has increased and the space for farming has reduced.
The other issue that one has to consider with grass fed option. Grass fed cows produces significiantly more methane than grain fed, so if you had grass fed you massively increase green house gasses. Indeed some stats suggest that 14% of global greenhouse emissions are from agriculture.
I just don't understand how you can defend battery farming on a mere situational point of view.
Animals are born to be animals, they aren't born for a specific purpose, and quite frankly, laboratory experimentation on animals is inhumane and appalling.
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Your attitude towards animals is disgusting Wolfshade.
I have never defended battery farming. I have explained how it is a consequence of societies demand for more and cheaper meat. I have also never stated what my attitude is towards animals. You make many assumptions.
Animals born in domesticated settings are born for a reason. That is the reality of the situation.
I shall give you another example, a woman I know breeds pedigree miniature bull terriers. Now her dogs are pets and she does not do it on a commerical scale, rearing at most 1 litter every 7 years. With only having 1 breeding ***** and only breeding one litter.
That ***** only breeds because my friend wants it to breed, she selects the mate based on pedigree and ensuring that they are not too closely related.
Those puppies are not born because the dog wants to raise puppies, they are raised to be sold for a siginficant amount of money. That is the truth, her biotch does not mate randomly, those puppies are commodities to be sold.
Another situation, breeding programs in zoos. The zoo deliberately breeds rare creatures to populate other zoos and to re-intorudce them into the wild, they would not be able to bread otherwise.
Of course laboratory experimentation on animals is inhuman, they are using animals not humans. It is the very deffinition. I am not sure where I stand on animal experimentation. For cosmetic purproses it is wrong. But when it comes to other things I am not so sure. We must consider humans to be above animals, otherwise we would eat people, so if we are above them, then it is more morally just to experiment on animals than it is to do it on people. I have heard passionate arguments on both sides of the fence for this and I am unsure which is best. I suppose the steel test is this. If you are afflicted by an illness that would mean certain death would you take a cure that was only discovered and proven safe by animal experimentation? For me the answer would be yes. So I suppose I must be in favour of it.
You are actually just rattling off facts over why factory farming is economically better, ergo, defending it's existence. If more people actually just ate organically then there would be no need for vegetarianism. Cruelty to animals, on any level, in any setting, is evil and abhorrent. Tolerance of this is JUST as bad.
So a history student explaining a certain Adolf H's rise to power therefore is defending it?
I find your logic quite baffeling.
If the world eat only organic food, we would need to seriously depopulate it. I mean signficant %s equating to many many million, and yet I am the monster...
As you have stated, things breed, why do we need to keep them in a cage?
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Anyway, I'm going out. Enjoy your carcass.
We will. Meat tastes good, and as a species we're adapted for it. No need to go getting morally smug on either side of the fence.
In other news, I've now taken delivery of 'Vault of Horror' by Amicus Studios.
This now completes my collection of the Amicus Horror Anthology movies. HURRAH!
We don't and I never said we should. But ho-hum that would interfere with your narrative wouldn't it.
Fun facts for you, if we want to organicly feed people, bearing in mind that we will have to sythesise of Nitrogen by the mega tonne. But we look at comparisons and they fall between 95% efficient down to 66% efficiency depending on the crop and location.
So we must covert more and more land to agriculture. So you then end up having to destroy ecosystems, like forests and jungles and give them over to organic culture. Destroying millions of acres of eco-ssytems killing off millions of creatures, mamals, plants and birds.
So you end up killing off upto a third of the world population and many millions of speices of plant and animals all in order to look after the well being of some relatively few heads of cattle or pig or what have you.
Of course the other option is to eat less meat but continue to farm both meat and vegetables non-organically with GM crops.
Also thinks how many breeds would be extinct as we wouldn't be farming them, and they'd then be considered pests.
I think none cosmetic animal testing is a necessary evil. Cosmetic testing is just cruel.
But you shouldn't eat people for the same reason you shouldn't eat any upper food chain omnivore/carnivore. You find toxins concentrated in the meat in closer to harmful levels than you would just eating the herbivores, I think the common example is radioactivity levels in dolphins or something.
hehehe: [url]http://www.buzzfeed.com/laurasilver/signs-you-were-a-brummie-teenage-goth-ul08[/url]
worryingly accurate
I'm less interested in organic than I am in free range. Giving animals the amount of space they need to enjoy a quality of life that is positive is important. Against pumping them full of unnecessary chemicals too but sometimes it is necessary to maintain the health of the herd. Organic farming I think is fine at a local and domestic levle but the fact is we need industrial farming to feed our population and supplementing it with organic is good but one cant replace the other. We grow most of what we eat ourselves but we have the space, tiem and money to do so and mot people don't. I love the idea of communal gardens and people using window sills, balconies, roofs and even inside pots to grow vegetables to supplement their diet though.
Did you often pretend to be Nancy?
Yup.Quote:
Originally Posted by eldargal
I'd love to find a landshare type thing, like a communal small holding. The investors club together to buy and raise the animals, and get a share of the spoils. Lovely!
Poking about....seems there's more than a few Allotments knocking about my town....
Would be rude not to! Shall grow spuds and onions and leeks and carrots and STUFF.
also when it comes to stuff like wheat and staple grains I don't really give a damn about organic, I've seen taste tests done where most peopel can't tell the damned difference. Much more in favour of crop diversity and different varieties of vegetable than strict organic.
Don't bother doing anything in the garden until october ish.
It is too late now.
I grow my own usually, my potatoes have really come on over the last 2 weeks shooting up to a couple of feet from just a few inches, though i don't know when they went in so harvesting may change.
I have the left side of my garden dedicated to soft fruits, and the right to root vegetables. plans are afoot for more
Still need to apply, and then buy gardening tools, so October actually works out about nice!
I read something online about growing potatoes in a big rubbish bag full of soil mix to save garden space once, wish I could find that. Idea being it lets people with no or very limited garden space grow a staple starch.