On the bright side, there seems a good chance they'll.... Uh, gain a new perspective on consent and its implications courtesy of Mr Big in Prison..Quote:
Originally Posted by eldargal
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On the bright side, there seems a good chance they'll.... Uh, gain a new perspective on consent and its implications courtesy of Mr Big in Prison..Quote:
Originally Posted by eldargal
I'm not over fond of The Onion but they were oddly prophetic with this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWLJZw9Ws-g&sns=fb
Apparently the victim has been getting death threats. Classy.
So reading more about it:
The coach found out about the rape and helped the rapists and their friends destroy evidence.
He is friends with the town sheriff who initially declined to take action.
The family went to the town prosecutor (if that is the correct title) who advised them that it would be very difficult to find evidence and take it to trial. Her son is on the football team.
It took a local blogger and the hacker group Anonymous to get this evidence to light.
Some of the videos taken by witnesses include people implicating themselves in the crime yet they have not been charged and the sheriff refuses to make more arrests.
So in addition to the heinous rape itself you have corruption of breathtaking boldness in this local community. On the credit side the local police chief apparently was quite keen to let outside police investigate.
Watching some of the videos taken by witnesses/rapists it is truly staggering how absolutely foul these young men are.
And they got sentenced to 1 year, there's justice for you, ****ing incredible. Must have been all the crocodile tears in court.
The whole thing is rotten. Apparently they were going to be tried as adults but that was mysteriously changed after a meeting between the sheriff, town prosecutor and an influential town personage.
Could be worse you could have Bill Roache (Ken Barlow) running around telling them that it was the viticims fault because of their past lives...
Do you have a source for that? All I can find are articles referring to the minimum sentences, which are two years for Mays (rape + distributing pictures) and one year for Richmond (rape). I can't find any sources for the actual sentences, either for the actual amount of juvenile detention time (up to the age of 21 in both cases), or for how long they are going to have to register as sex offenders (potentially for the rest of their lives, as I understand it).Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadlift
I have to say, while I agree with everything that's been said about the crime in particular and rape culture in general (I haven't been following this enough to comment on the networks' coverage), I don't have a strong sense that justice has miscarried. How can I? No sentence has been given yet (as far as I can tell). They've been adjudicated guilty (well, "delinquent," which is the technical term for guilty in juvenile cases). Well and good. I can hardly fault the court for not passing sentence the same day guilt is determined.
It might be worth bearing in mind that if they had been tried as adults, [url=http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2907.02]Ohio law[/url] provides a penalty of [url=http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2929.14]five to eleven years in prison[/url]. Obviously that is much greater than the two to four years that Mays faces or the one to five years that Richmond faces, and obviously there is a big difference between Ohio prisons and Ohio juvenile delinquent facilities. But from a justice standpoint, what I'm more interested in is what level of the sex offender registry they'll be in/for how long after their incarceration (I admit I have a fairly dim view of the justicial value of incarceration). That seems like the real punishment here to me. As I think we've discussed before, registering as a sex offender in the United States is an enormous stigma, both socially and professionally.
Okay, [url=http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/17/justice/ohio-steubenville-case]apparently[/url], the court is reserving that part of the sentence until after their incarceration. I ... can see that. But in any case, I don't see even a sentence for incarceration, so I can't feel outraged at how much or how little time they've been given. And since I think the real punishment here is the sex offender registry, I can't really feel outraged at the level they've been ordered to register at on a permanent basis, because they haven't gotten a permanent order yet.
[url]http://sports.yahoo.com/news/highschool--steubenville-high-school-football-players-found-guilty-of-raping-16-year-old-girl-164129528.html[/url]
I read this
The way I read it was one got a minimum of one year and the other got an additional year for distributing photos etc. Obviously as the article I linked says they could get longer depending on an evaluation. Is this likly ?
I don't know enough juvenile sex crime cases, or Ohio state judges, or Judge Lipps, to speculate. From the little I've been able to piece together about Lipps specifically, I get the impression that he's very cognizant of the fact that the guilty parties are children but doesn't seem especially impressed that they're hometown football heroes. The fact that he's waiting to determine how long they'll have to register as sex offenders (the minimum for rape in Ohio is 10 years, I believe, but a court can order registration for longer) certainly suggests to me that he's theoretically open to not ****ing the whole rest of their lives. The facility where the AG wants to put these guys apparently has a reputation for the quality of its work with juvenile sex offenders, so it kind of seems like he's willing to wait and see what they look like coming out of that program before deciding how much of the book to throw at each of them. That in turn suggests to me that he's genuinely interested in the recommendations of the child-services experts that the article mentions as to final incarceration lengths.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadlift
So you can rape a girl over a period of hours, dragging her to three different parties while unconscious, photograph her, send the photos to others and get one year in a correctional facility. That totally send the message that rape is a serious crime.
People wonder why I and a lot of women get absolutely enraged by cases like these. You can get more than that for driving intoxicated in Ohio.
But the victims life is ruined, FOX News has even named her. She has been getting death threats for gods sake. So much consideration is given for the rapists future and so little for hers. **** the rapists, let's hear how they are planning on helping the victim. Because so far the only people talking about that are bloggers and the odd journalist.Quote:
The fact that he's waiting to determine how long they'll have to register as sex offenders (the minimum for rape in Ohio is 10 years, I believe, but a court can order registration for longer) certainly suggests to me that he's theoretically open to not ****ing the whole rest of their lives
I hear what you're saying, but listen to what you're saying. The minimum penalty for rape by a juvenile offender in Ohio is ten years on the sex offender registry and one year in a correctional facility. Add another year of incarceration for the photography and an indeterminate effect on the sex offender registration. The minimum penalty for intoxicated driving in Ohio, even by an adult, is a $375 fine and no time in a correctional facility (though three days in jail).Quote:
Originally Posted by eldargal
Maybe the minimum penalty for rape should be higher. I don't personally think it's facially unreasonable to say that the minimum penalty for first-time rape by a juvenile sex offender should be death. But the comparison you drew is not accurate.