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So I have been slowly working on an armoured guard list for ages and with 8th coming I am stuck on what direction to go in now, Wait for DKOK rules and go with them or keep working on my armored idea using Scions(With there lovely op transports) as my troops? (Or just use the elite formation with vet squads in chimera's and lots of russes\tanks...)
What do you guys think?
I think all armoured lists will be a thing, and a pain in the arse for a lot of people to deal with.
I guess, But with the cost of transports no mater what now you have to take a fair amount of meat shields.......Quote:
Originally Posted by Denzark
I think the mech Astra/Scions lists will be very, very good.
Sure close combat is better, but this is still a game of moving and shooting. The Taurox has an assault cannon(?) that shoots 20 shots!
I ran up a 1000 pt Armoured column a couple of months ago. Pask with a Vanquisher and Battle Tank, two Vet Squads with Chimera transports, an armoured sentinel and a Scion Deep Strike Team. From my first review of the new rules this would still be a tough unit, (Though I admit I don't have the Index Imperial 2).
The thing to get my head around is the new points system which looks a bit weird. It looks like your opportunity to add numbers to units is now severely compromised. In the Eldar for example you can field 5 Warp Spiders at "Power Rating 5". You can add 5 more at a "+5 Power Rating" but not just one more. There are a couple of examples of that and why would you if for a second squad you get another Exarch?
And are you at all freaked out that vehicles now have weapon skills and attack values? When my troops disembark, the Wave Serpent is going to assault first. Then the target unit can't over watch my assault troops. Who said Eldar were nurfed
Short answer: yes, armoured AM is still a thing. In fact, I think it's better than ever for then following reasons (whether you're taking Scions or Vets):
1) you don't need a separate transport for your officer giving orders; he's in the same transport using the previous vacant 2 spots in a chimera (saving you points)
2) orders happen automatically, one of which is re-rolling 1's (making your special weapons more effective)
3) you choose wound allocation, so you can keep your special weapons alive longer (making your special weapons more effective)
4) plasma and meltaguns are cheaper; plasma is a third of what it was! (saving you points)
5) you can fall back from assaults, then get an auto order to fire normally, so it's less of a risk getting closer to the enemy (making your special weapons more effective)
The only negative in 8th to armoured lists IMO, is that you have to disembark BEFORE the vehicle move (unless you're using a Valkyrie).
What you should be asking yourself is: is a footslogging guardsmen horde better?
One other thing to watch out for with your tanks is infantry getting close to them. If they get 1" away then the Tank can't shoot any of its guns and nothing can shoot at the unit hugging it either. The tank can Fall Back but unless it has a special rule it still can't shoot that turn. It can Assault the unit but tanks are generally bad at that sort of thing.
As a follow up, I just came back fro WHW GT Heat 1, having taken my Guard. An all-armoured list took a best army vote, and also did quite well. I was the top placed guard list, where I had 3 LR (1 Demolisher), 1 Basi, 1 Manticore, 2 Wyverns, and 3 Medusas. I also had a 30 man conscript blob, 2 inf squads and a few characters.
Now the re-roll for Catachan multi shot weapons was awesome - although I played against a 3 x SH list which went Valhallan, so for damage purposes the vehicles count as half damage, so perform at full strength a lot longer.
In short, Guard all-vehicle lists are still a thing of terror to opponents - but this is making best use of the artillery. From a real world perspective, I only count tanks as armour, and an all tank list will not fair as well as a vehicle mix.
There is a danger for the infantry though. I don't see anywhere that says vehicles can't overwatch. And some of those vehicles have nasty multi shot weapons. They still only hit on 6, but if one turns up your assault squad could be turned to soup. And any casualties contribute against the moral roll.Quote:
One other thing to watch out for with your tanks is infantry getting close to them. If they get 1" away then the Tank can't shoot any of its guns and nothing can shoot at the unit hugging it either. The tank can Fall Back but unless it has a special rule it still can't shoot that turn. It can Assault the unit but tanks are generally bad at that sort of thing.
I regularly run all-tank Guard lists. They're pretty awesome. I've generally been able to wipe the board, though it's dependent upon correct target focus and deployment.