Looks like someone got their WD a bit early:
[IMG]http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/...on/sob0001.jpg[/IMG]
I'm not sure the BoLS rules allow me to post the rest. Its only the bestiary.
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Looks like someone got their WD a bit early:
[IMG]http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/...on/sob0001.jpg[/IMG]
I'm not sure the BoLS rules allow me to post the rest. Its only the bestiary.
Eldargal gets the scoop again.
Interesting that they've put pictures next to each entry. Might indicate whether any new models are coming?
Any news on the back page announcement?
The idea of a Sister Command Squad is kind of cool - and if they re-release that Hospitaler model I'd be alright with that. I don't play Sisters, but I've always really liked that model - wouldn't mind seeing my friend fielding a command squad with one of 'em in there. :)
It really is frustrating knowing that the actual rules for using all of these gals is another month off, though.
No new models posted that I can see. I would execpt any models (new or Finecast) to be released in September when the actual army list is published.
Agreed, I'm thinking are there any conspicuous absences, like missing sisters repentia for example. I doubt they'd put up a pic ogf the old model and then replace them next month with new ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by eldargal
If all entries are represented by existing models it strongly hints at a modelless or finecast only release.
Cool. It looks like they stream lined acts of faith, just don't know how to us faith yet. Also the two units have unique faith. The abilty to rapid fire and assault at int 4 with re roll hits seem pretty cool.
What is also nice is the Cannoness is bs 5 and ws 5. I also noticed it seems like frag and krack might be standard. Can't say much without knowing weapon options, what abilities due, and point cost.
If the command squad can take plasma the rentless would be very nice and heavy bolters would be a good option as well.
What I don't like so far is they do sell the two new options seperate already, but they really cost. If they make a box set option it would be nice.
Is Laud hailer a simple typo or a clever play on words? Edit: likely to be a play on words [url]http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/laud[/url]
Also those models have the old style SOB power armour, my understanding was (I could be wrong) that it was going to be updated and slightly.
All units have a picture with them. It does seem absurd that GW would rush out a WD SoB codex, release no models with it despite having already made the moulds for new plastics. I can't imagine they would go to the effort of making Finecast Sisters when they will be replaced (in six months or so if the rumours are true) by plastic.
So why go to all this effort? Hell they are supposed to have had a proper SoB codex almost ready to go anyway.
Some belief it's to get rid of allies before another Ard Boys come around. Some people like me still use sister allies, so now I will have to finish my sister army.
I've heard that theory, I find it bizarre that GW would go to all that effort to do something for a tournament scene they really don't care for that much. They could just make a tournament rule saying no allies.
Trying to curry good will from the community after the FineCast/embargo/price rise fiasco by bringing it out early?
The only precedent I can think of os fantasy warriors of chaos where a new book (daemons) had new rules for models that already existed and GW didn't want two sets of rules for the same unit so the did a quick fix list and replaced it soon after.Quote:
Originally Posted by eldargal
The parallel here is grey knights and henchmen but this new faith system feels like a lot of effort just to replace the henchmen.
Speaking of Faith, you get D6 faith points per turn, each unit has special Acts of Faith with ICs bringing theirs to squads. One SC lets you reroll the FP D6. Faith points work on a roll of 5+, with up to three extra points added to the roll for squad leader, IC presence or casualty taken. I'm hoping there is wargear that gives you extra faith points or something.
In other words you get hosed on faith. A 5+ really, but I guess that stops the two cannoness squads that can auto pass on some faith and use lit of faith to use powers that don't auto pass. Although it seems like as long as you don't roll a 1 your HQ will be good. With martyrdoom and having faithful units I could have enough faith to spare. With d6 faith a turn that can hurt, also if it stacks towards next turn that would be great.
Acts of Faith won't be nearly as good, no. Before, with a little care, it wasn't hard to control and rely on using them when you need them. With this, they become more unreliable, not to mention harder to stack, as even with the Command Squad only needing a 3+ or 2+ to succeed, there's still the issue of just how many points you rolled, and a couple bad rolls can leave you without any faith powers active at all during a crucial turn. Interesting note: Seraphim can reroll their Acts of Faith rolls I saw.
I won't go into too many details, but I'll note a few things that stood out to me. Some interesting stuff, no "new" special characters, but Kyrinov and Jacobus are back. One part that really stood out to me was the vehicle entries: ALL OF THEM have Shield of Faith listed. That's the rule that gives a 6++, so Immolators, Rhinos, and the Exorcist all have a 6++ (actually pretty much everything has a 6++).
Sisters Repentia also have NO ARMOR SAVE. Also, no Frateris Militia per se, but there is a Battle Conclave, which is a squad that may contain Archo-Flagellants, Crusaders, and/or Death Cult Assassins.
I dunno what to really say about it all. We're still missing stuff like Wargear, but some of this is interesting. It will help to see the points too, but aside from faith nothing seems terribly new. The faith will be the biggest issue, as it will require vast adaptation to adjust the armies and strategies to fit it.
Suffice it to say, Every Single Bad Thing I've had to say about this codex was absolutely right. They aren't even releasing plastics-- the codex just re-used old miniatures, art, and photos of miniatures from previous codices. No new units, three units were merged into one unit (crusaders, arco-flagellants, death cult are now one squad type where you purchase X amount of each). A couple old characters from second edition brought back; Kyrinov looks incredibly generic and not actually all that helpful to the army, but Jacobus shows promise and looks to be powerful enough to justify taking. Seraphim and Celestians have been nerfed to I3. All units have precisely ONE Act of faith and pretty much all of them suck except for the Repentia power. Which is useless if they're killed in shooting (like they usually are) instead of in assault. Acts of Faith no longer scale with army size, you get D6 no matter how many units you have-- making Battle Sisters all the worse for it. Immolators lost their fire point and the ability to fire after moving full out with TLHFs, so now they really are just razorbacks. And useless.
Only a few good notes: Bolt pistols and frag/krak are standard. Shield of Faith applies to vehicles, and they get smoke for free (but no searchlights). Seraphim shoot with each pistol individually, but they lose their special hit and run rule and must now make initiative tests to use hit and run... at their new reduced initiative of I3. The Penitent Engine gets extra attacks for unsaved wounds it makes, so it hits harder, but it's still AV11 open topped so it'll again not actually make it into combat anyway, especially since it's now slower than in the previous codex (holy rage was superior to rage). Celestians gain an extra attack, but their act of faith sucks for assaulting (+1 strength is nice, but fearless ISN'T on I3 / T3 models). Canoness gains +1 WS, but with the loss of the armoury I doubt we'll be able to use it--a nd she's still merely I4. Living Saint Celestine gains in WS, BS, and Initiative, but she's still a T3 model without eternal warrior. Her sword' wounds easier against high T models... which to her is anything other than a guardsman, whom she wounds LESS often now than before. And it's no longer master-crafted.
So every single good thing I had to say about it was countered by a bad thing. Overall, I was right, it does blow JUST as much as I was expecting... but I'm still sorely disappointed about that fact. And the sad part, it's not over yet. Now we get to see what stupid points costs they're going to give and waht we lost from losing our armoury.
It's always been a laud hailer, nothing new there. A giant Speaker Spouting out praises to the Emperor, thus Laud Hailer is correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grailkeeper
As for the models? Duh, of course they have the old style models. They aren't releasing plastic with this ****ty codex.
So if one were interested in seeing the rest and judging for oneself where (in theory) would that person go to see the rest of this?
Go buy this month's White Dwarf and then next month's too.
I do plan on it, if they ever show up at the local store.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melissia
(but that's a MUCH longer story with no bearing on this) :(
That's what they are, scans of the WD. Can't help ya if teh WD isn't carried....
If you can wait, they'll probably have a PDF to download a little after the WD comes out. At least they did for Blood Angels. I think they did as well for Warriors of Chaos, but I'm not too sure about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by gwensdad
You can reverse engineer the image data to find what photo service provider and account the image was posted from and then do a look-up for that account on that photo service.Quote:
Originally Posted by gwensdad
I hate to say it, but I have to acknowledge that thus far Melissia's theory is pretty much spot on. I hadn't noticed the Initiative nerf, but that's a pretty big nerf for the Seraphim's Hit and Run and for Celestians to actually BE GOOD in melee, as they are unlikely to be able to hit first against much, and while they got A2, they also lost Holy Hatred. They'll be effective against shooty squads like Fire Warriors and Guardsmen, even Tactical Marines, but they'll be slaughtered by more dedicated close combat squads, like Assault Marines. Otherwise they are essentially just like Battle Sisters but not dependent on the Superior for Ld.
As for Repentia... I have a suspicion there will be something in the Army List that says "They cannot take a transport" but there is nothing listed in their rules saying that they cannot take or board a transport. I feel they are improved in melee, much like the Penitent Engine, but we still have the same problem with actually getting them there. Holy Rage was superior to Rage, and Fleet doesn't entirely make up for it. Then there's FNP, which is basically what they had before, and the apparently army wide 6++, which offers a slight improvement in survivability, but overall it looks about the same with actually getting them there. Transport might fix that IF they can take one.
The only unit that really stands out to me is the Sororitas Command Squad, which may have some potential, but at the same time I don't see it being anywhere near as effective as my 3rd Edition command squad. The melee power just isn't there that I can tell, and although a Hospitaller almost assuredly gives FNP, that's nothing compared to the old Spirit of the Martyr, and it's a little sad when the new Command Squad has to burn a faith point to get the SAME STATS THEY HAD IN 3RD EDITION (The Passion would return the Command Squad's Init to 4, which it was by default in 3rd, and Preferred Enemy is only slightly better than Holy Hatred). That irritates me some, but Endless Crusade is kinda neat, but all combined the package does not look nearly as scary as a squad slamming something with S5 Rending and S8 Power attacks from under a squad-wide 3++ and Holy Hatred with To Hit rerolls on charges.
Still, there is the points to consider, and if they resemble horde army cheap that could be worth some serious debate, because to me it seems like you need some serious numbers to make this work.
I don't see anything GREAT in thows two pages, but don't see anything bad either. The points coasts are what will make or break this book.
Ha! GW pisses off their loyal customers by monkeying (again) with the White Dwarf mailing schedule trying to prevent early leaks and it still doesn't work, which is not a surprise. When you print thousands of copies of something "perfection" is impossible. They need a dose of realism and to stop irking their customers trying to control everything every moment, it's just not possible.Quote:
Looks like someone got their WD a bit early:
Sister Dialogus? Interesting, an amplified demagogue and fanatic whose job it is to stir up fervor with the SoB. I have several jokes to make about that, but they write themselves so I'll leave it to the imagination.
What? You mean like, "the loss of allies revealed," or some such? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Brass Scorpion
You mean aside from the overly complicated, limited, and linear (shoehorning each unit into a role) acts of faith, the complete lack of any leadership buff for the entire army, the nerf to the initiative of Sisters veterans, etc?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lockark
If Sisters are turned into cheap cannon fodder, what's the point? You might as well play guard if you want a horde of cheap cannon fodder-- at least then you'd have tanks and artillery to back them up. It goes completely and utterly against the feel and purpose of the Sisters of Battle.
Even bearing in mind we don't have the full picture yet, there may be generic acts of faith and wargear options which let you tailor things a lot more etc. this is still looking like a fairly poor effort. I do hope the rumours about a proper codex coming in 6 months are accurate.
If SoB are cheaper, that means more squads, which makes the new Faith system even more useless. At 1500 points in C:WH you might have three squads of sisters plus a few others so a D6 of faith points could work, but if they get cheaper then it won't and it will fail to scale spectacularly.
Why would they separate the generic Acts of Faith from the rules on Acts of Faith?Quote:
Originally Posted by eldargal
Far be it for I to suggest GW is anything other than mouth-breathing moronic simpletons when it comes to their handling of Sisters, but it still seems unlikely.
Well it isn't likely but as we lack the army list section it is possible there will be options to buy extra powers or some such. Point is we don't have the full picture yet, we don't even know we have every page of the bestiary. Don't get me wrong it is still dissapointing and stupid, the whole thing, I'm just saying we don't know everything yet and there may be some mitigation once we do have the full picture.
Another thing that really annoys me, they bring back two 2nd ed codex priest characters, but not Saint Praxedes or Helena the Virtuous? Stupid.
Entirely agreed. This is boring trash. There's no feeling of religious fervour in ordinary abilities, or any feeling of the Emperor's favour in Acts of Faith.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melissia
Sure, and the US might end up having a Green Party as president :PQuote:
Originally Posted by eldargal
Indeed, I'm just saying we don't have all the facts yet. I do like the changes to Saint Celestine though, maybe if the Sisters get some really impressive wargear options things won't be so bad?:rolleyes:
On the plus side, no mention of the Inquisition at all.
It take a lot for me to agree with you on anything, but in this case i have to. Regardless of unit price, this "codex" isn't just rushed, it actively diminishes and devalues the units in question, the thematic strengths of the army, and frankly is a stain on White Dwarf itself which is a stunning achievement for something that is largely reviled now by many veteran gamers. I am going to properly read through the article asap, and unless there are unreported elements of this codex that can severely change my mind I will be writing to let GW know that they may have lost my interest and enthusiasm as a customer and player of the very army they are trying to sell me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melissia
d6 Faith Points per-turn is pretty disappointing. Couldn't they have gone with something a bit less random, like 2d3 so there's some kind of bell curve? How about rolling 2d6 and taking whichever die has the higher value? And the fact that you have to roll a single d6 again to determine whether or not the Act of Faith even triggers is even more absurd. It's riverboat gambling.
In the age of wound allocation and massive amounts of AP3 or better firepower out there, Sisters just got shafted hard. This is the worst PDF "codex" I could possibly have envisioned and I don't care how low costed they are, unless they are 2pts per model and unlimited squad sizes it won't matter one whit what the rest of the rules say. Effing ridiculous if they think this will bring in even one new Sisters player. Frankly, it will probably drive the few of us who remain away :(...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lockark
Sisters are Guardsmen with a 3+ and magic praying powers. I don't know what you people were expecting considering your previous Codex.
Gee, not downgrading stats would be a start. Making sure the list was at least as good as the 11+ year old book we have now would be a good second.Quote:
Originally Posted by SMC