epicQuote:
Originally Posted by Gotthammer
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epicQuote:
Originally Posted by Gotthammer
The wench received her copy of tomodachi life today, and I've since then I've been receiving texts about how wonderful it is.
It's apparently really cute, and you can give the gift of Heavy Metal. and then your mii sings :D
https://31.media.tumblr.com/fd3ac050...6v6ro2_400.gif
https://24.media.tumblr.com/fdaba070...6v6ro1_400.gif
https://31.media.tumblr.com/9e83e5c3...6v6ro3_400.gif
[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV5w8OFrm6U"]Yesssss[/URL]
I have a feeling the [URL="http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?37238-The-General-Pooter-Games-Thread&p=422240&viewfull=1#post422240"]first two[/URL] might already be in this thread
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ATTENTION FANS: history is our playground and the possibilities are endless. you have told us your opinions and we have heard you LOUD AND CLEAR, and this year, we at ubisoft bring you not one, not two, not even three but fOUR WHITE MEN WITH STUBBLE
https://31.media.tumblr.com/b91c209d...nIn1r0vh69.png
well if that's not an ad slogan that will win the masses over... :D
It's four times as much as the next game!
https://31.media.tumblr.com/af5cc0ee...sruo1_1280.png
And besides it's a game about a modern person using science to unlock genetic memories of their ancestors who were part of a secret warrior order of assassins fighting the pope's illuminati army of inquisitors or whatever - it'd just be unrealistic to have women or non-white people in a game set during the French revolution as women didn't have anything to do with it & poc hadn't been invented in Europe yet :rolleyes:
You want your cake and eat it!
I dunno, sometimes I think making people work in retail for a year would do society wonders.
I mean firstly it'd hopefully cut down on people being asshats to workers, but also show people that the world is a diverse place. Working a day in a supermarket I'd see men in turbans, women in hijabs and chadors, people in wheenchairs, old people, young people, deaf and blind people. Aside from the whole thing that representation is important it's just incredibly boring and dull from a design and storytelling point of view. Oh yay another grizzed white 30 something dude is angsty and out for revenge because women in his life were threatened/kidnapped/killed. YaaaaAAaAaaAyyyy.... (looking at you Watch Dogs)
Also Marie Antoinette almost certainly never said "let hem eat cake" (or any derivation thereof) as it was never cited by her contemporary critics and the first attribution of the line to her occurred about 50 years after her death. Besides which contemporary accounts portray her as a very charitable and compassionate person who actually acted when made aware of the poor people's reality so it is likely very out of character for her.
My subtle point was that in history there were women.
Jesus ****ing Christ Ubisoft.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotthammer
Ok so the four stubbly white guys might co-op rather than single player protagonists in AC:U, hope at least they include some ****ing female co-op options.
https://31.media.tumblr.com/c6682dfc...nhqgo1_500.jpg
Say what you will about EA whoever tweets for them has a sense of humour.
Seems legit given how long it takes to log on.
And the AC dudes I think one is the main dude but you can co-op and get the other three joining you? And they've said you can customise face and gear I think - but not race or gender (yet).
I really hope they let you customise gender, at least for the minor characters andp referably for the protagonist too. No excuses for companies continuing to churn out 90% white male brown stubble protagonists.
while I totally aggree with you on that, the trailer is (as usual) epic as all hell:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzCEdSKMkdU
Aisha Tyler, an absolute icon:
I play.
I've played since I was a little kid.
Since I begged my dad to buy me a Nintendo LCD Donkey Kong, Jr.
Since I blew through three weeks' allowance playing Defender at the laundromat.
Since you were a twinge in the left side of your daddy's underoos.
I've been a gamer since I made friends with a girl in the 5th grade just to get at her Atari.
Since I missed the bus playing Galaga after school.
Since I missed the start of Return of the Jedi playing Tempest in the theater lobby.
You think you know. You don't know.
I've been a gamer since before you could read.
Since I aced midterms after staying up all night playing Evil Tetris.
Since I became dorm champ at Leisure Suit Larry.
Since I double-wielded on Time Crisis 3 at Fuddrucker's.
I was a voice in not one, but two major video game titles.
I hosted the Reach Beta tutorial.
I was a Gears of War superfan panelist at ComicCon.
I hosted the Ubisoft presser at E3 2012.
I didn't do any of it for the money.
For most I got paid next to nothing, and for some, less than that.
I did it because I love video games.
Because I've dreamt since I was a kid of being in one of the games I love.
How many games have you done voices for?
How many cons have you repped at?
Your buddy's Unreal Tournament garage deathmatch doesn't count.
I go to E3 each year because I love video games.
Because new titles still get me high.
Because I still love getting swag.
Love wearing my gamer pride on my sleeve.
People ask me what console I play.
Mother****er, ALL of them.
I get invited to E3 because real gamers know I'm a gamer.
I don't do it for the money.
I have plenty of money.
I don't do it for the fame.
**** fame.
I do it because I love video games.
I don't give out my gamertag because I don't want a mess of noob jackholes lining up
to assassinate me on XBL.
I don't give a **** what you think about my gamerscore.
I don't play to prove a point.
I don't play to be the best.
I play because I love it.
I play.
I've been playing my whole life.
I'm not ashamed of it.
I don't apologize for it.
It's who I am.
To the core.
I'm a gamer.
So to all the haters out there who claim I don't play;
To the GAF dicks,
Gamespot trolls,
To every illiterate racist douchebag on Youtube:
Flame away. Go nuts.
Post every jackass comment your heart desires.
I'll still be playing when your mom's kicked you out of her basement
and you have to sell your old-*** console
and get a real job.
For now, I say to you respectfully,
and I mean this from the bottom of my heart,
GFYS.
Playstation Blog posted up some screenshots of Bloodborne - for those who don't know, it is made by the same team that did Demon's Souls and Dark Souls (the team that made Dark Souls 2 was composed mostly of junior developers) at From Software. It is the spiritual successor to Demon's Souls and can thus be considered a "Souls" game despite it looking to evolve the formula.
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5194/...580209d8_z.jpg
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5523/...aef94729_z.jpg
I look forward to seeing Bloodbornes white, brown haired stubbly protagonist.:p
Oh and Ubisoft responded to criticism about lack of female characters by saying they were cut because they would 'double the resources' needed which is not only bull**** is is misogynist because they would never consider cutting male characters to include female characters. Women are optional and expendable, men are integral. It is the ****ing definition of misogyny and trying to hide it behind busciness decisions is just cowardly. You have the resources to produce four white guys and a massive supportive cast but you can't, you know, re-use ****ign animations from Assassins Creed Liberation and hire a female voice actor? We are expected to believe that Volition can afford 3-4 female voice actors and Bioware can have two female voice actors (in DAI) and motion capture etc. but Ubisoft can't? Bull****.
Edit: Anyone else disappointed that all we saw of Star Wars Battlefront was Endor and Hoth? Like we haven't thought Endor and Hoth a zillion times before in various games? Meh.
Bull**** indeed... sigh...Quote:
Originally Posted by eldargal
well those are the most iconic battles, so it kinda makes sense to get those presentable first... and they do look neatQuote:
Originally Posted by eldargal
Yeah it isn't so much that I don't want them it's that I'd rather see something new first.
Who said they were joking?Quote:
Originally Posted by eldargal
Also
http://i61.tinypic.com/2cftw00.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldargal
While this is a sad response it holds some truth. Its not all as easy as some people would like to think.
No, they would never consider cutting white male characters in favor of anything else. Thats actually a business decision. Their fanbase is mostly white males. If this hard fact changes, their business decision will change. But dont expect them to "donate" any money changing their customer base. If women would make a significant number of their cutomers you could be sure as hell that they would include female characters. Data today is quite good as programs like steam are huge data collectors.
4 white guys are super easy to do. Everything is already done and you just change the skin a bit and get maybe additional voiceactors (and not even this is a "must" as a single voicactor can do multiple voices).
You cant "just use the animations form another game" as they are not compatible in 99% of cases. It might not be obvious but its like saying "you can just take the animations from Streetfighter and put them into Mortal Kombat. Engine is different, coding is different, nearly everything is different.
So you just have to build it completely new. So yes, this would exactly double the cost of the white male. Maybe the can afford that but most likely they dont want to as it would cut their profits. If they would believe otherwise they would change it. Its really all about the money and not some conspiracy to subjugate women through video games. If their customer base would be largely made of black lesbian women you can be sure as hell that their main characters would resemble black lesbian women.
Someone's comments on ubisoft's weaksauce reasoning:
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I was going to buy far cry 4 but that is too much financial effort on my part you understand. Unfortunate reality of video game purchases.
Lol, nice.
To answer your earlier question eldargal, you get to pick whether your character is male or female in Bloodborne. From [URL="http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=835121&page=21"]Neogaf[/URL];
It turns out there are demo kiosks for Bloodborne at E3 and pretty much all the reception has been overwhelmingly positive. I'm not sure I like this [URL="http://www.videogamer.com/ps4/bloodborne/preview-3665.html"]article[/URL] title though as there's no way the game can live up to it surely;Quote:
* No, Bloodborne will not leave Sony systems and is not coming to a Sony system other than the PS4 in the near future.
* Yes, it is an action RPG and not a pure action game.
* No, there is no fixed protagonist, male or female. You can create and customize your character like in previous games.
* Yes, there are other weapons besides the cleave-saw and the shotgun. In fact, marketing mentioned guns and cleave-saws plural.
* No, this is not Devil May Cry or a button masher. The gameplay is likened to Souls without a shield or magic and with guns that stagger foes.
* Yes, this is an interconnected world and there is no hub. Thank God.
Sounds like this game will validate my purchase of a PS4 alone, an exclusive Souls game is to die for (haha!).Quote:
Bloodborne is Dark Souls meets Resident Evil 4
Well that is good news.:) LEARN FROM THIS UBISOFT!:p
On the Ubisoft thing, I find it incredibly difficult to believe they couldn't put at least one female character in. Two males and two females would have been ideal, but not even one female? Even the business argument posted above fails to cover that a significantly higher proportion of gamers nowadays are female, and heck, even most males will be wondering why there are no females among the four main characters.
It's a nonsense argument. Having a protagonist costs money, it doesn't cost more money having a female protagonist unless somehow you believe male protagonists spring form the ground fully coded, animated and voiced. I mean yes youl can re-use the mocap and animations and stuff for other male characters but you can do that for women characters too. The issue here is they feel it is a higher priority to give people another stubbly white guy indistinguishable from most other stubbly white protagonists rather than use a woman to tell a story.
That's perhaps the only thing I didn't like about Watch Dogs, Aiden Pearce was do darn generic with his only defining feature being a gravelly voice. I liked his family and the rest of the supporting cast but Aiden himself was really bland.
Sure you can do that. But it looks ****. It looks totally half assed and the next issue would be "ubisoft doesnt even devote ressources in creating female characters, they just reskinned the male characters"Quote:
Originally Posted by eldargal
Vote with your wallets. I didnt buy a single Ubisoft game after their desastrous DRM and I still live well without their games.
Personally games without a character generator of some sorts are a big minus in my book. As I really hate the generic short hair wannabe gangster male look. Give me long hair and some make up already dammit...
I think what eldargal meant is that they can re-use the mo-cap they have done with women before, i.e. the actress that played the female assassin in Assassins Creed: Liberation (I forget her name, I barely remember any characters in these games lol).
Aveline. And my point was if they can't reuse mocap for women the ycan't reuse it for men, either. Which means mo-capping needs to be done, so why not make it a woman? Every game since Brotherhood has had female assassins in the background who were animated and one assumes mocapped, but it is too much effort for a protagonist? It is no kind of excuse, it is just a cover for misogyny. Bioware had fully voiced male and female protagonists for ME1-3 and ME3 sold around 4-5 million copies in total.Volition has managed to have 3 separate voice actresses for SR2-4, each game selling around 3-4million copies.. ACIV sold 10 million copies and we are supposed to believe that Ubisoft couldn't afford to allocate the resources to create a female protagonist? Don't make me laugh. These are flimsy excuses meant to cover the companies disregard for women, nothing more.
Honestly dont know if the could do it. Maybe ist a coding thing, maybe even a license thing, maybe something completely different. I really dont want to defend them but the more than common "they could easily just do Y and they dont do it because they hate X" spreads everywhere. Doesnt matter where you work there are always people who will tell you that "you can easily do that!" when in reallity you cant.
In this game first of all you want to create a finished game you can sell (here you can blame them that the story is about a white male but that seems to be their target audience).
If you have that you can devote your ressources to features.
And yes having a customizeable protagonist or even a female equivalent in a story originally written for a white male protagonist is a feature here. You dont need that for a finished product.
If you dont have any more time or ressources you cut out features first (sorry no multiplayer for example)
If you still have no more time and ressources you cut game content (KOTOR 2 for example where entire levels and even the ending where cut out)
Most people have a hard time to imagine what amount of work, time and money go into the (perceived) simplest things in a game.
TONS of concept art for characters. Meetings to approve/expand on some of the concept arts. Another ton of artwork for the choosen concepts -> Here we did not even program a single piece of code or just think about actual graphics... we are still at concept stage! This can easily take weeks of the graphic department just for a single ingame character.
It all sounds incredibly easy as customer while in reality its tons of work and money. These are just business calculations. As it the choice of the protagonist. At the end of the day they want to sell their product.
If they cant sell their product, their target audience will shift (or they just go bankrupt as there are just a very few studios that can recover from an absolute disaster).
Sorry but this is just nonsense. We can expect that ubisoft could afford it. Point taken. But also we can say that they do not want to cut their profit by implementing a "feature" that wont (in their mind) raise their income significantly.Quote:
Aveline. And my point was if they can't reuse mocap for women the ycan't reuse it for men, either. Which means mo-capping needs to be done, so why not make it a woman? Every game since Brotherhood has had female assassins in the background who were animated and one assumes mocapped, but it is too much effort for a protagonist? It is no kind of excuse, it is just a cover for misogyny. Bioware had fully voiced male and female protagonists for ME1-3 and ME3 sold around 4-5 million copies in total.Volition has managed to have 3 separate voice actresses for SR2-4, each game selling around 3-4million copies.. ACIV sold 10 million copies and we are supposed to believe that Ubisoft couldn't afford to allocate the resources to create a female protagonist? Don't make me laugh. These are flimsy excuses meant to cover the companies disregard for women, nothing more.
Just because I could afford something that does not mean I have to afford it.
If you really think that a gaming company just hates women and doesnt want their money at all then there is something wrong with their business plan. And im quite sure there was a cost-benefit analysis before they decided to drop it.
Of course they could do it, if they wanted to. We know that because other games do it. Smaller AAA developers with lower sales than Ubisoft and AC. But they have to want to. Ubisoft don't, so they won't. The reason they don't want to is because they are a male dominated company in a male dominated industry in a male dominated culture. They don't give a **** about telling womens stories because they aren't viewed as important.
The issue is that the white male gamer is not even a majority of their demographic. 47% of gamers are women, over 40% of console gamers are women and a good portion of the male demographic is not white.
The misogyny comes in viewing a female character as an optional feature. The story for Unity didn't spring out of the ground fully formed, nor was it handed down from on high. People wrote it. Those people made choices about the focus, who the protagonist should be etc. They view male as a default so the protagonist becomes male, to do something else is deemed an extra and requiring of extra effort which is untrue. A protagonist requires effort, the gender is irrelevant.
Co-op is included, with four Whitey McStubbly characters to choose from.
It is not about underestimating the amount of effort or resources involved, it is about criticising the choices of how those resources are allocated. Ubisoft clearly do not think those resources deserve to be allocated towards creating female protagonists, that is sexist. It is as simple as that. The resources ivolved in creating a protagonist are the same regardless of its gender. They chose to make it male because they are male in a male dominated company in a male dominated industry catering to a demographic that is actually extremely diverse. This is not sustainable, but while it lasts it is extremely offensive and upsetting.
No, it is not nonsense. They could have had a female protagonist. This isn't a ****ing feature, it is a choice. They chose not too because they would rather do what 90% of games do and cater to a small percentage of the demographic that is like them, white men. No on at Ubisoft is sitting there thinking 'grr I hate wimmins' they simply don't care about women and telling their stories. Because women are devalued, their stories are not worth telling and using a woman to tell a story is some kind of optional extra rather than a legitimate option in their minds.
Actually, the amount of women playing games is even higher (52%) as you can see here
[url]http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/esa_ef_2014.pdf[/url]
BUT (and this is an important "but")
This includes ALL games. And we also have data that there are generes and even playstyles that are prefered by women (statisticly speaking).
"Only" 30% are in action games and that in an evironment where action games just make up a very tiny fraction (45% of games are non social/mobile games like farmville or angrybirds and 30% of that are action games).
So yes. The company makes a choice based on the demographic of "their" gamers. And they happen to be male of a major part.
Bioware may have a complete different demographic playerbase and thus they cater to them.
[URL="http://www.gamespot.com/articles/ubisoft-boss-not-happy-with-the-assumption-that-gamers-only-want-chainsaws-and-girls-in-bikinis/1100-6418995/"]The (woman) head of Ubisoft Toronto, sadly ironic[/URL]. Also according to that article AC has sold 76 million copies in total now (I,II,Brotherhood, Revelations,III, Liberation,IV) so I scoff at the notion they couldn't afford a few days work from a handful of animators, some textures, a voice actor and a bit more mocap.Quote:
"I don't like the assumption that all people who play games want big chainsaws and women in bikinis. It's like, really? Not all gamers are teenage boys, and even teenage boys want more than that," Raymond said.
The interviewer said that protagonists of many popular video games often are "husky voiced, emotionless *******[s]," and Raymond seemed to agree.
"It's got to change, right?" she said, pointing out that even traditional action movies have evolved to a point where their main characters are more narratively complex.
that argument only works if you assume their regular player base (which I am a part of, including the stubble :)) will like the game more because the protagonist is male rather than female - i.e. because they get "generic white male stubble main character" number X rather than someone interesting, like in Freedom Cry and Liberation. And that I do find unlikely to work out in favor of them - sure they might lose out on a few customers, but I'd imagine they'd gain more than that from people (and not even necessarily girls...) like EG...Quote:
Originally Posted by Charon
[URL="http://www.gamespot.com/articles/once-an-underperformer-tomb-raider-nearing-6-million-in-sales/1100-6418162/"]Female led Tomb Raider reboot just reached the 6mil sales mark, exceeding estimates[/URL]. But you know, female protagonists cost more and boys don't buy them or something?
Sadly it doesnt work that way. Its no question of "do they like the generic white male stubble more than an interesting character?", the real question is "do they like the generic male white stubble ENOUGH that we dont have to spend additional efford and ressources on creating an interesting character?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrendian
And as long as the answer the this question is "yes", it wont change.
Never said that. I said an ADDITIONAL protagonist costs more (and how many we do have in Tomb Raider?). I also never said "boys dont buy it". So please keep it civil.Quote:
Female led Tomb Raider reboot just reached the 6mil sales mark, exceeding estimates. But you know, female protagonists cost more and boys don't buy them or something?
Also Tomb Raider is a successful franchise and already was before the reboot. I played it too, its a solid game (apart from a few hickups) but I really dont care what gender the main character has as long as the game/story is good.
In DA2 you could choose your gender freely and the game was still ****. Thats why im not waiting for DA3. I also enjoyed ME1 and 2 but didnt like ME3.