View Full Version : Chaplians a go-go!
So I was screwing around with the Bloos Angels codex and came up with a new super unit. Here it is.
1 Librarian 135 pt
- Bike
- MIght of Heroes, Sanguine sword (Possibly fear the darkenss)
1 Reclusiarch 180 pt
- Bike
- INfernus pistol
1 Chaplain 150 pt
- Bike
- INfernus Pistol
1 Chaplain 150 pt
- BIke
- Combi Melta
1 Sanguinary priest 100 pt
- Bike
- Power weapon.
All said it is (on the charge) 21+D3: S5, I5 attacks with T 4(5), 3+, 4++, FNP. and litinies of hate
They can seperate at will when big nasty templates present themselves and all such stuff
Thoughts?
Duke
Tynskel
09-05-2010, 08:37 AM
don't forget to add the bike squad!
Reminds me of the Captain + Librarian (for vortex) + command squad on bikes. Storm Shields, n' Melta guns. (or regular bike squad to make the unit claiming.)
I was thinking of attaching it to a scout bike squad, but it wouldn't make it scoring.
I will actually try this unit out a bit, it could work if you build a list around it.
If it does work, I'm totally going to mount them on.... Wait for it.......... GIANT BATS!!! Lol
Duke
Old_Paladin
09-05-2010, 08:54 AM
Wouldn't Dropping the bikes and putting them in a death company squad with rhino be pretty good too.
How about
2x Librarians
2 Elite Chaplains
1 Priest
5 Death Comp (pistols and power weapons are good, maybe a fist/hammer or two)
Rhino
or if you really have the points, add more death company and put them all in a Crusader.
All the characters will get re-rolls to hit on the charge and FNP.
Death comp now get re-rolls to hit and to wound, and already had FNP.
If they take the Land Raider, it is an assault vehicle.
Possibly, how many points is that?
Another incarnation had them with jump packs and astorath in a storm raven
Duke
Old_Paladin
09-05-2010, 09:13 AM
Possibly, how many points is that?
Not sure...
100 each for the Libs, Chaps and the priest.
100 points for 5 death comp, maybe 75ish points for some gear, 40 (I think) for a fast rhino.
so probably 700+ points in the end; over 1000 if you take the Land Raider path.
That's almost point for point the same cost as your unit.
Sir Biscuit
09-05-2010, 11:35 AM
That unit is seven hundred and fifteen points.
That's almost two full terminator squads. Are you sure this is a super unit and not a super waste of points?
Old_Paladin
09-05-2010, 11:58 AM
That unit is seven hundred and fifteen points.
That's almost two full terminator squads. Are you sure this is a super unit and not a super waste of points?
Against normal termies (ie. fists and bolters, or lightning claws)?
His hero unit moves a lot faster, can take a lot of punishment (tougher, can often take two saving throws per wound with wound allocation), can have alright shooting and can hit hard and fast in melee.
Compaired to fifteen TH/SS termies... no. Those termies are better (but TH/SS's are also undercosted by around 30 points each).
Someone hits this with a significantly powerful template weapon and you're haemmoraging points. I would definitely be attaching them to an assault squad for the cheap rhino, or something along those lines. But yeah, kudos - it's something original :)
In my blood angels lists I tend to run assault squads in rhinos with sanguinary priests and a bolter death company in a rhino with a reclusiarch. It's obvious stuff but it's been pretty effective, and it strikes me as cost-effective to boot.
Someone hits this with a significantly powerful template weapon and you're haemmoraging points...
One of the beauties of this unit is that I don't have to be a unit until I want to. If you have a significantly strong template I just spread out... Have fun shooting that one template at one guy.
I ran the numbers and on the charge I will kill 9.48 terminators a turn. (Mathhammer app on Iphone, WS 5, S 5, 24 attacks reroll hits against ws 4, T 4, 5++ save.)
Against Thunder hammer terminators
I kill 4.74 on the charge. (same assumptions, but a 3++)
The remaining terminator in the squad will cause:
.625 wounds... Which will insta kill.
If I shoot the termies prior to charging.
I kill 1.5 more regular terminators
I kill .74 more TH/SS terminators
If you are in a Landraider, I:
Wrecked or exploded: 83% of the time.
So, assuming I can blow up the Land Raider prior to my assault and shooting I will kill (including assault and shooting):
10+ regular termiantors
5+ TH/SS terminators.
Then I get to rinse and repeat.
(PS: I know math-hammer is not the be all of unit strength, just trying to show how a theory would work out... I would love to see people play test this unit and see how it works for them and then report it to me.)
Duke
Tynskel
09-05-2010, 05:15 PM
That unit is seven hundred and fifteen points.
That's almost two full terminator squads. Are you sure this is a super unit and not a super waste of points?
Hahahahahah!
One of the beauties of this unit is that I don't have to be a unit until I want to. If you have a significantly strong template I just spread out... Have fun shooting that one template at one guy.
That's all well and good, but at some stage you're going to group them up to start rolling on fools, and that's when you're vulnerable. It's a LOT of points for so few models... A lot a lot, and it could vanish in the blink of an eye like few other ways of spending that many points can. If we're being objective about it, that's the key drawback, and it exists.
You're a step ahead of me anyway, because I didn't even realise you could do this with independent characters. Makes me think.
That's all well and good, but at some stage you're going to group them up to start rolling on fools, and that's when you're vulnerable. It's a LOT of points for so few models... A lot a lot, and it could vanish in the blink of an eye like few other ways of spending that many points can. If we're being objective about it, that's the key drawback, and it exists.
You're a step ahead of me anyway, because I didn't even realise you could do this with independent characters. Makes me think.
True, I know that there are weaknesses that could be exploited, But I think the strengths are great. I haven't thought of it until now, but IIRC, they could split off and join foot infantry, making each other unit in the army pack more of a punch, while not lowering the overall ability of the main unit.
I really think that this is one of those units that we would have to playtest...
In comparion, my friend ran (in a recent tournie): 6 TH/SS termies, Lysander and a Librarian in a LR Crusader... That isn't cheaper than my unit (Somewhere around 750 I think(
My other friend constantly runs: 5 TH/SS termies, Vulkan, librarian in a LR redemmer and that is about 700+ as well.
I don't think 700 pts is "a waste," the only question is if it is effective... I can't wait to playtest this unit!
Duke
Tynskel
09-05-2010, 07:47 PM
Personally, why not have a 'full command' in the squad:
Captain
Librarian
Chaplain
Sanguinary Priest
Bike Squad
Bike Captains are usually nothing to sniffle at.
Or another route:
Captain
Librarian
Chaplain
Honor Guard-- Give em Storm Shields
Jump Packs
Now you have a hard unit that flies, and is pretty well defended-- 3+ saves with FNP, or lots of 3++.
175 Captain Raphael
Captain, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield, Jump Pack
140 Librarian Romeo
Librarian, Infernus Pistol, Jump Pack, Unleashed Rage, Might of Heros
140 Chaplain Bellerophon
Chaplain, Infernus Pistol, Jump Pack
325 Honor Guard Adanicio
Jump Packs, 4 Storm Shields, 2 Meltaguns, 2 Lightning Claws, Chapter Banner
Total: 780
@Tynskel: I had made almost that exact same unit before! except with less melta, and another version with Dante... All in all the only reason I went with the bikes is cause I was trying to screw around with "things we don't think of."
I really like jump packs more than bikes, and I think that unit is worth trying, and IMHO it will look way! better than bikes (I hate how bikes look). Especially with the way I do my Blood Angel Storm Shields.
Duke
Tynskel
09-05-2010, 10:28 PM
I was thinking Dante would be a good swap too. At that point, though, I would give the Libby Sanguinary Sword. Ya never know when you need a beat stick!
Right, I wouldn't use unleash rage especially if you already have a Chappie...
Sanguine sword and Might of Heroes.
Duke
Tynskel
09-05-2010, 11:07 PM
I was just thinking the Unleashed Rage was a back up (in case chappy died!)/ use in opponent's turn power.
Tynskel
09-06-2010, 08:19 AM
The cool thing about the BA Codex (and the Space Wolves) is that you can take a full command squad, like you could in 4th Edition. You can sorta do it in the SM codex (instead of one of the heros, you can take a techmarine).
Blood Angels has a unique selection of wargear and heros, that there are some pretty fantastic combinations:
Tycho
Corbulo
Librarian
Chaplain
8 Sternguard
In a Stormraven/Redeemer ( or ten Sternguard in a Crusader, or 6 Sternguard in a Drop Pod/Rhino/Land Raider)
Captain w/ Lightning Claws
Chaplain w/ Combi-Plasma
Libby w/Storm Shield
Sanguinary Priest
Terminators!
Super Redonkulous:
10 Vanguard with Storm Shields 70% with Lightning Claws, 3 with Infernus Pistols
Dante!
Libby w/ Infernus Pistol, Sanguine Sword, Might of Heros
Chaplain w/ Infernus Pistol
Sanguinary Priest w/ Lightning Claw Infernus Pistol
All with Jump Packs
(this one is over 1000 points...)
I suppose one thing to consider in the comparison between Named Character, TH/SS termies and LRC versus this super unit is that said Named Character usually brings an ability to the table that affects the army as a whole in a meaningful way, aside from being good at killing things. The BA 'dex is a bit of a slouch on that front, as is your (admittedly, nice and I'm *not* trying to suggest I don't like it a lot) unit. So yeah, worth considering in the comparison, although I don't know enough about the current vanilla marine codex to be more specific.
FYI, I built the bike unit (Need a bike for the priest though.) Go over to my thread "Dukes Blood Angels," in the painting and modeling forum... And yes, I am too lazy to make it a link!
Duke
I suppose one thing to consider in the comparison between Named Character, TH/SS termies and LRC versus this super unit is that said Named Character usually brings an ability to the table that affects the army as a whole in a meaningful way, aside from being good at killing things. The BA 'dex is a bit of a slouch on that front, as is your (admittedly, nice and I'm *not* trying to suggest I don't like it a lot) unit. So yeah, worth considering in the comparison, although I don't know enough about the current vanilla marine codex to be more specific.
Are you trying to suggest you don't like my unit!? Jk,lol...
Seriously though you have a point... I don't twin link certain weapons and I don't up armor a piece of terrain. The force multiplication only comes in when you consider the previously covered "split off and join another unit" ability. I also still don't like that they are on bikes... Oh how I distaste bikes.
Duke
The force multiplication you're offering isn't to be sniffed at either. I don't leave home without a sanguinary priest or two up my sleeve, and a chaplain is a game changer with an ordinary squad, *let alone* a death company. I tend to build my sub-1500 BA lists around these stalwarts of the chapter.
What I wouldn't give for a baal predator or two... unfortunately (fortunately?) my wife and I are starting fantasy, so the tank fund has become the fantasy fund for the foreseeable.
Baal preds are awesome! Especially when you have first turn... Scout, move shoot! I no longer fear leaf blower at all.
Duke
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