Shopping for Heavy Support options: Blood Angels

[Petite Francois]

Hello Bell of Lost Souls!

Can you please help me?

I have in my collection or on order the following minis for my fledgling Blood Angels army:

1 Assault Squad w/ Jump Pack(10 Marines)
4 Standard Tactical Squads (Missile Launcher and Flamer)

Now, I want to add something to my army. I am using the Blood Angels codex for 'Knights of Blood' and it seems to me I need some heavy weapons. If you had roughly $100 to spend USA, what would you buy for this army? Can't decide, there are tanks, dreadnoughts, Devastators...how to choose?

Thank you in advance for your help!
--- Frankie

[Connjurus]

Definitely don't buy the boxed set of Devastators, since it only gives you one of each of the weapons - personally, I'd go for a vindicator. The ability to move 12" and lob a 5" S:10 AP:2 blast is pretty nice. However, if you're dead-set on going for Devastators, buy two missile launchers and two lascannons - I've never been a fan of "massing" one type of heavy weapon in my Dev/Havoc squads, and find that mixes like the one I just recommended are very effective, as it lets you confront multiple threats. For the one I just listed, it's good against ALL of the threats you'll face on the board, up to AND including AV:14 vehicles.

For the Blood Angels, save the Dreadnoughts for a Furioso in your elite choice. ;)

[Connjurus]

Also, if you plan on actually building on this army, I'd recommend phasing out that Tactical squad for an Assault squad - in the BA codex there's really no reason to have one.

Also, don't forget your HQ! Any idea of any kind of theme you're trying to run? In lower point games, don't be tempted by the fancy Reclusiarchs, and the Captains really aren't that good - they don't even have the Red Thirst! I'd go with a Librarian with a jump pack. :)

Some other recommendations for the future are:
1-3 Sanguinary Priests
Astorath the Grim (seriously, get this guy. He's amazing.)
An assault terminator squad.
A Storm Raven when they come out.
MORE ASSAULT MARINES!
Oh, and Death Company. They're great for soaking up fire.

[Legoklods]

well how about getting an HQ choice first...?:rolleyes:
after that I would say rhinos for your tactic-squads...

AND THEN heavy support...
In my experience a marine player will never regret buying a vindicator, and since yours is fast, it makes even more sense.
The reason why I recomende the vindicator is that it's versetile, as it can destroy heavy infantry and tanks alike. only thing it wont be "da bomb" against is hordes of light infantry - such as boyz, gaunts, and guardsmen. though it will ofcause still work just fine against such light targets.

[Legoklods]

Also, if you plan on actually building on this army, I'd recommend phasing out that Tactical squad for an Assault squad - in the BA codex there's really no reason to have one.

Agreed!

[Duncndisorderly]

I've gone in order of personal preference here but the decision is always best made by yourself as you will know what kinda tactics your gonna use, but for me:
1. Vindicator, awesome fire power and fast = many kills for you.

2. Pts wise standard Dreadnoughts are cheap as chips and provide good Hvy support and kick some in assault.

3. I disagree that a devastator box isnt a good purchase, throw the unit in a Rhino and Bobs your uncle or depending on the mission type "set them up where your gonna use em from"

4. Death Company, yes I know its not a Hvy Support but for the damage they inflict they may aswell be, either give em jump packs (my personal fave) or use a Rhino, either way get them in fast to where you want impact.

[Connjurus]

3. I disagree that a devastator box isnt a good purchase, throw the unit in a Rhino and Bobs your uncle or depending on the mission type "set them up where your gonna use em from"


The reason I say it's not a good buy is because it gives you one of each heavy weapon...I'd say it's better to buy the heavy weapons individually.

[AbusePuppy]

Vindicators are pretty okay in BA and can do a couple different things.

Devastators are excellent. You get two each of two weapons and one each of two others... I wanna say it's MM and Las you get two of? Pretty sure it's not Missile. Anyways, they're a fine choice and not as laughable overpriced as SM ones. Remember that you don't have to take all four heavy weapons, if you're looking to save some points.

Stormravens are probably a bit too much work and don't fit your army as well.

Dakka (Autocannon/HBolter) and AuoLas (AC/LC) Predators are both quite usable.

Rifleman Dreads (2 TL AC) are also very good against transports.

To be honest, your army sounds rather odd- you have a bunch of long-range shooting, which is not something that BA excel at, as they're a very aggressive army. Tactical Marines are just fine in BA (ignore the haters), but it doesn't seem you're taking advantage of their strengths.

[Connjurus]

Devastators are excellent. You get two each of two weapons and one each of two others... I wanna say it's MM and Las you get two of? Pretty sure it's not Missile.

Actually, just read up on it, you Loyalists are lucky. :/ Not only are your Heavy Weapon guys plastic, but they come with:
- two plasma cannons, two heavy bolters, two lascannons
- one multi-melta, one missile launcher

Lucky *******s. :/

[Duncndisorderly]

The reason I say it's not a good buy is because it gives you one of each heavy weapon...I'd say it's better to buy the heavy weapons individually.


Apologies, I mis read and agree :o

[Wolfshade]

Don't over look the humble predator, in the BA codex with it being fast enables it to move and fire very effectively at not too great a points.
Though, for some reason I think of knights of blood and I think of dreadnoughts :) always a good HS choice and can be customised to fulfil a number of roles.

[Petite Francois]

Thank you everyone! This was just the kind of advice I was needing, I appreciate it! I will certainly buy at least one Vinidicator today. Thank you also for the info on the Devastators.

I was wondering about the tactical squads for Blood Angels, I know that jump pack armies heavy on assault are popular. I got this great deal on Ebay though, only $10 per tac squad, but maybe I should have just sunk the money into another 5 man assault squad or a Death Company box set. Sounds like I should phase out the tac squads when I can later.

Anyway, thanks again! This is a great community, very helpful!
--- Be well, be blessed!
----- Frankie

P.S. Oh yeah, HQ! I totally forgot...! Doh!

[Wolfshade]

Oh, don't forget that you could combine all your heavy weapons from the tactical squads into a dev squad with sarge and 5 normal maries. Missiles are versatile with the frag/krak choice :)

[Sir Biscuit]

It's actually not a bad idea to include a tac squad with an assault based list, you do need SOMETHING to sit on your home objective in objective based games, and putting an assault squad there is a bit of a waste. A tactical squad can provide covering fire from a surprisingly long distance.

I'm assuming from your list construction that you would like to create a very in-your-face fast attack army that puts a lot of marines, chainswords, and close range bolt shots into the opponent. That's a great way to run BA, and you've got a few HS choices to match.

You have three REAL options for heavy support:
1.) Vindicators, though be careful with massing these as they are far more expensive than the loyalist ones and thus more susceptible to counter-units. Vindicators are always useful, but I think you might look at other units given your list, as what will REALLY help is the ability to bust transports and kill monstrous creatures.
Vindicators excel at:
Killing mass infantry.
Killing elite infantry.
They are effective against everything else, but not great.

2.) Predators. These are best with the default autocannon turret and two lascannon sponsons. Because they're fast, you can move 6" and still fire all your weapons, making them potent anti-tank weapons.
Predators excel at:
Killing transports. (Worse than devastators.)
Killing tanks.
Murdering monstrous creatures. (Worse than devastators.)
Hurting elite infantry. (Worse than vindicator)

Also, your cheapest option.

3.) Devastators. Believe it or not, blood angels have reasonably priced devs. The best way to run them is like this:
6 Marines
+4 Missile Launchers
Take 2 squads
The extra body in there is important, you will be shocked at the protection it provides against long-range fire. (And also makes them less susceptible to forced moral tests from shooting losses.) Missile launchers are your best option, if you feel you need the higher-strength lascannon shots there are better platforms. (IE the predator)
Devastators excel at:
Sweeping up light infantry.
Killing transports.
Hurting tanks. (worse than predator)
Murdering monstrous creatures.

So the question is which do you take? It really depends on your list. Let's break it down again:

1.) Vindicators are best against infantry, and are best in lists that need help quickly blasting away elite squads. They're best in lists that need the front line help and disruption their blasts provide. Basically, elite heavy lists (lots of furiosos and terminators or dante and guard) and shooting lists love to have the vindicator around.

2.) Predators are best in hybrid (IE some armor, some jump packs) lists where you need to crack open tanks, and you need their mobile long range to help control the opponent. No one likes to open up their side armor to these bad boys, so you can use that to throw off the enemies deployment and movements. In hybrid lists, they tend to be more survivable than in jump lists as you have more armor on the table and you can use that to keep them protected.

3.) Devastators are actually best in jump lists, as they are by far your most resilient option. 6 marines in cover is something very few armies can dislodge at long range, and 0 can kill them off first turn. They can stay alive until they jumpers hit the table, and are effective against all the things you need them to be: monstrous creatures, dreadnoughts, and transports. They're not good in armored lists though, as your own tanks will end up blocking LOS!

It sounds like you want to run a hybrid list, judging by the models you currently own. You should absolutely pick up more assault squads, but I think you might find that 2x tactical (with a plasma cannon and meltagun) and 2 or 3x assault marines work very well together. In a list like this preds are your best choice. That's not to say the others are bad, as they're still good choices overall, they're just not as effective as they could be.

Do you need help picking an HQ?

[fuzzbuket]

for a small bA army (im rubbish with USD i <3 GBP)

2 assault squads (5 man or 10man)

10 atcs because if you try to hold middle OBjectives you need support either scouts or tacs

[Midge913]

The vindicator will get you alot of bang for your buck, but I find that they become the target of massed fire power pretty quickly.

Devastator Squad provide for a lot of flexibility. If you know what you are going to be up against before you play you can tool them up for whatever you need (horde killing or mech hunting). If not you can round the squad out pretty easily to help you deal with whatever happens to be on the other side of the table.

Personally I am also a fan of the normal predators. The lascannon kind becomes kinda pricey, but taking the auto cannon variety with heavy bolter sponsons can provide a lot of fire power against infantry, and isn't to shabby at popping open troop transports.

As far as dreds go, I haven't ever had much luck with them. I find that they manage to get themselves blown up before the can do much... That being said, I hate it when I am facing them because I can never manage to kill the other guys.

[lowdog]

I think Rifleman Dreds are only 120 for BA, as opposed to 125 for Space Furries (and I presume the same for Codex Marines).

With all the deep-striking melta BA can put together I think you could run a very effective armorless army. Attack Bikes and Vanguards for FA and Devs for HS, then suddenly you have an opponent paying a premium for anti-armor that isn't as effective against your hordes of models.

[Duke]

You should get a predator. Autocannon/ lascqnnon sponsons is great!

You should then have enough left over to get a librarian blister (I think)

Duke

[lobster-overlord]

Don't worry about the extra Tac Squads. Repurpose those models into the other halves of the devastators, or even use them as your Death Company (if you trick them out with bolters).

John M.